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[evilromero]

I really am not interested in technical discussion of how the force works or whatever, but I just wanted to say that the overly-star wars parts of the movie (i.e. those things that rely heavily on internal logic to star wars films instead of creativity or other logics) were the worst parts of the film for me.
1. Star Killer base thing
2. A couple of the wink wink nod nods to older film sequences
3. The whole genetic connection with the force and the eventual necessity they then have to explain some overly coincidental background familial story with Rey.

I really liked the film, but at times it felt like it having to rely on previously established star wars lore hurts my enjoyment of it. I hope Rey is related to noone and they never explain her back story. I hope they do not ramp it up with some other technological doomsday device.

I had no issues with the film and thought it was probably the strongest in the series. BUT after learning that Storm Troopers are taken as children and trained all their life...ugh. Then why do they suck so bad at shooting the movie's protagonists?

 

[DrForester]

This is kind of the point she was making, which struck me in the way I hope it eventually strikes you: Yeah, maybe it seems like settling for mediocrity, but when mediocrity is all they're offering you, then you take it as it comes.

We've never had to worry about that. We could afford to desire greatness, because greatness is much more easily offered to us.

OK. THAT makes a lore more sense. I can see where she's coming from.

In terms of dialogue, sure. In terms of character, Amidala, the former queen, fighter and sitting senator, dies of a "broken heart" when her kids are born, while the boys duke it out with their swords.

I hope my comments didn't come off as in any way defending Pademe's characterization in the series. I just think Star Trek at times could sink just as low, if not lower.

 

[-griffy-]

In terms of dialogue, sure. In terms of character, Amidala, the former queen, fighter and sitting senator, dies of a "broken heart" when her kids are born, while the boys duke it out with their swords.

She also wears a skin tight white outfit into battle, which is then very specifically and conveniently ripped to expose her midriff.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If you're white

absolutely.

 

[Veelk]

jesus christ

What? Bobby recounts an entire story about how his wife clung to the only representational figure she had, and he's pretending that it's all about divorcing writing quality from any sense of identification, and when he finally does gets it, he sneers at it as 'settling for mediocrity'.

The crux of the debate is Bobby trying to get through how it must be for women when the best characters they had were Janeway and there was no getting anything better. The whole post is a walking example of male privileged, blissfully unaware of what it is like to not be the one whom the world caters to.

Edit: Well, atleast the message has gotten through. For that, I thank you, DrForester. I was worried this would turn into another fruitless struggle of the message not getting through. Been in too many of those.

 

[excelsiorlef]

She also wears a skin tight white outfit into battle, which is then very specifically and conveniently ripped to expose her midriff.

yeah the battle where she's chained up for show and has to get rescued and at most gets a few blaster shots in, and that's her big action scene.


God Padme isn't even mediocore she's terrible.

 

[The Librarian]

She also wears a skin tight white outfit into battle, which is then very specifically and conveniently ripped to expose her midriff.

she didn't have enough to opportunities to be sexy in TPM so AotC had to make up for lost time

 

[nomis]

There's something to the fact we, as guys can (and do) watch bad heroes that look and sound like us ALL THE TIME and we only secondarily tend to think of whether they're written/performed well as opposed to whether they're badass or had a cool enough moment to handwave all the shit we don't like.

A large amount of this thread is about very loudly, consistently, carefully making sure we don't ever give Rey that same handwave, no matter how slight it might be.

I feel like this is the crux of the issue, Internet-wide. Sure, there are some openly and vehemently misogynist crazies. I feel though like the vast majority of dudes who have beef with Rey are just subconsciously unable to use her as personal wish fullfillment and therefore unable to subconsciously hand wave her powers. So then she sticks out like a sore thumb to them in even in an ancient galaxy full of nebulous space magic.

I have a strong feeling that if Rey were a man, #reyisagarystu would have never trended on twitter. Instead we'd be seeing a lot more guys acting bubbly that Rey's force progression is unheard of in the SW universe. That he's a savant, like a prodigy child who can play a musical instrument as though he were a lifelong orchestra member. They'd be excited about the ramifications for the future portrayal of the force in Rey and others, not propping the character up as evidence of poor writing.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I hope my comments didn't come off as in any way defending Pademe's characterization in the series. I just think Star Trek at times could sink just as low, if not lower.

Never really with Uhura and my point that the fact that women (specifically Uhura) in Star Trek TOS in 1966 could even be talked about as smiiliar as Star Wars in 1999 in terms of women, is pathetic, Uhura broke ground in 1966, Padme was an Everest size drop down from Leia.

