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[Veelk]

Then the creator should convey the information better. With so many people missing information in TFA, it seems to me that the movie failed to convey the information effectively.

This is literally asking for the impossible, because it doesn't matter how clearly you convey the information, if people can get it wrong, people WILL get it wrong, and people can always get it wrong.

Hell, man, have you never played telephone? The problem isn't the outgoing signal. It's the faulty receiver.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

That's a whole lot of leaps to get to her being jedi trained by Luke. Her visions started at Cloud City and I didn't once think she was there. It felt more like a general "Force Vision" to me. Something along the lines of a visual representation of what OB1 would see in his mind when he says that he feels a "disturbance in the force".

As to her learning, I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "force skill download". The push and pull of their face off was VERY well communicated. You could see each moment of Rey learning and gaining confidence and an opposite moment of Ren loosing his grip on her mind. She put that learning experience together with the old tales of Jedi Mind Tricks and had the confidence to keep trying with nothing left to loose.

I didn't get that from the vision either, but plenty of people on this board and others did. To me the vision really only implies a more direct connection to Luke, and even that has enough wiggle-room they could easily write themselves out of it in Episode 8.

The place where we differ is that the interrogation scene and then the JMT scene do a good job of communicating she learned/downloaded anything from Kylo Ren. The interrogation scene does a good job of visually communicating a battle of wills, then she outright tells the audience she is reading his mind, but there is no real visual or verbal cue of much else.

Can I retroactively accept she force downloaded skills from Kylo Ren? Of course, it's a sci-fi movie with space-magic, but the scene as presented, doesn't give the audience much (or anything) to go on.

 

[heliosRAzi]

This is literally asking for the impossible, because it doesn't matter how clearly you convey the information, if people can get it wrong, people WILL get it wrong, and people can always get it wrong.

Of course people will get it wrong, but it shouldn't be to the extent where people need to have multiple viewings to fully understand a Star Wars movie.

People can watch ANH once and get everything they need to enjoy the flick. They do it with Snatch, Die Hard, Kill Bill, countless of comedies and dramas and so on.

 

[Veelk]

Of course people will get it wrong, but it shouldn't be to the extent where people need to have multiple viewings to fully understand a Star Wars movie.

People can watch ANH once and get everything they need to enjoy the flick. They do it with Snatch, Die Hard, Kill Bill, countless of comedies and dramas and so on.

And considering that the movie rests in the 90's with a great amount of acclaim, both from critics and fans, it's clear that people, as a whole, did get everything they needed out of the first viewing. The Mary Sue critics, on the other hand, are a vocal minority most of whose questions could be answered upon a second and more critical viewing of the film, as this and other threads have gone round and round in saying. Answers are in the film. It's not the film's fault they didn't get them the first time around.

 

[jelly]

Only annoying thing about the new Death Star is that it is even more massive than previous ones, can still move (so requiring crazy amounts of energy), yet was built by a weaker empire, no longer at full strength? Just seems unlikely. Also even though they defeated it, it still sucked up the sun from the system. So now there is a new sun where star killer base was - won't that fuck everything up in the system anyway as the system's star has now moved.

There is only one reason, how do we get rid of the republic and their fleet to level or turn the tables without coming up with a big space battle or something which we don't have time for. That's all JJ and Lucasfilm wanted, they needed it gone immediately without effort. It totally sucked but they took one for the franchise going forward. I don't think prequel politics or grand space battles day one were interesting to them. It's a very crap way to go about it but clear as day the reasoning for it.

 

[heliosRAzi]

And considering that the movie rests in the 90's with a great amount of acclaim, both from critics and fans, it's clear that people, as a whole, did get everything they needed out of the first viewing. The Mary Sue critics, on the other hand, are a vocal minority most of whose questions could be answered upon a second and more critical viewing of the film, as this and other threads have gone round and round in saying. Answers are in the film. It's not the film's fault they didn't get them the first time around.

People have taken a critical eye at it and it falls apart for them. It's not their fault; it's the film's. If someone doesn't pick up on vital information on their first time despite them paying attention, it is the film's fault.

