He lost to one amateur one on one.
After being seriously wounded by a shot to the gut.
And after said amateur embraced the Force and let it guide her actions just like Luke did all those years ago in the Death Star trench.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
After being seriously wounded by a shot to the gut.
And after said amateur embraced the Force and let it guide her actions just like Luke did all those years ago in the Death Star trench.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
My argument is in shambles. Well played.
That seems weak. What about his friggin mother Leia? She is still alive when Snoke says Kylo should return to complete his training. Is she such a non entity in his life?
Obi-Wan and Yoda also didn't seem to have any problem training people with attachments to the other side.
The editing there was oddly sloppy compared to the rest of the fight.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I can only conjecture and BS. I mean---Han did run and go back to smuggling. Maybe he honestly couldn't find him? Or maybe ..... hrmmm....I dunno. lol.
Also, one other thing I noticed this last time. When Leia talks about sending Kylo off, it occurred to me this time that her order is that she wants him to train with Luke. Then after she states they lost him when they sent him away. I might be reading way into her words, but it almost makes it seem like.
1) Kylo goes to train with Luke
2) The dark in him is recognized. Training is ended for fear of him going to dark side. Kylo sent away.
3) Snoke gets hands on Kylo.
4) Kylo goes back and murders Luke's padawans
FlashbladeGAF
Member
He also wanted Fin to suffer for being a traitor and causing all of their plans to fail which is why he lightsaber tortured Fin in the shoulder.
Yeah, which is why I'm not sure if his hand was sliced, or his saber. Or maybe yet another glancing that caused him to drop it.
Starsailor
Banned
i already started =D (fake)
Kylo seems to put a lot of blame on Han. We don't know exactly why.
Jawmuncher
Member
I can't get over the Rey scene on Jakku where she is wearing the Rebel helmet while chewing and smacking some food with her mouth open. It's the most vivid image & sound I have of TFA.
I initially thought she cut off his hand then I looked back and assumed since he had what looked like a full set of digits it was the saber.
My favorite shot of the film.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I'm 100% convinced it was because he had to separate himself from the last thing that attached him to good. Whether that is messed up or not is another argument. And yeah...I agree. That is screwed up if he didn't have that attachment to his mother. But it happens. In the novel of this movie, Snoke and Kylo talk about Vader's greatest weakness being his sentiment---for Luke. It was a weakness that caused him to "falter" and be seduced to light. Kylo couldn't complete training until he killed his last weakness that could seduce him.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Maybe he thinks Han being his father makes him weaker since Han isnt a jedi.
Not true
Let's be honest here, praised Jedi Knight heroes (AotC Obiwan) have fallen AND stayed DOWN to much less...
Kylo is a badass at controlling pain.
Kylo had to receive a total of FOUR lighstaber injuries before STAYING DOWN.
That's ON TOP of a Bowcaster shot to the gut. And people still call him a "scrub." smh
Snoke either:
1. Only wants Kylo to be a strong as he needs to be have The First Order succeed.
2. Rey is NOW a major threat along with Luke Skywalker and his reuniting with the Resistance and training of her.
3. Kylo Ren needed to first kill a loved one to snuff out the last light, before his advanced darkside training.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Still 2 movies left.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
To be fair, Rey wasn't an amateur when it came to fighting/surviving.
She was left on Jakku when she was like 4 or 5.
Surviving all on her own in that time is some Warrior/Shaolin Monk type skill.
Trigonometrize.
Member
There's no way his hand got cut off. That would've been made super clear. There's too much poetry in that for it to be unclear.
Think Kylo has a throwaway line like "as a father he wasn't there" to or about him in the movie. Like Han ran away. But why? And couldn't they stay close to whereever Luke tried to train him? The JJ StarWars universe seems awefully small when it is needed, so why did they have to "abandon" him?
And what about Leia?
Was she like "Can't deal with this brat who seems to hear voices. Let me go back to running the Death Star killing business on a Yavin IV look a like rebel base"?.
I really hope EPVIII doesn't continue the vagueness and gives some answers.
Seems like Kasdan and Abrams don't have any yet and are counting on Rian to resolve it.
Kitschkraft
Member
Finn's new outfit?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Makes you wonder how well the Jedi and Sith are trained if some no-name who taps into the Force can beat someone trained in the force.
