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Special edition of Charlie Hebdo will feauture caricatures of Mohammed
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Squid ink.
Packed crowd in Paris Grande Synagogue breaks into spontaneous rendition of French national anthem after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu finishes remarks. Rough Cut (no reporter narration).
http://www.nytimes.com/video/multim...ynagogue-crowd-breaks-into-national-anth.html
This is after Bibi said that Israel was the only refuge for French jews and kind of invited them to emigrate to Israel (he did the same after the killings 3 years ago).
The French Prime Minister responded to that by saying that french Jews need to stay in France and that France without Jews wouldn't be France anymore.
This " Marseillaise " is symbolic and very powerful. And I agree with what our Prime Minister said even though i don't like him and don't agree with him very often.
http://www.nytimes.com/video/multim...ynagogue-crowd-breaks-into-national-anth.html
This is after Bibi said that Israel was the only refuge for French jews and kind of invited them to emigrate to Israel (he did the same after the killings 3 years ago).
The French Prime Minister responded to that by saying that french Jews need to stay in France and that France without Jews wouldn't be France anymore.
This " Marseillaise " is symbolic and very powerful. And I agree with what our Prime Minister said even though i don't like him and don't agree with him very often.
Rocket Scientist
Member
And yet you'll find ample research confirming that economic, political and social conditions are at the root of radicalisation. They are the roots of the tree, not the ornaments. The religious texts themselves are still a huge problem, but it is ignorant to view radicalisation separately from conditions in the middle east. Even with people born in Europe, the cluster fuck in the middle east is a crucial factor. Without it I don't see radicalisation happening on anything close to the scale we are currently witnessing.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Well to be fair I suspect a good number of people will find them gross and offensive.
But I think they should publish away and not be intimidated and I salute them
Themacabre
Member
I would like to be shocked. I wish that I could be shocked at this, but it's all too common on the internet.
ugh, those comments... :/
It could simply be that people that would make comments like this are more likely to make comments at all. You know what I mean?
It's part of the reason why tumblr (and the like) is such a horror show of self righteous stupidity, and overblown, offended reactions at anything and everything.
block tower
Member
ugh, those comments... :/
something something "only extremists support the attacks or repercussions against "apostates" "..
Bill Mahr is slowly becoming more correct with his crude statement.
RustyNails
Member
No problem. You never heard of The Message? It came out in 1979. Also, there is a miniseries of Umar, the companion of the Prophet. It was really well done. For those that don't know, it's not just the Prophet's face that they do not show, but of the Rashidun Caliphs as well (The first 4 caliphs, companions of Muhammad). But the Umar series went ahead and showed the face of the Caliphs.
It's the religion that gives the results we are seeing. It's almost trivial to interpret the holy texts in such a way as to be compelled to kill for their god. It's not as easy with other religions. Also, an import point to note is how the religion has been ingrained in politics/government since its inception. Add to that the conflicts of different sects from within the religion and you got yourself a bad situation. No one would deny that interactions with the West have made things worse. But it's not the root of the issue.
gutter_trash
Banned
another reason why secular European democracies who have separated church from state should never go back to clerical dogma or give up an inch to religious fanatics
vpance
Member
Because the idea is, it would be an extenuating circumstance. Nowhere else in the world is there any other example of something that is completely trivial to 3/4 of the population, but is also very antagonizing to 1/4 of it. It's a very unique and complicated situation to understand.
Yeah because some random comments on the internet represent a large enough sample to establish that most muslims in the World support the killing of the CH Cartoonists ?
I could link thousands of screenshots of youtube comments calling for all white americans to commit genocides against arabs and muslims and Jews. That the US should be a " white only " country. That black people are apes who should go back to the jungle etc.. etc... So i can safely conclude that most americans are a bunch of Nazis who want to kill half the world's population, who support slavery and segregation and who think that tens of millions of black people should be sent to Africa. Deal ?
And what you're failing to see is that some of the people writing those comments about the muhammad are probably not even muslims (if you look at their names). They might be though but it's pretty safe to say that it's unlikely.
He's been correct the whole time. While there are only a 'few' million violent extremists, there are literally hundreds of millions of moderates that hold some of the same views but don't act out on them. You have to remember that we're dealing with 1.5 Billion people in the entire religion. Even the minority % has huge numbers.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
One of the unfortunate things about this whole incident, is that stupid juvenile thing like Charlie Hebdo is now being treated as this shining example of freedom of speech that we all should adore and revere.
Ah well.
Oho, terrorists in disguise eh, all those hundreds of millions of moderates.