Blaming the viewer is not something filmmakers do when something fails. People paid money to go see these movies -- they're going to pay attention. It is then the creator's job to entertain them, convey necessary information, and keep their attention. People have a hard time with Rey's Force potential, draw attention to it when she's flying the Falcon. People have a hard time caring about Hosnian, convey its importance better. Make Kylo's injury more visible, not in the sense that it could be spewing out blood, but have Rey's tactics shift to take advantage of his injury. She can keep attacking him on his bad side. Hell, when she gets her powerup, she could knee him in his wound. Hell, have it tie into her being tempted by the Dark Side.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

People have taken a critical eye at it and it falls apart for them.

What you're describing and what you, personally, have been doing in this thread for the past week is not the same thing.

There's acknowledging the film's faults (which even people who have praised the film have done) and then there's... whatever you've been doing the past week. To the point where you imagined an entire draft (or series of drafts) to "explain" how things ended up the way they did.

We've gone beyond criticism here. This isn't just about identifying the film's flaws and discussing how they do or don't get in the way of the film's forward progression anymore. It's more about people recognizing your "fixes" for the movie, many of which don't actually fix anything that needs fixing, but tends to be specifically aimed at diminishing the positive aspects of a couple characters because you dont' feel them to be "earned" enough.

This film's editing decisions make for a jumpy experience past the hour mark, and it shallows out the film's intended depth. But it's not as if many of the film's problems aren't at the least addressed in the text itself, even if that text goes whizzing by with no elaboration on the way to its spinning (that's a good trick) ending.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

Got done watching the movie. First SW movie I ever watched, so some things I had no idea happened in the universe of SW:
- Different planets and different alien species. For some reason I never thought that was a thing in Star Wars. I thought it was some lame Darth Vader vs Luke Skywalker dad vs son kinda deal
- Harrison Ford had a prominent role in the series
- It had rich and enjoyable characters
- It had rich and diverse environments

Overall I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. In the beginning I was a little lost, and I admit that I was a little lost in some of the story when they referenced stuff, but I think I got more than enough as a standalone experience. I want to go ahead and watch the other six movies whenever I can rent them or have them on netflix (they are all 20 bucks a pop now on google, itunes, amazon, or psn). A couple of quick questions, without trying to spoil myself for the other movies:

- Is there a purpose to the stormtroopers' suits? I mean it doesn't defend them from the lasers, so not sure if they have any functional purpose (I know this is nitpicking)
- I am guessing Hans Solo dying was a big deal?

 

[funkystudent]

Read they actually got ewan mcgregor to record a few new lines for that Kenobi vision scene and it wasn't just edited old stuff

That is cool.


I do need to try watch this again while it's still in the cinema. I heard Alec guineas in that scene but somehow missed Ewan in all the hub bub.

 

[Angel_DvA]

I don't understand why he cut this scene when Ren look so bad ass, this moment was in the movie anyway, that doesn't make sense...

 

[MMarston]

- Is there a purpose to the stormtroopers' suits? I mean it doesn't defend them from the lasers, so not sure if they have any functional purpose (I know this is nitpicking)
- I am guessing Hans Solo dying was a big deal?

- Welcome to Stormtroopers 101 lol
- Yes, he plays a major role for the good guys in the OT

 

[Einchy]

I don't understand why he cut this scene when Ren look so bad ass, this moment was in the movie anyway, that doesn't make sense...

Yeah, I wish they could have edited the movie to be able to have that scene in there. It's such a cool moment.

Got done watching the movie. First SW movie I ever watched, so some things I had no idea happened in the universe of SW:
- Different planets and different alien species. For some reason I never thought that was a thing in Star Wars. I thought it was some lame Darth Vader vs Luke Skywalker dad vs son kinda deal
- Harrison Ford had a prominent role in the series
- It had rich and enjoyable characters
- It had rich and diverse environments

Overall I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. In the beginning I was a little lost, and I admit that I was a little lost in some of the story when they referenced stuff, but I think I got more than enough as a standalone experience. I want to go ahead and watch the other six movies whenever I can rent them or have them on netflix (they are all 20 bucks a pop now on google, itunes, amazon, or psn). A couple of quick questions, without trying to spoil myself for the other movies:

- Is there a purpose to the stormtroopers' suits? I mean it doesn't defend them from the lasers, so not sure if they have any functional purpose (I know this is nitpicking)
- I am guessing Hans Solo dying was a big deal?

