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[Dreamwriter]

What does learning their language accomplish? Theyre gone at the end anyways.

You must have missed how the twist actually happened - teaching their language was the entire reason they came, their "weapon", their gift to humanity, because when you are fluent enough in the language that you start thinking like they do, you start seeing time in a nonlinear fashion. So when in the future the main character writes a book that teaches it, and teaches classes on it herself, humanity in general will start learning to see the future and the past at the same time.

 

[Chris R]

The one thing the movie doesn't address is free will / predestination. It's vaguely alluded when she asks if you would change something about your life if you could. However the complexities of possible futures in a completely free will environment would be overwhelming.

The thing is, having no free will would just suck. You learn the language and then instantly know everything that is to come in your life.

I want to believe there is still free will in this world, and that the time and memories she keeps because of Hannah are worth the loss she experiences.

 

[Einchy]

Well, she could always go back and be with with daughter. She is forever alive and dead to her.

 

[Glass Shark]

As someone with a young daughter, this movie absolutely wrecked me. Great film, I was enthralled from beginning to end.

 

[mrkgoo]

The thing is, having no free will would just suck. You learn the language and then instantly know everything that is to come in your life.

I want to believe there is still free will in this world, and that the time and memories she keeps because of Hannah are worth the loss she experiences.

I don't see why you would assume you would instantly know everything that is to come.

How perfect is your memory? Do you know exactly what has been? I would presume the same would be for "future memories" it would be imperfect. Sure, some things, important things, clear as day. Others murky, and others again, completely forgotten (or whatever the future tense for that would be called).

 

[Brakke]

I don't see why you would assume you would instantly know everything that is to come.

How perfect is your memory? Do you know exactly what has been? I would presume the same would be for "future memories" it would be imperfect. Sure, some things, important things, clear as day. Others murky, and others again, completely forgotten (or whatever the future tense for that would be called).

Isn't this exactly her narration at the beginning?

 

[mrkgoo]

Isn't this exactly her narration at the beginning?

Don't know, can't remember clearly!




;p

 

[fr0st]

The thing is, having no free will would just suck. You learn the language and then instantly know everything that is to come in your life.

I want to believe there is still free will in this world, and that the time and memories she keeps because of Hannah are worth the loss she experiences.

i think there is free will but if she looks into the future then change something then the future will also be altered.

basically she needs to have her kid in order to learn the language and if she doesnt she will fuck up the timeline and bring catastrophe later on.

 

[Dany]

Nah, there isn't multiple time lines guys. She is able to see through space-time. Nothing more is implied.

 

[Knurek]

So, is this a Kwisatz Haderach scenario, when seeing a future locks you and the whole universe to this specific timeline, or does the movie imply total lack of free will by saying whole of future is already set in stone?

 

[shira]

You must have missed how the twist actually happened - teaching their language was the entire reason they came, their "weapon", their gift to humanity, because when you are fluent enough in the language that you start thinking like they do, you start seeing time in a nonlinear fashion. So when in the future the main character writes a book that teaches it, and teaches classes on it herself, humanity in general will start learning to see the future and the past at the same time.

Ok this is my tinfoil hat theory. I watched the movie 2x and listened to the audiobook 3x and they are almost nothing alike.

Assumptions:
The Heptapods are communicating to Louise via her dreams of a future Hannah
The Heptapod language allows for manipulation of time/space/dreams

Proof:
- Hannah being a circular name facilitates the analogy of Heptapod circular language
- Hannah is dying, so is Heptabod Abbott
- There is this very odd scene with Hannah in a cowboy horse costume and Louise is the "tickle monster". Hannah has 2 legs + 4 of the horse and the head of the horse is flopped over creating a 7th leg
- Hannah draws the picture of mommy and daddy and the canary - which is exactly what Abbott sees from his side of the "Looking Glass" - Called the Mommy and Daddy show
- As Louise is figuring out the language there is this other odd scene of Hannah and Louise at a lake, the two of them are flailing around and for some reason Hannah can't put her foot in her boot and needs help - again 7 limbs/feet+shoes minus the one (weak but idk)
- Hannah makes a play-doh Heptapod
- There is a followup scene after the Heptapod ships leave where Hannah is in the exact same cowboy costume but without the additional horse legs (Louise is viewing her own future and is not being manipulated by the Heptapods)

My takeaway was that Abbott was saved because Louise learned the language and whatever issue 3000 years later will be resolved now that humans have the Heptapod language and that Hannah will not be dying of some disease.