 

[Trouble]

Best female character in the franchise and one of the main faces of the franchise for the past 6+ years

YAAAAAS

 

[Twilight Gap]

There's probably a dozen problems i'd have with Padme before her appearance comes into play, and that's really the only bit of egregious fan service in the films. It does however make a bit of sense in context given that she is a politician in an execution arena. If Rey being a decent pilot breaks people's suspension of disbelief, imagine Padme walking out of that without any scratches.

 

[foxtrot3d]

That's a pretty un-generous sound though, ain't it?

The point isn't really about whether you're enlightened enough to take any/all aspects of gender and/or race out of your estimation. It's about whether you're enlightened enough to understand how important such things can be to younger people who are only just starting to self-identify and grow a sense of self-awareness.

There's something to the fact we, as guys can (and do) watch bad heroes that look and sound like us ALL THE TIME and we only secondarily tend to think of whether they're written/performed well as opposed to whether they're badass or had a cool enough moment to handwave all the shit we don't like.

A large amount of this thread is about very loudly, consistently, carefully making sure we don't ever give Rey that same handwave, no matter how slight it might be.

Not really as to me it hopefully means we get better written characters, especially ones I can identify with. I never wanted to sit there and try pretend real hard to like a character as a kid just because they were black, especially when they were usually just some caricature or a token minority. Fuck you, Mr. Popo you ain't me I want to be Vegeta or at the very least I can accept that Piccolo was actually really a black dude. I don't want to be fucking Lando when I can be Luke Skywalker. Screw every single Tyler Perry movie and someone tell Spike Lee and George Lucas that "Miracle and St. Anna" and "Red Tails" were both embarrassments.

I don't want garbage I want "The Wire," I want Cpt. Sisko, I want "Glory," I want every single fantastic character Denzel Washington has played. I want to see myself on camera but I don't want to be pandered to just give me a good character who also happens to be black.

 

[Count Dookkake]

.

 

[DrForester]

Pretty much the only bit of Rey's development I didn't care for was them establishing her as a good pilot, but still going with the comic relief takeoff with the Falcon. Get rid of that comedy bit, and just have her flying the ship. Especially since the book says she's raised by the guy who owned the Falcon, and likely knew the ship pretty well. But that's not really a problem with Rey so much as a writer who decided a comedy beat was needed.

 

[Mr Cola]

I had a dream last night where the opening of Episode 8 was a flashback scene of Ben, Han and Leia when Ben (Kylo ben) was a a little younger, showing the conflict but that he loved his parents. Made me a bit sad tbh, SW isnt about the flashbacks but it sucks that well likely never see the events that led up to what we have now on screen, I imagine in some form, probably literary, they will make there way to the universe.

As impossible and improbable as it is id take a couple of films about young Kylo leading up to TFA Kylo.

 

[excelsiorlef]

There's probably a dozen problems i'd have with Padme before her appearance comes into play, and that's really the only bit of egregious fan service in the films. It does however make a bit of sense in context given that she is a politician in an execution arena. If Rey being a decent pilot breaks people's suspension of disbelief, imagine Padme walking out of that without any scratches.

She got huge scratches on he back in the fight actually, and then Obi and Ani showed up to guard her until she could get one shot off at the end and make a quip...

 

[The Librarian]

I feel like this is the crux of the issue, Internet-wide. Sure, there are some openly and vehemently misogynist crazies. I feel though like the vast majority of dudes who have beef with Rey are just subconsciously unable to use her as personal wish fullfillment and therefore unable to subconsciously hand wave her powers. So then she sticks out like a sore thumb to them in even in an ancient galaxy full of nebulous space magic.

I have a strong feeling that if Rey were a man, #reyisagarystu would have never trended on twitter. Instead we'd be seeing a lot more guys acting bubbly that Rey's force progression is unheard of in the SW universe. That he's a savant, like a prodigy child who can play a musical instrument as though he were a lifelong orchestra member. They'd be excited about the ramifications for the future portrayal of the force in Rey and others, not propping the character up as evidence of poor writing.

Probably not, considering this all started with Max Landis quoting fucking 4chan

 

[Snake]

I have a strong feeling that if Rey were a man, #reyisagarystu would have never trended on twitter.

