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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works

I wanted Kylo to win and the chasm separates him from his kill or surviving by escape. Rey and Finn would have been saved by the Falcon but it would at least give us some reason to think Kylo isn't a total jobber, and gives Rey a reason to train.
Rey has a lot of reason to train:
-Snoke is out there, still pulling the strings.
-Ben is still alive, will no doubt get stronger and want revenge.
-The Knights of Ren appear to still be out there.
-Given the political makeup of the galaxy at the end of the film, Rey's training will play a substantial role in how the galaxy will shape out, as no doubt she'll be involved in taking out the First Order's leadership.

I'm sure others can think of more reasons.
 
i think chewie was able to shot him because he was still "shocked" at what he just did


That's what I mean.
It shows the contrast between him in the beginning.

In the beginning he killed an old man HE KNEW, and who KNEW HIM and he was able to STOP A BLAST IN MID AIR.

He knew he would eventually have to face his father if he was going to continue down the Dark path.
Even though he was afraid of that day, he also wanted it to come so he could fully embrace the Dark Side and the power it would bring him.

Fast forward to the climax... After he killed his dad, the look on his face showed there was no such feelings of euphoria.

He got shot in the stomach because, the feelings he got weren't the feelings he was looking for.
 

nib95

Banned
Ok, random theory time. I believe Snoke could indeed be Plagueis (Palpatine/Sidious's master), but more than that, I think Plagueis could actually be responsible for creating, and thus partly giving birth to Anakin, and the entire Skywalker line.

It is said that Anakin never had a father, but was born out of the force, or of midichlorians. What if Plagueis used his ability to revive people from the dead, to instead create new life, through Anakin's mother Schmi using the force? He could be the one responsible for creating Anakin, and setting this whole thing in motion. The orchestrater of it all. The Skywalker bloodline so to speak. This could also explain why the Skywalker's are so powerful in the force, and also why they are so privy to the dark side.

I think the thing Plagueis may not have accounted for, was Sidious/Palpatine taking him out as soon as he did, which sort of put his plans on hold. Sidious may have done this learning of Anakin, Plagueis's creation, and wanting such an apprentice for his own.

After Sidious's attempt on Plagueis's life, I believe Plagueis used his powers to revive or heal himself, but that it left him in a grave, weak and horribly disfigured state (hence the scarred look of Snoke), needing a great amount of time to recoup and/or properly heal, a result of which he took a backseat and let Palpatine play out his own plan. Only after the fall of the Republic and death of the Sith (Vader and Sidious, perhaps returning some power back to Plagueis), did he re-enter the fray.

I think that could be one of the reasons the Skywalker bloodline was or is so important to Plagueis/Snoke, and Palpatine too. It is that said Palpatine created a son (Triclops) himself in a similar way, out of the force, so it's possible this is something he learned directly from Plagueis, who used the technique to help create Anakin in the first place.


This is all just guesswork and unsubstantiated theory mind, but I thought it sounded plausible enough.
 

Toxi

Banned
Lawrence Kazdan clearly wasn't providing enough of a clear explanation with Kylo Ren getting shot and the wound visibly affecting him. He should have also gotten his arms and legs chopped off and been forced to fight with a lightsaber in his mouth. Then it would have truly been a fair fight, though still a stretch to have Rey win.
 
Rey has a lot of reason to train:
-Snoke is out there, still pulling the strings.
-Ben is still alive, will no doubt get stronger and want revenge.
-The Knights of Ren appear to still be out there.
-Given the political makeup of the galaxy at the end of the film, Rey's training will play a substantial role in how the galaxy will shape out, as no doubt she'll be involved in taking out the First Order's leadership.

I'm sure others can think of more reasons.

There's big reasons why but the only one I can see is Kylo killed Han. She cares for Snoke? Knights of Ren? Political make-up of the universe? At least with her losing we can actually understand the point in training. Her winning is like, "cool, you beat the baddie." Felt missed because her winning doesn't seem to add anything to her story and adds it all to Kylo Ren's.
 

injurai

Banned
Lawrence Kazdan clearly wasn't providing enough of a clear explanation with Kylo Ren getting shot and the wound visibly affecting him. He should have also gotten his arms and legs chopped off and been forced to fight with a lightsaber in his mouth. Then it would have truly been a fair fight.

Yeah, people are really dense about a few things the movies tried really hard to convey.
 