Ah well.
Oho, terrorists in disguise eh, all those hundreds of millions of moderates.
RustyNails
Member
Shhh!
block tower
Member
wat?
Bill Mahr never said ALL Muslims, and neither am i. he said hundreds of millions and thats hardly a stretch given the number Muslims in the world. and im curious as to how your so quick to deny these facebook posters as "false Muslims" ?? im sure at this point that many Muslims will be offended by this cover of the french magazine , so its hardly shocking seeing people on social media posting knee-jerk responses and supporting the violent acts from last week and wishing further violence on the magazine company.
I found this whole story of one of the Tunisian Jewish victims of the kosher grocery attack heartbreaking.
http://972mag.com/yoav-hattab-son-of-chief-rabbi-of-tunis-died-a-hero-and-tunisian-patriot/101249/
He is the son of Tunisia's Chief Rabbi (Tunisia apparently has a small community of about 1,000 Jews.) He was proud of having voted in the first elections after Tunisia's revolution in 2011, and posted a photo to Facebook with the blue ink he used from voting.
He was in the grocery to buy wine for a friend's Shabbat dinner when the attacker entered. He reached for one of the terrorist's guns to try to disarm him, but apparently couldn't get the safety off in time before he was shot and killed.
Afterwards his father appeared on French television heartbroken, and hoped that one day Jews in France could live without fear, as he felt the Jewish community in Tunisia did.
http://972mag.com/yoav-hattab-son-of-chief-rabbi-of-tunis-died-a-hero-and-tunisian-patriot/101249/
He is the son of Tunisia's Chief Rabbi (Tunisia apparently has a small community of about 1,000 Jews.) He was proud of having voted in the first elections after Tunisia's revolution in 2011, and posted a photo to Facebook with the blue ink he used from voting.
He was in the grocery to buy wine for a friend's Shabbat dinner when the attacker entered. He reached for one of the terrorist's guns to try to disarm him, but apparently couldn't get the safety off in time before he was shot and killed.
Afterwards his father appeared on French television heartbroken, and hoped that one day Jews in France could live without fear, as he felt the Jewish community in Tunisia did.
Whew. Thank you for this post. +1
I mean, we could have the debate about the PEW polls if you wish but there was already a few threads on that.
Also, I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth. People who believe in one thing but don't act on it are not 'terrorists'. But I guess it's better to ignore what people actually believe in order to take a shot on a message board.
Yes, there are probably hundreds of millions Muslims worldwide who think the staff of Charlie Hebdo got what they deserved. Let's not pretend this isn't so.
Life Of Brian was called stupid and juvenile as well, in amongst all the protests, death-threats and bans.
Funny that.
Statements sourced from your ass aren't particularly factual.
http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world...agazine-sell-online-at-dollar84000/ar-AA7WOom
The previous issue went for thousands on eBay but some were believed to be false bids and the print run was 60,000.
They are going to try and make this a 1,000,000 print run in multiple languages.
So I would guess around the hundreds range since sellers will have more competition and that's if you avoid the false bids which are bound to happen with such a spike in media interest.
Better off just keeping them at this point.
Could find equally disgusting comments on the web in response to unarmed black men being gunned down by the police.
What did quality have to do with it?
And what is a moderate? Someone who thinks blasphemy should be punished? Someone who thinks sharia should rule? Someone who thinks people should be punished for leaving the faith? Someone who thinks homosexuality should be criminalised? Someone who wants their laws placed above all others, in all countries, at all times?
Conservative Islam seems to want to be the moderate voice. Not being in support of terrorism doesn't make you a moderate.
Naked Snake
Member
wat?
Bill Mahr never said ALL Muslims, and neither am i. he said hundreds of millions and thats hardly a stretch given the number Muslims in the world. and im curious as to how your so quick to deny these facebook posters as "false Muslims" ?? im sure at this point that many Muslims will be offended by this cover of the french magazine , so its hardly shocking seeing people on social media posting knee-jerk responses and supporting the violent acts from last week and wishing further violence on the magazine company.
If my very own mother, who would perfectly fit the definition of a "moderate muslim", said of the attackers "I don't blame them, the magazine insulted the prophet."
(after which I stormed out of the room saying "I don't sit with people who condone murder")
I am certain that tons and tons of average everyday muslims feel the same way, even if they won't publically admit it, and it disgusts me to the bone.
Sutton Dagger
Member
If I'm able to ignore the vile, offensive things in your holy books (genocide/rape/homophobia/eternal punishment), I'm sure you can get over a couple of images in a largely insignificant magazine. If we're going to start banning 'offensive' things then these books should be the first to go, right?
