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[soulluos]

Oh dear, there maybe no Rey's parentage reveal in VIII

http://www.etonline.com/news/179765...ises_satisfying_answer_to_star_wars_theories/

“I’ve seen all of the theories… What I do know is that we’re going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying, because Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens but in the entire galaxy, and she deserves it. So we’ll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was—it’s something that happened a long time ago [in a galaxy] far, far away, we’re just telling you what happened.”

 

[Cth]

Since everyone liked that analysis/review, here's some more snippets I found interesting from the page:

There is no more representative image of The Force Awakens than its new hero Rey sitting in front of her crashed AT-AT home in Jakku, wearing an X-Wing pilot’s helmet.[..] It’s also an effective way of turning Rey into an audience surrogate – just like much of the audience probably did when they were children (and Rey is very childlike, unsurprising for someone who was abandoned when she was five), she’s playacting at being in the SW movies. But more profoundly, it’s an extension of the film’s largest theme: each new generation has to grow up in the wreckage of the past generation’s mistakes.

Every major character arc in this film is about struggling with the past.

[..]

When the film’s villain Kylo Ren is introduced, it’s in a conversation entirely about his heritage. Kylo, like Rey (and, tellingly, like his father Han Solo) has an arc centered around deceiving himself about the meaning of his past.

[..]

Han has a similar level of self-delusion. In conversation with Leia, Han claims that smuggling was the only thing he’s ever been good at. But the film itself (and the three prior to it) shows a very different picture. Han Solo is a terrible smuggler. He’s constantly in debt. He can’t quite talk his way out of trouble the way he obviously believes he can. And he can never quite get a handle on his cargo, whether he has to drop it, or whether it escapes and starts devouring everyone. In contrast, when he takes up the good fight again, he’s a hell of a gunman, a good tactician, and willing to lay down his life for the right cause. This is the actualized Han Solo, not the one he thinks is his true self. But as Lawrence Kasdan has said about this film, as characters age they don’t necessarily get wiser, they simply get older. It’s far easier to regress than to confront your problems, and by the time Han finally confronts his great mistake, it’s far too late for him to fix it.

[..]

When he admits to Finn and Rey that the Jedi and the Force are real, to them it’s exactly like learning their greatest myths are true. But to Han, the Force is what cost him his son. This film – arguably the first character-driven Star Wars film – never loses sight that amidst the vast powers of the Force, the glorious legends and heroes are real people who suffer real loss along the way. History – even that of the greatest heroes in the galaxy – is filled with mistakes left for the next generation to correct.

The Hero’s Journey [..] The oldest myths don’t conclude with the characters at their greatest moment of triumph, they go on to the very end – until death and true apotheosis. Luke has been on the Magic Flight, the retreat from the ordinary plane into higher, more spiritual matters. It’s no mistake the choice was made to have him go to the first Jedi Temple. Similar to the Sword in the Stone imagery mentioned above, the image here is directly out of Arthurian mythology, harkening back to Avalon, and to the Fisher King – the wounded hero healed by the restored talisman. Indeed, the film is rife with Arthurian and chivalric imagery, complete with castles and broadswords and a definite Mordred figure in Kylo Ren. However, it is very telling that the film does not end with Luke taking this film’s talisman – the lightsaber – from Rey. For better or worse, the fight is in the hands of the new generation.

A final point about costuming: Rey and Kylo’s robes are deliberate black-and-white parallels to each other, while Finn is dressed in black and brown, representative of his being caught between the two worlds of the First Order and the Resistance. But at the end, Rey (after having the briefest of brushes with the Dark Side as she takes down Kylo – which could have had an extra beat of emphasis, but it’s there in the music and Ridley’s performance) has added a grey vest to her outfit, while Finn is the one all in white. Again, Rey may be the ultimate hero, but Finn will be the moral center of these films.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Wow. Wonder if this is what JJ meant by being intrigued by the idea of: Who is Luke Skywalker?

I thought that too while reading it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Oh dear, there maybe no Rey's parentage reveal in VIII

http://www.etonline.com/news/179765...ises_satisfying_answer_to_star_wars_theories/

“I’ve seen all of the theories… What I do know is that we’re going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying, because Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens but in the entire galaxy, and she deserves it. So we’ll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was—it’s something that happened a long time ago [in a galaxy] far, far away, we’re just telling you what happened.”

We'll see how it's handled but that's a bit disappointing

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Oh dear, there maybe no Rey's parentage reveal in VIII

http://www.etonline.com/news/179765...ises_satisfying_answer_to_star_wars_theories/

“I’ve seen all of the theories… What I do know is that we’re going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying, because Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens but in the entire galaxy, and she deserves it. So we’ll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was—it’s something that happened a long time ago [in a galaxy] far, far away, we’re just telling you what happened.”

