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Space: The Final Frontier

For anyone interested, the Science channel is re-airing the first two episodes of their Alien Encounters series right now. It's an interesting take on how we would react and what the implications would be. It got me thinking that I just don't think it will ever happen. If I had a choice for anything to happen in my life it would be to be around when we make first contact. But I don't even think my great great great great great grand kids will be around. The cosmos is just too big and we are just too far from one another. I like to ponder the idea that maybe other beings have met each other while we still sit here in silence, but I'm not even sure the most advanced race out there has found anyone yet. I just feel that if life was meant to find other life, then either the universe would be much MUCH smaller, or maybe there would be no speed limits. But because of these limits, life may always think its alone. Maybe that's the way its supposed to be. I just don't know why.


It is not inconceivable to postulate that a civilization millions of years more evolved than us would understand physics and the warping of space/time in ways that we can not even begin to imagine. Who can say that they have not found ways to warp through the fabric of the cosmos. And sure we don't think speed greater than light is possible, but we've not been around for long; who can say they have not found a way around the infinite mass problem when it comes to breaking the speed of light? You could also say that an advanced species would not interfere with species still young in their evolution. Perhaps we all evolve alone and without interference, and then arrive to some time of galactic/universal community. Also, if a species is so far ahead of us, what real reason do they have to visit? How often do you run off into the woods and lift over rocks to study worms in the ground?
 
It is not inconceivable to postulate that a civilization millions of years more evolved than us would understand physics and the warping of space/time in ways that we can not even begin to imagine. Who can say that they have not found ways to warp through the fabric of the cosmos. And sure we don't think speed greater than light is possible, but we've not been around for long; who can say they have not found a way around the infinite mass problem when it comes to breaking the speed of light? You could also say that an advanced species would not interfere with species still young in their evolution. Perhaps we all evolve alone and without interference, and then arrive to some time of galactic/universal community. Also, if a species is so far ahead of us, what real reason do they have to visit? How often do you run off into the woods and lift over rocks to study worms in the ground?

Whatthehellidonteven...

Im not sure why, but your responses always seem to convey a feeling of trying to disprove others personal beliefs and speculations, or trying to argue against them. I am not making claims to any facts. I realize all of that is theoretically possible. I was stating that I personally think it hasn't and doesn't happen. As much as I'd love for it to happen, I think the cosmos may prevent life from trying to travel too far. The cosmos might not allow the warping of time and space. I don't think the reason we haven't been visited is that they don't have interest in "running in to the woods to find worms"; but because they simply can't get to us. Even if they could get to us, us being "worms" to them really has no bearing on if they would visit. Humans run off and study far less intelligent species in random places all the fucking time. That argument is old and tired. And it's quite a stretch to assume that all intelligent civilizations capable of interstellar/intergalactic travel would not bother us due to some universal code of honor involving the avoidance of "dumb" civilizations. There would be far too many civilizations out there for all of them to have met each other and share ideas. If they could reach us, some would want to, others might think its a waste of time. I just don't see anyone trying to reach anybody with friendly intent and greetings. Lastly, given what we have seen with human life and how we treat each other, if the cosmos did allow for species to cross paths, then there would be infinite war and conflict, not a happy "universal community"
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
come on gaf! Where's the the new pic ?

Here!

The Blue Marble 2012 :

6760135001_58b1c5c5f0_b.jpg


8kx8k

Breathtaking.

Why does it look like a desert?
 
Whatthehellidonteven...

Im not sure why, but your responses always seem to convey a feeling of trying to disprove others personal beliefs and speculations, or trying to argue against them. I am not making claims to any facts. I realize all of that is theoretically possible. I was stating that I personally think it hasn't and doesn't happen. As much as I'd love for it to happen, I think the cosmos may prevent life from trying to travel too far. The cosmos might not allow the warping of time and space. I don't think the reason we haven't been visited is that they don't have interest in "running in to the woods to find worms"; but because they simply can't get to us. Even if they could get to us, us being "worms" to them really has no bearing on if they would visit. Humans run off and study far less intelligent species in random places all the fucking time. That argument is old and tired. And it's quite a stretch to assume that all intelligent civilizations capable of interstellar/intergalactic travel would not bother us due to some universal code of honor involving the avoidance of "dumb" civilizations. There would be far too many civilizations out there for all of them to have met each other and share ideas. If they could reach us, some would want to, others might think its a waste of time. I just don't see anyone trying to reach anybody with friendly intent and greetings. Lastly, given what we have seen with human life and how we treat each other, if the cosmos did allow for species to cross paths, then there would be infinite war and conflict, not a happy "universal community"

