Support NeoGAF

[Bobby Roberts]

Her loyalty isn't even weird, honestly. It's a fairly strong part of her character. She strongly values the connections she makes, even when the strength of those connections isn't reciprocated. Which is why she's so won over when BB-8, Finn & Han DO reciprocate.

She wants to be a good friend to people.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Her loyalty isn't even weird, honestly. It's a fairly strong part of her character. She strongly values the connections she makes, even when the strength of those connections isn't reciprocated. Which is why she's so won over when BB-8, Finn & Han DO reciprocate.

She wants to be a good friend to people.

It's also the same reason why Finn warms up to her, too.. They're both looking for family and find it in each other.

 

[MMarston]

I totally just see Rey doing the whole Luke arch in her movies.

Eventually Snoke and Kilo will try and turn her. She will get close to actually doing it but refuse at the last minute.

And Kilo will redeem himself in the end by nobility sacrificing himself to save someone Snoke is trying to kill.

Doing this might - as in a 'big' might - be alright for me if they change some core values to it
Some examples from a long post I did in the last thread
- Instead of being keen to face Kylo again due to "I wanna save my friends!" like Luke in ESB, maybe have her do it solely out of pure selfish reasons like vengeance (e.g. the First Order killed my family maybe).
- On that note, have her suffer a truly permanent loss unlike the whole "we can save Han later." Even more interesting, have her be indirectly responsible for collateral losses which people will look down on her for. That way, she learns her lesson like Luke in ESB, but not without a very grave consequence that she is responsible for.

 

[Union Carbine]

Yeah, Hux says something about it during his speech just before the weapon is fired...

Here's more or less what Hux says:

Today is the end of the Republic! The end of a regime that acquiesces to disorder! At this very moment, in a system far from here the New Republic LIES to the GALAXY while secretly supporting the treachery of the loathsome Resistance. This fierce machine which you have built, upon which we stand, will bring an end to the Senate! To their cherished fleet! All remaining systems will bow to the First Order! And will remember this... as the last day of the Republic! (Bold mine.)

I guess I can read that as the entire fleet being there but it just doesn't make sense to me given that there ought to be Republic presence throughout their systems, etc. I mean, whose out there guarding the civilian shipping lanes against the Guavian Death Gang and Kanjiklub?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I guess I can read that as the entire fleet being there but it just doesn't make sense to me

It's one of the failings of the film that the political situation isn't very well explained.

 

[Comfort Jones]

You're being ridiculous comparing Rey to prequel characters. She's not a horribly deep character but it's there. Her backstory, while a little vague, clearly has informed how she acts in the present. She's basically Luke, arguably a lot more "competent" but still not a horribly different arc.

Important thing imo is they avoid all of these characters having the exact same arcs as the old characters which is definitely a fuck up I can see them making.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Important thing imo is they avoid all of these characters having the exact same arcs as the old characters which is definitely a fuck up I can see them making.

I don't see Rian Johnson sitting down in front of his computer and going "I'm gonna write Empire Strikes Back." I don't see these characters tracing those arcs.

 

[the black pearl]

It's a fairly strong part of her character. She strongly values the connections she makes, even when the strength of those connections isn't reciprocated. Which is why she's so won over when BB-8, Finn & Han DO reciprocate.

.

Agreed.

 

[Holiday]

Not that I want it to happen, but I don't see how Kylo is irredeemable, especially since Vader (at least where the story stands now) has commited more and worse atrocities.

Must be the Han love.

That said, most interesting option is Kylo doubling down on being a psycho.

 

[sphagnum]

Most of the fleet was destroyed by the Republic keeps the vast majority of it docked at the capital as a symbol of their trust in their constituent parts. Mothma's decision to demilitarize the Republic was done to show potential member states that they didn't want to become a new Empire, and so planetary defense is left up to the individual planets' militaries (although they get military funding from the NR). The fleet is the largest fleet in the galaxy but it's small compared to the fleet that the Empire had and it probably doesn't go around patrolling the galaxy all the time.

