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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
Don't do that to yourself man lol. Empire is just...Damn. It just hits the notes perfectly. I have high hopes for episode 8 though. Just the potential of where they can take everything excites me.
TheSadRanger
Banned
It started out so well though in RotJ with Leia in that badass bounty hunter costume she wore to rescue Han. She also had the awesome exchange with Jabba with the thermal detonator. She flips the "damsel in distress" trope on it's head by rescuing him and then it quickly goes south :/
I completely agree though about the differences between Leia and Rey.
Shuggananas
Banned
ESB is the perfect star wars as far as I'm concerned but 8 has the potential to place right behind or even do as well, no way it tops it though. It won't have to deal with character introductions, also it will most likely be mush fresher (less callbacks, etc)
heliosRAzi
Banned
I wasn't criticizing it. I just had a gut-feeling is all.
I'm excited to see where VIII takes us too, so many possibilities! Only as I said in previous threads, I'm really not fond of waiting.
BTW when exactly blurey is releasing, of TFA I mean. Do we know?
Talk around here has said either April or June. I'm not fond of waiting either but thank GOD we don't have to wait too long. Just a year and a half. Summer 2017.
And I'm thankful Rogue One comes out this December. Hope it's good. It'll be what I watch to help the wait for Episode 8
mugurumakensei
Member
The flaws of The Force Awakens become a lot more apparent the second time through.
For one, you start to notice the movie is definitely at its weakest when it's trying to hit the same story notes as A New Hope. Not all of the original stuff in the film works, but none of the original stuff is as weak as the callbacks.
Carrie Fisher's acting is pretty bad, and the acting in general is sub-par. Boyega(Finn) and Isaac(Poe) are definitely the strongest actors in the film. Ridley ranged from ok to good. She has good chemistry with Boyega. Some of the callback dialog gets a little cringeworthy.
Character motivations outside of Finn, Rey, and Kylo Ren are lacking. Smoak's laissez-faire attitude is fairly unbecoming of a dark lord mastermind. Han's lack of willingness to fight. It's understandable that Ren's turn would hurt Leia and Han, but why would Han just give up fighting the first order altogether. I could understand him avoiding places where Ben would be, but not fighting altogether tosses aside a lot of his character growth in the original trilogy.
On the other hand, subsequent watches also lets you see the more subtle hints about Rey's previous training since you know the later events. Thus, you can see her using the force from very early on in the movie. She's basically constantly pushing the limits of her force powers throughout the movie. First, it starts out with her being able to speak multiple languages as well as being able to understand droids. Second, the moment she flips the millenium falcon was obviously a use the force moment. The closing of the vent on the Raptor. The voices when she is lead to the lightsaber make a whole lot more sense if you assume she was one of the trainees of Luke in the past. So on and so forth.
Basically, The Force Awakens could have been the greatest Star Wars ever if the story beats were more original, and Leia was cut. Would have been much better to have had Kylo Ren kill Leia before The Force Awakens. It would have been a much better reason for Solo to fly solo(w Chewey)
For one, you start to notice the movie is definitely at its weakest when it's trying to hit the same story notes as A New Hope. Not all of the original stuff in the film works, but none of the original stuff is as weak as the callbacks.
Carrie Fisher's acting is pretty bad, and the acting in general is sub-par. Boyega(Finn) and Isaac(Poe) are definitely the strongest actors in the film. Ridley ranged from ok to good. She has good chemistry with Boyega. Some of the callback dialog gets a little cringeworthy.
Character motivations outside of Finn, Rey, and Kylo Ren are lacking. Smoak's laissez-faire attitude is fairly unbecoming of a dark lord mastermind. Han's lack of willingness to fight. It's understandable that Ren's turn would hurt Leia and Han, but why would Han just give up fighting the first order altogether. I could understand him avoiding places where Ben would be, but not fighting altogether tosses aside a lot of his character growth in the original trilogy.
On the other hand, subsequent watches also lets you see the more subtle hints about Rey's previous training since you know the later events. Thus, you can see her using the force from very early on in the movie. She's basically constantly pushing the limits of her force powers throughout the movie. First, it starts out with her being able to speak multiple languages as well as being able to understand droids. Second, the moment she flips the millenium falcon was obviously a use the force moment. The closing of the vent on the Raptor. The voices when she is lead to the lightsaber make a whole lot more sense if you assume she was one of the trainees of Luke in the past. So on and so forth.
