Special counsel is investigating Trump for possible obstruction of justice, officials

ultracal31 said:
Nah

He'll cite "health" reasons so he doesn't look like a coward to his base supporters
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Nah, he'll say that as long as the deep state has its hooks in deep no true conservative will ever be able to truly change the system, protect the nation from its real enemies, or advance the cause of freedom. That it was a Hillary/Obama IC conspiracy to lie and slander him and that he'll return to the private sector where he feels he can make a real difference (he won't).
 
kaioshade said:
History so far. Everytime something new comes out against trump people say "this is it, THIS will get him" and it never does. Its handwaved away, and hes back on twitter like nothing happened, or telling the world how its all a witch hunt.

hes untouchable.
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Except most people are just speculating which particular development is going to end up being the megaton in the investigation. Everything still requires the investigation to play out. It's just that every day (often multiple times a day) something even more unbelievable is revealed.
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
The leaks about Trump's reactions to these various stories really do seem to show someone who thinks he's innocent and that this all is a witch-hunt. This, to me, lends credence to the "Trump was barely or not involved in any of the illegal shit people in his campaign may have been doing, but is totally implicating himself because he's a spoiled, privileged baby who thinks he can just make annoying problems go away like he did as a CEO" theory.

The question is whether or not this is one of Trump's "It's not a lie if you believe it" things, or genuine innocence and incredulity.
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That's ultimately the thing I keep coming back to here. We don't even have an accusation of a crime other than all kinds of non-specific nothingburgers. Now we're to "obstruction of justice" about Trump asking for going easy on Flynn. Who's been fired and is facing his own investigations.

This is what you wind up charging when nothing else pans out to grab a win after wasting years digging for anything you can charge. Like with Scooter Libby.

I don't think the movie will even make it to a second weekend.
 
PingPongvonLaserstein said:
Except most people are just speculating which particular development is going to end up being the megaton in the investigation. Everything still requires the investigation to play out. It's just that every day (often multiple times a day) something even more unbelievable is revealed.
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I can see that. It is just getting a bit old at this point. Hopefully these investigations will fully play out and be whats needed to finally get him out of that position.
 
NullPointer said:
Nah, he'll say that as long as the deep state has its hooks in deep no true conservative will ever be able to truly change the system, protect the nation from its real enemies, or advance the cause of freedom. That it was a Hillary/Obama IC conspiracy to lie and slander him and that he'll return to the private sector where he feels he can make a real difference (he won't).
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Imperfected said:
You seem to think he has enough humility to ever admit to having health problems.

Need I remind you that he maintains a relationship with an embarrassing sham of a doctor just so he can fake immaculate health and not have to face his own deficiencies?
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You two make very strong points

My point of view is simply he's too illogical to make accurate predictions hence why I went with the "health" reasons as the one of the many dumb things he could say to himself to get out of this.
 
kaioshade said:
History so far. Everytime something new comes out against trump people say "this is it, THIS will get him" and it never does. Its handwaved away, and hes back on twitter like nothing happened, or telling the world how its all a witch hunt.

hes untouchable.
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Nobody's ever suggested "this is the thing that will get him removed from office by the end of the day." These are all major developments of an ongoing investigation.

I'm not saying he's certainly going to be impeached, but every week this investigation has a development more significant than the previous one.

For somebody "untouchable" he sure hasn't been able to shake this investigation off.
 
kaioshade said:
History so far. Everytime something new comes out against trump people say "this is it, THIS will get him" and it never does. Its handwaved away, and hes back on twitter like nothing happened, or telling the world how its all a witch hunt.

hes untouchable.
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Wrong.

If he was untouchable this shit would have stopped back in January.
 
benjipwns said:
That's ultimately the thing I keep coming back to here. We don't even have an accusation of a crime other than all kinds of non-specific nothingburgers. Now we're to "obstruction of justice" about Trump asking for going easy on Flynn. Who's been fired and is facing his own investigations.

This is what you wind up charging when nothing else pans out to grab a win after wasting years digging for anything you can charge. Like with Scooter Libby.

I don't think the movie will even make it to a second weekend.
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You might be missing the literal 4D chess that's being played here.

They can play whatever cards they want and still be holding their best cards for later use.

