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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
EviLore himself posting shitty memes. https://www.kickstarter.com/project...rpg/comments?cursor=12178883#comment-12178882
excelsiorlef
Member
Everything that isn't the movies (and maybe the novelizations of the movies but that's probably EU too) is EU, EU doesn't mean non canon it means Expanded Universe.
Eu is great for fleshing out the universe but not relevant when talking about how Star Wars treats women in the movies.
Would legit buy it if it had Rey in it. A bit more meaningful a moment. Guess they are still trying to hide spoilers
Not really, everything now that is coming out after the movies are canon. Meaning new books,shows,games etc. all the old stuff is now Legend
Edit: nvm I see what you were explaing
My guess is since Rey was in poster one, they needed a poster that had Finn in it to round out the cast.
Poster 1: Rey
Poster 2: Poe?
Poster 3: Phasma
Poster 4: Kylo & Finn
excelsiorlef
Member
Canon doesn't make it not EU.
The movies are still the king and everything else an expansion.
We have a new smaller canonical EU now that's all, it's still EU
Edit: just saw your edit, s'all good.
This is the marketing situation, but in reality the movies take precedence and all the books, novels, shows etc. are constructed around the movies.
So I just wanted to pop-in again and say I watched the movie for a third time last weekend, my initial feelings haven't changed my my brother came out feeling that the movie had actually gotten worse on his 3rd viewing ranking it a 6/10, I find that a bit harsh though.
Any who, I do want to say that I just realized that I haven't heard many people discussing how Ren killing Han Solo essentially makes him stronger/surpass Vader who he worships. The whole idea is that Vader turned to the Light Side in a single moment of weakness in which he was unable to kill his son and Luke, in turn, resisted his fall to the Dark Side by refusing to kill his father. Ren by killing Han Solo has just proven, at least to himself, that he is more committed to the Dark Side (and thus stronger for it) than either of his other family members. He wont "fall" to the Light the same way Vader did.
Any who, I do want to say that I just realized that I haven't heard many people discussing how Ren killing Han Solo essentially makes him stronger/surpass Vader who he worships. The whole idea is that Vader turned to the Light Side in a single moment of weakness in which he was unable to kill his son and Luke, in turn, resisted his fall to the Dark Side by refusing to kill his father. Ren by killing Han Solo has just proven, at least to himself, that he is more committed to the Dark Side (and thus stronger for it) than either of his other family members. He wont "fall" to the Light the same way Vader did.
Nostremitus
Member
No... The Expanded Universe includes all licensed Star Wars materials that are not the films, the Clone Wars movie and series, or the Rebels series.
The Clone Wars and Rebels have never been part of the EU or "Legends."
excelsiorlef
Member
Great fine, you win on some pedantic technicality but the series is still not on the same level of importance as the movies and still isn't bloody relevant to anything I was talking about/
Ehhh, before seeing the movie I thought she was going to be Ms. Boba Fett, but that might not be a bad alternative, although it'd likely rub people the wrong way.
Heh, I thought that was sort of funny, I think it makes sense with the Stormtroopers but even Kylo Ren called him "TRAITOR!".
Count Dookkake
Member
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Lights and Waves
Member
I saw it for a third time this weekend, in IMAX 3D. I'm more in love than ever before. I'd love to see it one last time, but I really shouldn't keep spending money. I should just wait for the Blu-ray.
Nostremitus
Member
Sliding goalposts all over the place.
Your argument was that the series wasn't relevant because you thought it was EU. That was a pedantic technicality used to completely disregard someone else's statements that you didn't agree with. This fact remains that the cartoons exist in the same universe as the movies and were produced my Lucasfilm. That makes them relevant to the conversation regardless of your personal opinions of them.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No, because the scope of the conversation includes the real world, and the environment in which the movies are created and consumed.
The conversation isn't limited to the fictional timeline of a made-up universe. That's why the frustration is what it is. Like I said earlier:
You gotta take that shit into account, basically. You can't just say "canon" and reduce the relevance of the real world impact and influences that come to bear.
Count Dookkake
Member
.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Basically, yup.
excelsiorlef
Member
When I talk about the OT, the PT and TFA and women in between I don't give a flying fuck about a TV series.
They may not call it EU but it sure as hell isn't on the same level of narrative importance as the movies, or cultural importance or any level of any sort of importance.
Fact Star Wars the movie series aka Star Wars has a terrible history in terms of representation of women that is only now in TFA getting better and I literally mean only now because like I said it managed to actually be worse in the PT which is fucking impressive since that was the early to mid 2000s vs the late 70s and early 80s.
Star Wars up until TFA frankly is probably has the worst record for female representation of any major Sci-Fi/geek property. Like it's fundamentally pathetic.
Count Dookkake
Member
.
The Librarian
Banned
LegalEagleMike
Member
also she didnt really do anything.
The Librarian
Banned
why is she going into battle wearing a tube-top
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Female Jedi breath through their skin.