What country are you from? It sounds like SW isn't a big deal where you're from.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

- Welcome to Stormtroopers 101 lol
- Yes, he plays a major role for the good guys in the OT

Awww lol so it's just one of those things you have to accept

Yeah, I wish they could have edited the movie to be able to have that scene in there. It's such a cool moment.



What country are you from? It sounds like SW isn't a big deal where you're from.

USA lol I just simply never got into it.

 

[sphagnum]

Got done watching the movie. First SW movie I ever watched, so some things I had no idea happened in the universe of SW:
- Different planets and different alien species. For some reason I never thought that was a thing in Star Wars. I thought it was some lame Darth Vader vs Luke Skywalker dad vs son kinda deal

The Darth Vader/Luke Skywalker relationship is one of the lynchpins of the series, because ultimately Star Wars is a family drama, but it uses the backdrop of galactic wars (the precise term is that it's a "space opera"). Half the appeal of Star Wars is all the stuff in the galaxy. So if the family drama ends up not appealing to you, there's still so much more stuff going on to keep you watching.

- Is there a purpose to the stormtroopers' suits? I mean it doesn't defend them from the lasers, so not sure if they have any functional purpose (I know this is nitpicking)
- I am guessing Hans Solo dying was a big deal?

-They look cool but they're the goon villains so they have to die easily
-He was one of the main three characters in the original trilogy.

I assume you're aware of the general difference between the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy?

 

[heliosRAzi]

There's acknowledging the film's faults (which even people who have praised the film have done) and then there's... whatever you've been doing the past week. To the point where you imagined an entire draft (or series of drafts) to "explain" how things ended up the way they did.

Do you know the filmmaking process? Screenplays can go through numerous drafts from conception until shooting ends. Sometimes, it gets rewritten for reshoots. The original draft has Luke appearing in the middle of the movie. We already know that Poe was supposed to die somewhere in the beginning.

All I was saying is that "hey, this part seems like it's from a different draft." I will have no way of knowing if it's true or not unless I get a hold of any older drafts, which I doubt will happen. It's just a gut feeling and that's it.

We've gone beyond criticism here. This isn't just about identifying the film's flaws and discussing how they do or don't get in the way of the film's forward progression anymore. It's more about people recognizing your "fixes" for the movie, many of which don't actually fix anything that needs fixing, but tends to be specifically aimed at diminishing the positive aspects of a couple characters because you dont' feel them to be "earned" enough.

LOL, I don't want to diminish the positive aspects of characters. Far from it. IMO, and this always just been my opinion, I just wanted them to be more interesting and I post ways that I think might work. "I felt that Rey seems rushed, here's why. It would've been interesting if Finn showed some hesitation. Lets introduce some complexity to the series. It'll be fun," stuff like that. You don't agree with those, fine. You don't have to.

 

[Yoshichan]

I don't understand why he cut this scene when Ren look so bad ass, this moment was in the movie anyway, that doesn't make sense...

Who was he supposed to intimidate in that scene?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Do you know the filmmaking process?

Yes.

You've been told already that there isn't a version of this script where Poe Dameron flies the Millennium Falcon.

You're basically writing fanfiction at this point, man.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

The death of Han Solo gave me a bad after-taste. Not because of Han dying, but because of Chewie losing him.

Chewie

 

[heliosRAzi]

You've been told already that there isn't a version of this script where Poe Dameron flies the Millennium Falcon.

How do you know? You can't definitively say there is or isn't because we don't have access to those drafts. And if you did know the process, you'd know that characters get swapped and switched all of the time. An Exec could read a draft and tell the writer to do something else with this character.

And all I was saying is that I had a gut feeling. I know it can't be proved true or not.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

How do you know? You can't definitively say there is or isn't because we don't have access to those drafts.

Sure I can.

