-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
AusRoachman
Member
I liked maul , to me he was one of the best things about the prequels (despite doing bugger all but my inner child says hey he looked amazing)
But no more of these types of shitty fights please
But no more of these types of shitty fights please
Isn't the point of hyperspace that you're not travelling fast, but that the space is warped? The moment space unwraps or you exit the wormhole, you're still traveling as fast as before. Of course you might wonder what happens if the wormhole doesnt end in empty space but inside a planet, but still.
QuantumZebra
Member
It is definitely a movie that improves on repeat viewings (I never watch films more than once usually and I've seen it 4 times now).
lol sounds like JJ left all that bullshit up to Rian Johnson to deal with.
Are you kidding ? He's got schizophrenia and he beat up his own mother.
Interfectum
Member
Which is good. JJ did a great introduction for the characters now lets let some talented storytellers take it from here.
*Looks towards Episode 9*
Interfectum
Member
Rian is on the script for that too.
Fancy Clown
Member
I think he's doing a story treatment but the actual script is being written by Trevorrow and the other hack who helped him write Jurassic World.
It appears Johnson is just doing the treatment and that Trevorrow is doing the script with Derek Connolly. Although I suppose this is no 100% confirmation.
Interfectum
Member
Rian is listed as doing both the treatment and script. (just going by IMDB though, could be wrong)
JimiNutz
Banned
Doesn't Ren twirl his saber for momentum at one point in the battle. Having the odd twirl or flashy move is fine - especially when the sabers appear to have weight.
The problem with the prequel fights were that they were always trying to outdo the duel in Episode I by adding even more flips and twirls to the point where it was ridiculous. The sabers had no weight to them and the fights lacked any impact because they looked too fake and scripted.
The problem with the prequel fights were that they were always trying to outdo the duel in Episode I by adding even more flips and twirls to the point where it was ridiculous. The sabers had no weight to them and the fights lacked any impact because they looked too fake and scripted.
You know it's true. Abrams, Johnson and Treverrow all made films involving time travel. It's all part of Kennedy's plan to erase the prequels.
I kid, I kid
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, I like Ray Park, but I'm fine with not having this kind of stuff in the new trilogy.
Then again, he was just doing some off-the-cuff movements. I'm sure Driver was instructed/trained with European sword fighting influence. You can see it in some of his movements.
He spins it once before his duel with Finn, but I felt like that was more of a warmup or intimidation thing.
The other times he spins it, you're right--it looks more like he's trying to do it to gather momentum for a strong strike.
It probably doesn't make sense considering it's a sword made of "light" (then again, it's Star Wars), but it just looks and feels better.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The lightsabers having no weight makes sense considering what they're made of. But yeah it definitely looks cooler when they do appear to have weight.
Isn't the point of hyperspace that you're not travelling fast, but that the space is warped? The moment space unwraps or you exit the wormhole, you're still traveling as fast as before. Of course you might wonder what happens if the wormhole doesnt end in empty space but inside a planet, but still.
is it? that's how Star Trek's warp drive works.
I thought a hyperdrive simply made you ... go very very very fast.
phazedplasma
Member
/c3po "we're doomed"
I liked maul , to me he was one of the best things about the prequels (despite doing bugger all but my inner child says hey he looked amazing)
But no more of these types of shitty fights please
Exactly, go with the Bruce Lee approach. No unnecessary bs
Anton Sugar
Member
*Really* hoping that JW's script was that bad because it was rewritten/rushed. Otherwise...yikes.
Anton Sugar
Member
I hate 3D normally, but there were some great uses of it when I saw it in IMAX. The first time I saw TFA, I honestly thought the space combat around Starkiller was a little lackluster. Seeing it in 3D was pretty cool, especially the cockpit views.
QuantumZebra
Member
You can't go faster than lightspeed. Hyperdrive is just another word for warp drive IMO.
It means connecting point A and point B instead of traveling a distance between them
Well at least in this movie it shows them in a tunnel just like in Star Trek.