Basically, The Force Awakens could have been the greatest Star Wars ever if the story beats were more original, and Leia was cut. Would have been much better to have had Kylo Ren kill Leia before The Force Awakens. It would have been a much better reason for Solo to fly solo(w Chewey)
Bobby Roberts
Banned
So the movie would have been better if Leia got fridged for Han's sake, basically
I think me and many in this thread think the movie is stronger a second time around. The callbacks imo have much less impact and I'm able to enjoy the movie for what it does and it's still a damn great movie in that respect.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I wonder what they're going to do with The First Order and if they'll continue being a player in the series. I would assume that their military size is smaller than the empires and that the majority of their forces were obliterated.
Digital-Hero
Member
I enjoyed even after my 4th viewing. This movie holds up.
I wish the 3rd act had dropped the idea of another super weapon, and just doubled down on continuing the story of trying to find Skywalker, with the New Order and Resistance trying to get to him first. Could have hit a lot of the same story beats without the absurdity of the Starkiller base in the mix. The story is pretty strong right up until its introduction and the race to find him gets watered down.
Hellwarden
Member
Best character in the whole movie.
Would rather get a movie on him.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think what might be interesting is an anarchy sorta situation, here:
The Republic's fleet (such as it was) is gone.
The Resistance seems to basically have like, 8 X-wings and the Falcon
The First Order has that one Star Destroyer and however many TIEs onboard
So there's no real governmental body, and one BIG ass vaccuum in power.
Digital-Hero
Member
I wouldn't want a movie on him unless it ends with him gets blown away like he did by Han and Chewie. Deify that Mr. Trooper.
Well we wouldn't be having most of the discussions about the character, thats for sure.
(and I, personally, would probably like 'Ray' less than I do 'Rey')
WadiumArcadium
Member
It sounds like Snoke may be based on a SSD according to the visual dictionary, but a scenario like that could be interesting compared to what we've seeen in the past.
LaserBuddha
Member
He died for your sins, traitor.
Digital-Hero
Member
I LOL'ed. Good one.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I do believe one of the earlier ideas for the film was something along these lines.
If the New Republic controls Kuat, they can rebuild a new fleet relatively quickly, or at least at a better pace than the First Order should be able to. And I believe the First Order has multiple Star Destroyers according to Before the Awakening.
funkystudent
Member
I am sure someone is working on a pitch for a multi part comic series to Disney as we speak.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I know there was at one point, the heroes were going to search the underwater wreckage of the Death Star 2 to find information on Jedi sites around the galaxy.
I am still not sure I'm on board with them decanonizing the Star Wars EU, but I just found this picture.
Just think guys. Chances are, in this new and scary SW universe, Han Solo will never have fist fought a bejeweled space otter. I never read this story, so I have no idea why he did this, but this image comforts me in a way I can't explain, and I feel it's loss without ever having truly appreciated it's presence.
Just think guys. Chances are, in this new and scary SW universe, Han Solo will never have fist fought a bejeweled space otter. I never read this story, so I have no idea why he did this, but this image comforts me in a way I can't explain, and I feel it's loss without ever having truly appreciated it's presence.
heliosRAzi
Banned
There's no need to explain. He's fist fighting a blinged-out mongoose. Just let it be, man.
hipsterpants
Member
The more I think about it the less I like Rey as a character. Does she have any real defining character traits aside from being good at things with OP force powers? Does she have that much of a personality? pls assist I want to like her as a character but I'm struggling.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Went to see it today for the first time with my bro. Absolutely loved it and i have very few complaints. If i have one...it's just that it's crystal clear how much Abrams looked at A New Hope for this movie. Maybe if i had not watched all of the SW movies right before going to TFA i i may not had noticed it, but i did and plenty of scenes looked so damn much like how they happened in TFA.