Who's to say they're not testing reactions from the Trump administration?
 
kaioshade said:
History so far. Everytime something new comes out against trump people say "this is it, THIS will get him" and it never does. Its handwaved away, and hes back on twitter like nothing happened, or telling the world how its all a witch hunt.

hes untouchable.
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I mean, there's a certain need from the public for instant gratification, but these things don't happen instantly.
 
benjipwns said:
That's ultimately the thing I keep coming back to here. We don't even have an accusation of a crime other than all kinds of non-specific nothingburgers. Now we're to "obstruction of justice" about Trump asking for going easy on Flynn. Who's been fired and is facing his own investigations.

This is what you wind up charging when nothing else pans out to grab a win after wasting years digging for anything you can charge. Like with Scooter Libby.

I don't think the movie will even make it to a second weekend.
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He didn't ask for them to go easy on Flynn, he asked for the investigation to be dropped. He fired the FBI director because of the Russian investigation. I don't see how that's​ non-specific nothingburgers. Pretty clear cut.
 
Master Yoshi said:
Such a toxic thought process.
giant-jenga-garden-game-500x500.jpg


This is what's currently happening. The fall is inevitable.
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comey just gave it the shove
ZTua0.gif
 
ultracal31 said:
You two make very strong points

My point of view is simply he's too illogical to make accurate predictions hence why I went with the "health" reasons as the one of the many dumb things he could say to himself to get out of this.
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Your problem is that you're a rational human being, and therefore cannot possibly begin to understand the thought process of Donald Trump.

Fortunately, I'm a solipsistic sociopath here to guide you through the deranged mind of a madman.
 
kaioshade said:
History so far. Everytime something new comes out against trump people say "this is it, THIS will get him" and it never does. Its handwaved away, and hes back on twitter like nothing happened, or telling the world how its all a witch hunt.

hes untouchable.
Click to expand...
kinda my thought.
 
benjipwns said:
That's ultimately the thing I keep coming back to here. We don't even have an accusation of a crime other than all kinds of non-specific nothingburgers. Now we're to "obstruction of justice" about Trump asking for going easy on Flynn. Who's been fired and is facing his own investigations.

This is what you wind up charging when nothing else pans out to grab a win after wasting years digging for anything you can charge. Like with Scooter Libby.

I don't think the movie will even make it to a second weekend.
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benji cmon bruv
 
crazy monkey said:
kinda my thought.
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Yet my take is that an enormous case is being built, and that tons of people are going down when it's all said and done. They are nailing down every last detail, verifying every possible crime. It's going to be yuge. The biggest scandal in American history.

They aren't really into premature ejaculation.
 
Woo-Fu said:
Don't think it is possible for him to get impeached. He'd resign and say, "The swamp is too deep to drain, folks." before impeachment would go through.
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Exactly what I'm thinking. Some have said he's too proud to resign, but I think there are ways for him to do so that would allow him to save face. All he'd really have to do is what you said, blame the establishment for being out to get him from the start and play up the whole thing as one big "witch hunt" by Democrats and disloyal Republicans. He'll basically do anything and everything he can to smear the image of Congress on his way out the door.
 
Loxley said:
Exactly what I'm thinking. Some have said he's too proud to resign, but I think there are ways for him to do so that would allow him to save face. All he'd really have to do is what you said, blame the establishment for being out to get him from the start and play up the whole thing as one big "witch hunt" by Democrats and disloyal Republicans. He'll basically do anything and everything he can to smear the image of Congress on his way out the door.
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I am curious to see if he flees the country were he ever to step down.
 
Tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't even take the threat of impeachment for him to leave. He's clearly miserable in the presidency. The main thing holding him back is trying to reap benefits of the presidency for personal profit and pride. If he gets assurance that Pence will pardon him while assuring to everyone it's just to get Democrats off his back while also having a good excuse to resign, I think he'd consider it.
 
kaioshade said:
History so far. Everytime something new comes out against trump people say "this is it, THIS will get him" and it never does. Its handwaved away, and hes back on twitter like nothing happened, or telling the world how its all a witch hunt.

hes untouchable.
Click to expand...

All hail our GREAT Orange Lord, Donald Trump, feared by many, beloved by all, blessed with dexterity and grace

and unyielding popularity
 
I actually said this to a friend a while back, but he'd be silly enough to take the offer of escape from someone like Kim Jong Un, and then we'd see him on liveleak, getting blown up with an AA cannon. Wouldn't happen of course, but it led to a fun conversation.