Jumeira

Banned
Anyone else bothered by the best parts of the film being used as bitesized gifs? Keep having to scroll through as I don't want to see these until I watch the movie in its entirety. Dilutes the impact. Kind of annoying.
 

Toxi

Banned
Anyone else bothered by the best parts of the film being used as bitesized gifs? Keep having to scroll through as I don't want to see these until I watch the movie in its entirety. Dilutes the impact. Kind of annoying.
Why the fuck are you in the spoiler thread?
 

Ishida

Banned
Anyone else bothered by the best parts of the film being used as bitesized gifs? Keep having to scroll through as I don't want to see these until I watch the movie in its entirety. Dilutes the impact. Kind of annoying.

Do you mean here? In this thread? The spoiler thread?
 

KevinG

Member
Anyone else bothered by the best parts of the film being used as bitesized gifs? Keep having to scroll through as I don't want to see these until I watch the movie in its entirety. Dilutes the impact. Kind of annoying.

If you haven't seen the film, you're doing a disservice to yourself by being in this thread at all.
 
Anyone else bothered by the best parts of the film being used as bitesized gifs? Keep having to scroll through as I don't want to see these until I watch the movie in its entirety. Dilutes the impact. Kind of annoying.
No, I wouldn't be in the spoiler thread if I hadn't seen it.
 
Yeah, people are really dense about a few things the movies tried really hard to convey.

If people are confused then I'd argue it wasn't really conveyed that well. The only signs of his injury affecting him was him pounding his side after every set of clashes. We didn't see him breathing harder, we never saw him faulter or stagger till the very end, we didn't seem blood in the snow...

Yes we had a number of scenes hyping up the bowcaster, but the amount of damage it was shown doing and the level of injury he was shown having didn't really match up.

Especially when the series has shown serious injuries effectively taking people out of fights
 

Dai101

Banned
FkJactL.jpg


tumblr_mxrlg4QGnz1soz6g1o1_500.png
 

Toxi

Banned
Yeah, people are really dense about a few things the movies tried really hard to convey.

Case in point
If people are confused then I'd argue it wasn't really conveyed that well. The only signs of his injury affecting him was him pounding his side after every set of clashes. We didn't see him breathing harder, we never saw him faulter or stagger till the very end, we didn't seem blood in the snow...

Yes we had a number of scenes hyping up the bowcaster, but the amount of damage it was shown doing and the level of injury he was shown having didn't really match up.

Especially when the series has shown serious injuries effectively taking people out of fights
There's literally a close-up of him bleeding.
 
If people are confused then I'd argue it wasn't really conveyed that well. The only signs of his injury affecting him was him pounding his side after every set of clashes. We didn't see him breathing harder, we never saw him faulter or stagger till the very end, we didn't seem blood in the snow...

Yes we had a number of scenes hyping up the bowcaster, but the amount of damage it was shown doing and the level of injury he was shown having didn't really match up
There will always be people confused about this or that in a movie---that doesn't mean it wasn't conveyed well. It honestly seems like a lot of people got it. And I don't think I wanted them hitting me over the head with it all.
 
If people are confused then I'd argue it wasn't really conveyed that well. The only signs of his injury affecting him was him pounding his side after every set of clashes. We didn't see him breathing harder, we never saw him faulter or stagger till the very end, we didn't seem blood in the snow...

Yes we had a number of scenes hyping up the bowcaster, but the amount of damage it was shown doing and the level of injury he was shown having didn't really match up

Some one post a gif of the clearly visible blood in the snow.
 
He's also hunched over when they meet.
And he looks like utter crap. He has sweat all over his face, though I suppose one could argue that is melted snow. I like both. Also,you can see how unhinged he's become in even his fighting style. During his fight with Rey, we see him take more than one wild swing.

Heck, even Finn gets him with a slice across his shoulder/triceps. On his sword arm! This movie trusts us to put it all together and not berate us with what we've JUST seen.
 

injurai

Banned
If people are confused then I'd argue it wasn't really conveyed that well. The only signs of his injury affecting him was him pounding his side after every set of clashes. We didn't see him breathing harder, we never saw him faulter or stagger till the very end, we didn't seem blood in the snow...

Yes we had a number of scenes hyping up the bowcaster, but the amount of damage it was shown doing and the level of injury he was shown having didn't really match up.