Just because you don't know what you're talking about doesn't mean I don't.

 

[Grover Cleveland]

Who was he supposed to intimidate in that scene?

It's Rey's vision just with the camera placed behind Kylo instead of just hearing his lightsaber activate from offscreen (like in the movie).

 

[Angel_DvA]

Who was he supposed to intimidate in that scene?

They probably didn't want to spoiled too much with Finn and Rey but imagine the same scene with R&F in front of him, would have been perfect, 10/10.

The body language in this scene is perfect.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Sure I can.

Just because you don't know what you're talking about doesn't mean I don't.

Dude, if you got access to them drafts, hook me up. I'd love to read them.

 

[QuantumZebra]

People have taken a critical eye at it and it falls apart for them. It's not their fault; it's the film's. If someone doesn't pick up on vital information on their first time despite them paying attention, it is the film's fault.

Blaming the viewer is not something filmmakers do when something fails. People paid money to go see these movies -- they're going to pay attention. It is then the creator's job to entertain them, convey necessary information, and keep their attention. People have a hard time with Rey's Force potential, draw attention to it when she's flying the Falcon. People have a hard time caring about Hosnian, convey its importance better. Make Kylo's injury more visible, not in the sense that it could be spewing out blood, but have Rey's tactics shift to take advantage of his injury. She can keep attacking him on his bad side. Hell, when she gets her powerup, she could knee him in his wound. Hell, have it tie into her being tempted by the Dark Side.

You're on some very odd, hyper-critical mission to point out completely unnecessary edits and changes to this movie that you feel = "taking a critical eye to it"

No one else in the past threads nor this one has been as far off on planet 9 as you concerning this movie.

 

[macfoshizzle]

I'm pretty convinced Rey's Han and Leia's daughter. Here is why..

Rey is clearly a Skywalker. But she's not Luke's daughter(Jedi's can't marry). I'm convinced she's Han and Leia's daughter. Hey spunkyness she gets from Han. Her strong will comes from Leia. The way Han, Leia, and even Chewie reacts to her. When Maz asks who is the girl, they cut out of that scene immediately. Clearly Han already knows who she is. The only way she can get those visions when touching Luke's light saber can only be a Skywalker family. Kylo doesn't know about her. Possible that is why she was also able to look into Kylo's thoughts and feelings so easily. They hid her at Jakku and Luke planned this all along.

 

[Blader]

I don't understand why he cut this scene when Ren look so bad ass, this moment was in the movie anyway, that doesn't make sense...

Because this is a "look at how cool and different this lightsaber is!" shot. Which, two hours into the movie, doesn't really make sense to have anymore.

 

[MMarston]

I'm pretty convinced Rey's Han and Leia's daughter. Here is why..

Rey is clearly a Skywalker. But she's not Luke's daughter(Jedi's can't marry). I'm convinced she's Han and Leia's daughter. Hey spunkyness she gets from Han. Her strong will comes from Leia. The way Han, Leia, and even Chewie reacts to her. When Maz asks who is the girl, they cut out of that scene immediately. Clearly Han already knows who she is. The only way she can get those visions when touching Luke's light saber can only be a Skywalker family. Kylo doesn't know about her. Possible that is why she was also able to look into Kylo's thoughts and feelings so easily. They hid her at Jakku and Luke planned this all along.

Finn: "THEY TOOK REY!"

Han: "yeah ok thumbsup"

 

[Moosichu]

I'm pretty convinced Rey's Han and Leia's daughter. Here is why..

Rey is clearly a Skywalker. But she's not Luke's daughter(Jedi's can't marry). I'm convinced she's Han and Leia's daughter. Hey spunkyness she gets from Han. Her strong will comes from Leia. The way Han, Leia, and even Chewie reacts to her. When Maz asks who is the girl, they cut out of that scene immediately. Clearly Han already knows who she is. The only way she can get those visions when touching Luke's light saber can only be a Skywalker family. Kylo doesn't know about her. Possible that is why she was also able to look into Kylo's thoughts and feelings so easily. They hid her at Jakku and Luke planned this all along.