This deviates highly from the short story and most interpretations of the movie I've read, but I really really like this theory.

 

[acohrs]

Ok this is my tinfoil hat theory. I watched the movie 2x and listened to the audiobook 3x and they are almost nothing alike.

Assumptions:
The Heptapods are communicating to Louise via her dreams of a future Hannah
The Heptapod language allows for manipulation of time/space/dreams

Proof:
- Hannah being a circular name facilitates the analogy of Heptapod circular language
- Hannah is dying, so is Heptabod Abbott
- There is this very odd scene with Hannah in a cowboy horse costume and Louise is the "tickle monster". Hannah has 2 legs + 4 of the horse and the head of the horse is flopped over creating a 7th leg
- Hannah draws the picture of mommy and daddy and the canary - which is exactly what Abbott sees from his side of the "Looking Glass" - Called the Mommy and Daddy show
- As Louise is figuring out the language there is this other odd scene of Hannah and Louise at a lake, the two of them are flailing around and for some reason Hannah can't put her foot in her boot and needs help - again 7 limbs/feet+shoes minus the one (weak but idk)
- Hannah makes a play-doh Heptapod
- There is a followup scene after the Heptapod ships leave where Hannah is in the exact same cowboy costume but without the additional horse legs (Louise is viewing her own future and is not being manipulated by the Heptapods)

My takeaway was that Abbott was saved because Louise learned the language and whatever issue 3000 years later will be resolved now that humans have the Heptapod language and that Hannah will not be dying of some disease.

This deviates highly from the short story and most interpretations of the movie I've read, but I really really like this theory.

oooh, I like that theory too! Having the child would then feel more relevant to the rest of the story

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Ok this is my tinfoil hat theory. I watched the movie 2x and listened to the audiobook 3x and they are almost nothing alike.

Assumptions:
The Heptapods are communicating to Louise via her dreams of a future Hannah
The Heptapod language allows for manipulation of time/space/dreams

Proof:
- Hannah being a circular name facilitates the analogy of Heptapod circular language
- Hannah is dying, so is Heptabod Abbott
- There is this very odd scene with Hannah in a cowboy horse costume and Louise is the "tickle monster". Hannah has 2 legs + 4 of the horse and the head of the horse is flopped over creating a 7th leg
- Hannah draws the picture of mommy and daddy and the canary - which is exactly what Abbott sees from his side of the "Looking Glass" - Called the Mommy and Daddy show
- As Louise is figuring out the language there is this other odd scene of Hannah and Louise at a lake, the two of them are flailing around and for some reason Hannah can't put her foot in her boot and needs help - again 7 limbs/feet+shoes minus the one (weak but idk)
- Hannah makes a play-doh Heptapod
- There is a followup scene after the Heptapod ships leave where Hannah is in the exact same cowboy costume but without the additional horse legs (Louise is viewing her own future and is not being manipulated by the Heptapods)

My takeaway was that Abbott was saved because Louise learned the language and whatever issue 3000 years later will be resolved now that humans have the Heptapod language and that Hannah will not be dying of some disease.

This deviates highly from the short story and most interpretations of the movie I've read, but I really really like this theory.

I definitely feel they were communicating through her dreams given that a great big heptapod was posing as Renner. I can't remember the exact nature of those dreams but I honestly felt they were pushing her down a certain direction with all of that, especially with her daughter asking what a zero-sum game was... which led to the final events of the movie.

Basically I think that was their way of indirectly telling her what to do.

 

[xeroborn55]

i really liked the movie. felt like the short story was more effective at conveying the emotional core of that story though.

 

[Aselith]

The thing is, having no free will would just suck. You learn the language and then instantly know everything that is to come in your life.

I want to believe there is still free will in this world, and that the time and memories she keeps because of Hannah are worth the loss she experiences.