I think his answer is carefully formed, making sure to not giveaway whether or not the answer lays in VIII or not.

On another note, that's the first public confirmation I have seen that Derek Connolly is writing the Script for IX with Trevorrow.

 

[The Librarian]

Oh dear, there maybe no Rey's parentage reveal in VIII

http://www.etonline.com/news/179765...ises_satisfying_answer_to_star_wars_theories/

“I’ve seen all of the theories… What I do know is that we’re going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying, because Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens but in the entire galaxy, and she deserves it. So we’ll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was—it’s something that happened a long time ago [in a galaxy] far, far away, we’re just telling you what happened.”

hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[-griffy-]

I think his answer is carefully formed, making sure to not giveaway whether or not the answer lays in VIII or not.

On another note, that's the first public confirmation I have seen that Derek Connolly is writing the Script for IX with Trevorrow.

Wait did I miss something? Don't see a mention of Connolly at all there.

Also yeah, I don't think you can read anything into his statements there. It's all just fluff.

 

[Monocle]

Some interesting analysis/reading from other forums I thought was worth reposting here:

Good stuff, thanks for posting.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Wait did I miss something? Don't see a mention of Connolly at all there.

Also yeah, I don't think you can read anything into his statements there. It's all just fluff.

Whoops, it's this article that mentions that.

 

[Ohwiseone]

Either the answer is going to be something amazing, or one of those "No duh" long-drawn out things.

I'll say this, I WOULD not want to be directing IX.

I like Trevorrow, I know why people are "blah" on him, (and he is writing IX). but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

It's kinda funny how Trevorrow went full circle - he was tentatively lined up to work on VII with Brad Bird. Bird pulled out, so he was freed up - then Kathleen Kennedy suggested Colin to Frank Marshall for Jurassic World, and now from there he's going on to direct IX.

 

[witness]

Some interesting analysis/reading from other forums I thought was worth reposting here:

I love all of this, thank you for posting! 5th showing this weekend!

 

[The Librarian]

It's kinda funny how Trevorrow went full circle - he was tentatively lined up to work on VII with Brad Bird. Bird pulled out, so he was freed up - then Kathleen Kennedy suggested Colin to Frank Marshall for Jurassic World, and now from there he's going on to direct IX.

it's like poetr–

 

[Lifejumper]

Holy shit Jurassic worlds writer on IX? What a step down man. Guess box office results do the talking when deciding.

 

[Ohwiseone]

It's kinda funny how Trevorrow went full circle - he was tentatively lined up to work on VII with Brad Bird. Bird pulled out, so he was freed up - then Kathleen Kennedy suggested Colin to Frank Marshall for Jurassic World, and now from there he's going on to direct IX.

Apart of me is wondering if that is how he got IX?

I doubt it was because "LOOK AT ALL THE MONEY HE MADE" I trust lucasfilm more than that.

 

[Veelk]

Holy shit Jurassic worlds writer on IX? What a step down man. Guess box office results do the talking when deciding.

In fairness, look at the joke of a relaunch that was Star Trek Into Darkness. And to a lesser extent (in that it's an enjoyable movie, but still has massive problems) Star Trek 2009.

I had little confidence in TFA because it was Abrams directing, but whatever Lucasfilm did, they had JJ Abrams straighten the fuck up when making Star Wars. The flaws that are present in Star Trek are all the more noticable in retrospect after we see what he's capable of in TFA.

 

[greatestjediever]

Holy shit Jurassic worlds writer on IX? What a step down man. Guess box office results do the talking when deciding.

Rian Johnson (writer and director of VIII) is writing IX (at least the initial treatment). Trevorrow is directing.

edit: oops didn't read the whole article that says Trevorrow and Connoly writing the script. Eek.

 

[Cth]

It all boils down to the pitch which JJ is so impressed by he regrets not directing the next one.

Or to put it another way, who'd have thought the Russo brothers would have delivered the Captain America film they did, with Marvel's guidance based solely on Community?

 

[MMarston]

Whoops, it's this article that mentions that.

goddamn it

 

[Lifejumper]

In fairness, look at the joke of a relaunch that was Star Trek Into Darkness. And to a lesser extent (in that it's an enjoyable movie, but still has massive problems) Star Trek 2009.

I had little confidence in TFA because it was Abrams directing, but whatever Lucasfilm did, they had JJ Abrams straighten the fuck up when making Star Wars. The flaws that are present in Star Trek are all the more noticable in retrospect after we see what he's capable of in TFA.