 

[Randdalf]

Movies that will inspire viii? https://mobile.twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/683756933929566208

Very interesting, I had to look these up on Wikipedia, uncultured as I am.

Twelve O'Clock High

Twelve O'Clock High is a 1949 American war film about aircrews in the United States Army's Eighth Air Force who flew daylight bombing missions against Nazi Germany and occupied France during the early days of American involvement in World War II, including a thinly disguised version of the notorious Black Thursday strike against Schweinfurt.

Letter Never Sent

Letter Never Sent is a 1959 Soviet adventure drama film. A guide and three geologists head to the boreal forest of central Siberia. After much strenuous effort and nearly running out of food, they succeed in finding diamonds in Bolshaya Zemlya. Before they can return, they are trapped by a forest fire that cuts them off from the canoe where their supplies are kept. Now the battle is to survive.

Episode VIII to be a film about war and adventure?

Spoiler

Who knew!?

 

[Fencedude]

The Selonians hijacked Centerpoint Station and held Corellia hostage to make the galaxy bow to their demands.

There is your EU tidbit for the day.

Centerpoint Station, of course, being a Space Station (at the centerpoint between a binary planet pair) that can blow up stars anywhere in the Galaxy.

Why are we complaining about Starkiller Base again?

 

[Sean C]

Here's more or less what Hux says: I guess I can read that as the entire fleet being there but it just doesn't make sense to me given that there ought to be Republic presence throughout their systems, etc. I mean, whose out there guarding the civilian shipping lanes against the Guavian Death Gang and Kanjiklub?

Well, there may be smaller patrol ships or whatever. When assaulting the Starkiller it's clearly the big battlecruisers that they need.

While the entire fleet shouldn't be in one location, if you had somehow used WMDs to blow up the British Isles circa 1900 you would have destroyed the Home Fleet, which was the main concentration of the Royal Navy. The other squadrons in the Mediterranean, Indian Ocean, etc. would pale by comparison.

 

[MMarston]

One interesting thing I thought of just now - what if we have Rey reject being a Jedi? I don't mean in a darkside heel-turn way, but in a "this isn't who I am" realization a la Ahsoka.

Have her do lightside her way basically.

 

[Arthea]

You're being ridiculous comparing Rey to prequel characters. She's not a horribly deep character but it's there. Her backstory, while a little vague, clearly has informed how she acts in the present. She's basically Luke, arguably a lot more "competent" but still not a horribly different arc.

Important thing imo is they avoid all of these characters having the exact same arcs as the old characters which is definitely a fuck up I can see them making.

I don't see her as Luke at all. Don't wanna start argument about Luke's character here, I had enough of that in the past, it's enough to say that she's not like Luke until proven otherwise.

And yeah, it's OK not to like her, I didn't like Luke or Anakin and survived just fine, and even finally got Rey for liking!

 

[sphagnum]

Not that I want it to happen, but I don't see how Kylo is irredeemable, especially since Vader (at least where the story stands now) has commited more and worse atrocities.

Must be the Han love.

That said, most interesting option is Kylo doubling down on being a psycho.

Vader and Kylo are already equal in terms of their evil quotient. Actually if anything, Kylo might be somewhat worse just because he wants to be Vader while Vader hates himself.

Vader: massacred the Jedi and killed children
Kylo: massacred the Jedi and probably killed children during that

Vader: party to planetary genocide
Kylo: party to planetary genocide

Vader: would have choked his wife to death if Obi-Wan hadn't stopped him
Kylo: literally killed his dad

 

[User 73706]

This movie is bad because it's too much like ANH, but it's also bad because it's not enough like ANH. Virtually zero redeeming qualities outside of being a movie. 11/10.

 

[sphagnum]

One interesting thing I thought of just now - what if we have Rey reject being a Jedi? I don't mean in a darkside heel-turn way, but in a "this isn't who I am" realization a la Ahsoka.

Have her do lightside her way basically.

I can't imagine Lucasfilm letting the Jedi die out. Sith, sure, because that was the intention with RotJ anyway, but the Jedi are one of the fundamental, bedrock elements of the franchise.