Seeing the results of the choices you will make isn't the same as not having free will. She's seeing time nonlinearly but it still exists as a line.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I forgot to mention that I feel "weapon" was a mistranslation and they always meant "gift", which continues from the "we don't know if they understand the difference between weapon and tool" dialogue.

So their gift was a tool (their language) which will lead to global unification and eventually to a point where the human race can help them, or maybe they simply needed the human race to not destroy one another.

Perhaps the whole mistranslation leading to destruction thing is analogous to how we behave toward one another.

 

[Aselith]

So, is this a Kwisatz Haderach scenario, when seeing a future locks you and the whole universe to this specific timeline, or does the movie imply total lack of free will by saying whole of future is already set in stone?

Neither. The timeline that you see is your life. If you were going to make a different choice, it wouldn't be you. No one is locked into anything because you made the choice and you just see what you chose.

There's no alternate timelines, you just exist on all parts of it at once.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Neither. The timeline that you see is your life. If you were going to make a different choice, it wouldn't be you. No one is locked into anything because you made the choice and you just see what you chose.

There's no alternate timelines, you just exist on all parts of it at once.

Louise gets all the necessary information to save the day from the future in a typical bootstrap paradox fashion. So it doesn't just seem to be a passive recollection of future events as they unfold from present choices.

Sure she makes those choices and the future comes to pass but only because General Shang decided to tell her that because Louise relayed that information over the phone because General Shang decided to tell her that because--

There is definite manipulation of time, at least as it exists from someone experiencing it in a linear fashion.

Where is that Austin Powers screen grab when we need it?

 

[Jamesways]

Yup.

Now, as a parent of three, ranging from currently 15 to 4 months, this movie hit me hard. I was a wreck by the end. If I knew the future of my children and knew an inevitably bad end was there early, would I have prevented them from even being born? Like, the point of the movie isn't learning an alien language or time being nonlinear. It's that moments with who we love are the most important, and being in/experiencing those moments is worth the pain, even if you somehow know in advance what will happen.

This is such a great post, and exactly what I took away from the movie as well.

The movie really hit me hard as well, I teared up quite a bit. I swear having kids made me even more of a sap. I'm a father if two girls, age 3 and 1. Those flash forwards immediately drummed up the emotions of playing with my kids or watching them succeed or struggle. And Hannah's death was tough to watch, again thinking of my kids and how I would feel.

It really is about the moments we have with our loved ones, and being fully present in them. The wife hasn't seen but I did ask her if she knew what was to happen in life if she do it again with our kids and she said absolutely.

Great movie, loved the emotions it evoked, especially the scene where she was in the ship alone, and experiencing more flash forwards. I haven't had a movie make me feel like that in a while.

It did make me think of Slaughterhouse Five big time though. Similar themes and alien influence.

 

[afternoon delight]

It did make me think of Slaughterhouse Five big time.

As soon as we left the theater me and my friends exclaimed "oh shit they were the Tramalfadorians!"

My girlfriend took me to a repeat viewing to catch it all from the beginning and the construction of the film is so tightly knit, really wonderful. I love too that as much as it is about aliens it's just as much about her deeply personal loss.

Love love love the film and can't wait to get the soundtrack, sounded like The Shining or 2001.

 

[muteki]

Movie was amazing.

For others that may remember clearer than me, for the "flash forwards" seen in the first half of the film up to where she starts learning the language, are they presented as actual thoughts/memories she is having, or are they just cuts to different scenes meant to throw the audience off?

In other words, did they transition into/out of them by showing her having a conscious reaction to them, or were they more just hard cuts into/out of the scene?

Just makes more sense to me that they wouldn't be intended to be dreams or thoughts until she started learning the language, if it was implied they were actual thoughts prior to that then I'm pretty confused.

 

[Polioliolio]

I'm a bit disappointed to be honest after seeing it earlier today.

It's a good film for sure - extremely competent. The real thread / twist - Louise's ability to mentally criss cross through time because she let herself think in the Alien's universal language felt good. But we just had to have the film-makers do that look we're so clever - we tricked you with the cinematic medium. I wasn't impressed.

Subverting your concept of the films timeline has been done too many times to impress me to honest. By Christopher Nolan for example - who the director here is seemingly falling into the path of. And it's not because I'm a Nolan fanboy - in fact I think he's quite the hack.