I'm sorry if I came across in a malicious way; I guess I'm a bit of a devil's advocate but the point is noted. I don't say worms as a bad thing either. I would imagine that a species that is say ten million more years evolved than us would have gone through all of the conflicts and lesser goods of our current happenings. I also believe that if a species is to survive long-term, that it will reach a point of general happiness and respectability for all life - but as you say, this is just a personal belief, and my opinion is no more or no less valid than yours. I just really, really, very strongly want mankind to evolve beyond its present state.
 
Any suggestions on scopes I for a novice who is trying to partake in this with his 10 year old son.

Oh course as novice buying a first scope to use with my kid I dont want to spend bundles on one, sub-$200 would be perfect as well as ability to show him things that will blow his mind and perhaps get him in to the wonders of space I had at his age.

thanks guys.
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
Have you ever driven through the midwest of the USA? Very flat, lots of dirt and fields, not many trees at all. From high above you mostly see the dirt.
Have you seen Blue Marbel 2001?
800px-BlueMarble-2001-2002.jpg

Most of NA, all of Canada, looks like a desert in Blue Marbel 2012.
 
Any suggestions on scopes I for a novice who is trying to partake in this with his 10 year old son.

Oh course as novice buying a first scope to use with my kid I dont want to spend bundles on one, sub-$200 would be perfect as well as ability to show him things that will blow his mind and perhaps get him in to the wonders of space I had at his age.

thanks guys.

For around $200 this would be pretty good for a child:
http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes...eflector-Telescope/pc/-1/c/1/sc/21/p/9851.uts

It was my first telescope. In fact I took it out to the mountains last night for the first time in a while and had some lovely views of Saturn. It only has a 5" primary but I would think that would be sufficient for a 10 year old. It will provide some great lunar and planetary views, and even some deep space if you are away from light pollution. It also weighs less than 30 pounds.

!!eGlk+QBGM~$%28KGrHqZ,!h4E1K-tS%2934BNV6uYq2R!~~_35.JPG
 
Any suggestions for documentaries or any kind of videos/websites/etc. for someone who knows nothing about astronomy but wants to learn?

If you have Netflix streaming I cannot recommend Carl Sagan's Cosmos enough. There is also a series on there titled How the Universe Works, which is one of the most fascinating series I've ever had the pleasure of viewing.

The Sagan Series on youtube is great but more all encompassing.

I'm sure others can offer some better youtube suggestions.
 

Zoibie

Member
I own the former and Brian Cox speaks with a sense of profoundness and passion that I've not seen since Sagan.

Like any good teacher, he's great at explaining these profound concepts to a general audience.

Also a lot of beautiful imagery in these series, feels like an Attenborough doc at times.
 
Interview and article about Elon Musk's thoughts on Mars: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17439490 . I'm pretty skeptical about his claim of ~15 years until round trips to Mars are (sub-million-dollar) affordable, but hopefully he's got something to back that up.
When engineers start giving small time frames and cost estimates, that doesn't mean it's easy (or that the cost estimates will even be remotely close), but it does usually mean it's feasible.

Which is to say: sounds like it's ripe time to get NASA wound up again and do it.
 
Just stopping in to agree with how impressed I was with Brian Cox and WotSS, and that it's a great spiritual continuation from Cosmos.

But yeah, Cosmos first. I would have to say if you can only watch 3 documentary series in your life, they should be Cosmos, the first series of Connections, and The Ascent of Man.
 

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
Massive construction effort begins for world's largest telescope
Pasedena, CA --Astronomers have begun to blast 3 million cubic feet of rock from a mountaintop in the Chilean Andes to make room for what will be the world’s largest telescope when completed near the end of the decade. The telescope will be located at the Carnegie Institution’s Las Campanas Observatory - one of the world’s premier astronomical sites, known for its pristine conditions and clear, dark skies. Over the next few months, more than 70 controlled blasts will breakup the rock while leaving a solid bedrock foundation for the telescope and its precision scientific instruments.

