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[QuantumZebra]

Yes. That is exactly the reason. The shape of the chromosomes.

Yep. I never saw people questioning Luke going the clueless farmboy > block lasers while blind > take out ultimate space station using force route

But Rey almost kills her and Finn both trying to escape in the Falcon and beats a horribly wounded Kylo Ren and she is unrealistic and a Mary Sue



hmmmmm

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

All I have to say is.....poor Chewie.



I don't know what happened to the rest of the Knights or what their abilities were, but as it stands he's the only Force user there, which puts his power levels in the First Order at the top. In addition, he's apparently the Supreme Leader's apprentice of sorts. I don't think it's odd at all he'd be high ranking in the Order.

I was just gonna edit my post and say I guess if he is the only one with force ability that already makes him more valuable than the best soldiers.

Still, just seems like a loose cannon and still too conflicted to be trusted at such a position. Snoke even took a jab at him about the latter.

 

[Vyer]

Forget Luke, you guys are skipping an even worse offender....little Annie not going splat into a canyon wall in his podracer!

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Forget Luke, you guys are skipping an even worse offender....little Annie not going splat into a canyon wall in his podracer!

Anakin being a genius kid who could do anything has way more build up and exposition in the first half of The Phantom Menace alone compared to Luke being able to fly a spacefighter throughout the entire A New Hope.

 

[Red Devil]

Anyone else have an issue with Ren? For someone so mentally soft I don't see how he rose up the ranks. Flipping his shit and slicing through computer systems with a light saber every time something went wrong?

Don't get me wrong, I liked the concept of him struggling between the dark and light side, but find it strange that with all that baggage he has become some upper level First Order dude.

And lol at trying to convince us that he was the genetic product of Solo and Leia. I did like act his acting though and I guess that's more important than looking the part.

Yeah he was weakest character in my opinion. In fact I recall people laughing at the theatre(there weren't that many people at the showing though) when he finds out that Rey escaped and begins shouting "GUARDS! GUARDS!" and two Stormptroopers decide to head into the opposite direction.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

To counter the whole, "Rey is an ace pilot because she navigated through a downed star destroyer," let's not forget that her entire life has been scavenging the wreckage. She's probably been in that exact Star Destroyer many times and knew exactly where every little opening and obstacle was like the back of her hand.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Yep. I never saw people questioning Luke going the clueless farmboy > block lasers while blind > take out ultimate space station using force route

Probably because the Internet didn't exist in 1977. And that mostly everyone here watched the OT when they were kids. And now that they are older, they require more setup in order to suspend their disbelief.

But Rey almost kills her and Finn both trying to escape in the Falcon and beats a horribly wounded Kylo Ren and she is unrealistic and a Mary Sue

Right after her shaky takeoff, Rey does incredible and badass maneuvers that Luke could only dream of doing. Poe himself doesn't do those kind of stunts. Most likely, in a different draft, Poe is the one flying the Falcon, but they wrote him out and wanted to keep the set piece.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Right after her shaky takeoff, Rey does incredible and badass maneuvers that Luke could only dream of doing. Poe himself doesn't do those kind of stunts. Most likely, in a different draft, Poe is the one flying the Falcon, but they wrote him out and wanted to keep the set piece.

If I'm not mistaked, Poe was actually supposed to die in that TIE Fighter crash in the early drafts.

 

[The Librarian]

Probably because the Internet didn't exist in 1977. And that mostly everyone here watched the OT when they were kids. And now that they are older, they require more setup in order to suspend their disbelief.

Did you just use nostalgia as a defense?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Poe wasn't supposed to make it out of the TIE, no. There isn't a draft where he's the one flying the Falcon.

 

[Imperfected]

Anyone else have an issue with Ren? For someone so mentally soft I don't see how he rose up the ranks. Flipping his shit and slicing through computer systems with a light saber every time something went wrong?

I think it's a given that his position and privilege have everything to do with being a Sith Apprentice and almost nothing to do with being a capable military commander in his own right.

That's why Hux exists. Ren can't be in charge because he simply isn't qualified, and everyone knows it. He's more of a warrant officer than a commander.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Well if we're going to get nerdy, Obi-Wan mentions Anakin was a Jedi and a pilot, and Luke is a pretty good pilot too.

Luke's flying a combat aircraft is a major suspension of disbelief regardless of how you look at it, but ultimately the movie uses him flying an X-Wing/blowing up the Deathstar as both the climax of the movie and of Luke's arc. The mentions of him being a pilot/good pilot, the drone training scene showing he's "special", the Obi-Wan force pep-talks, and all the various other monomyth checkpoints, pays off with him flying at the end.