I liked both Trek movies from JJ. Im not a Trek fan tho, maybe thats the point.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I liked both Trek movies from JJ. Im not a Trek fan tho, maybe thats the point.

I am a trek fan and I liked into darkness. I feel people are way to critical of JJtrek

 

[Veelk]

I liked both Trek movies from JJ. Im not a Trek fan tho, maybe thats the point.

That's fine, but if you placed them under the scrutiny of analysis (meaning thematic significance, representational diversity, structural coherence), it really falls part, while TFA comes out all the stronger.

Like, people bitch about the contrivances of Rey using the force like all Jedi always have, but in Trek you have Kirk being abandoned on a planet within walking distance of Spock by sheer coincidence when they had no expectation of finding each other, which gives Kirk all the information he needs to save the Enterprise. And I've never seen any analysis of Nero that articulated the thematic signifance of his character in either the movie or the franchise as a whole, or explained how he just fucked around in deep space for 20 years waiting for Spock to get through even though they could go to Romulus in that entire time and take measures to prevent what happened before to happen here.

 

[Brakke]

TFA isn't an aberration in JJ's filmography. It's better than Into Darkness certainly but it's very much in the JJ oeuvre. The strengths and flaws of TFA track pretty closely with those of his Star Wars movies (good casts and chemistry, good energy, sloppy contrivances, weirdly little gravity given to mass murder, nonsense geography and sense of space). Does Colin Trevorrow even have strengths? I only ever saw Jurassic World from him.

 

[Lifejumper]

That's fine, but if you placed them under the scrutiny of analysis (meaning thematic significance, representational diversity, structural coherence), it really falls part, while TFA comes out all the stronger.

Might be. Im just scared because of JW, same writer (Derek Connoly) and director. Would love to eat crow, but I guess its just wait and see. Maybe Trevorrow will direct other movies in between 7 and 9 .... get some experience.

 

[Brakke]

Might be. Im just scared because of JW, same writer (Derek Connoly) and director. Would love to eat crow, but I guess its just wait and see. Maybe Trevorrow will direct other movies in between 7 and 9 .... get some experience.

He's making something wildly different than Jurassic World and then a Jurassic World sequel. Presumably he has room for another one or two in there?

 

[zma1013]

I am a trek fan and I liked into darkness. I feel people are way to critical of JJtrek

Into Darkness is fun to watch for the jokes and action and whatnot but its writing is a mess and the main characters are knocked back down to exactly where they were in the previous film. Any growth that happened for them was erased immediately and we are left to watch them go through the motions all over again. Then you have a cameo that actually hurts the story and characters and other nonsense like surprise naked girl for literally no reason and it deserves the criticism.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Might be. Im just scared because of JW, same writer (Derek Connoly) and director. Would love to eat crow, but I guess its just wait and see. Maybe Trevorrow will direct other movies in between 7 and 9 .... get some experience.

He just wrapped on one film due out this year, called The Book of Henry.

He was supposed to write and direct a film called Intelligent Life as well, so time will tell there.

 

[MMarston]

Trevorrow did some pretty decent character drama work in Safety Not Guaranteed, but it wasn't anything remarkable. Felt like the generic modern american-indie kind of vibe.

I feel like I need to watch it again though. It got so much praise but I just never dug the film.

 

[Brakke]

Into Darkness is fun to watch for the jokes and action and whatnot but its writing is a mess and the main characters are knocked back down to exactly where they were in the previous film. Any growth that happened for them was erased immediately and we are left to watch them go through the motions all over again. Then you have a cameo that actually hurts the story and characters and other nonsense like surprise naked girl for literally no reason and it deserves the criticism.

Into Darkness also introduced immortality and obviated the need for starships. That movie was a catastrophe. TFA sort of threatened to make a same everything-is-forever-changed mistake with Starkiller's omnipotence and Han's hyperspace hijinks, but we can probably skate past those by saying Starkiller is dead and nobody's as "daring" as Han was.

 

[Zeus7]

Why has it never clicked with me until now that Rey + Ben = Ren.

Knights of Rey and Ben

 

[Veelk]

Into Darkness also introduced immortality and obviated the need for starships. That movie was a catastrophe. TFA sort of threatened to make a same everything-is-forever-changed mistake with Starkiller's omnipotence and Han's hyperspace hijinks, but we can probably skate past those by saying Starkiller is dead and nobody's as "daring" as Han was.

Technology advancing that alter how people live their lives isn't a flaw and would make for a potentially interesting story. It's hardly a mistake in and of itself.

What would starkiller base even 'forever change'? Utilizing solar power? Destroying planets?

Why has it never clicked with me until now that Rey + Ben = Ren.

Knights of Rey and Ben

Don't encourage the shippers please.