The Giant Magellan Telescope (GMT)will have unprecedented capabilities, allowing it to peer back to the dawn of time, witnessing the birth of the first stars, galaxies and black holes, while also exploring planetary systems similar to our own around nearby stars in the Milky Way. The GMT will help astronomers probe the nature of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, mysterious forms of matter and energy that allow galaxies to form while the expansion of the Universe accelerates.

At a ceremony on the mountaintop, Dr. Wendy Freedman, Director of the Carnegie Observatories and Chair of the Giant Magellan Telescope Organization said, “Today marks a historic step toward constructing an astronomical telescope larger than any in existence today. Years of testing have shown that Las Campanas is one of the premier observatory sites in the world and the Carnegie Institution is proud to host the GMT.”

Dr. Charles Alcock, Director of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, at the mountaintop ceremony said, “The GMT will play an important role in helping us understand the Universe and our place in the cosmos.”

The Giant Magellan Telescope is being built by a consortium of institutions from the US, South Korea and Australia with funding from both private and public sources. To date 40% of the telescope’s ultimate $700M price tag has been committed and active fundraising is underway to secure the remaining funds. Dr. Matthew Colless, Director of the Australian Astronomical Observatory said, “Astronomers from Australia, and countries around the world, travel to Las Campanas to make use of its dark, clear skies that produce images as sharp as anywhere on Earth. It is fitting that the world’s largest telescope be located at this superb site.”

In January of this year the partners cast the second of GMT’s seven 28-foot diameter primary mirror segments at the University of Arizona’s Steward Observatory Mirror Laboratory. The seven primary mirrors, each weighing 20 tons, are the heart of the giant telescope, providing nearly 4000 square feet of light-gathering area.

Optical scientists at the Mirror Lab are putting the finishing touches on the first mirror segment, whose surface now matches its optical prescription to better than one millionth of an inch. Dr. Patrick McCarthy, the GMT Project Director, said “2012 is a banner year for the GMT project as we complete the design process, develop the primary mirrors and begin work on the site in Chile.”

The GMT partner institutions are the Carnegie Institution for Science, The Australian National University, Astronomy Australia Limited, Harvard University, the Korea Astronomy and Space Science Institute, The Smithsonian Institution, Texas A&M University, the University of Arizona, the University of Chicago, and the University of Texas at Austin. More information regarding the GMT project and Las Campanas Observatory can be found at: www.gmto.org.

http://www.gmto.org/overview.html
 

noah111

Still Alive
$700M seems like fucking nothing when comparing to war jets and shit, wow.

But i'm curious, why build something so huge and capable and then put it on earth (which provides many setback with viewing)?
 

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
They can make a telescope far larger here on Earth than they could for anything in space right now. It's also much cheaper (compared to something like the JWST). We've also been getting a lot better at minimizing the impact of our atmosphere and they say the GMT is supposed to have 10x the resolving power of Hubble. The mirrors are absolutely massive.

Highly suggest you check out the official site, it has some great details.
 

pestul

Member
$700M seems like fucking nothing when comparing to war jets and shit, wow.

But i'm curious, why build something so huge and capable and then put it on earth (which provides many setback with viewing)?

Yep, that is close to the cost that Canada 'almost' would have spent on just about 5 F35s and we originally ordered 65. Government is backpedaling now and probably waiting for a better deal/aircraft. And no, that money will not be injected into the Canadian Space Program. :(
 
I'm sorry if I came across in a malicious way; I guess I'm a bit of a devil's advocate but the point is noted. I don't say worms as a bad thing either. I would imagine that a species that is say ten million more years evolved than us would have gone through all of the conflicts and lesser goods of our current happenings. I also believe that if a species is to survive long-term, that it will reach a point of general happiness and respectability for all life - but as you say, this is just a personal belief, and my opinion is no more or no less valid than yours. I just really, really, very strongly want mankind to evolve beyond its present state.

Fair enough. No hard feelings. I too actually agree that if a species has evolved to technological prominence, then they should have a respect for all living things. I think the smarter a civilization is, the more they realize that nothing gets solved over conflict. Plus, I believe the only way for a civilization to even reach such high levels of technology would be if they learned how to get along and work together. To quote the aliens in Contact "the only thing that makes the emptiness bearable, is each other", meaning other civilizations, not just among themselves. On the other hand, if a species is on the brink of extinction, who knows what lengths they would go to to ensure their survival. Kind of a scary thought actually. And I definitely don't think mankind will get anywhere until we evolve past our present state of petty differences and hunger for power.