The bolded is a bit of a leap to make in a fictional space magic world.

 

[The Librarian]

I'm pretty convinced Rey's Han and Leia's daughter. Here is why..

Rey is clearly a Skywalker. But she's not Luke's daughter(Jedi's can't marry). I'm convinced she's Han and Leia's daughter. Hey spunkyness she gets from Han. Her strong will comes from Leia. The way Han, Leia, and even Chewie reacts to her. When Maz asks who is the girl, they cut out of that scene immediately. Clearly Han already knows who she is. The only way she can get those visions when touching Luke's light saber can only be a Skywalker family. Kylo doesn't know about her. Possible that is why she was also able to look into Kylo's thoughts and feelings so easily. They hid her at Jakku and Luke planned this all along.

She's not Han and Leia's. Leia doesn't act like she knows who Rey is.

 

[The Librarian]

Since "Jedi not being able to marry" is a PT rule, has it been confirmed or not whether the RT will follow this regulation? Or just ignore it?

 

[Veelk]

People have taken a critical eye at it and it falls apart for them. It's not their fault; it's the film's. If someone doesn't pick up on vital information on their first time despite them paying attention, it is the film's fault.

I'm not even sure what point you are making here, because TFA wildly critically successful with vast majority of the audience. It's got a 94% on rottentomato's, and a 90% user review. So, as far as conveying what it needs to, it seems it does exactly that. The extreme vocal minority that brings up 'issues' that are actually answered within the film if they paid more attention are the minority, but either ignore that or otherwise maintain that the fact that they perceived a problem that isn't actually there under closer scrutiny is a problem in itself.

No, that's absurd. The film isn't wrong because they're confused due to not paying enough attention. They're wrong because they didn't pay attention. They know they have questions, but aren't looking hard enough to find them. That is the opposite of taking a critical eye to it.

How do you know? You can't definitively say there is or isn't because we don't have access to those drafts. And if you did know the process, you'd know that characters get swapped and switched all of the time. An Exec could read a draft and tell the writer to do something else with this character.

And all I was saying is that I had a gut feeling. I know it can't be proved true or not.

I think there is a draft where Poe was a Klingon Warrior from Planet Gallifrey who studied magic in Hogwarts until the Chandrian killed his family. Lets criticize the film for editing that out because you can't prove there wasn't a version of that script in the rewrites.

Come on, man.

 

[Boke1879]

The death of Han Solo gave me a bad after-taste. Not because of Han dying, but because of Chewie losing him.

Chewie

 

[Zabka]

I'm pretty convinced Rey's Han and Leia's daughter. Here is why..

Rey is clearly a Skywalker. But she's not Luke's daughter(Jedi's can't marry). I'm convinced she's Han and Leia's daughter. Hey spunkyness she gets from Han. Her strong will comes from Leia. The way Han, Leia, and even Chewie reacts to her. When Maz asks who is the girl, they cut out of that scene immediately. Clearly Han already knows who she is. The only way she can get those visions when touching Luke's light saber can only be a Skywalker family. Kylo doesn't know about her. Possible that is why she was also able to look into Kylo's thoughts and feelings so easily. They hid her at Jakku and Luke planned this all along.

That was the old Jedi order. The new Jedi order is dedicated to laying pipe across the galaxy. I could tell by the swingers' robe Luke is wearing at the end that more about this was cut from an earlier draft.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Since "Jedi not being able to marry" is a PT rule, has it been confirmed or not whether the RT will follow this regulation? Or just ignore it?

The Jedi are extinct now so who would even care?

They're more or less ignoring the PT anyways now, which is good because you know we all need someone to measure Rey's midichlorian count to see if that's why she's able to pilot the Falcon so well amirite.

 

[Boke1879]

Since "Jedi not being able to marry" is a PT rule, has it been confirmed or not whether the RT will follow this regulation? Or just ignore it?

I have no idea. Admittedly it's a stupid rule but I can see jedi just deciding for themselves. Being a Jedi is a pretty big commitment.

 

[JaseMath]

Because this is a "look at how cool and different this lightsaber is!" shot. Which, two hours into the movie, doesn't really make sense to have anymore.