 

[Brakke]

Technology advancing that alter how people live their lives isn't a flaw and would make for a potentially interesting story. It's hardly a mistake in and of itself.

What would starkiller base even 'forever change'? Utilizing solar power? Destroying planets?

Imagine the status-quo shift that comes out of Han's ability to enter atmosphere at lightspeed/hyperspeed totally undetected. All our battles are resolved instantly and silently. Hoth doesn't have a battle, it just explodes one day as a dozen TIE bombers materialize directly above the base and unleash holy hellfire. It's like kind of a fun horrific sci fi world but requires the entire aesthetic of the universe to change and it sort of obviates our need for fun acrobatics and space battles. If you were to really adopt that technique as something that's available it changes the universe of Star Wars into something totally different than what it is today.

It's not a "flaw", but it threatens to move the universe in a direction that nobody really wants it to go. It would be a mistake to try and adapt it going forward. Plus it's dramatically a mess. There wasn't any tension to Han pulling that move off. "Failure" there is three of our beloved heroes unceremoniously pancaking into the planet. So if anybody ever tries it again we're either totally certain that it will succeed or else the movie has to be prepared to unceremoniously pancake someone we care about to death to establish that it's actually dangerous.

Starkiller was different than a Death Star in that a Death Star at least enters orbit around its targets and then takes some time to warm up. Starkiller just kills you and you have no way of anticipating it or evacuating. This is a series that has damn swordfights specifically because swordfights are more dramatically exciting than gun battles, because we want our characters on screen with eachother. Two superpowers silently sniping planets off the board isn't what anybody wants.

 

[1044]

Imagine the status-quo shift that comes out of Han's ability to enter atmosphere at lightspeed/hyperspeed totally undetected. All our battles are resolved instantly and silently. Hoth doesn't have a battle, it just explodes one day as a dozen TIE bombers materialize directly above the base and unleash holy hellfire. It's like kind of a fun horrific sci fi world but requires the entire aesthetic of the universe to change and it sort of obviates our need for fun acrobatics and space battles. If you were to really adopt that technique as something that's available it changes the universe of Star Wars into something totally different than what it is today.

It's not a "flaw", but it threatens to move the universe in a direction that nobody really wants it to go. It would be a mistake to try and adapt it going forward. Plus it's dramatically a mess. There wasn't any tension to Han pulling that move off. "Failure" there is three of our beloved heroes unceremoniously pancaking into the planet. So if anybody ever tries it again we're either totally certain that it will succeed or else the movie has to be prepared to unceremoniously pancake someone we care about to death to establish that it's actually dangerous.

Starkiller was different than a Death Star in that a Death Star at least enters orbit around its targets and then takes some time to warm up. Starkiller just kills you and you have no way of anticipating it or evacuating. This is a series that has damn swordfights specifically because swordfights are more dramatically exciting than gun battles, because we want our characters on screen with eachother. Two superpowers silently sniping planets off the board isn't what anybody wants.

I think it's easy enough to hand-wave this away. Nowhere near as universe-changing as Khan's personal anywhere-teleporter. Just have some supplementary material for the next movie mention something along the lines of:

After Han Solo's hyperspace infiltration of the Star Killer base achieved notoriety, everyone calibrated their shield generators to close this exploit.

Or mention that the shield manufacturers improved their designs so now this can no longer happen except to old out of date stuff.

 

[Veelk]

Imagine the status-quo shift that comes out of Han's ability to enter atmosphere at lightspeed/hyperspeed totally undetected. All our battles are resolved instantly and silently. Hoth doesn't have a battle, it just explodes one day as a dozen TIE bombers materialize directly above the base and unleash holy hellfire. It's like kind of a fun horrific sci fi world but requires the entire aesthetic of the universe to change and it sort of obviates our need for fun acrobatics and space battles. If you were to really adopt that technique as something that's available it changes the universe of Star Wars into something totally different than what it is today.

It's not a "flaw", but it threatens to move the universe in a direction that nobody really wants it to go. It would be a mistake to try and adapt it going forward. Plus it's dramatically a mess. There wasn't any tension to Han pulling that move off. "Failure" there is three of our beloved heroes unceremoniously pancaking into the planet. So if anybody ever tries it again we're either totally certain that it will succeed or else the movie has to be prepared to unceremoniously pancake someone we care about to death to establish that it's actually dangerous.

Starkiller was different than a Death Star in that a Death Star at least enters orbit around its targets and then takes some time to warm up. Starkiller just kills you and you have no way of anticipating it or evacuating. This is a series that has damn swordfights specifically because swordfights are more dramatically exciting than gun battles, because we want our characters on screen with eachother. Two superpowers silently sniping planets off the board isn't what anybody wants.