SlackAdjuster said:
Suggestions

Neil Degrasse Tyson also has a very articulate way of explaining the universe that's easy to understand and also very thought provoking. I suggest watching his sit down with Steven Colbert:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUVLBtxdj0

And his sit down with Richard Dawkins as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RExQFZzHXQ

Also, Lawrence Kruass has a lot of good youtube content, although not as articulate when it comes to explaining the complicated in a non-complicated way. He also has a talk with Richard Dawkins, found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH9UvnrARf8
 
New deep field image from the European Southern Observatory’s Visible and Infrared Survey Telescope for Astronomy (VISTA):

7007650759_ae92f45949_z.jpg


Larger 9mb 1430x904 (look at this one at least)
Full size 250mb 17000x11000

The image contains more than 200,000 galaxies and is a view of approx 0.004% of the sky. (The big blue stars are foreground stars in the Milky Way so ignore them).

Read more here.
 

saelz8

Member
New deep field image from the European Southern Observatory’s Visible and Infrared Survey Telescope for Astronomy (VISTA):

7007650759_ae92f45949_z.jpg


Larger 9mb 1430x904 (look at this one at least)
Full size 250mb 17000x11000

The image contains more than 200,000 galaxies and is a view of approx 0.004% of the sky. (The big blue stars are foreground stars in the Milky Way so ignore them).

Read more here.

Fucking amazing.
 
I got into some kind of feedback loop when I think about the scale of the universe. Then I get frustrated that I'm incapable of thinking on such a scale, that so many things will be unknown to me in my lifetime. So many wonderous things that inspire awe and all we can do is point our little telescopes from mountain tops.
 
I got into some kind of feedback loop when I think about the scale of the universe. Then I get frustrated that I'm incapable of thinking on such a scale, that so many things will be unknown to me in my lifetime. So many wonderous things that inspire awe and all we can do is point our little telescopes from mountain tops.

That's when I step on ants to make myself feel better.
 
I got into some kind of feedback loop when I think about the scale of the universe. Then I get frustrated that I'm incapable of thinking on such a scale, that so many things will be unknown to me in my lifetime. So many wonderous things that inspire awe and all we can do is point our little telescopes from mountain tops.

You have access to more information by spending 20 minutes on your smart phone than people had access to their entire lives not too long ago. Don't feel too bad, no matter when you're born you'll always yearn for further expansion, it's one of the great qualities about being human.
 
Richat Structure: Mysterious Geologic Formation Seen From Space Station (PHOTO)


r-LAVA-CRATER-large570.jpg


A huge, copper-toned formation in West Africa dominates a mesmerizing photo taken by an astronaut aboard the International Space Station.

Dutch astronaut Andre Kuipers snapped this hypnotic image of the so-called Richat structure in Mauritania, as the space station flew over the Sahara Desert on the Atlantic Coast of West Africa. Erosion of the various rock layers created the ring-like features that make up the sprawling structure, but the origin of the Richat structure remains somewhat mysterious, geologists have said.

The photo shows Kuipers' unique vantage point from the orbiting complex, which flies approximately 240 miles (386 kilometers) above the surface of the Earth. The image was taken on March 7 using a Nikon D2Xs camera, officials at the European Space Agency said in a statement.

More at the link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ous-geologic-space_n_1382028.html?ref=science
 

Raist

Banned
Richat Structure: Mysterious Geologic Formation Seen From Space Station (PHOTO)


r-LAVA-CRATER-large570.jpg


A huge, copper-toned formation in West Africa dominates a mesmerizing photo taken by an astronaut aboard the International Space Station.

Dutch astronaut Andre Kuipers snapped this hypnotic image of the so-called Richat structure in Mauritania, as the space station flew over the Sahara Desert on the Atlantic Coast of West Africa. Erosion of the various rock layers created the ring-like features that make up the sprawling structure, but the origin of the Richat structure remains somewhat mysterious, geologists have said.

The photo shows Kuipers' unique vantage point from the orbiting complex, which flies approximately 240 miles (386 kilometers) above the surface of the Earth. The image was taken on March 7 using a Nikon D2Xs camera, officials at the European Space Agency said in a statement.