The Librarian
Banned
A jedi is so adept that they could go into a battle naked. She is just expressing her sexual freedom to not be ashamed of her body. /s
but why does a jedi need armor? ...seriously
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Question, is there any valid explanation as to why Finn didn't seem to be remotely affected by this controlled upbringing by the First Order? That even took place from youth on, right? It just seemed utterly strange how normal he was and that he got his social skills down just fine. That he was supposed to be under a strict program of indoctrination and what not just isn't represented in his characterization at all.
There was a less sexy version before, but George Lucas specifically requested a redesign for it to be sexier.
Also, completely random and irrelevent detail, but just fyi, she's 14.
Nobody really knows what was up with the original design but they took the criticism and changed it in season 3 to this:
And in Rebels she now wears ancient Jedi armor:
Count Dookkake
Member
.
Twilight Gap
Member
http://www.wired.com/2010/11/clone-wars-ahsoka-new-look/
"The Clone Wars‘ supervising director Dave Filoni said Ahsoka’s new, improved look has nothing to do with fallout from her near-nakedness. (A Lucasfilm publicist denies that the company has received any complaints about Ahsoka’s skimpy costume other than ours)."
The old costume was dumb I agree.
source please
I thought that was the whole point.
The Librarian
Banned
what the fuck is wrong with star wars
excelsiorlef
Member
LegalEagleMike
Member
execute order sexy sex
This is a parody porno waiting to happen
BlueDogAnchorite
Member
Nobody really knows what was up with the original design but they took the criticism and changed it in season 3 to this:
And in Rebels she now wears ancient Jedi armor:
She's by far my favorite Star Wars character.
The Clone Wars: A Tyga Story
Nostremitus
Member
I was responding to these comments...
and
The EU isn't important but the Cartoons are. The cartoons are where the shift in perspective began for the Lucasfilm produced properties. This pro female empowerment mentality eventually grew into the movies. Disregarding a product of the studio being discussed just because of the medium it was released on doesn't make sense. You're choosing to Ignore the beginning of a trend that led to TFA.
The cartoon is exactly as canonical as the movies, though.
As I said above, disregarding the beginning of a shift or trend just because you don't personally care for the medium doesn't make sense to me.
Also, it could be argued that the most culturally important aspect of the cartoon is the fact that it was produced and released to a younger audience who are more impressionable.
It's something I read somewhere else a while ago, I don't remember where. Still, whether it was George or not, SOMEONE decided they should sexy up a 14 year old, and Lucas created the character so I assume would take interest in her design and he did had final say in the show and was heavily involved in the show. One way or another, he's responsible for her depiction being what it is.
I got to episode five before I said "fuck this boring shit" and just skipped to the Darth Maul episodes. It was also way more trouble than it should have been to figure out the episodes to watch to get this story. It is episodes 3.12-3.14 then you skip to 4.19-5.1 and then you skip to 5.14-5.16.
It is absolutely ridiculous that they break up plots like this. That said, those episodes I saw are all really great and I can see why people say the show is great. I eventually want to get back and watch the rest of the show but fuck are some of those early episodes painful to watch. If nothing else I recommend people watch the episodes I listed above.
That's what she always wears for the most part, Jedi don't really do "battle dress" for the most part. Although they could have put her in a non-tubetop costume to begin with of course
Here's her fighting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK5vWgib5Fk
Count Dookkake
Member
.
The Librarian
Banned
STAR WARS
Putting women in bikinis, having women stand around and be pregnant, forcing teenagers to look sexy, and, really, generally treating women like shit since 1977*.
*With the sole exception of TFA, and thank goodness for that.
Putting women in bikinis, having women stand around and be pregnant, forcing teenagers to look sexy, and, really, generally treating women like shit since 1977*.
*With the sole exception of TFA, and thank goodness for that.
Nostremitus
Member
Count Dookkake
Member
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Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
The clone wars is on millions of TVs, it's probably even more easily available than the movies especially if you are a kid.
They sell tons of clone wars merchandise.
They have books and video games with these characters.
It's an indisputable fact that there is going to be an entire generation of girls who grew up watching Ashoka on Clone Wars/Rebels and will see her as a positive role model.
So how the fuck is it not on the same level as the movies? Especially when it comes to the specific issue of female representation.
They sell tons of clone wars merchandise.
They have books and video games with these characters.
It's an indisputable fact that there is going to be an entire generation of girls who grew up watching Ashoka on Clone Wars/Rebels and will see her as a positive role model.
So how the fuck is it not on the same level as the movies? Especially when it comes to the specific issue of female representation.
excelsiorlef
Member
Because when I say Star Wars has a bad history with women posting a picture of one great character from a TV show doesn't disprove my point.
To but it in better context, the pilot of TNG (And I can compare the two because Star Trek is for TV what Star Wars is for movies) has better representation of women than all 6 of of the pre TFA movies fucking combined.
Star Wars up until TFA literally had two women! Two! in 6 movies, never at the same time, and one of them was fucking Padme.
So when I talk about Star Wars' track record with women, saying yeah but Ahsoka doesn't mean shit to me, because even if we include her that now makes 3 characters with one of them still being fucking Padme.
And if we include Ashoka congrats you've now matched the pilot episode of TMG only not really because one of them is Padme
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