It's the same visual they used in the old movies too. And the fact they jumped into hyperspace with the Falcon from inside the closed hangar on the freighter would suggest they aren't simply moving fast, since they would have just crashed into the hangar wall.
Anton Sugar
Member
But at the same time, they exit lightspeed within Starkiller's shields and have to take evasive maneuvers because of how fast they're going.
Then again, the speed they're traveling at exit could just be fast for planetary standards, not space travel.
Star Wars.
Oh they had it there as well, I didn't remember.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It's fantasy, not science fiction. It works like the "seven-league boots" in old fairy tales.
The visual we always get when something comes out of hyperspace is one where they appear out of nowhere and appear to slow down significantly to a normal regular cruising speed. So when they come out there is still movement. If I had to guess, you go out of hyperspace with the same speed you went in I guess.
The Starkiller planet itself didn't have shields, just that building did right?
Well I feel like they are still moving fast through the wormhole, so their relative speed is still super fast, but they aren't simply moving super fast through normal space. They leave "regular" space, enter the wormhole and move through that, leave the wormhole and re-enter normal space.
But yeah, to quote Harrison Ford: It's fake.
No the whole planet had a shield on it that prevented ships from entering. That's why they needed to jump out of hyperspace at the surface to bypass the shields. Then they disabled the shields which let the rest of the fleet travel to the surface and commence the attack.
QuantumZebra
Member
No - the planet had shields just like Endor in ROTJ.
Thats the reason for them going hyperspeed into the planet - they had to get through the shields' 1MS refresh rate and only that would work. It is a very dangerous move that should have ended in all of them dying if not for Han's force sensitivity/badassery.
Samurai G0SU
Member
damn i really enjoyed this movie more than i expected. i put some expectations in check, but came out very pleased. Loved the pacing of each character.
When i first met Finn, i didn't really feel fond of him. It was until he started to run after Rey when Ren was carrying her to the ship.
That's when i started to understand why he does the things he does. He just wants to do what's right, not matter what. Well that's how i understand him.
"we'll just use the force" haha - "thats not how the force works." that cracked me up. lol
So is Daniel Craig the storm trooper Rey mind controlled first?
When i first met Finn, i didn't really feel fond of him. It was until he started to run after Rey when Ren was carrying her to the ship.
That's when i started to understand why he does the things he does. He just wants to do what's right, not matter what. Well that's how i understand him.
"we'll just use the force" haha - "thats not how the force works." that cracked me up. lol
So is Daniel Craig the storm trooper Rey mind controlled first?
QuantumZebra
Member
Lol I like Driver - he's growing on me
Yup.
The movie only gets better with repeat viewings. I definitely recommend everyone see it at least x2 in the theater.
Pejo
Member
I can agree with this. It was worthy of spending the extra to see in IMAX. I caught myself several times almost waving ash/debris out of my field of view, and a couple of times caught myself looking around a character placed in the foreground, like they were actively in my way. Not as immersive as Avatar, but there was none of the "pie in your face" type stuff that most 3D movies throw at the screen.
As for my thoughts on the movie, going in blind for the first time last night:
-Rey is gaining force powers way too quickly. Overcoming Ren trying to read her mind and turning it around on him for her very first feat with the force? yikes. I don't take the lightsaber battle at the end as badly as some did, Ren was majorly fucked up from several different factors, and he still had her on the defensive for the majority of the fight.
-Characters so far are great. I particularly like Finn and Poe. When Ren took off his helmet at first I was kinda disappointed, I expected him to look...I dunno, more badass. He reminded me a lot of the antagonist of Grandma's Boy. I guess his delivery was better than Anakin though.
-Story feels like a rehash of A New Hope, with some of the details mashed around. I have to take that for what it was, but still too much of the movie felt familiar.
-JJ did a fantastic job directing. The large panning shots switching between characters and layers was amazing to view at IMAX. It was a visual feast for sure.
-The music seemed to fall just short of what you'd expect from Star Wars. They were all arrangements that felt familiar but nothing got me really pumped up like the OT did.