More at the link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ous-geologic-space_n_1382028.html?ref=science

It somehow seems like they mixed it up with a shot of the astronaut's latest coloscopy. Looks so weird.
 

Hootie

Member
Richat Structure: Mysterious Geologic Formation Seen From Space Station (PHOTO)


r-LAVA-CRATER-large570.jpg


A huge, copper-toned formation in West Africa dominates a mesmerizing photo taken by an astronaut aboard the International Space Station.

Dutch astronaut Andre Kuipers snapped this hypnotic image of the so-called Richat structure in Mauritania, as the space station flew over the Sahara Desert on the Atlantic Coast of West Africa. Erosion of the various rock layers created the ring-like features that make up the sprawling structure, but the origin of the Richat structure remains somewhat mysterious, geologists have said.

The photo shows Kuipers' unique vantage point from the orbiting complex, which flies approximately 240 miles (386 kilometers) above the surface of the Earth. The image was taken on March 7 using a Nikon D2Xs camera, officials at the European Space Agency said in a statement.

More at the link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ous-geologic-space_n_1382028.html?ref=science

something something Halo 3 something something Ark
 

Zzoram

Member
Yep, that is close to the cost that Canada 'almost' would have spent on just about 5 F35s and we originally ordered 65. Government is backpedaling now and probably waiting for a better deal/aircraft. And no, that money will not be injected into the Canadian Space Program. :(

Yes!!! Didn't know this. Thank goodness they won't buy that crappy plane. They should buy a twin engine if they're buying anything.
 

Setre

Member
Like SlackAdjuster I know nothing about astronomy and would love to learn. I plan to buy/watch several of the documentaries recommend but was wondering if y’all could also recommend some good reading material as well.

Is the book version Cosmos pretty easy to read and understand?
 
Like SlackAdjuster I know nothing about astronomy and would love to learn. I plan to buy/watch several of the documentaries recommend but was wondering if y’all could also recommend some good reading material as well.

Is the book version Cosmos pretty easy to read and understand?

Absolutely.
 
Like SlackAdjuster I know nothing about astronomy and would love to learn. I plan to buy/watch several of the documentaries recommend but was wondering if y’all could also recommend some good reading material as well.

Is the book version Cosmos pretty easy to read and understand?

The commentary is almost verbatim of the show. Sagan wrote it, and he never speaks with complexity. I actually left my hard copy of it in a drawer at a hotel in Hawaii like 8 years ago. I was pissed!

You should also read Stephen Hawking's a Brief History of Time. Another good and easy read. And I haven't read it, but Neil deGrasse Tyson's new book, Space Chronicles: Facing the Ultimate Frontier is supposed to be really good.
 

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
10 Billion Earth-Like Planets May Exist in Our Galaxy: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/ten-billion-earths/
Of the three experiences related to space I'd like to have happen before I die, one is that we'll be able to get high quality images of these earth-like planets in the Milky Way. They're so far away that I doubt even a couple generations after me would live to see humans travel to them, so being able to image them would be a lasting first step.
 
Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos aims to bring up Apollo 11's sunken engines

imagesizer


Amazon.com's billionaire founder, Jeff Bezos, says he's funded a successful effort to locate the mammoth rocket engines that sent the Apollo 11 mission on the first leg of its mission to the moon — and now he's planning to bring them up from the Atlantic Ocean floor.
The five F-1 rocket engines were on the first stage of Apollo 11's Saturn 5 rocket, which dropped into the Atlantic just minutes after liftoff in 1969. In an online statement, Bezos acknowledges that the undersea artifacts, like other hardware associated with the space effort, still belongs to NASA — and he imagines that one of the engines would go on display at the Smithsonian. But in today's announcement, he says he's asked NASA to consider having another engine sent to the Museum of Flight — which happens to be in Seattle, Amazon.com's hometown.
Curt Newport, the underwater salvage expert who orchestrated the raising of Liberty Bell 7, said bringing up the engines would pose significant challenges. He assumes that the engines are among other pieces of debris from the Saturn 5's first stage that are spread across the sea floor. "The information I found suggested that [the stage] broke up due to aerodynamic forces before it hit the water," he told me.

Verifying that the engines are from Apollo 11 rather than a different Apollo mission would require checking parts numbers against NASA's database, he said. And bringing up the engines would not be a trivial task.

"If they're intact, they're like nine tons each," Newport told me. "That is not going to be easy to bring to the surface."
 
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