So that probably is my only point of critique. Maybe if i watch it a second time i'll find more things to complain about but right now...i absolutely loved it. The cast was great, really liked all these characters. Especially Rey and Finn were damn good, Oscar Isaac was really good as well and it was fantastic to actually see Han Solo quite a bit in the movie and not just some short scene. Those scenes really brought me back to the first trilogy.
CGI seemed to be kept to a minimum, unless i am wrong and the CGI is just that good. One thing is for sure, Abrams knows what makes Star Wars Star Wars. I can't even begin to compare it with any of the movies in the second trilogy, but it easily demolishes it in insane ways. It's really on another level, the acting in this versus that....oh my..where do i start? Let's just not even go there, haha.
Really enjoyed Rey as a very strong female character, but the same can be said about Finn and Oscaar Isaac (forgot his name in the movie), i really am very very ok with this cast for the new trilogy. What's the general concensus here on Rey? I'd say she's clearly the daughter of Luke, plenty of signs in the movie for that, which raises the question who the mother is. Ep 8 will surely answer that. Also Snoke....i expect explanations about him.As well as more on how Ben turned into Kylo Ren.
Not happy at all that Han Solo was killed off, but i read that Harrison Ford really didn't want to play Han Solo anymore and actually got a ton of money for this last role...so yeah...there's that. What i did like is how it happened. It seemed that Han was convincing his son to come back to him, but that clearly wasn't the case. Would have been rather odd as well, instead of acting like Darth Vader towards Luke, being...redeemed by him i guess, he simply kills off his father.
Absolutely can't wait for episode 8, but slightly afraid because it's a completely different director. I have no expectations for Rogue One, but that cast isn't half bad at all. But yeah, my only complaint would be that in several ways it's a rethread to ANH. It kinda could have done without that, or just not as much.
So that probably is my only point of critique. Maybe if i watch it a second time i'll find more things to complain about but right now...i absolutely loved it. The cast was great, really liked all these characters. Especially Rey and Finn were damn good, Oscar Isaac was really good as well and it was fantastic to actually see Han Solo quite a bit in the movie and not just some short scene. Those scenes really brought me back to the first trilogy.
CGI seemed to be kept to a minimum, unless i am wrong and the CGI is just that good. One thing is for sure, Abrams knows what makes Star Wars Star Wars. I can't even begin to compare it with any of the movies in the second trilogy, but it easily demolishes it in insane ways. It's really on another level, the acting in this versus that....oh my..where do i start? Let's just not even go there, haha.
Really enjoyed Rey as a very strong female character, but the same can be said about Finn and Oscaar Isaac (forgot his name in the movie), i really am very very ok with this cast for the new trilogy. What's the general concensus here on Rey? I'd say she's clearly the daughter of Luke, plenty of signs in the movie for that, which raises the question who the mother is. Ep 8 will surely answer that. Also Snoke....i expect explanations about him.As well as more on how Ben turned into Kylo Ren.
Not happy at all that Han Solo was killed off, but i read that Harrison Ford really didn't want to play Han Solo anymore and actually got a ton of money for this last role...so yeah...there's that. What i did like is how it happened. It seemed that Han was convincing his son to come back to him, but that clearly wasn't the case. Would have been rather odd as well, instead of acting like Darth Vader towards Luke, being...redeemed by him i guess, he simply kills off his father.
Absolutely can't wait for episode 8, but slightly afraid because it's a completely different director. I have no expectations for Rogue One, but that cast isn't half bad at all. But yeah, my only complaint would be that in several ways it's a rethread to ANH. It kinda could have done without that, or just not as much.
The Selonians hijacked Centerpoint Station and held Corellia hostage to make the galaxy bow to their demands.
There is your EU tidbit for the day.
Hellwarden
Member
MisterHero
Super Member
I was going to watch Creed again to appreciate a properly constructed new character but Star Wars completely dominated my theater. Too bad.
but watch Creed instead if you can!
The Librarian
Banned
That's good to hear! Though I'm not much of a Star Wars EU person if it's books/cartoons/comics/etc.
I mean, I'll buy the TFA art book eventually, and maybe Rey's journal, but that'll probably be the extent of my EU dive.