Rey nearly starts the movie flying the Falcon through a Super Star Destroyer, there isn't remotely same level of build-up. Does it need that same build-up to justify, or be the climax of the movie? Absolutely not. But if we are going to speculate why Luke's flying might be more accepted by some people, my point is it comes at the end of the movie after slightly more build-up, aka the audience hand was being held a bit more.

ANH is one of the only movies that haven't shown The Force being part of the reason a character can actually fly well. It sets it up purely for the shot he makes, not his ability to fly. So including the Force development into his ability to actually fly is a stretch when looking at ANH alone. It only gains support from TPM but that was released 15+ years later and during that in between time, Luke's ability to pilot that well was never a widely criticized aspect of ANH.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

Anyone else have an issue with Ren? For someone so mentally soft I don't see how he rose up the ranks. Flipping his shit and slicing through computer systems with a light saber every time something went wrong?

Don't get me wrong, I liked the concept of him struggling between the dark and light side, but find it strange that with all that baggage he has become some upper level First Order dude.

And lol at trying to convince us that he was the genetic product of Solo and Leia. I did like act his acting though and I guess that's more important than looking the part.

Easy. Snoke.

It's clear that the actual officers don't have full respect for Ren, and even the troopers don't seem to very much. The only reason anyone tolerates him is because he's Snoke's little prodigy.

 

[Liquidsnake]

To be fair, I almost cried twice in tfa and im not one for crying at movies. And to be really honest, I don't even know fully why I wanted to cry, but I had watery eyes.

For me it was the emotional attachment to the characters that reminded me how I felt when I was 9 sitting in the theater for ROTJ.

I waited for decades to know what became of my heroes.

Daisy Ridley is fascinating to watch her facial expressions and the way she uses her eyes captive me. He body control is also fascinating. The way she wobbles but tries to stand still when the ground crumbles and separates her from Kylo, the way she sat In The Falcon and stared to the right, the way she ran fast while maintaining body control. Just awesome to watch I really was transfixed on her, she was so good, I hope she knows how much she brought to her performance.

The face she makes when Finn gets pulled by his leg by that monster thing. The way she says the word Family, they all penetrated me. She touched my very soul.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Did you just use nostalgia as a defense?

I'm saying that kids have an easier time suspending their disbelief.

 

[Vyer]

Yeah he was weakest character in my opinion. In fact I recall people laughing at the theatre(there weren't that many people at the showing though) when he finds out that Rey escaped and begins shouting "GUARDS! GUARDS!" and two Stormptroopers decide to head into the opposite direction.

I'm pretty sure you were supposed to.

 

[televator]

I'm Cuban-American, and I enjoy the smooth taste of this...

I don't shop at common places like Sedano's, and Navarro.

Those are alright. To be honest I can't really explain why I like some spicy or sour candy. It's just sorta something that has to be there in your brain. I like interesting flavors in most of my food.

 

[Christine]

It's canonical that the Nope Troopers make it off Starkiller, right?

 

[heliosRAzi]

Poe wasn't supposed to make it out of the TIE, no. There isn't a draft where he's the one flying the Falcon.

If I'm not mistaked, Poe was actually supposed to die in that TIE Fighter crash in the early drafts.

Screenplays go through a ton of rewrites before the film is even done shooting. Oscar Isaac was pitched about Poe Dameron to get him signed on, but when he learned that Poe would die, Isaac got hesitant. Abrams then came back and said they could rework him back into the plot. Most likely, there were some drafts in between killing Poe off early and then bringing him back on Takodana.

The articles regarding it are only assuming where Poe was supposed to die. Screenrant thinks he would've died in the opening. Comicbookmovie.com thinks he would've died in the TIE crash.

Besides, the version they pitched him probably wasn't the first draft. It could've been second or third or tenth.

It's canonical that the Nope Troopers make it off Starkiller, right?

They Noped right off of the Starkiller.

 

[Fencedude]

It's canonical that the Nope Troopers make it off Starkiller, right?

They noped right off into a shuttle

 

[-griffy-]

It's canonical that the Nope Troopers make it off Starkiller, right?

Legend has it they have yet to stop nope-ing.

 

[MistaBowaa]

If Rey and Fin were a couple, their couple name would be Ren.

Its like poetry, its so that they rhyme. Every stanza kind of rhymes with the last one. Hopefully it'll work.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

If BroPoe died I would've been very upset.

 

[Fencedude]

Screenplays go through a ton of rewrites before the film is even done shooting. Oscar Isaac was pitched about Poe Dameron to get him signed on, but when he learned that Poe would die, Isaac got hesitant. Abrams then came back and said they could rework him back into the plot. Most likely, there were some drafts in between killing Poe off early and then bringing him back on Takodana.