My problem is I wanted - Close Encounters/Contact - not cinematic parlour tricks.

Still, I have been thinking about it a lot today and I would certainly recommend it to anyone as worth seeing.

Yeah, I feel like it's a bit overhyped. Although, I went into it completely blind other than knowing it has 100% on rotten tomatoes.

I liked it, and I like some pretty bad movies, but the CG at parts was kind of bad, the aliens looked goofy as all get out, instead of just otherworldly, the first time they played the alien voice clip on the recorder, it sounded like a stock sound effect of Hollywood alien/monster. I rolled my eyes at the person who came with me and she had a similar reaction.

Unless the aliens' writing involved very very advanced technology, there's no way they could biologically create that and whisk it around via.. What.. Mind power? Why the mystical nature of it? Why not just spit the ink on the window with intent, and call it a day?

The writing was also written 2 dimensionally as if it was to be viewed from the otherside of a window, and you could argue that was specifically written that way for the humans, as if in the future when the aliens need help, they'll contact the humans via window again.. But if that's how the aliens communicate, it's odd that their language is only effective head on.. That is, if you were to their side, you wouldn't see the circle, but a line.

Also, it started to click for Louise when she touched the 'glass' and the writing, and then... Somehow can perform the writing herself (?).. How does she do that? Can they share information via thoughts? If that were true, you'd think the aliens would be trying to get the humans to touch the window sooner. For all we know, Louise is the only one in the world to try communicating by touching the window, and without her suit.

Also, if the aliens knew all of this about the humans in the future already, shouldn't they have already known about understanding the human language? I suppose the whole learning processing might have just been for the human's benefit.

The chicken and the egg moment when the Chinese General told her that information, while neat, felt pretty corny.. Clearly at that party was the first time she had heard that information, based on her reactions, but they couldn't have gotten to that point without Louise already knowing that before she heard it from the general.. So.. Feels a bit of a cop out. Also, if understanding the alien language allowed Louise to rewire her brain to ... Experience time differently (haha, what!), why was she having flash forwards of her daughter at the beginning of the film? Shouldn't the flash forwards only start once she began working with the alien language? I mean, maybe being the language professor, she's already primed to receive it.. Possibly already thinks the ways the aliens do? Ah dunno.

It was a good, entertaining movie, but I'm surprised it has 100 on rotten tomatoes. Usually people are more critical, especially around here.

My prediction is, you're all going to think a lot less of it once the newness wears off, like how quickly a good half of you turned on Hillary in a matter of days.

The emotional bits with the daughter were tear inducing, but the aliens were just a little silly.. It didn't help that they looked like an elephant's knuckle.

Also, if her goal was to teach the alien language then, did she teach it to her daughter and husband? Maybe the father wouldn't have left if he thought the way the aliens did instead of just knowing his daughter would die young.

Thought provoking, but I think there's less to chew on than the movie wants you to think.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

FYI: It's based on a short story in which the way it is written plays into the fluidity of temporal perception. I'll just post the section from wikipedia:

This is reflected by the tense used in the story's writing: a small portion of the story, at the beginning and the end, is written in the present tense, indicating that the story is being written at the time of the daughter's conception. The sections describing the interactions with the Heptapods is written in the past tense. The sections describing the daughter's life—from birth to death and beyond—are written as Dr. Banks' remembrances that she nonetheless describes using the future tense, because learning Heptapod B enables Dr. Banks to know her daughter's entire life even before she agrees to conceive her.

So the above complaint can be explained as the story being retold from Louise's perspective after she's dealt with the Heptapods (and thus has their "gift"). So she's remembering the past, experiencing her present, and remembering the future at the same time.

The writing was also written 2 dimensionally as if it was to be viewed from the otherside of a window, and you could argue that was specifically written that way for the humans, as if in the future when the aliens need help, they'll contact the humans via window again.. But if that's how the aliens communicate, it's odd that their language is only effective head on.. That is, if you were to their side, you wouldn't see the circle, but a line.