Especially when the series has shown serious injuries effectively taking people out of fights

You're kidding. We saw blood in the snow, we saw him breathing heavily. We saw him staggering both when he fought Finn and Rey. We saw him chase down Rey haphazardly. We saw him struggle to follow up between blows of his saber. He never so much as matched Rey's swiftness in her fleeing. He only kept up because she had to make sure she could parry any incoming attack.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I guess is not canon to be wounded in Star Wars unless you have at least a hand cut off or something.

Otherwise I really can't understand how one can't notice that Kylo is wounded. The only hint that was missing when he paused to hit himself and they showed the blood on the snow was a big bubble saying "HE IS BADLY WOUNDED".
 
And he looks like utter crap. He has sweat all over his face, though I suppose one could argue that is melted snow. I like both. Also,you can see how unhinged he's become in even his fighting style. During his fight with Rey, we see him take more than one wild swing.
.

Like in videogames when bosses loses 80% of their life and became faster and stronger
 

Toxi

Banned
Otherwise I really can't understand how one can't notice that Kylo is wounded. The only hint that was missing when he paused to hit himself and they showed the blood on the snow was a big bubble saying "HE IS BADLY WOUNDED".
Don't worry, someone will add it in one of the fan edits.
 
I guess is not canon to be wounded in Star Wars unless you have at least a hand cut off or something.

Otherwise I really can't understand how one can't notice that Kylo is wounded. The only hint that was missing when he paused to hit himself and they showed the blood on the snow was a big bubble saying "HE IS BADLY WOUNDED".

remember last year when Smaug was defeated because of the first black arrow years ago that destroy a part of his "shield"? Maybe they didn't understand that neither
 

JB1981

Member
Ugh the Plageuis creating the SW bloodline through midichlorians is garbage and if Rian Johnson goes in that direction the next movie will suck. I can see it happening after Looper

Lucas did make it pretty obvious in ROTS thad Anakin was created by Plageuis though .... Ugh fuck the prequels space Jesus
 
OH YEAH!

So, last night I saw this 4th time. Does Kylo get his damn hand chopped off? Or his saber cut in half? I didn't realize until last night, but the VERY FINAL moment of their fight, when they are holding each other's hands and Kylo's saber is in ground....Rey gets free and slices down first at Kylo's right hand. Kylo's saber turns off, then she swings up and slices him across his face. So my question is---what the heck caused his saber to go off? Did he let go in order to not get sliced by her downward strike? Did she hit his hand? His saber itself?
 
I guess is not canon to be wounded in Star Wars unless you have at least a hand cut off or something.

Otherwise I really can't understand how one can't notice that Kylo is wounded. The only hint that was missing when he paused to hit himself and they showed the blood on the snow was a big bubble saying "HE IS BADLY WOUNDED".

Majority of people notice he's wounded, the criticism is whether or not it's enough damage to make him lose to two amateurs one on one.
 

Guy.brush

Member
Any ideas why Snoke couldn't "complete" Kylo's training in the 10+ years since he left Luke's "academy"?

Was Kylo busy with what?

Snoke felt like such a Voldemort wannabe schemer with no real plan. Constantly reacting to what Harry Potter was doing. When he started to discuss BB-8 with his underlings...yuck.
 

injurai

Banned
OH YEAH!

So, last night I saw this 4th time. Does Kylo get his damn hand chopped off? Or his saber cut in half? I didn't realize until last night, but the VERY FINAL moment of their fight, when they are holding each other's hands and Kylo's saber is in ground....Rey gets free and slices down first at Kylo's right hand. Kylo's saber turns off, then she swings it up and slices him across face. So my question is---what the heck caused his saber to go off? Did he let go to not get sliced by her downward strike? Did she hit his hand? His saber itself?

Sabers almost always go off when someone let's go of them. I actually thought he got his head cut off at first, but it was his face that got skimmed. I still don't know about his hand though.
 
Any ideas why Snoke couldn't "complete" Kylo's training in the 10+ years since he left Luke's "academy"?

Was Kylo busy with what?

Snoke felt like such a Voldemort wannabe schemer with no real plan. Constantly reacting to what Harry Potter was doing. When he started to discuss BB-8 with his underlings...yuck.
He couldn't because Kylo still had an attachment to the light---his father. That's why Kylo knew the day would come when he finally had to kill Han.

Sabers almost always go off when someone let's go of them. I actually thought he got his head cut off at first, but it was his face that got skimmed. I still don't know about his hand though.
Hrm. I guess I didn't realize that about sabers. So maybe when she slices down for some reason he has to let go of his saber, which is why it turns off?
 
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