No, it's not. In the context of the trailer sure, but it would've had a completely different meaning if inserted into the scene. They should've kept it in; it could've been iconic.

 

[sphagnum]

Since "Jedi not being able to marry" is a PT rule, has it been confirmed or not whether the RT will follow this regulation? Or just ignore it?

Nobody knows yet, but it's a safe bet that the Luke won't follow that rule. It's fairly well accepted that the no-attachments-rule was something done to show that the Jedi were out of touch and partially responsible for Anakin's fall. Luke overcomes Palpatine through his attachment to his father and achieves a greater understanding of the Force.

It's not that he'd ignore it, it's that he would negate it.

 

[Jeevesmeister]

I feel like this movie is a gigantic sham in that they showing you the same shit you saw in the Original Trilogy on such a rapid fire basis that they have no basis for charging you full price. It's literally every five minutes there's some shoehorned throwback, that by the time they throw in the fucking Trench Run I was about ready to walk out of the theater. Really, you can go down the list here:

-There's another shadowy Emperor type
-There's another "Rebellion"
-There's another Boba Fett esque character
-An extended throwback to the ROTJ scene where Wedge & Lando fly through the Death Star II
-A throwback to the Trench Run
-The throwback to the weird space chess game on the Millennium Falcon
-Look! Luke's helmet!
-They made a new X-Wing and it just looks bad
-Rey is another Luke with half the character development and none of the arc that made Luke so endearing as he outgrew his brattyness
-They fucked up a perfectly good Star Destroyer just to make it bigger, badder, and lame
-Starkiller is a bigger, badder, and infinitely lamer Death Star even though this makes thematically zero sense, especially after the scenes in Return of the Jedi between the Emperor, Vader, and the Imperial Leadership that show the Empire on the fritz
-Is it ever explained the significance of Luke Skywalker's lightsaber? Is it something like "nobody knows how to make lightsabers hence why Kylo's is all shitty" or is this just a cheesy ass macguffin.
-Countless other throwbacks to the Original Trilogy which feels way too much like a fan film, that it overshadows the quality of the actually original material i.e. Finn, or old man Han.
-Worst of all, all of the gains of the Original Trilogy are immediately wiped by obliterating Coruscant and the New Republic that it makes them entirely pointless

It was really depressing, because I had just shown the Despecialized Editions to my friend who had never seen Star Wars before, and it pretty much ruined Force Awakens for them. It's a competent film in a vacuum, but as a direct sequel to Return of the Jedi, it's just so weak in so many of the same ways Abrams shit all over Star Trek in Into Darkness, with the butchering of Khan as a character and the bigger, badder, and infinitely lamer USS Enterprise that was a stealth military ship that could operate on a skeleton crew blah blah blah.

Really depressing to see people outright lap it up because it has a huge marketing push behind it and the playing off of nostalgia. When the years go by and we get some real distance from this film, people will be a hell of a lot more soured on this movie. Not to the degree of the Prequels, as this was actually a competent film, but this one is just so fucking afraid of getting away from the Original Trilogy that it's goddamn cowardice. So much is being told through external "official canon" approved by a corporate entity in the "Lucasfilm Story Group" that it just feels dry and creatively dead.

This is just Star Wars for the sake of more Star Wars.

 

[Boke1879]

The Jedi are extinct now so who would even care?

They're more or less ignoring the PT anyways now, which is good because you know we all need someone to measure Rey's midichlorian count to see if that's why she's able to pilot the Falcon so well amirite.

The PT isn't being ignored just there probably will be less references to them seeing as this is direct continuation after Episode 6.

But yea we don't know about the marriage/having attachments rule. I'm sure Luke would base his teachings on what he learned from Kenobi and Yoda. Although he did defy them. They thought the only way to stop Vader and the Emperor was for Luke to kill Vader.

Clearly Luke was able to turn Vader back. So that itself shows Yoda and Kenobi were stuck in some old way of thinking.