Yeah, I don't agree with that at all.

Tension doesn't come from foreknowledge of whether it will work, but from the characters uncertainty in that it will. Otherwise, there would never be anything thrilling about rereading or rewatching a story you've already seen. Besides, there are other options besides 'making it' or 'dying' if it's tried again. What if they manage it, but the First Order learned from the first movie and found a way to counter such a reappearance? What if they crashed and they survive, but their ship was destroyed? What if they manage to make it, but it's no longer possible to do it stealthily? Or what if there are special circumstances that of a particular planet that make it work differently in some way, either elevating or lowering the risk?

It's an imaginary problem that any decent writer can imagine themselves out of. Besides, from what is established in TFA, no one woulddo this if they can help it. The status quo that your referring to would mostly change to "The status quo shift would be "Holy fuck, all our pilots are dying on impact, why are we doing this?!" Han used that tactic because it was the only option they had. It's established that it's not something that is practical to perform regularly. It worked once. That doesn't mean there would be no tension because it working once has no bearing on whether it would work again. Try watching someone play russian roulette and tell me that it's not tense just because the only two outcomes are "either they will die or they'll be fine".

Starkiller base is the same way. "Oh, they built another SK? Well, we developed this thing that fuck with their coordination from afar, allowing us to counter them to some extent." The tension comes from the characters anxiety of wondering if it will work, not from us knowing if it will or not. You can make a planet sniper battle pretty fucking cool if you wanted to.

If the status quo is changed, you can't really speak that everyone would be against it.

 

[Queen of Hunting]

well abrams is still going to be involved in the next film

Although no longer directing, Abrams will be staying on with the “Star Wars” franchise as an executive producer.

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/jj-abrams-star-wars-episode-viii-1201667205/

 

[Brakke]

Tension doesn't come from foreknowledge of whether it will work, but from the characters uncertainty in that it will. Otherwise, there would never be anything thrilling about rereading or rewatching a story you've already seen. Besides, there are other options besides 'making it' or 'dying' if it's tried again. What if they manage it, but the First Order learned from the first movie and found a way to counter such a reappearance? What if they crashed and they survive, but their ship was destroyed? What if they manage to make it, but it's no longer possible to do it stealthily? Or what if there are special circumstances that of a particular planet that make it work differently in some way, either elevating or lowering the risk?

Certainly any of your propositions *could* happen but they're all kind of kludge-y. There's no way to anticipate any of them, since Han's move doesn't follow any rules in real physics and this movie didn't care about establishing fake physics. So almost all of those require the Thank You For Smoking move of someone saying "good thing we invented this space thing that lets us smoke in space". "Good thing Han's trick didn't penetrate our new shields" isn't interesting at all. Just ignore Han's trick entirely going forward. Trying to patch it over later makes it retroactively even more of a kludge than it was the first time.

It's an imaginary problem that any decent writer can imagine themselves out of. Besides, from what is established in TFA, no one woulddo this if they can help it. The status quo that your referring to would mostly change to "The status quo shift would be "Holy fuck, all our pilots are dying on impact, why are we doing this?!" Han used that tactic because it was the only option they had. It's established that it's not something that is practical to perform regularly. It worked once. That doesn't mean there would be no tension because it working once has no bearing on whether it would work again. Try watching someone play russian roulette and tell me that it's not tense just because the only two outcomes are "either they will die or they'll be fine".

If Han played Russian Roulette there wouldn't be any tension at all. Star Wars characters don't just die arbitrarily. That's not the aesthetic Star Wars works with. The First Order wouldn't care about all their pilots dying on impact: they have a huge stock of automatons they don't care about at the ready.

You can make a planet sniper battle pretty fucking cool if you wanted to.

Of course you *could* do that, but Star Wars *won't* do that. Star Wars is WWII cruisers and aircraft carriers and fascism; planet sniper battle is Cold War kids taking cover from nukes under desks. I love a good story of hopeless nihilism and the omnipresent threat of instant death but Star Wars doesn't love that. I don't want Finn being a competent middle-manager stationed on a remote superweapon facility, I want him doing heroic stuff.

 

[Veelk]

Certainly any of your propositions *could* happen but they're all kind of kludge-y. There's no way to anticipate any of them, since Han's move doesn't follow any rules in real physics and this movie didn't care about establishing fake physics. So almost all of those require the Thank You For Smoking move of someone saying "good thing we invented this space thing that lets us smoke in space". "Good thing Han's trick didn't penetrate our new shields" isn't interesting at all. Just ignore Han's trick entirely going forward. Trying to patch it over later makes it retroactively even more of a kludge than it was the first time.