The Librarian
Banned
That's not the impression I got. I mean, maybe with that "boyfriend" line, but other than that he's a good person who cares about Poe and Rey.
There are several very well done visual moments in this film:
- The one that you mentioned, with Rey and the pilot helmet.
- The stormtroopers going "Nope!" after Kylo's outburst
- The whole "nazi" moment with Hux
- The whole Han-Kylo moment, ending with Han dying while touching his son's face in a last love/forgiveness gesture
- The mind duel for the lightsaber
- The moment between Kylo and Rey with him asking her to be trained by him and her embracing the Force
Even Kylo hitting his wound, but that's maybe more about great acting than filming.
Hopefully they realize Rey is boring and focus on Finn and Poe.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
The Stormtroopers noping outta there felt like JJ was going straight for the Family Guy / Robot Chicken parody right away.
I think you're thinking of a line from when he's trying to interrogate Rey with the force. Something close to "Han Solo... you think of him as the father you never had. He'd have been a disappointment."
The Librarian
Banned
Rey isn't boring; she just needs a good woman in her life.
Absolute top is Rey walking out of the star destroyer exhaust, imho.
Entire Jakku was visually top notch.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Like any training, it is a fight to be better than yourself.
Yoda in Empire tells Luke the force has nothing to do with muscle. Control your mind/emotions and you will have a greater connection with the Force.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
If Han knows who Snoke is then why don't they explain more about him?
Leia is free at the moment. Dem May/December romances.
Fake mystery is the best mystery.
The Librarian
Banned
I was thinking more of some hot, dirty action with Phasma in a trash compactor.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Gotta save stuff for the sequel.
We didn't know shit about the Emperor until ROTJ and we didn't get into who he actually was until the prequels.
...Because there wasn't really a reason to have Han explain who Snoke is? Nobody in the movie was asking "Who is Snoke?".
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Then why physically train with light sabers?
Raw sewage always gets the people going. And compression force.
The Librarian
Banned
Basically. "Let me tell you about this person you know about."
For the benefit of the audience, it'll probably be Rey who has it explained to.
UnemployedVillain
Member
It's ma-the force. They ain't gotta explain shit
The most sense will make if Luke will explain it to Rey.
But it would basically be superfluous because what Snoke exactly is has little importance to the rest of the plot.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Because they do need to defend themselves from the Dark Side and the Sith.
But when it comes to tapping into the Force itself, Yoda never showed Luke any techniques. He only focused on lifting rocks and X-wings and knowing there are no limits except those you place on yourself.
Yes that is the one. So how did he disappoint? If you had a dad like Han Solo with a friend like Chewie hanging around. How is that bad? He must have really changed into a different character between Ep6 and Ep7.
EPIV: A smuggler with a concience, in the moment where it counts he is selfless and returns to help the rebels land the killing blow on the Death star.
EPV: Being a general for the Rebellion, helping the princess to escape, sealing their love.
EPVI: Getting rescued by his love, being a general in the Rebellion again, leading the assault on the shield generator on Endor.
EPVII: Back to being a smuggler, abandoned his son, his wife and the Rebellion, then in the last act he is leading the assault on the shield generator on Endor again.
How comes? I really, really hope they have some meat to fill these blanks in EPVIII. It just feels like a convenient retreat for now. Like the hero telling his buddy in the sequel that it "just didn't work out" between his love interest from the first movie and him so they could get a new girl into the sequel or start from scratch again cause it was too boring to find a way to work the actual grown character development into the story.
I would guess that training with lightsabers also require a certain degree of knowledge of the Force.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Does it? Snoke is the puppet master so I'm surprised he is brought up once on the rebel side. I get it they were occupied with the Starsucker but it seems like information someone would eventually ask, "wait, what's this about a sith lord?"
My idea is that it's the same principle as for martial arts. You train with a weapon, but you attain the highest level by cultivating your mind. Pure weapon training only makes you above average, but not a master.
BluePigGanon
Member
It wouldn't have been relevant to anyone he was talking too - Finn and Rey don't need to know about Snoke.
As someone above me said, probably Luke will get into the Snoke topic with Rey. Or that conversation will happen between movies and Snoke will get more screentime in Ep8, and you'll learn more about him firsthand.
Chill. He'll get his time.
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