I dare a single person on this forum to seriously and credibly argue otherwise. There is simply no chance it would have happened.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Pretty much the only bit of Rey's development I didn't care for was them establishing her as a good pilot, but still going with the comic relief takeoff with the Falcon. Get rid of that comedy bit, and just have her flying the ship. Especially since the book says she's raised by the guy who owned the Falcon, and likely knew the ship pretty well. But that's not really a problem with Rey so much as a writer who decided a comedy beat was needed.

Wait you're problem is that she didn't fly the ship well enough?

 

[Veelk]

Not really as to me it hopefully means we get better written characters, especially ones I can identify with. I never wanted to sit there and try pretend real hard to like a character as a kid just because they were black, especially when they were usually just some caricature or a token minority. Fuck you, Mr. Popo you ain't me I want to be Vegeta or at the very least I can accept that Piccolo was actually really a black dude. I don't want to be fucking Lando when I can be Luke Skywalker. Screw every single Tyler Perry movie and someone tell Spike Lee and George Lucas that "Miracle and St. Anna" and "Red Tails" were both embarrassments.

I don't want garbage I want "The Wire," I want Cpt. Sisko, I want "Glory," I want every single fantastic character Denzel Washington has played. I want to see myself on camera but I don't want to be pandered to just give me a good character who also happens to be black.

Representation doesn't really have much to do with quality. Well, kinda. But representation doesn't mean the character is inherently good, it just means that there is a characteristic of a particular class of people within the series. A show might be good even if all it has is white guys in the entire population of it's cast, but it would be exclusionary to non-whites. That's the issues, being inclusive.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I feel though like the vast majority of dudes who have beef with Rey are just subconsciously unable to use her as personal wish fullfillment and therefore unable to subconsciously hand wave her powers. So then she sticks out like a sore thumb to them in even in an ancient galaxy full of nebulous space magic.

I have a strong feeling that if Rey were a man, #reyisagarystu would have never trended on twitter. Instead we'd be seeing a lot more guys acting bubbly that Rey's force progression is unheard of in the SW universe. That he's a savant, like a prodigy child who can play a musical instrument as though he were a lifelong orchestra member. They'd be excited about the ramifications for the future portrayal of the force in Rey and others, not propping the character up as evidence of poor writing.

Yeah, that's the feeling I've been kinda pawing at for the past three weeks. But basically, it wouldn't even occur to them to be upset at the fact Ray is a better Luke than Luke was at that age, they'd just be excited at the possibility that Ray gets to be a better Luke than Luke was, like "man, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? Especially when this guy, who does things as good or better as Luke did, is gonna get trained by Luke? COME ON, I can't wait for Episode 8 I wanna see how OP Ray can get, fuck that big head Prometheus dude UP."

 

[FyreWulff]

finally saw this.

so much better than the prequels, even if it got carried away with "we're gonna mention this or show this to set up the rest of the trilogy"

 

[The Librarian]

Pretty much the only bit of Rey's development I didn't care for was them establishing her as a good pilot, but still going with the comic relief takeoff with the Falcon. Get rid of that comedy bit, and just have her flying the ship. Especially since the book says she's raised by the guy who owned the Falcon, and likely knew the ship pretty well. But that's not really a problem with Rey so much as a writer who decided a comedy beat was needed.

Seeigg the movie three times, I'm now more convinced that's due to the Falcon's not having flown for years more than it is Rey.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Last Crusade > Temple of Doom > Raiders

Brb vomming

I bet you also go Return of the Jedi > A New Hope > Empire

You heathen

 

[Mr Cola]

I dont want Luke to train her, I hate how predictable that is, what, we gonna open up episode 8 a year after the events with Rey doing drills, I hate that idea.

They promised me a Luke affected by things, a Luke they told us witnessed the fall of his academy to a student he trained, why the hell would they just open up "Oh well I guess he fucked up and went into exile but Rey showed up better train her"

If they make it so straight forward ill be pissed, ep7 was great, loved it, go to new places in 8 though, 8 is the golden chance to branch off into new areas.

If this becomes a simple "LUKE MUST TRAIN REY TO FIGHT KYLO WHO IS TRAINED BY SNOKE FOR ULTIMATE BATTLES IN EPISODE 9" then god damn.

 

[DrForester]

Seeigg the movie three times, I'm now more convinced that's due to the Falcon's not having flown for years more than it is Rey.

You know, you're probably right about that.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Representation doesn't really have much to do with quality. Well, kinda. But representation doesn't mean the character is inherently good, it just means that there is a characteristic of a particular class of people within the series. A show might be good even if all it has is white guys in the entire population of it's cast, but it would be exclusionary to non-whites. That's the issues, being inclusive.