Neither does the force, but they create tension within that. That's a strength about fiction, not a weakness. You make up your own rules, and from there you make someone making soap an intense action scene. It's just harder to accomplish, but that's the writer's problem, not the audience's.

If Han played Russian Roulette there wouldn't be any tension at all. Star Wars characters don't just die arbitrarily. That's not the aesthetic Star Wars works with. The First Order wouldn't care about all their pilots dying on impact: they have a huge stock of automatons they don't care about at the ready.

Why are you assuming that a game of Russian Roullette with Han would be arbitrary? Stories job is to create the context of a scene to make it interesting. That's not just star wars, that's any story. The actual content of the scene matters only insofar as it relates everything else that is happening. For example, Han was either going to convince Ben or he would die. A similar gamble. He will either make it out, or he won't. What makes it interesting is the context surrounding the turning point.

Of course you *could* do that, but Star Wars *won't* do that. Star Wars is WWII cruisers and aircraft carriers and fascism; planet sniper battle is Cold War kids taking cover from nukes under desks. I love a good story of hopeless nihilism and the omnipresent threat of instant death but Star Wars doesn't love that. I don't want Finn being a competent middle-manager stationed on a remote superweapon facility, I want him doing heroic stuff.

*Sigh* there is nothing I hate more than trying to box a series in because it has analogies to outside events that are loosely connected at best. Especially when the cold war analogy is your own invention you literally made up on the spot. How about you have you frame your planet sniper battle about brazen heroics? If you think those two are mutually exclusive, you clearly haven't read enough stories that combine seemingly antithetical concepts. This one wouldn't even be particularly hard to do. Hell, you could combine the old and new space battles. Lets say taht they have another star killer base, and how the republic has their own planet destoryer, and the central conflict is both of these planet killers trying to stall the other enough to get ready their giant laser and fire first. That's just one way. The number of ways they can pull it off is infinite.

There is no cake you can have that you can't also eat when it comes to fiction.

And the argument that it can't happen because it hasn't happened is nonsensical. You can say that about anything. Star Wars was has always been about a white male hero in pretty much every canon material of note, before and after the old EU was eradicated. Now we have Rey and Finn as the heads of the new trilogy and VOILA! Star Wars has changed. That's how story writing works. Things were one way at one point. Now it's different. The same in some ways, different in others.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Oh dear, there maybe no Rey's parentage reveal in VIII

http://www.etonline.com/news/179765...ises_satisfying_answer_to_star_wars_theories/

“I’ve seen all of the theories… What I do know is that we’re going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying, because Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens but in the entire galaxy, and she deserves it. So we’ll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was—it’s something that happened a long time ago [in a galaxy] far, far away, we’re just telling you what happened.”

and with that... I'm out.

Speculation is one thing, but plot details (or a lack there of) is another.

I'll get my EP8 info from the movie itself.

 

[Toxi]

Some interesting analysis/reading from other forums I thought was worth reposting here:

http://icsfilm.org/reviews/star-wars-the-force-awakens-j-j-abrams/

It’s interesting to note that of the film’s three principal characters, all three are introduced wearing masks and, over the course of the film, lose their masks until all three stand fully revealed at their final confrontation.

...

A final point about costuming: Rey and Kylo’s robes are deliberate black-and-white parallels to each other, while Finn is dressed in black and brown, representative of his being caught between the two worlds of the First Order and the Resistance. But at the end, Rey (after having the briefest of brushes with the Dark Side as she takes down Kylo – which could have had an extra beat of emphasis, but it’s there in the music and Ridley’s performance) has added a grey vest to her outfit, while Finn is the one all in white. Again, Rey may be the ultimate hero, but Finn will be the moral center of these films.

How the hell did I not notice this

Like it's the most blatant, obvious thematic imagery imaginable and I completely missed it.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Technology advancing that alter how people live their lives isn't a flaw and would make for a potentially interesting story. It's hardly a mistake in and of itself.

What would starkiller base even 'forever change'? Utilizing solar power? Destroying planets?



Don't encourage the shippers please.

People ship cousins dating?

Spoiler

I mean I guess its not exactly uncharted territory for Star Wars....

 

[Veelk]

Han's hyperspace trick is a flaw in the same way the Star Trek stuff you mention is a flaw: it's a little handwavey thing used for a throwaway solution to a problem, that would totally change the world if they took it at all seriously.

This type of flaw will bother people who notice that sort of thing, and probably not for others who don't notice those kinds of holes in worldbuilding. I think most of the Star Wars audience is the latter type.

It does bother me a bit, if for no other reason than that there are always other ways to solve plot problems than to make up handwavey tech stuff that you then proceed to ignore forever.