-Was kinda hoping they'd take more of the OT characters out of the equation entirely, maybe except Luke. I don't really want this trilogy to be bogged down by fan service from that era. It was a nice nod in this film, but I hope the next two films focus on the new characters and the challenges ahead.
-The CGI usage felt "right" in this movie. I realize the effects section of the credits was still way bigger than the actors section, but I didn't get the feeling that there was too much weird CGI ruining the look of the universe/movie like I did with the prequels
-Loved the new lightsaber choreography. I hate using the word, but "visceral" came to mind a few times when watching it. You could attribute that to the people wielding the sabers not really being trained in them for the most part, but I just like the direction it's headed in, without all the flips and spins.
Overall, I had a lot of fun at this movie. It's not my favorite Star Wars, but I like the direction the new ones are headed down, and it's probably the best movie I've seen in a year or so on its own merits.
According to Wikipedia (apparently there's a Wikipedia page for everything) Star Wars' hyperspace is slightly different in that you sidestep into another dimension, with charted routes, but that is much faster/smaller than regular space. Not instantaneous, because traveling still takes time e.g. the death star taking a long time to reach Yavin 4. Though I'm not sure any of this is really canon (or whether there is a canon), it seems to come from kotor. In any case, the Milennium Falcon would jump from the hyperspace dimension back into our dimension, not move at Ludicrous Speed.
Interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing.
Rey's story is not fully explained and I believe she's had some sort of previous training; even during my first viewing, I was thinking "there's no way she hasn't had any prior experience with the force". I thought certain parts of the film telegraphed it, to be honest.
As others are saying, repeat viewings. You absolutely need to see this movie more than once to appreciate its qualities, ESPECIALLY the soundtrack. First time I saw it I couldn't tell you a single track that was outstanding, but now when I watch it (it will be my sixth time later in the month), I instantly recognize Ren's Theme, Rey's Theme, March of the Resistance, Jedi Steps and Torn Apart. Anyone who loves Star Wars (or even just this film) owe it to themselves to see it at least one more time.
The more you see it, the less you focus on its similarities with ANH. For a sci-fi adventure flick, there's so much it has to offer, especially if you're into speculation/film deconstruction.
It's as simple and complex as you want it to be, and that's what makes the film so widely enjoyed.
I was also initially disappointed but later really liked that Driver wasn't really imposing (but instead posing). He's relatively young, a strong force user that is destined to become the greatest because he started training much earlier than his uncle, he's royalty, his father is a vagabond and he's a direct descendant from Force Jesus.
So he's a complete spoiled brat just as you'd expect him to grow up.
So he's a complete spoiled brat just as you'd expect him to grow up.
Unless the Star Wars universe relies on different physical laws than our own, it's impossible to go interstellar distances by just traveling "very very very fast" because everything is theoretically constrained by the speed of light, which itself isn't "instant"; light from the sun takes 8 minutes to reach earth, and over 5 hours to reach Pluto. Traveling at the speed of light, it would take 4.2 years for us to reach the next closest star to Earth, Promixa Centauri. Of course, our current methods can't transport us even close to the speed of light, so the voyage would actually take us at least dozens of years, and probably thousands.
Space travel in science fiction thus almost always relies on some method of traveling "faster than light," which doesn't mean literally moving at a faster speed than light, but something along the lines of the aforementioned "warping," whether a wormhole connecting distant points, or Star Trek's "subspace displacement field"- both of which are dimensional hacks, like connecting the edges of a sheet of paper by rolling it into a cylinder.
In Star Wars, though it may be set in a single galaxy, people are flying interstellar distances constantly, even in single-passenger spacecraft, in seconds to hours of real time. This is where we get into the "clearly space fantasy" territory- you're just not supposed to think about it. It's utterly irrelevant to the stories being told, and it doesn't matter how it works. But, I thought you might be interested to know that hyperdrive can't just get you where you want to go by going really really fast because we'd still be talking about years of travel at lightspeed.
prag16
Banned
Yeah, the more I thought about it, Driver's appearance works better for me. Looking like a hardened imposing badass wouldn't really make sense for his character.