I don't disagree, what I was talking about there was main/leading characters and also the idea of simply identifying with a character because they are the same skin color as me. Of course, there should be a more diverse representation throughout film media. Why is EVERYONE in Friends white? I'm talking about all the way down to the goddamn extras in the coffee shop. Fuck outta here.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Not really

Nah man, it is. I mean, even in your example of you as a kid having to reject the bullshit images the entertainment industry was feeding you, you're still having to come up with justifications and mental sleight of hand in order to allow yourself an in to the material that a bunch of other kids never had to do, never even thought to do, because all those other kids just have these experiences custom tailored to them.

The experience you're describing is the experience many creators had, that fueled them to enter the industry and create their own imaginary worlds that are aimed at another generation of children that DO look like them, and make it easier for them to have their ins to those worlds. Not that it's the only in. But at least there's the option of an easier one.

Now imagine you're one of those kids, and you grow up, and you're in a position to either write, or pay someone to write FOR YOU, a character that provides that in to millions and millions of other people.

And then a younger version of you, sees that and goes "Eh..." at it.

It's gonna come off as not all that generous. Because what's being "Ehh'd" at isn't so much the quality of writing, although that's what you're intending. You're "Ehh-ing" at the idea that there's any worth in that representation in and of itself.

And of course there is. You recognize it yourself. It's what caused you to take the initiative to not take what they were giving you on their terms.

 

[Peagles]

Wait you're problem is that she didn't fly the ship well enough?

We've come full circle lol.

Spoiler

Is this the sixth or seventh time?

 

[excelsiorlef]

We've come full circle lol.

Spoiler

Is this the sixth or seventh time?

10th.

 

[DrForester]

Wait you're problem is that she didn't fly the ship well enough?

Like I said, it's more the decision to toss in a comedy beat that was unneeded. But I agree with The Librarian's thought that it was probably due to the Falcon not flying in years. Had not thought about it like that.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I have a strong feeling that if Rey were a man, #reyisagarystu would have never trended on twitter. Instead we'd be seeing a lot more guys acting bubbly that Rey's force progression is unheard of in the SW universe. That he's a savant, like a prodigy child who can play a musical instrument as though he were a lifelong orchestra member. They'd be excited about the ramifications for the future portrayal of the force in Rey and others, not propping the character up as evidence of poor writing.

If Rey were a man there would be less outrage at the criticism of him being a boring lead.

Considering the lead role is shared with Finn, it would probably invite more of that thought.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Like I said, it's more the decision to toss in a comedy beat that was unneeded. But I agree with The Librarian's thought that it was probably due to the Falcon not flying in years. Had not thought about it like that.

It wasn't even a comedy bit, it was rough take off that's it,

 

[Veelk]

Yeah, that's the feeling I've been kinda pawing at for the past three weeks. But basically, it wouldn't even occur to them to be upset at the fact Ray is a better Luke than Luke was at that age, they'd just be excited at the possibility that Ray gets to be a better Luke than Luke was, like "man, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? Especially when this guy, who does things as good or better as Luke did, is gonna get trained by Luke? COME ON, I can't wait for Episode 8 I wanna see how OP Ray can get, fuck that big head Prometheus dude UP."

I wonder if this is actually provable. I mean, I don't doubt it, but is there another instance of SW media where this actually happened? The only thing I can think is Starkiller with The Force Unleashed, and I think that was meant to be the canonical explanation for the foundation of the rebellion at the time.

If you wanted to see overpowered with the force, fucking Force Unleashed was it. But maybe because it was a videogame, that didn't count?

 

[Peagles]

10th.

Nooooooooooooooo!!!

 

[foxtrot3d]

Nah man, it is. I mean, even in your example of you as a kid having to reject the bullshit images the entertainment industry was feeding you, you're still having to come up with justifications and mental sleight of hand in order to allow yourself an in to the material that a bunch of other kids never had to do, never even thought to do, because all those other kids just have these experiences custom tailored to them.

The experience you're describing is the experience many creators had, that fueled them to enter the industry and create their own imaginary worlds that are aimed at another generation of children that DO look like them, and make it easier for them to have their ins to those worlds. Not that it's the only in. But at least there's the option of an easier one.

Now imagine you're one of those kids, and you grow up, and you're in a position to either write, or pay someone to write FOR YOU, a character that provides that in to millions and millions of other people.