 

[Shuggananas]

I don't understand why he cut this scene when Ren look so bad ass, this moment was in the movie anyway, that doesn't make sense...

he doesn't have the hood/mask for that fight in the movie

 

[Bobby Roberts]

It was really depressing, because I had just shown the Despecialized Editions to my friend who had never seen Star Wars before, and it pretty much ruined Force Awakens for them.

So being a hardcore Star Wars fan ended up being more of a deterrent to enjoying the film than for more casual or non-fans?

I wonder where that thesis was first presented...

it's just so weak in so many of the same ways Abrams shit all over Star Trek in Into Darkness, with the butchering of Khan as a character and the bigger, badder, and infinitely lamer USS Enterprise that was a stealth military ship that could operate on a skeleton crew blah blah blah.

This is kind of a reach, though, and not only because Khan's character wasn't really "butchered" at all, but because it's fairly obvious the film is running with the playbook Abrams ran when he made the first Star Trek, not its sequel. Especially if you can spot the Star Wars references, considering Star Trek 09 was ALSO relying heavily on Star Wars as a blueprint.

This is the second time he's remade the Original Trilogy in a movie. It's just that this is the first one to have the words Star Wars on it.

Also, you were so busy counting the outrageous similarities you appear to have missed a fair amount of things that added to the misunderstandings you're complaining about as well as the legitimate gripes. Half of your list is more or less incorrect, period.

 

[The Librarian]

This is just Star Wars for the sake of more Star Wars.

It's not, really. This film treats its female characters better than any other Star Wars film. That alone makes it a worthy entry to the franchise.

 

[bigwinnerx]

I feel like this movie is a gigantic sham in that they showing you the same shit you saw in the Original Trilogy on such a rapid fire basis that they have no basis for charging you full price. It's literally every five minutes there's some shoehorned throwback, that by the time they throw in the fucking Trench Run I was about ready to walk out of the theater. Really, you can go down the list here:

-There's another shadowy Emperor type
-There's another "Rebellion"
-There's another Boba Fett esque character
-An extended throwback to the ROTJ scene where Wedge & Lando fly through the Death Star II
-A throwback to the Trench Run
-The throwback to the weird space chess game on the Millennium Falcon
-Look! Luke's helmet!
-They made a new X-Wing and it just looks bad
-Rey is another Luke with half the character development and none of the arc that made Luke so endearing as he outgrew his brattyness
-They fucked up a perfectly good Star Destroyer just to make it bigger, badder, and lame
-Starkiller is a bigger, badder, and infinitely lamer Death Star even though this makes thematically zero sense, especially after the scenes in Return of the Jedi between the Emperor, Vader, and the Imperial Leadership that show the Empire on the fritz
-Is it ever explained the significance of Luke Skywalker's lightsaber? Is it something like "nobody knows how to make lightsabers hence why Kylo's is all shitty" or is this just a cheesy ass macguffin.
-Countless other throwbacks to the Original Trilogy which feels way too much like a fan film, that it overshadows the quality of the actually original material i.e. Finn, or old man Han.
-Worst of all, all of the gains of the Original Trilogy are immediately wiped by obliterating Coruscant and the New Republic that it makes them entirely pointless

It was really depressing, because I had just shown the Despecialized Editions to my friend who had never seen Star Wars before, and it pretty much ruined Force Awakens for them. It's a competent film in a vacuum, but as a direct sequel to Return of the Jedi, it's just so weak in so many of the same ways Abrams shit all over Star Trek in Into Darkness, with the butchering of Khan as a character and the bigger, badder, and infinitely lamer USS Enterprise that was a stealth military ship that could operate on a skeleton crew blah blah blah.

Really depressing to see people outright lap it up because it has a huge marketing push behind it and the playing off of nostalgia. When the years go by and we get some real distance from this film, people will be a hell of a lot more soured on this movie. Not to the degree of the Prequels, as these were actually competent films, but this one is just so fucking afraid of getting away from the Original Trilogy that it's goddamn cowardice. So much is being told through external "official canon" approved by a corporate entity in the "Lucasfilm Story Group" that it just feels dry and creatively dead.

This is just Star Wars for the sake of more Star Wars.

Seeing it a 5th time with my kids this weekend. Can't wait!