That's a silly point. What do you think our written languages would look like from the side if we wrote on glass? They have a spoken language too but this story primarily concerns the written form.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I definitely feel they were communicating through her dreams given that a great big heptapod was posing as Renner. I can't remember the exact nature of those dreams but I honestly felt they were pushing her down a certain direction with all of that, especially with her daughter asking what a zero-sum game was... which led to the final events of the movie.

Basically I think that was their way of indirectly telling her what to do.

I don't know that a heptopod was posing as Ian--rather, it felt more like the heptopod was in the room with both of them.

The editing and choices involved in the construction of that sequence are interesting. The perspective is played with a little--there is an over the shoulder shot of Ian from Louise's perspective that immediately cuts to a shot of Ian still but over Louise's other shoulder.

And, as Louise is talking, she continually looks to her left (where Ian is) and to the right, but that's prior to us knowing the heptopod is in the room.

It could just be the director wanting to make the dream sequence feel "strange" but I thought it was interesting.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I don't know that a heptopod was posing as Ian--rather, it felt more like the heptopod was in the room with both of them.

That bit was a dream. And after Ian asked something about dreaming in their language it cuts to a reverse shot of him as a Heptapod. At least that's how I remember it.

 

[Jamesways]

One little detail I loved, the translated Chinese transmission, something like "there is no time, use weapon."

That was great. They were trying to be clear and say time does not exist.

I'm eager to read the short story, going back to Slaughterhouse Five, I loved the way the aliens tried to explain it when Bolly asked if they knew the future why didn't they change it? Basically that there is one ever present moment, the past and future we are perceiving is all happening at once. The end of the universe is happening the same time as the beginning, everything just is and always will be as it is.

Mind bending stuff, trying to understand this while being stuck IN time.

Like the whole "does God have a mom". Things our minds will probably never comprehend while we're within this physical universe.

 

[Anton Sugar]

That bit was a dream. And after Ian asked something about dreaming in their language it cuts to a reverse shot of him as a Heptapod. At least that's how I remember it.

Just saw it last night for the second time.

She is in a room with Ian and Forest Whitaker--I think she has a flashforward and they ask her if she is okay. She says yes, then steps outside to get some air and looks at the shell.

It then cuts to her sitting in the room with Ian--which is all a dream. He is talking about some theoretical concept of immersing yourself in a language (this is when the awkward perspective/jump cut occurs) and she responds, but she is also looking to the left and right, as if she is talking to two people, even though Ian is the only one there.

He then asks if she is dreaming in their language and it cuts to a shot of her face again. She is looking to her left at Ian and says she has had a few dreams, *then* looks to her right and says something like "but that doesn't mean I'm not fit to do this job".

Cut to heptapod and chills. She wakes up in her trailer, with Whitaker knocking on the door.

 

[Insane Metal]

I can't fucking wait to see this

It will "arrive" here on the 24th though (Brazil)

 

[Blader]

I don't know that a heptopod was posing as Ian--rather, it felt more like the heptopod was in the room with both of them.

That's what I had thought too. Isn't it standing in the opposite direction of where Ian is sitting? Didn't even think the movie was suggesting the heptopod was posing as Ian until I came into this thread.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

That's what I had thought too. Isn't it standing in the opposite direction of where Ian is sitting? Didn't even think the movie was suggesting the heptopod was posing as Ian until I came into this thread.

I can't remember that specific part all that well to be quite honest. But I still feel those creatures were indirectly manipulating her to come to a certain conclusion. Mostly because of her child asking that specific question, which I felt was a little suspect given that the future memory seemed to repeatedly pop up until she came to a conclusion that led to the final series of events. But then again maybe that was just her subconscious using her new gift to figure out the problem.

They also seemed to react to the threat of violence and then once that passed their ships returned to their normal orientation. So my question is if things are certain to happen then why would they react in a way that implied they didn't know.

The whole vibe I got from the final act is the more events progressed the less possibilities there were so they needed to take immediate action to ensure a favourable outcome (Abbott knew his death was imminent so gave Louise all the information they needed in one go rather than a gradual drip feed as before).

 

[MattyG]

In regards to the free will discussion: doesn't she say that she could choose not to have her daughter, but she chooses to because she saw the moments in between and they would be worth the pain in the end? Or did I misunderstand that.