Talking to an official while being blindfolded in a jeep like "I always said Kim was a good, honest man. Democrats twisted my words, you know? They hated that I won, it was all a conspiracy, my supporters know that. They protested for me every day, bigly huge crowds! I had the best crowds at my inaugaration, you know? Obama had his pictures edited by the democrats, but my crowds were the best, huge, nobody does crowds like me. Did I show you my election map? It's the best map of any presidency, bigly numbers. Hillary tried to lie and say she won, but the emails don't lie, and all those leaks against me were fake, leaking is very illegal and dangerous... What's that sound?"
 
I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm not sure that this type of obstruction is enough for an impeachment to the full 2/3rds of the House and Senate. Most people think of obstruction as much more malicious: altering evidence, deceiving the police, etc.

Bill Clinton was impeached on obstruction of justice and perjury. By the letter of the law, he 100% broke it. If he weren't President, he would have been found guilty. And yet he still survived the opposition party's articles of impeachment.

Now I know they seem different - ones a blowjob, and the other is an enemy power - but the reality is that Trump's actions thus far aren't enough of a smoking gun. These are the same spineless Republicans that stood by his pussy video, after all.

If sexual assault wasn't enough for them to end their support, I'm not sure how obstruction of justice is either.

I hope I'm wrong. After all, Pence would be a far better spokesperson for the GOP agenda, and Trump is starting to become a roadblock to some of it.

But I remember that Trump won't go down quietly. It would be so disruptive to our democracy. He would kick the "war on fake news" into overdrive. He is the President and still has a voice resonating with a large portion of the country.

I think they're going to need something more than obstruction. They need to find real malice.
 
kaioshade said:
History so far. Everytime something new comes out against trump people say "this is it, THIS will get him" and it never does. Its handwaved away, and hes back on twitter like nothing happened, or telling the world how its all a witch hunt.

hes untouchable.
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Cite your sources pls? Never seen that. All I ever see is a wide variety of "and so it begins".

Tired of this defeatist bs. If that's all you have to contribute, just walk past the thread.
 
Mattenth said:
I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm not sure that this type of obstruction is enough for an impeachment to the full 2/3rds of the House and Senate. Most people think of obstruction as much more malicious: altering evidence, deceiving the police, etc.

Bill Clinton was impeached on obstruction of justice and perjury. By the letter of the law, he 100% broke it. If he weren't President, he would have been found guilty. And yet he still survived the opposition party's articles of impeachment.

Now I know they seem different - ones a blowjob, and the other is an enemy power - but the reality is that Trump's actions thus far aren't enough of a smoking gun. These are the same spineless Republicans that stood by his pussy video, after all.

If sexual assault wasn't enough for them to end their support, I'm not sure how obstruction of justice is either.

I hope I'm wrong. After all, Pence would be a far better spokesperson for the GOP agenda, and Trump is starting to become a roadblock to some of it.

But I remember that Trump won't go down quietly. It would be so disruptive to our democracy. He would kick the "war on fake news" into overdrive. He is the President and still has a voice resonating with a large portion of the country.

I think they're going to need something more than obstruction. They need to find real malice.
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I thought what Clinton was getting impeached for was lying under oath?

You are right that what we know SO FAR is not enough pressure to make the GOP vote to kick Trump out of office, but I think the IC and FBI are basically going to keep investigating until Trump is gone. Like it doesn't even matter if Trump were to kick out Mueller, the IC and FBI would still continue their investigation and they would just ramp up the leaks again like they did when Comey got fired.

I think that's the big difference between these two situations: Bill Clinton didn't have the IC and FBI after him, just the republicans. Trump doesn't just have the democrats after him. He has our entire IC and the FBI going after his ass.
 
kaioshade said:
History so far. Everytime something new comes out against trump people say "this is it, THIS will get him" and it never does. Its handwaved away, and hes back on twitter like nothing happened, or telling the world how its all a witch hunt.

hes untouchable.
Click to expand...

much hot takes.
 
Mattenth said:
I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm not sure that this type of obstruction is enough for an impeachment to the full 2/3rds of the House and Senate. Most people think of obstruction as much more malicious: altering evidence, deceiving the police, etc.