20cent
Banned
They just announced 3 millions.
60,000 (printed and distributed, around 10-20k readers) -> 3,000,000 copies
yeah, totally gross to talk about "publicity" generated by the events.
People are moved by the horrible shooting, the sad death of journalists and artists, and protested against the attempt to shut the mouth of a newspaper in France, "country of the Human Rights"~.
But people still don't care about Charlie (the newspaper itself), except the ebay resellers wannabe and Facebook/Twitter/Instagram-I-bought-my-copy-to-match-my-IamCharlie-avatar-please-like attention whores
Can believe people get offended of some cartoons of a silly sky wizard.
That's an interesting point. Most of the religious books offend and are a threat for a large part of the world's population. Not to mention the propagation of hate speech. Better not to open this Pandora's box of excluding all the offensive things.
Sutton Dagger
Member
Exactly.
block tower
Member
thats crazy man, idk how id handle a situation like that. i respect you for at least standing by what you believe is right in the face of your mothers faith and feelings.
guggnichso
Banned
Satire is ALWAYS offensive to some group or another. I don't know what all of you want. Non-offensive satire? Self censorship taking every sentiment of every political, ethnical, social, religious group into account?
Then you can just go on and ban satire outright.
Also, this is spot on:
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Nothing.
But of course, that doesn't disallow me feeling unfortunate that something like Charlie Hebdo is now being championed by some as this most important thing ever, considering how juvenile their usual content is generally.
And before someone throws a stone at me calling that "they deserved it" or "oh I am silently agreeing/happy that they got shot, I am just not out-loud saying it" hogwash, no. It's really sad that people got killed by these events. (Though I realize I have no way of actually making any of you believe me, but whatever yeah?).
I'm interested in what the Koran says is an appropriate response to being verbally attacked, insults or blasphemy?
I thought the general rule of thumb in Western society is that offensive words and the like are countered with discussion/debate and not an escalation to physical confrontation or violence.
I thought the general rule of thumb in Western society is that offensive words and the like are countered with discussion/debate and not an escalation to physical confrontation or violence.
Let's take Indonesia, which has over 250 million citizens, most of them Muslim, most of them in favor of Sharia law. Do you honestly think they're OK with making fun of their prophet? Freedom of speech and all of that? Do you think you could publicize Mohammed with a star up his ass in that country without serious repercussions?
I'm not saying they are all declaring war on the West right away, but I'm pretty sure they don't have much sympathy for the Charlie Hebdo victims.
RustyNails
Member
They're probably not ok, but they also probably not ok with gunning down the cartoonists in cold blood either. If that was the case, why did it take two idiots affiliated with Al Qaida in Yemen to murder the cartoonists.
Naked Snake
Member
There's a fallacy in your post.
You can be ok with the murders but never commit them yourself in a thousand years.
m_shortpants
Member
Stupid internet commenters are stupid. More news at 11.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
It's funny seeing a guy with the username condom talk down about something being childish or wrong.
Juvenile is a bit of a non-argument when it comes to satire, do you have a problem with the imagery or what they are saying? Behind the most childish image can be the most scathing criticism.
If you find they have a point how they make it is purely a matter of taste and not reflective of the worth of their satire.
Writing off the quality of something is the quickest way to argue it shouldn't have been said. To say nothing of value would be lost.
It was done to Life Of Brian, the Satanic Verses ....
History judges them a bit different now.
metalslimer
Member
All of the so called moderate Muslims who even want this banned just shows how important it is for it to be published.
RustyNails
Member
Here's a clear cut verse on mockery and insults:
It basically says to ignore mockers, and worship God instead.
Lamel
Banned
That doesn't just apply to muslims though, this can be applied to anyone.
See: Americans and drone bombings. Can't blame all Americans for it though.
RustyNails
Member
I agree with that. I was reading the Gallup poll (conducted in America) on violence against Civilians, and turns out Muslims and Atheists are the least likely groups to justify civilian violence.
But what I'm saying is that you can be against cold blooded murder and against the cartoons at the same time.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
You got flack for this but it's exactly what they're doing to raise capital to keep the paper afloat.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
And now you are putting words in my mouth: me commenting about how I think regarding their quality =/= me thinking that they shouldn't be allowed to do whatever it is that they do.
And there's nothing wrong with someone thinking "nothing of value would be lost" isn't it? Unless you are making yourself the sole arbiter of what people should or should not appreciate, that is.
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