Did we hear what the Chinese general's wife's last words were? I couldn't hear, and I didn't know if it was intentional or not.

 

[mrkgoo]

In regards to the free will discussion: doesn't she say that she could choose not to have her daughter, but she chooses to because she saw the moments in between and they would be worth the pain in the end? Or did I misunderstand that.

Did we hear what the Chinese general's wife's last words were? I couldn't hear, and I didn't know if it was intentional or not.

That's the whole point about these things and free will. She says she "chose" to do it, but maybe it was always preordained for that outcome?

Like in lost, what ever happened, happened.

I don't think we heard the full thing. It's irrelevant anyway - point is that she knew something she couldn't possibly have known and so invites Shang to listen further.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Just listened to /film's review.

Man, this movie is still stretching my mind. For example, the non zero-sum moment. Each time I'd seen it, I thought that she was just "remembering" the flashforward of what she told her daughter. Like, Ian saying "non zero-sum" just "reminded" her or connecting that strong memory of her daughter. In actuality, she learned the term from Ian and then uses that in the future to help her daughter with the term.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

re: "Abbot is death process"
Don't be sad! Here's what the Tralfamadorians say

The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral. All moments, past, present and future, always have existed, always will exist. The Tralfamadorians can look at all the different moments just that way we can look at a stretch of the Rocky Mountains, for instance. They can see how permanent all the moments are, and they can look at any moment that interests them. It is just an illusion we have here on Earth that one moment follows another one, like beads on a string, and that once a moment is gone it is gone forever.
When a Tralfamadorian sees a corpse, all he thinks is that the dead person is in a bad condition in that particular moment, but that the same person is just fine in plenty of other moments. Now, when I myself hear that somebody is dead, I simply shrug and say what the Tralfamadorians say about dead people, which is "so it goes.”

 

[Maxrunner]

Was the weapon the language learning?

 

[Pickman]

I really think "weapon" was a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word, where it was more closely associated to "tool" or interchangeable with it.

 

[afternoon delight]

Like, Ian saying "non zero-sum" just "reminded" her or connecting that strong memory of her daughter. In actuality, she learned the term from Ian and then uses that in the future to help her daughter with the term.

 

[LucidMomentum]

Was the weapon the language learning?

The US was being rushed to ask the Heptapods of their purpose, due to China, et al. coming to a similar situation.

China translated the term as "weapon", whereas we find later on the definition was closer to "tool" or "technology".

However, being a military focused expedition of course hearing "weapon" got people on edge.

I really think "weapon" was a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word, where it was more closely associated to "tool" or interchangeable with it.

Yep. This also goes in line with the conversation about the Sanskrit translation for "war", which is why Louise was on the mission in the first place.

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

All I can say is I absolutely adored it. The language was simply mesmerizing as you watch the aliens control it with their bodies and you begin to fully grasp what it is. It just hit so many personal notes for me in regards to their dissection of language. Most people rarely acknowledge the fact that their inner voice and their deepest, most personal thoughts are in a language that was given to them.

Also, "Abbot is death process" 😭

 

[Polioliolio]

FYI: It's based on a short story in which the way it is written plays into the fluidity of temporal perception. I'll just post the section from wikipedia:



So the above complaint can be explained as the story being retold from Louise's perspective after she's dealt with the Heptapods (and thus has their "gift"). So she's remembering the past, experiencing her present, and remembering the future at the same time.



That's a silly point. What do you think our written languages would look like from the side if we wrote on glass? They have a spoken language too but this story primarily concerns the written form.

Okay, I was thinking they spoke to each other through the ink since it was produced by their own bodies as if they evolved that primarily for communication.

 

[Aurongel]

This film's screenplay is really top tier stuff. It is extremely subtle with its references to the ultimate truth and hides them all over the place throughout.

For example, when the Heptapods tell the Chinese "There is no time, give weapon". They're literally saying "time does not exist to us, we're giving you that gift". During a scene where the American government thinks they're sending the wrong message, they're actually misinterpreting one they received due to our cognitive biases.

Great, great stuff.

So do you guys think

Spoiler

Abott knew he would death process?