Bill Clinton was impeached on obstruction of justice and perjury. By the letter of the law, he 100% broke it. If he weren't President, he would have been found guilty. And yet he still survived the opposition party's articles of impeachment.

Now I know they seem different - ones a blowjob, and the other is an enemy power - but the reality is that Trump's actions thus far aren't enough of a smoking gun. These are the same spineless Republicans that stood by his pussy video, after all.

If sexual assault wasn't enough for them to end their support, I'm not sure how obstruction of justice is either.

I hope I'm wrong. After all, Pence would be a far better spokesperson for the GOP agenda, and Trump is starting to become a roadblock to some of it.

But I remember that Trump won't go down quietly. It would be so disruptive to our democracy. He would kick the "war on fake news" into overdrive. He is the President and still has a voice resonating with a large portion of the country.

I think they're going to need something more than obstruction. They need to find real malice.
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Most Republican voters I've talked to do not think Trump actually committed sexual assault, just that he got caught bragging and joking about being rich and famous and being able to have any woman he wanted because of it, and that the media, because they hate Trump, propped up a bunch of un-vetted accusations in order to damage him and bolster Hillary.

Specific and damning evidence of obstruction of justice could not be as easily sloughed off.
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Most Republican voters I've talked to do not think Trump actually committed sexual assault, just that he got caught bragging and joking about being rich and famous and being able to have any woman he wanted because of it, and that the media, because they hate Trump, propped up a bunch of un-vetted accusations in order to damage him and bolster Hillary.

Specific and damning evidence of obstruction of justice could not be as easily sloughed off.
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Yeah. People may be surprised by the # of people (including women) who shrug it off as just guy talk.
 
Lord Frieza said:
He didn't ask for them to go easy on Flynn, he asked for the investigation to be dropped. He fired the FBI director because of the Russian investigation. I don't see how that's​ non-specific nothingburgers. Pretty clear cut.
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How is the phrase "Russian investigation" not non-specific?

Trump clearly thinks his firing Flynn is punishment enough for his lying, Comey and the FBI disagree, okay, whatever, I don't see obstruction of justice in asking when the FBI clearly has the power and did refuse. Just like they did continue the "Russian investigation" (whatever that means) and even hired a special prosecutor for it.

And I'm still wondering where the known criminal act by Donald Trump part comes into any of this.

This is such an obvious fishing expedition working backwards from the start that it's amazing that people think it's going to lead to anyone in prison let alone the President of the United States. Especially now over 18 months from the earliest start date. Flynn hasn't even been charged and we know what he did. So they clearly aren't even interested in that case seriously other than it's the step to get the obstruction charge.

See that's the problem I have here. Ever other instance we had a crime and knew the crime. What we have here is a suggestion to go easy on someone and from that obstruction? And I'm supposed to believe that's the 4D Chess being played? Because had they not appointed Flynn, there'd be no obstruction charge. So what's the basis for the criminal investigation again?

I mean, feel free to keep hyping yourself up over leaks about a case seemingly headed nowhere. But I'm struggling to figure out why everyone on here cares so damn much about this Russia crap that every little sentence or tweet gets drooling celebration when neither Obama or Hillary considered it anything important and we're talking about as the grand endgame amazing crime is an obstruction charge because of a suggestion in a conversation? Come on. The cabinet alone probably has committed ten times that many crimes in the last decade.

TestOfTide said:
I thought what Clinton was getting impeached for was lying under oath?
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That's perjury.
 
To anyone saying he's gotten completely off from everything he has done is expecting this investigation to be much easier than it actually is. They are sifting through YEARS of evidence and witnesses, getting testimonies, getting teams together of very educated people in the law. He's been president for 6 months and has likely only been under investigation for maybe 9 months possibly a little more. We can see day in and day out the sheer amount of information there is here, new stuff leaks weekly, new people of interest are brought up, the tangled web gets more tangled. It's also EXTREMELY serious that they be very safe and even more thorough with information.

People act like Mueller and co. can just Google search and cite the first thing that comes up like everyone else who does "research"
 
Zolo said:
Yeah. People may be surprised by the # of people (including women) who shrug it off as just guy talk.
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Unfortunately, that and much worse is normal guy talk. It just depends on the social milieu that surrounds you; you just may not have been exposed to it before. And it's not just guys, some of the most inappropriate things I've ever heard came out the mouth of female friends.
 