I mean, it establishes that such a thing is possible, but not practical to use consistently. For it to change the world, it would have to be researched so as to remove the obvious risk factors, because as of now, any fleet of ships that tried to do what Han did would just lose that fleet except for a lucky few that manage it.

If there is a problem with it, it's the contrivance that this impractical, suicidal trick would work the one time they needed it to without more reason than that they needed it to work then and there. But it seems clear to me why it couldn't be used by the general military at large.

 

[MMarston]

and with that... I'm out.

Speculation is one thing, but plot details (or a lack there of) is another.

I'll get my EP8 info from the movie itself.

Lol spoiler blackouts already

 

[Fencedude]

People ship cousins dating?

Spoiler

I mean I guess its not exactly uncharted territory for Star Wars....

Like, in wide swaths of the world cousins marrying isn't particularly odd or frowned upon.

And on the list of "reasons why Rey/Ren is a bad ship" the fact that they might be cousins is really, really far down

 

[Brakke]

Neither does the force, but they create tension within that. That's a strength about fiction, not a weakness. You make up your own rules, and from there you make someone making soap an intense action scene. It's just harder to accomplish, but that's the writer's problem, not the audience's.

Sometimes characters using the Force carries tension and sometimes it doesn't. I agree that writing tense stories about the Force is a writer's problem. Some problems are harder than others.

Why are you assuming that a game of Russian Roullette with Han would be arbitrary? Stories job is to create the context of a scene to make it interesting. That's not just star wars, that's any story. The actual content of the scene matters only insofar as it relates everything else that is happening. For example, Han was either going to convince Ben or he would die. A similar gamble. He will either make it out, or he won't. What makes it interesting is the context surrounding the turning point.

Convincing Ben or being killed by Ben is not an analogy for Russian Roulette. Russian Roulette is a coinflip, convincing Ben is a character clash, a conflict whose outcome Han can influence.

Obviously the next movie could be anything. But this movie made painstaking efforts to affirm that there is a box around Star Wars. It's not the exact box that we've always known but it is quite similar. Stormtroopers don't assemble in obvious Nazi-looking manner on accident, they didn't fly around in D Day-landing-looking APCs on accident. We should expect future movies to continue to challenge our expectations and to worry at the edges, but there's a core to Star Wars that this film was clearly interested in preserving. The next one could reject that but then we're traveling into lands of serial incoherence. This movie was the most #branded-ass release since like Minions. There's some line beyond which subverting expectations moves from delightful to alienating. It'd really be something incredible if they wanted to go and seriously test that line.

 

[Toxi]

The real problem with the Han hyperspace trick is that it's incredibly easy with FTL travel to destroy any planet by throwing an object at it really fast. In Star Wars this was somewhat compensated by not having the characters use hyperspace travel directly from and to planets before The Force Awakens.

Which is a problem with a lot of science fiction, but hardly one that's gonna ruin a movie for me.

 

[Veelk]

Convincing Ben or being killed by Ben is not an analogy for Russian Roulette. Russian Roulette is a coinflip, convincing Ben is a character clash, a conflict whose outcome Han can influence.

Not at all. It's Ben's decisions. He's placing his life in his sons hand's, outside his control. By this logic, Han would also be able to influence the conflict of a russian roulette game just by quitting. He doesn't pull the trigger, and suddenly it's influenced. The point of chance games is that it takes control away from you. Han places his life in his son's hands. It's interesting because of the emotional and thematic connections, but in the context of the universe, Ben didn't have to kill Han. He could have come to the light. There were legitimate reasons to do both. So him choosing one or the other is an a character decision, but one that is made without Han's control, much like a coin flip would be outside his control.

Obviously the next movie could be anything. But this movie made painstaking efforts to affirm that there is a box around Star Wars. It's not the exact box that we've always known but it is quite similar. Stormtroopers don't assemble in obvious Nazi-looking manner on accident, they didn't fly around in D Day-landing-looking APCs on accident. We should expect future movies to continue to challenge our expectations and to worry at the edges, but there's a core to Star Wars that this film was clearly interested in preserving. The next one could reject that but then we're traveling into lands of serial incoherence. This movie was the most #branded-ass release since like Minions. There's some line beyond which subverting expectations moves from delightful to alienating. It'd really be something incredible if they wanted to go and seriously test that line.

The key difference is between us is that your focused on the 'what' of what they would change star wars into, as if there are certain pieces of content that is forbidden. But content isn't relevant to me. It's how that content is implemented. Subversion doesn't rely on what is subverted, but in what way it's subverted. Now, that said, they're probably not going to suddenly turn it into something else in the sense of thematic overview. But that's never what we were talking about.