And then a younger version of you, sees that and goes "Eh..." at it.

It's gonna come off as not all that generous. Because what's being "Ehh'd" at isn't so much the quality of writing, although that's what you're intending. You're "Ehh-ing" at the idea that there's any worth in that representation in and of itself.

And of course there is. You recognize it yourself. It's what caused you to take the initiative to not take what they were giving you on their terms.

Nah, I am not doing that. I'm going "eh" at the idea that mere representation will excuse a poor character. Listen, I may not identify with Mace Windu or think he's a good character but I'm grateful as fuck he's at least in the prequels as a black guy in such a prominent way.

 

[Nairume]

I wonder if this is actually provable. I mean, I don't doubt it, but is there another instance of SW media where this actually happened? The only thing I can think is Starkiller with The Force Unleashed, and I think that was meant to be the canonical explanation for the foundation of the rebellion at the time.

If you wanted to see overpowered with the force, fucking Force Unleashed was it. But maybe because it was a videogame, that didn't count?

Even keeping intentional misdirections in promotional materials in mind, you could probably make somewhat of a safe assumption by how everybody easily defaulted to accepting the idea that Finn was the force user and was going to end up training with Luke.

Well, everybody but racists, of course.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I wonder if this is actually provable. I mean, I don't doubt it, but is there another instance of SW media where this actually happened? The only thing I can think is Starkiller with The Force Unleashed, and I think that was meant to be the canonical explanation for the foundation of the rebellion at the time.

If you wanted to see overpowered with the force, fucking Force Unleashed was it. But maybe because it was a videogame, that didn't count?

It's a game, I mean Vader was stupid OP in the prologue for that game.

That Prologue btw is the best part of that game because the Wookies spawn endlessly so you could just kill Wookies as Vader for hours and you can't die either. Stupid amount of fun.

Nah, I am not doing that. I'm going "eh" at the idea that mere representation will excuse a poor character. Listen, I may not identify with Mace Windu or think he's a good character but I'm grateful as fuck he's at least in the prequels as a black guy in such a prominent way.

The same way I'm grateful for Janeway.

 

[Toa TAK]

Best female character in the franchise and one of the main faces of the franchise for the past 6+ years

 

[-griffy-]

Like I said, it's more the decision to toss in a comedy beat that was unneeded. But I agree with The Librarian's thought that it was probably due to the Falcon not flying in years. Had not thought about it like that.

It's also the first time she's ever flown that specific ship. It's not remotely unreasonable it would take her a few moments to get her bearings, especially since she doesn't have a copilot (which she calls out later in the scene).

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'm going "eh" at the idea that mere representation will excuse a poor character.

But nobody argued that at any point. Nobody once said that the quality of the writing or the acting didn't matter. It obviously does, and even in the case of the conversation all those years ago between me and my wife that sparked this side-discussion, she admitted that the show isn't very good, and the character wasn't written very well. Representation doesn't EXCUSE that - but that doesn't mean it's weightless. You just said as much with your Windu example. And when that's basically all they're fuckin' offering you, you make do. It's not like she didn't do as you did, and figure out her own ways into identification with white men at the lead of stories that intrigued her. Of course she did. She had to.

That's the point. There's an intrinsic worth to inclusivity and wider representation. Yes, those roles should be well written and well acted, too. But lets say you're a fan of superheroes, and all they're giving you is fuckin Luke Cage in the '70s - yeah, you might still like Spidey better. You might still prefer Batman. But chances are there's some level of appreciation at the relative ease at which you can say "that guy's MINE" when you decided to enter that universe.

That's what you were "Ehh-ing," even as you thought you were ehh-ing bad writing and lazy tokenism.

Rey's not even a poor character, so the Ehh-ing in that direction from multiple corners of the fandom is out-of-place, period. Her being a woman doesn't excuse those character flaws, of course not. But her being a woman shouldn't mean those character flaws suddenly weigh 3 tons each when for most other male heroes, they're however light they need to be in order to give some shine to the awesome stuff that scratches our wish-fulfillment itches.

 

[Valdfellgar]

Even keeping intentional misdirections in promotional materials in mind, you could probably make somewhat of a safe assumption by how everybody easily defaulted to accepting the idea that Finn was the force user and was going to end up training with Luke.

Well, everybody but racists, of course.