 

[shira]

Movie was amazing.

For others that may remember clearer than me, for the "flash forwards" seen in the first half of the film up to where she starts learning the language, are they presented as actual thoughts/memories she is having, or are they just cuts to different scenes meant to throw the audience off?

In other words, did they transition into/out of them by showing her having a conscious reaction to them, or were they more just hard cuts into/out of the scene?

Just makes more sense to me that they wouldn't be intended to be dreams or thoughts until she started learning the language, if it was implied they were actual thoughts prior to that then I'm pretty confused.

I prefer to believe that Villeneuve intentionally created those scenes with specific purpose and visual cues.
IE
- the two Hannah cowboy costumes
- the canary in Hannah's picture

I'm not watching the movie a third time but we can get a better idea when the DVD comes out and some redditor can analyze it frame by frame.

 

[Aselith]

Louise gets all the necessary information to save the day from the future in a typical bootstrap paradox fashion. So it doesn't just seem to be a passive recollection of future events as they unfold from present choices.

Sure she makes those choices and the future comes to pass but only because General Shang decided to tell her that because Louise relayed that information over the phone because General Shang decided to tell her that because--

I don't necessarily agree. Being to be present gives you the clarity to make decisions based on future information but the manipulate time, there would need to be an alternate timeline where you don't have that ability or go a different way. There's no hint of that in the movie. It's a closed feedback loop where she knows in the past what she knows in the future but that's because she's present in both places at once. She asks the questions in the future because she remembers the past where she needed the information. It's weird and paradoxical but she's not changing anything, it still goes in a straight line but she's conscious on multiple points on the line at once.

Think of the description at the beginning when they are learning the language and it is described as writing a sentence from both ends at once.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I definitely interpreted that as consciousness of those "memories" (that is, the future) seeping into her at that time. She has explicit reactions to them and they become more intense/frequent as she learns more of the language. I feel like it's direct.

 

[Kito]

...She explains it in the movie as "learning/understanding different languages can change how your brain perceives or thinks about things".

Take this to an extreme where a language is 3 dimensional or time based and then the way you perceive time changes, thus having memories of the future.

I was confused about her 'ability' until I saw your explanation. Nicely put.

 

[Moz]

One thing that stuck with me about the Chinese general. Has anyone considered that his wife wasn't dead yet. That's why Louise giving him his wife's last words worked... He was learning the language and starting to see future visions too but wasn't as far along in the learning process as Louise. She gave him the last words of his wife from the future, which he had seen in a vision (or "remembered" the future event for the first time when he heard them from Louise). Louise made him realize the visions of his future he was having were real and that she had cracked their language. Presumably at some point in the learning process you get good enough to tap into your future knowledge of the language too, instantly mastering it at a certain point because you can perceive all of your cumulative knowledge of the language in non-linear time.

Incidentally the line in Mandarin was given in a Q&A. It translates as "In war there are no winners, only widows."

Regardless, it's not so much a film about aliens as it is about determinism, perception, communication and emotion. I was floored by it.

 

[tearsintherain]

Saw this today, loved it. Absolutely blown away by how the movie is "smarter" than the viewer in many ways, and doesn't dumb anything down for audiences. So, so, so rare especially for big budget movies.

Two things it reminded me a lot of were the Dune books, especially the later ones where the people with prophetic abilities talked about how "trapped" they felt with their abilities to see the future. That really came through here for me in a way that didn't with the written word, like goddamn it is truly fucked up that you can see the rest of your life in visions and not change a damn thing about it.

Lost played around with that too, although it got super messy and confusing by the end.

Either way I loved it, the time and alien interactions really felt like something I haven't seen on screen ever before, and for that I absolutely appreciate something new.

 

[piratepwnsninja]

I really wish people would stop using words like "present" and "future" when talking about nonlinear time. I guess it is the easy way to discuss it, though.

 

[Brakke]

Relative time language is fine even if we experience it nonlinearly. We use relative direction language to discuss location in 3D. "North" and "South" aren't universally true, they're either relative to your position or else to some arbitrary fixed point. People aren't confused when we say that North Dakota is south of Canada.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Yeah, I mean, we ARE humans with linear perceptions of time, after all