The articles regarding it are only assuming where Poe was supposed to die. Screenrant thinks he would've died in the opening. Comicbookmovie.com thinks he would've died in the TIE crash.

Besides, the version they pitched him probably wasn't the first draft. It could've been second or third or tenth.

"The version of the script that existed only in my head totally proves my point!"

 

[The Librarian]

It's canonical that the Nope Troopers make it off Starkiller, right?

Should be a gag in the next two films involving the same troopers.

 

[Monocle]

(source)

True story.

 

[sphagnum]

The NopeTroopers should be the canon equivalents of Tag and Bink.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Screenplays go through a ton of rewrites before the film is even done shooting. Oscar Isaac was pitched about Poe Dameron to get him signed on, but when he learned that Poe would die, Isaac got hesitant. Abrams then came back and said they could rework him back into the plot. Most likely, there were some drafts in between killing Poe off early and then bringing him back on Takodana.

This isn't accurate. He wasn't hesitant. He'd already agreed to do the role and signed contracts when word got back to him that the role was being increased due to rewrites.

There is no draft where Poe flies the Falcon.

Citing screenrant and comicbookmovie is no real help.

 

[heliosRAzi]

"The version of the script that existed only in my head totally proves my point!"

All I'm saying is that there is some merit to thinking that Poe--at one point--was meant to fly the Falcon off of Jakku.

Of course, it'll most likely not be proven. I doubt Abrams or Kasdan would release the notes they got on the screenplay.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

All I'm saying is that there is some merit to thinking that Poe--at one point--was meant to fly the Falcon off of Jakku.

It has merit up until the point where you learn that idea never made it into any version of the screenplay.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

The NopeTroopers should be the canon equivalents of Tag and Bink.

I can see that.

 

[Fencedude]

It is truly amazing the lengths people are going to to try and demonstrate that Rey doesn't deserve to have done the things she did.

 

[Arthea]

The NopeTroopers should be the canon equivalents of Tag and Bink.

already is
I'm just afraid to use that gif still as there are people that haven't seen a movie yet

 

[Bobby Roberts]

already is
I'm just afraid to use that gif still as there are people that haven't seen a movie yet

This is the spoiler thread

 

[heliosRAzi]

This isn't accurate. He wasn't hesitant.

"Still, when they parted, Isaac remained hesitant."

“I went back home [to New York], and I thought about it,” he says. “Then I wrote him and said, ‘Okay. I’ll do it!’ I figured it would be a cameo: I’ll come in, do my thing, and maybe it’s actually better not to have to sign myself up for three movies.” By that time, though, things had changed and Abrams soon wrote back: “Never mind. I’ve figured it out. You’re in the whole movie now.”

There is no draft where Poe flies the Falcon.

You have access to them? If you do, send them my way. I would love to read them.

 

[sphagnum]

already is
I'm just afraid to use that gif still as there are people that haven't seen a movie yet

It's the spoiler thread, we've all seen it.

 

[DrForester]

Rey's flying of the Falcon is really the only bit that seems too much, and it's mostly her flying it through the Star Destroyer so well. I can understand her knowing how to fly the ship, since she was raised by the guy who owned it and at least seemed to have some familiarity with it. I think it would have worked better if they cut the slapstick takeoff and show her as a competent pilot from the start.

 

[Slime]

All I'm saying is that there is some merit to thinking that Poe--at one point--was meant to fly the Falcon off of Jakku.

Of course, it'll most likely not be proven. I doubt Abrams or Kasdan would release the notes they got on the screenplay.

Ludicrous, especially since the core plot point of Rey stealing it is integral to her inheriting it in the end.

 

[hipsterpants]

Literally just watched A New Hope again like 5 minutes ago and lol at comparing Rey/Luke piloting skills. Luke doesn't do shit during the Death Star run (he actually gets hit!) until he's one of the last pilots left, at which point his strategy is "go really fast" and he gets bailed out by Han. That doesn't even compare to the maneuvers Rey does with the Falcon.

I need to rewatch TFA (not in theaters, fuck that) to get a better opinion in the Rey Mary Sue debate, but having watched ANH again Luke doesn't even come close. He's basically a whiny goober that gets bailed out by Obi-Wan/Han/Leia at multiple occasions. I'm planning to rewatch ESB and ROTJ soon so maybe my opinion will change, but as I see it using Luke to deflect accusations of Rey being a Mary Sue are really off base.

 

[Arthea]

It's the spoiler thread, we've all seen it.

I had in mind outside of this thread.

 

[sphagnum]

Literally just watched A New Hope again like 5 minutes ago and lol at comparing Rey/Luke piloting skills. Luke doesn't do shit during the Death Star run (he actually gets hit!) until he's one of the last pilots left, at which point his strategy is "go really fast" and he gets bailed out by Han. That doesn't even compare to the maneuvers Rey does with the Falcon.