This wasn't a discussion about historical allusions or wahtever (which, btw, have no bearing on dictating their actions in the plot, just the particular archetype they're invoking). It's about whether a new weapon would mean a new way of waging war. The idea that this new way can't be framed into a way that works with the Star War's themes is what I object to.

 

[GamerSoul]

Some interesting analysis/reading from other forums I thought was worth reposting here:

Pretty awesome write-up. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Brakke]

The real problem with the Han hyperspace trick is that it's incredibly easy with FTL travel to destroy any planet by throwing an object at it really fast. In Star Wars this was somewhat compensated by not having the characters use hyperspace travel directly from and to planets before The Force Awakens.

Which is a problem with a lot of science fiction, but hardly one that's gonna ruin a movie for me.

Yeah Star Wars historically solved this problem by just not being science fiction. It's kind of fine as long as you treat hyper drives as given but when you start exploring the parameters of hyperspace and start challenging / inventing rules around what's subvert-able, you're kind of playing with fire. Better to just leave it as "interstellar travel" and not as potential for plot contrivances.

The idea that this new way can't be framed into a way that works with the Star War's themes is what I object to.

I dunno. Obviously I concede that such a transition is conceivably possible but it remains unclear to me why such a thing would be worth the effort of sorting out. Why shift a paradigm if you're not going to engage with the new paradigm? If you're going to engage a new paradigm you're going to have to let go some of your old themes and introduce some new.

Your little toy example of two superweapons opens a clear problem. More and more powerful super weapons pushes in a direction that I don't think gels with Star Wars generally. How does our wise old master counsel our brash young kid full of potential on the responsible use of power (defensively) and the hazards of hubris while the Good Guys accumulate worlds-shattering power? All the previous movies want us to cheer for democracy and checks again tyranny, it'll be kind of crazy if we just go and give unelected, unaccountable Leia a superweapon. Accumlating power at all is pretty strongly bad-guy identified in this series if we take the Grand Army of the Republic (an expansion of power entrusted to or corruptable by one guy) as akin to developing a superweapon.

I wonder how much the directors / writers of the next couple are going to care about preserving thematic coherence for the whole Star Wars series versus allowing new themes to develop in this trilogy.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I definitely noticed a strong use of color and light/shadow in the movie overall, but I wouldn't say it was leaning heavily towards any specific color. The hyperspace stuff is blue because that's what hyperspace in Star Wars looks like. The stars streak out into a blue blur and the wormhole is a noisy blue thing:

Now with modern technology they are also able to "project" light from the outside environment into the cockpit and onto the characters, so that blue from hyperspace kind of washes over things during those scenes.

There's more colors too though. Jakku obviously has a lot of orange (not only because of desert/sand, but even pushed with the fire in the first scene), Takadona (where Maz's castle is located) has a lot of green obviously because of the trees, but the water is also pushed towards that color as well (which ends up contrasting nicely with the explosions and fire of the battle), Starkiller base has a greenish/red color scheme in interiors, and they use red light a lot around Kylo Ren, often in really subtle ways.

There's the scene early on when a guy is giving him a report about Jakku, and Kylo is facing away from him and only lit partially by a white light. As the convo goes on, Kylo turns towards him slightly and a red highlight starts to catch the metal on his mask, then as he turns more it becomes more prominent before he finally ignites his saber and destroys the console behind him. The gradual increase in red light matches his temper before he explodes.

Then of course there's the whole bridge scene which has been talked about, with the white/blue light on one side of his face that gradually fades away to darkness leaving him bathed in red right before he kills Han.

I thought the cinematography and use of color was really striking (along with some really nice extended takes with motivated camera movement in the vein of Spielberg). Easily the best in the series since ESB.

Great post. I really like how JJ not only used the red light with Ren, but similar imagry with Rey. The beginning shots of Rey is not just her in the star destroyer, but she's exploring it with a blue light attached to her, lighting the darkness.

In the ending duel, when Ren has Rey pinned against the precipice, we see their crossed sabers reflected in their eyes, red and blue. Rey closes her eyes and focuses, as Maz had told her to do. When she opens them, the only reflection in her eyes is the blue from her saber; she's freed herself from fear and hate. Cutting back to Kylo we see the crossed sabers still in his eyes - and his confidence gone, replaced with fear at what he now sees in Rey. It's a great visual parallel to the Han's death.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I think a big problem at the end was the decision to give the primary character arc of the film to someone who isn't the primary character. It was hard to care about Poe Dameron when we saw him for all of five minutes.

They could have better invested the audience in the shield generator destruction + base destruction by splitting up the two leads and having one in the sky and one on the ground, but as it is Finn is required on the ground to complete his character arc by acting self sacrificially, and Rey is required on the ground to finish the movie by picking up the lightsaber and fighting Kylo Renn.