 

[True Savior]

This is just Star Wars for the sake of more Star Wars.

It's not Star Wars. It's fan fic from Star Wars fans to emulate the original work of George Lucas.

 

[Boke1879]

I feel like this movie is a gigantic sham in that they showing you the same shit you saw in the Original Trilogy on such a rapid fire basis that they have no basis for charging you full price. It's literally every five minutes there's some shoehorned throwback, that by the time they throw in the fucking Trench Run I was about ready to walk out of the theater. Really, you can go down the list here:

-There's another shadowy Emperor type
-There's another "Rebellion"
-There's another Boba Fett esque character
-An extended throwback to the ROTJ scene where Wedge & Lando fly through the Death Star II
-A throwback to the Trench Run
-The throwback to the weird space chess game on the Millennium Falcon
-Look! Luke's helmet!
-They made a new X-Wing and it just looks bad
-Rey is another Luke with half the character development and none of the arc that made Luke so endearing as he outgrew his brattyness
-They fucked up a perfectly good Star Destroyer just to make it bigger, badder, and lame
-Starkiller is a bigger, badder, and infinitely lamer Death Star even though this makes thematically zero sense, especially after the scenes in Return of the Jedi between the Emperor, Vader, and the Imperial Leadership that show the Empire on the fritz
-Is it ever explained the significance of Luke Skywalker's lightsaber? Is it something like "nobody knows how to make lightsabers hence why Kylo's is all shitty" or is this just a cheesy ass macguffin.
-Countless other throwbacks to the Original Trilogy which feels way too much like a fan film, that it overshadows the quality of the actually original material i.e. Finn, or old man Han.
-Worst of all, all of the gains of the Original Trilogy are immediately wiped by obliterating Coruscant and the New Republic that it makes them entirely pointless

It was really depressing, because I had just shown the Despecialized Editions to my friend who had never seen Star Wars before, and it pretty much ruined Force Awakens for them. It's a competent film in a vacuum, but as a direct sequel to Return of the Jedi, it's just so weak in so many of the same ways Abrams shit all over Star Trek in Into Darkness, with the butchering of Khan as a character and the bigger, badder, and infinitely lamer USS Enterprise that was a stealth military ship that could operate on a skeleton crew blah blah blah.

Really depressing to see people outright lap it up because it has a huge marketing push behind it and the playing off of nostalgia. When the years go by and we get some real distance from this film, people will be a hell of a lot more soured on this movie. Not to the degree of the Prequels, as these were actually competent films, but this one is just so fucking afraid of getting away from the Original Trilogy that it's goddamn cowardice. So much is being told through external "official canon" approved by a corporate entity in the "Lucasfilm Story Group" that it just feels dry and creatively dead.

This is just Star Wars for the sake of more Star Wars.

Luke didn't outgrow his "brattyness" until damn near the end of Empire. The 2nd movie in a trilogy.

Sure there are callbacks but people still want to parrot around that this is a 1:1 remake of ANH. It calls back to each movie in the OT but it's still very much a sequel and it stands on it's own.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

-Look! Luke's helmet!

The one Rey had? That's not Luke's.

 

[Jeevesmeister]

It's not, really. This film treats its female characters better than any other Star Wars film. That alone makes it a worthy entry to the franchise.

Feminist liberation from thousands of years of sexist oppression will not come from billion dollar corporations, my friend.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

It's not Star Wars. It's fan fic from Star Wars fans to emulate the original work of George Lucas.

Jesus.

Feminist liberation from thousands of years of sexist oppression will not come from billion dollar corporations, my friend.

Jeee-zus.

 

[Boke1879]

Feminist liberation from thousands of years of sexist oppression will not come from billion dollar corporations, my friend.

Who even said all that? All she said was they are taking a female lead seriously for once.

 

[Digital-Hero]

I don't understand why he cut this scene when Ren look so bad ass, this moment was in the movie anyway, that doesn't make sense...

Kylo was hurt and without his mask. The scene doesn't fit and was cut.

- He had taken off his mask before he killed his daddy.
- He was shot in the abdomen. He is clearly uninjured here.