I need to rewatch TFA (not in theaters, fuck that) to get a better opinion in the Rey Mary Sue debate, but having watched ANH again Luke doesn't even come close. He's basically a whiny goober that gets bailed out by Obi-Wan/Han/Leia at multiple occasions. I'm planning to rewatch ESB and ROTJ soon so maybe my opinion will change, but as I see it using Luke to deflect accusations of Rey being a Mary Sue are really off base.

That said, his flying skills really get played up in the books, like in Heir to the Jedi where he destroys an Interdictor while flying a luxury yacht. He's definitely supposed to be a prodigy due to the Force.

 

[hipsterpants]

That said, his flying skills really get played up in the books, like in Heir to the Jedi where he destroys an Interdictor while flying a luxury yacht. He's definitely supposed to be a prodigy due to the Force.

I mean it's obvious that he isn't doing crazy stuff because of the technical limitations of 1977, but comparing piloting skills based on the movies ia dumb because Luke really doesn't do anything special except pull off the one-in-a-million Death Star shot. Meanwhile Rey is pulling off all sorts of crazy nonsense.

Like, maybe I'm biased or something but having literally just watched A New Hope to use Luke as a way to discredit the Rey Mary Sue argument is dumb. He would have been dead multiple times if not for his companions. At least in ANH, he is handily the least competent of everyone around him.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I mean it's obvious that he isn't doing crazy stuff because of the technical limitations of 1977, but comparing piloting skills based on the movies ia dumb because Luke really doesn't do anything special except pull off the one-in-a-million Death Star shot. Meanwhile Rey is pulling off all sorts of crazy nonsense.

Like, maybe I'm biased or something but having literally just watched A New Hope but to use Luke as a way to discredit the Rey Mary Sue argument is dumb. He would have been dead multiple times if not for his companions. At least in ANH, he is handily the least competent of everyone around him.

Luke does the crazy awesome thing of flying at a straight line.

 

[prag16]

That said, his flying skills really get played up in the books, like in Heir to the Jedi where he destroys an Interdictor while flying a luxury yacht. He's definitely supposed to be a prodigy due to the Force.

Wait, an interdictor? As in the "pull ships out of hyperspace" type of interdictor? I figured that concept was gone since they indirectly wiped out the EU hyperspace travel rules so that Han could execute some flashy maneuvers..

If it means something else entirely, then disregard this comment...

 

[Red Devil]

Rey's flying of the Falcon is really the only bit that seems too much, and it's mostly her flying it through the Star Destroyer so well. I can understand her knowing how to fly the ship, since she was raised by the guy who owned it and at least seemed to have some familiarity with it. I think it would have worked better if they cut the slapstick takeoff and show her as a competent pilot from the start.

Hmm. Personally I'm on the opposite side, I think it's the part that made the most sense, for the reasons you cited, she knew Unkar Plutt had it for long and more likely knew about a bunch of things about it, but not everything, as she calls it "scrap" at first(or "junk, or "trash", don't remember the exact word), becase it hadn't been in use for several years more likely.

 

[sphagnum]

Wait, an interdictor? As in the "pull ships out of hyperspace" type of interdictor? I figured that concept was gone since they indirectly wiped out the EU hyperspace travel rules so that Han could execute some flashy maneuvers..

If it means something else entirely, then disregard this comment...

Interdictors have been canon since the Tarkin novel and one appeared in Rebels.

 

[Slime]

Wait, an interdictor? As in the "pull ships out of hyperspace" type of interdictor? I figured that concept was gone since they indirectly wiped out the EU hyperspace travel rules so that Han could execute some flashy maneuvers..

If it means something else entirely, then disregard this comment...

Yep, they're canon now.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ayME2GMHPGw

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Rey's flying of the Falcon is really the only bit that seems too much, and it's mostly her flying it through the Star Destroyer so well. I can understand her knowing how to fly the ship, since she was raised by the guy who owned it and at least seemed to have some familiarity with it. I think it would have worked better if they cut the slapstick takeoff and show her as a competent pilot from the start.

For me it's not her flying or her being a talented pilot, it's how the script feels the need to shoehorn a RotJ fan-service moment immediately into that sequence. Hopefully now that bad taste of the prequels is washed out of the public's mind, Episode 8's script won't saddle Rey with "OT callback duty" and let her have a chance to do her own thing.

 

[sphagnum]

Interdictors also show up in The Levers of Power, where it's canonized that they are what is preventing the Rebel fleet from escaping at Endor.

 

[Pixels]

Leia needs to stop with th Botox