Mmm I found it painfully clear going in, from all the promotional material, that Rey was the force user. I thought maybe Fin too, seeing as he was wielding a light saber, but I got the impression Fin was our renegade trooper.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

I wonder if this is actually provable. I mean, I don't doubt it, but is there another instance of SW media where this actually happened? The only thing I can think is Starkiller with The Force Unleashed, and I think that was meant to be the canonical explanation for the foundation of the rebellion at the time.

If you wanted to see overpowered with the force, fucking Force Unleashed was it. But maybe because it was a videogame, that didn't count?

There was some pushback and accusations of Starkiller being a gary stu, but it is important to remember context. Rey is competent to great in most things she tries her hand in. Starkiller is easily one of the most powerful force users ever who defeats literally everyone, was instrumental to the Empire and then inspired the founding of the Rebellion. It was absolutely laughable how much of a power fantasy he was.

Even then, I'm pretty sure the only reason Starkiller got beef was that he defeated Vader and the Emperor. If he didn't, I'm pretty sure people would have loved him despite how much of a sue he'd still be.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

There's a corner of the fandom (not insignificant, either) who, even though the second game disappointed and the entire E.U. has been decanonized, are pulling for the character to be re-introduced into the films, and specifically want him to get one of the spinoff flicks.

 

[foxtrot3d]

But nobody argued that at any point. Nobody once said that the quality of the writing or the acting didn't matter. It obviously does, and even in the case of the conversation all those years ago between me and my wife that sparked this side-discussion, she admitted that the show isn't very good, and the character wasn't written very well. Representation doesn't EXCUSE that - but that doesn't mean it's weightless. You just said as much with your Windu example. And when that's basically all they're fuckin' offering you, you make do. It's not like she didn't do, as you did, and figure out her own ways into identification with white men at the lead of stories that intrigued her. Of course she did. She had to.

That's the point. There's an intrinsic worth to inclusivity and wider representation. Yes, those roles should be well written and well acted, too. But lets say you're a fan of superheroes, and all they're giving you is fuckin Luke Cage in the '70s - yeah, you might still like Spidey better. You might still prefer Batman. But chances are you there's some level of appreciation at the relative ease at which you can say "that guy's MINE" when you decided to enter that universe.

That's what you were "Ehh-ing," even as you thought you were ehh-ing bad writing and lazy tokenism.

Rey's not even a poor character, so the Ehh-ing in that direction from multiple corners of the fandom is out-of-place, period. Her being a woman doesn't excuse those character flaws, of course not. But her being a woman shouldn't mean those character flaws suddenly weigh 3 tons each when for most other male heroes, they're however light they need to be in order to give some shine to the awesome stuff that scratches our wish-fulfillment itches.

I don't disagree.

There was some pushback and accusations of Starkiller being a gary stu, but it is important to remember context. Rey is competent to great in most things she tries her hand in. Starkiller is easily one of the most powerful force users ever who defeats literally everyone, was instrumental to the Empire and then inspired the founding of the Rebellion. It was absolutely laughable how much of a power fantasy he was.

Even then, I'm pretty sure the only reason Starkiller got beef was that he defeated Vader and the Emperor. If he didn't, I'm pretty sure people would have loved him despite how much of a sue he'd still be.

I find it legitimately odd that people enjyoyed TFU or liked Starkiller in anyway especially when other great SW games, especially ones with good lightsaber combat already existed. I'll take Jedi Knight IV over TFU 3 any day.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

There's a corner of the fandom (not insignificant, either) who, even though the second game disappointed and the entire E.U. has been decanonized, are pulling for the character to be re-introduced into the films, and specifically want him to get one of the spinoff flicks.

Well then.

If you'll excuse me, I'm catching the first train to Mars, cause fuck this earth.

 

[Brakke]

I wonder if this is actually provable. I mean, I don't doubt it, but is there another instance of SW media where this actually happened?

You overlooking when precocious little idiot Ani killed a not-Death Star in Episode 1 totally by the Force guiding him accident?

 

[televator]

Just saw it a second time. I already loved the movie and I thought some of the shine would rub off on a repeat view, but nope. Totally the opposite. I like the TFA even moar now.

 

[Nostremitus]

Well then.

If you'll excuse me, I'm catching the first train to Mars, cause fuck this earth.

I want Snoke to be a failed Starkiller clone twisted by the dark side who came back with a vengeance.

 

[Surfinn]

I gotta say I thought Before the Awakening was a surprisingly engaging read; fills in a lot of blanks and is excellently written. Love the Leia dialoge especially. Also found out that Teedo is one of many Teedos just like him.