Unless Finn actually turns out to be Force sensitive and becomes a Jedi or something.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

One interesting thing I thought of just now - what if we have Rey reject being a Jedi? I don't mean in a darkside heel-turn way, but in a "this isn't who I am" realization a la Ahsoka.

Have her do lightside her way basically.

I think this is one of the directions this story HAS to go, thematically.

 

[Veelk]

Vader: would have choked his wife to death if Obi-Wan hadn't stopped him

Really, he's still pretty much responsible for Padme's death. It's just that while she survived the force choking, she died of a broken heart which, apparently, is an actual medical condition in the SW world.

 

[Arthea]

One interesting thing I thought of just now - what if we have Rey reject being a Jedi? I don't mean in a darkside heel-turn way, but in a "this isn't who I am" realization a la Ahsoka.

Have her do lightside her way basically.

but she already tried that (not accepting the saber), it didn't work quite like planned, although I can see her trying to pull that again even if it's very unlikely.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I think this is one of the directions this story HAS to go, thematically.

Why?

 

[Comfort Jones]

I don't see Rian Johnson sitting down in front of his computer and going "I'm gonna write Empire Strikes Back." I don't see these characters tracing those arcs.

Oh yeah for sure I'm optimistic, I phrased that a little poorly I suppose. I mean like, I can see the potential for them making that mistake but we'll see. While TFA definitely hit the same narrative beats as ANH I think the characters stood on their own and I'm excited to see that continue on.

That being said if Kylo goes good at the end and dies while saving Rey from Snoke I might actually give myself a concussion from the facepalm.

 

[Union Carbine]

Other than her parentage, which stands to be a major element of this trilogy, what exactly do people want to know about Rey that they didn't get that they feel holds her character back?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

That being said if Kylo goes good at the end and dies while saving Rey from Snoke I might actually give myself a concussion from the facepalm.

Nah, I get you, It's just I don't know - if you and I both see that such a throughline would be extremely unsatisfying, I can't imagine the guy in charge of actually writing those arcs wouldn't have also seen the same thing. Especially considering the previous examples of writing, which - quality levels being variable - aren't well known for going in the most obvious of directions.

 

[MMarston]

but she already tried that (not accepting the saber), it didn't work quite like planned, although I can see her trying to pull that again even if it's very unlikely.

No, in that moment she was like "fuuuuuuuuuuck this noise, I'm out of here."


I'm talking about a situation in which she pretty much disagrees that she can align with the interests of being a traditional Jedi, but still stand for good/justice. Basically, "just be her" if that makes sense.

 

[Holiday]

Vader and Kylo are already equal in terms of their evil quotient. Actually if anything, Kylo might be somewhat worse just because he wants to be Vader while Vader hates himself.

Vader: massacred the Jedi and killed children
Kylo: massacred the Jedi and probably killed children during that

Vader: party to planetary genocide
Kylo: party to planetary genocide

Vader: would have choked his wife to death if Obi-Wan hadn't stopped him
Kylo: literally killed his dad

Fair enough response, but I would probably put more emphasis on the years Vader spent as the main enforcer of the Empire. I guess a lot depends on the extent of Kylo's turn against Luke and whether he sheds his attraction to the light.

Either way good points.

EDIT: actually, the more I think about it, the more I agree with you, since the ROTJ presented patricide as a sure-thing for conversion to the dark side.

 

[Blue Lou]

Upon my second viewing, two minor things I noticed:

Han Solo looks angry for a split second when he hears the name Luke Skywalker
Ren simply looks on silently and motionless as the 5 beams blow up planets, suggesting to me he wasn't entirely at ease with the situation (compared to the trailer where he looks defiant as he looks on)

General Hux may be my favourite character.

Sidenote: Here's Domhall Gleeson being taught about the birds and bees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-xH3MHBvUE

 

[donny2112]

It's just that while she survived the force choking, she died of a broken heart which, apparently, is an actual medical condition in the SW world.