Mattenth said:
I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm not sure that this type of obstruction is enough for an impeachment to the full 2/3rds of the House and Senate. Most people think of obstruction as much more malicious: altering evidence, deceiving the police, etc.
Click to expand...

If the investigation were over today, and concluded that there was both collusion and obstruction, both done personally by Trump - in other words, the worst possible outcome for him - I have zero confidence that Trump would even face impeachment. The votes in the House probably wouldn't be there (and it's only a majority in the House, not 2/3rds).

That's why I'm pinning my hopes on the 2018 midterms. If Democrats take the House (they likely won't take the Senate, and a supermajority is mathematically impossible), not only can they impeach Trump, but that will mean GOP Senators up in 2020 will have to be worried, and maybe be willing to vote for removal to save their own asses.

Unless there are numerous GOP Congresspeople with ethics that have somehow managed to hide that from the rest of the party for years, that's the best we're going to get.
 
I still don't think the Democrats will want to impeach with the 2020 primaries having effectively started. Unless the House Democrats decide they want to shut down the government for two years purely for Trump's scalp.

And there's no point in voting in 2020 to convict someone who can be not just denied re-election but easily denied re-nomination. And there's the easiest of outs, "we should let the voters decide."
 
The house will only vote to impeach if it ends up so dire that he's so toxic that he threatens their re-elections. Even then, they woudl try to pressure him to resign, quick pardon ala Nixon, and then deal with the fallout, distancing themselves where they can.

If dems take 2018, they will go for impeachment if they have the numbers.
 
gaugebozo said:
It wouldn't be for a new person in that position, it goes down the chain of command. There are two Trump appointees below him, and he hasn't filled the rest of the spots so there's some ambiguity about what happens if both of those people resign or are fired. Here's a good read on it by a Harvard Law professor: https://www.lawfareblog.com/if-trump-fires-mueller-or-orders-his-firing
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I imagine this scenario going like Darth Vader in The Empire Strikes Back.

"You have failed me for the last time, Deputy General Rosenstein."
"Associate General Brand, it's now time to fire Robert Mueller. You are in command now, Deputy General Brand."

Wish I had SunhiLegend's GIF making abilities.
 
Mr_Antimatter said:
The house will only vote to impeach if it ends up so dire that he's so toxic that he threatens their re-elections. Even then, they woudl try to pressure him to resign, quick pardon ala Nixon, and then deal with the fallout, distancing themselves where they can.

If dems take 2018, they will go for impeachment if they have the numbers.
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Would he actually buckle and resign in that case, or would he be so dumb and stubborn that he would force them to pull the trigger? I wonder.
 
I really can't imagine a halfway realistic scenario where the Senate has to even vote on conviction. Especially when it's so easy to simply bump him off the ballot.

An impeachment and trial started in 2019 is going to last well into 2020.
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
The leaks about Trump's reactions to these various stories really do seem to show someone who thinks he's innocent and that this all is a witch-hunt. This, to me, lends credence to the "Trump was barely or not involved in any of the illegal shit people in his campaign may have been doing, but is totally implicating himself because he's a spoiled, privileged baby who thinks he can just make annoying problems go away like he did as a CEO" theory.

The question is whether or not this is one of Trump's "It's not a lie if you believe it" things, or genuine innocence and incredulity.
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This is kind of where I'm at. I think he's really just a dumb idiot that got wrapped up in things that are way beyond him. But I can't say he'll get pity from me once he goes down.
 
Not a surprise and this was likely already happening. The real piece of news I want to know about is what evidence do they have to go on.

You don't just investigate the President on just suspicion. That said with Trump who knows.
 
Banzai said:
This is kind of where I'm at. I think he's really just a dumb idiot that got wrapped up in things that are way beyond him. But I can't say he'll get pity from me once he goes down.
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The one thing that really makes me question this is how buddy-buddy Trump has been with Russia from day -500. It's just not a normal position, especially from a Republican.

Maybe his corrupt aides influenced him, maybe he's just a big fan of Russia for some other unknown reason, but it's always been weird that he won't say one bad word about Russia or Putin regarding anything. Somehow he considers them our best ally and no one has put worth any good reasoning for why that is.
 
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