Union Carbine
Member
I still don't understand how the Republic's whole fleet could be gone. Did they say this in the movie (I don't remember)? What about all the ships patrolling the various systems, in deep space, on the frontiers, etc.? It makes no sense to me that they'd all be holed up in that one system.
hipsterpants
Member
Well people are talking about how she's a good character but idk, I'm getting flashbacks to RLM asking people to describe prequel characters and failing. She doesn't seem very interesting aside from being good at things (I'm not trying to drag the Mary Sue argument into this).
Lifejumper
Member
Movies that will inspire viii? https://mobile.twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/683756933929566208
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, Hux says something about it during his speech just before the weapon is fired.
Although it's fairly easy to write in like, a gunboat or someshit on an outpost somewhere that wasn't where it was supposed to be and thus escaped the attack.
Fuck it, have the Galactica roll in.
Well that explains why you're asking for someone to explain to you how to think about something.
That parenthetical kinda says the opposite, though.
What about her isn't interesting to you?
She's a plucky girl with a lot of tech skill and abandonment issues who really wants a family.
Saw it yesterday. Liked it more than I thought I would. Solid 7.5/10. I don't think I'll remember much of it a few months from now though.
Read this, liked it, thought I would share it: http://wrongquestions.blogspot.ca/2015/12/star-wars-force-awakens.html
It jives with me because
1.) Star Wars is also ??? to me. Also, its universe doesn't hold up to any nuanced scrutiny.
2.) Rey made the movie for me, even though she is awfully good at all things.
3.) Finn is great, even though his turn is just brushed aside.
4.) I am not interested in petulant, entitled brats and their arcs whatsoever.
5.) I hope they don't do a redemption arc. Patricide seems to be a crossed line for that.
6.) Lee Pace would have made this movie a billion times better.
Read this, liked it, thought I would share it: http://wrongquestions.blogspot.ca/2015/12/star-wars-force-awakens.html
It jives with me because
1.) Star Wars is also ??? to me. Also, its universe doesn't hold up to any nuanced scrutiny.
2.) Rey made the movie for me, even though she is awfully good at all things.
3.) Finn is great, even though his turn is just brushed aside.
4.) I am not interested in petulant, entitled brats and their arcs whatsoever.
5.) I hope they don't do a redemption arc. Patricide seems to be a crossed line for that.
6.) Lee Pace would have made this movie a billion times better.
The Librarian
Banned
Off the top of my head:
She's self-righteous
She can get indignant
She prefers to take care of herself
She has abandonment issues
Edit:
One more: She's very sure of herself.
You'd think the First Order would know better than to make their superweapon out of explodium yet again.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Looks like they filmed this in daylight and then used the same effect as in Fury Road to make it night:
Looks like a sound stage to me.
funkystudent
Member
I totally just see Rey doing the whole Luke arch in her movies.
Eventually Snoke and Kilo will try and turn her. She will get close to actually doing it but refuse at the last minute.
And Kilo will redeem himself in the end by nobily sacrificing himself to save someone Snoke is trying to kill.
Eventually Snoke and Kilo will try and turn her. She will get close to actually doing it but refuse at the last minute.
And Kilo will redeem himself in the end by nobily sacrificing himself to save someone Snoke is trying to kill.
Why do you want to like her?
Spring-Loaded
Member
Star Wars fans and their clinging to random, one-off throwaway characters, damn
I would really suggest TCW if you ever have the time or interest for it. Ahsoka has become one of the franchise's most beloved characters, even winning over the people who initially hated her. And there's way more female characters than ever before, with many in significant positions of power or storytelling importance. It's not perfect. There's certainly still a lot of more...traditional Star Wars stuff (sexualized female characters, some fridging, etc.) but it was the precursor to the Kennedy era and it shows that they were beginning to move in that direction.
Ahsoka herself though makes it worth it, I think.
edit: adjusted some sentence placement there that came out weird when I typed it the first time
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Or Kylo will remain unstable and freaked out, and he'll kill Snoke in his pursuit of power, and because Snoke is obviously full of shit about how to help him be a better Vader than Vader, so he'll just do it himself, without him, and there will be no redemption because he doesn't want it, and he hates that people want it for him.
the black pearl
Member
You could argue that her waiting for her parents is a weird form of loyalty.
The Librarian
Banned
That's true.
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