It's an actual medical condition in this world, too. Causes heart attack-like symptoms, IIRC.

Edit:
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Condi...rome-Real_UCM_448547_Article.jsp#.Vom-mvmzq24

 

[Veelk]

It's an actual medical condition in this world, too. Causes heart attack-like symptoms, IIRC.

Edit:
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Condi...rome-Real_UCM_448547_Article.jsp#.Vom-mvmzq24

If you're talking about Takotsubo cardiomyopathy, that produces actual medical conditions. The droid said "Medically, there is nothing wrong with her."

She literally died from emotions themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAxKsqkaRqQ

See? You'd think an advanced tech droid would notice something like critical heart failure.

 

[Arthea]

No, in that moment she was like "fuuuuuuuuuuck this noise, I'm out of here."


I'm talking about a situation in which she pretty much disagrees that she can align with the interests of being a traditional Jedi, but still stand for good/justice. Basically, "just be her" if that makes sense.

oh! I haven't thought about it quite like this. But wouldn't Luke refuse to teach her in that case? I'm not sure it can work given situation, but it's an interesting idea.
Also that aligns well with my point that no Sith should logically lead to no Jedi too. New Dark and Light Side orders introduced.

 

[Boke1879]

That's good to hear! Though I'm not much of a Star Wars EU person if it's books/cartoons/comics/etc.

I mean, I'll buy the TFA art book eventually, and maybe Rey's journal, but that'll probably be the extent of my EU dive.

If you have Netflix. Watch The Clone Wars if you ever have some free time. Not only for the reasons stated above but I really think they did a much better job of portraying Anakin better than in the movies.

 

[MMarston]

oh! I haven't thought about it quite like this. But wouldn't Luke refuse to teach her in that case? I'm not sure it can work given situation, but it's an interesting idea.

Oh, that's why I think it's better to do so after the fact. Have her be a keener first then make her realize it after training and going through some appropriate conflict.

 

[Arthea]

Upon my second viewing, two minor things I noticed:

Han Solo looks angry for a split second when he hears the name Luke Skywalker
Ren simply looks on silently and motionless as the 5 beams blow up planets, suggesting to me he wasn't entirely at ease with the situation (compared to the trailer where he looks defiant as he looks on)

General Hux may be my favourite character.

You would be angry too if not only he ruined your son (or let it happen), he ran away afterwards.

You are the second person that I hear this from.

Oh, that's why I think it's better to do so after the fact. Have her be a keener first then make her realize it after training and going through some appropriate conflict.

I can get behind this, given her character

 

[the black pearl]

If you have Netflix. Watch The Clone Wars if you ever have some free time. Not only for the reasons stated above but I really think they did a much better job of portraying Anakin better than in the movies.

That applies to the cg series, as well as the older, hand drawn one.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Not that I want it to happen, but I don't see how Kylo is irredeemable, especially since Vader (at least where the story stands now) has commited more and worse atrocities.

Must be the Han love.

That said, most interesting option is Kylo doubling down on being a psycho.

I can see Ren now being beyond redemption.

The choice that Ren made on the bridge for me is reminiscent of the choice Vader had to make in ROTJ. Family or the Dark Side. As the resulting choice ended up very different, I think it will lead to a very different story arc for Ren when compared to Anakins. Vader may have committed worse atrocities but it was in his family that he found redemption.

 

[Boke1879]

I fucking love Star Wars

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Has it been explained why they have different directors for the three movies and not have Abrams do them all? He made such a damn good movie in my opinion, truly brought SW back and i am sure the next one will be truly new...why not let him make em all?

 

[TheSadRanger]

That applies to the cg series, as well as the older, hand drawn one.

You mean that micro series that Gendy Tartatovsky did for cartoon network?

 

[GhaleonEB]

I do believe one of the earlier ideas for the film was something along these lines.

Oh, interesting! You can definitely see why they went the way they did--they wanted to amp up the tension, have some major action setpieces, and maybe parallel the original movies a little more closely--but it would've been cool to see that version too.