Same with Rey as well. My knee jerk was that she was overpowered. But the more I thought about it, and on a second viewing, it doesn't bother me really. She has a past that hasn't been revealed to us, and Kylo was seriously fucked up on various ways during the final fight, and still had her dead where she stood if he was actually trying the entire time to kill her.
Everything with the characters, I'm cool with maybe aside from the underuse of Phasma.
It's only some weak plot devices that still slightly bother me, like Han's second hyperspace stunt and many aspects of Starkiller.
Anton Sugar
Member
He's my favorite character, and that's out of a cast of great characters. Love the nuance they gave him and I think Driver nailed it.
LegendofLex
Member
In hindsight, I think the hyperspace stunts and Starkiller Base don't really exist to be analyzed on their own, but rather as reflections of the associated characters.
Han is still a cocky bastard, and this is really the first time we've gotten a glimpse at just how reckless he is and how he was able to pull off a stunt that's known across the galaxy.
Starkiller Base is just a physical manifestation of the First Order, and specifically Kylo Ren (as well as Rey, to some extent). As others have pointed out, it's supposed to feel like a twist on the Death Star, and it's one that's intentionally just as swiftly destroyed - but that's all to get it out of the way, and set up for the real conflict, which is the good vs. evil, with Rey on the literal right side of the chasm and Kylo on the wrong one, with a literal source of light exploding from within the heart of evil.
Interfectum
Member
I agree. Of all the characters I can't wait to see where his arc leads.
Anton Sugar
Member
Weakest scene for me is the Starkiller planning scene. Just a lot of awkward and forced dialogue, especially for Han. It's a series of "what about X?" "let's do Y" "great idea!" and really just goes through the motions.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
Hyperspace is another dimension where the laws of physics don't apply and you can travel at light speed without time dilation. I believe ships travel in a 'cloudy bubble' or something.
From Wookiepedia
"Hyperspace was an alternate dimension that could only be reached by travelling at lightspeed or faster.[1] By entering hyperspace, a starship could take advantage of the wrinkles in the fabric of realspace to reduce journey time significantly, "jumping" from a specific point to another point without having to travel directly between them.[2] However, large objects in realspace cast "mass shadows" in hyperspace, so hyperspace jumps necessitated very precise calculations.[1] Without those, a vessel could fly right through a star or another celestial body.[2] Because of the danger, there existed predetermined hyperspace routes which interstellar travellers could take. Sometimes, the discovery of new safe hyperspace routes could play a pivotal role in a war, as it would allow naval forces to move faster unbeknownst to their adversaries.[3] A vessel's ability to travel through hyperspace depended on its being equipped with a hyperdrive engine.[4] Quick jumps into hyperspace could be unsettling to even experienced pilots, but those with the proper stamina and training could overcome this.[5] The Galactic Empire employed Interdictor cruisers to disable hyperspace capabilities in other vessels, both to pull them from hyperspace and to prevent them from making the jump to it.[6]
It was technically possible for a vessel, such as a shuttle, to disembark from another vessel while in hyperspace, but the procedure carried extreme risk. Such a move would tear the disembarking vessel violently out of hyperspace.[7] "
The Librarian
Banned
Bow before Queen Rey.
The weakest scene for me was the one with the little green alien lady who was quickly rushing through the Force explanation saying the same stuff Yoda said about it. It just didn't feel honest and more came off like a scene to deliberately address fan complaints about the prequels changing the force from something magical to something measurable. It didn't help with it being a wise green little alien saying this that it felt like they were just trying to have weak clone of Yoda in here.
Agreed.
Expected this.
But this is also one of the reasons that final assault is such a let down. In the OT and even the PT they always make it very clear what the plan is. So as a viewer you know what the endgame is for all the characters. Here they are basically freewheeling their way through with no real plan beyond 'we'll hit this point with everything we got'. They should have just made the setting the explosive sequence of Han and Chewie part of the initial plan and cut it accordingly. Instead the assault feels really disjointed as a whole.
Similar threads
- Poll