Interesting. And yeah, that would have solved some of the plotting issues with the last act, or at least given the story a better through line. Missed opportunity.

Has it been explained why they have different directors for the three movies and not have Abrams do them all? He made such a damn good movie in my opinion, truly brought SW back and i am sure the next one will be truly new...why not let him make em all?

He didn't want to do the second one (until reading the script, when it was too late). But they're taking the same approach as the OT and letting different directors put their stamp on the films.

 

[Holiday]

I can see Ren now being beyond redemption.

The choice that Ren made on the bridge for me is reminiscent of the choice Vader had to make in ROTJ. Family or the Dark Side. As the resulting choice ended up very different, I think it will lead to a very different story arc for Ren when compared to Anakins. Vader may have committed worse atrocities but it was in his family that he found redemption.

Yeah I think I've come around to agree, as Luke spared his father in order to stay good, and Kylo killed his to stay bad.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Has it been explained why they have different directors for the three movies and not have Abrams do them all? He made such a damn good movie in my opinion, truly brought SW back and i am sure the next one will be truly new...why not let him make em all?

They want a mainline film out every two years, which sorta necessitates either a) super-rushed production schedules with the same director or b) overlapping production schedules with different directors.

The fact Abrams didn't particularly like how fast he had to work this time (and that was with the extension he actually got) made it easier, I guess.

 

[Brakke]

Hux is great. Sneering at and bickering with Kylo, being good at his damn job, such malevolence. We have all these other characters who could kind of go any way next movie but then we got Hux the True Believer holding shit down, knowing what he wants.

 

[Arthea]

I agree with many posters before that Kylo is no longer redeemable. If he haven't killed Solo (somehow Solo turns to be alive, oh god no, not this, please) then maybe.

Hux is great. Sneering at and bickering with Kylo, being good at his damn job, such malevolence. We have all these other characters who could kind of go any way next movie but then we got Hux the True Believer holding shit down, knowing what he wants.

lol, but isn't it kinda boring, being so predictable I mean.

 

[Boke1879]

Has it been explained why they have different directors for the three movies and not have Abrams do them all? He made such a damn good movie in my opinion, truly brought SW back and i am sure the next one will be truly new...why not let him make em all?

They did the same thing with the Original Trilogy. Not really sure why but I would assume for different ideas/perspectives.

 

[the black pearl]

You mean that micro series that Gendy Tartatovsky did for cartoon network?

I think so. I remember at least, there being things that lended to anikin's deteriorating mental state.

(And Darth Grevious was so much more badass, too)

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I was sure Hux was going to die in this one. I like Gleeson so I'm glad he's sticking around. His speech was great.

 

[donny2112]

See? You'd think an advanced tech droid would notice something like critical heart failure.

Yeah, even if it was misdiagnosed as a heart attack, the droid should've seen something.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I was sure Hux was going to die in this one. I like Gleeson so I'm glad he's sticking around. His speech was great.

That was actually one of my bigger surprises: According to the callsheet spoilers, he was supposed to have gone down with Starkiller.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Interesting. And yeah, that would have solved some of the plotting issues with the last act, or at least given the story a better through line. Missed opportunity.


He didn't want to do the second one (until reading the script, when it was too late). But they're taking the same approach as the OT and letting different directors put their stamp on the films.

They want a mainline film out every two years, which sorta necessitates either a) super-rushed production schedules with the same director or b) overlapping production schedules with different directors.

The fact Abrams didn't particularly like how fast he had to work this time (and that was with the extension he actually got) made it easier, I guess.

They did the same thing with the Original Trilogy. Not really sure why but I would assume for different ideas/perspectives.

Thanks guys, good to know. I have to be honest, i never realized this was the case for the OT as well. Always thought that Lucas did them all. But then i am also not a hardcore SW fan. I just really dig the movies. Absolutely can't wait to see ep 8 and what happens next. Gonna look into the movies that director made, to kinda see what i can expect i guess. Also just found out the dude behind Monsters but also Godzilla (2014) makes Rogue One. Old news for ya'll no doubt....but...interestng.