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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
i don't believe you're real
PeskyToaster
Member
Yeah, back story is really what made the originals great. I remember all the things we knew about ol' Sheev when he was just a giant floating hood.
I don't think anything you said was correct.
Every time he posts I have to sit back and take a minute to think about how humanity got to the point where some of his opinions are allowed.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
As soon as someone says TFA is a "blatant clone" of ANH I stop listening. I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.
The two films have quite a few similarities. They also have quite a few differences.
The two films have quite a few similarities. They also have quite a few differences.
Glass Shark
Banned
.
I did, in previous thread
I don't think this community is a good indicator either, because I haven't talked with anybody happy about him outside of this thread. I was kinda surprised by reaction to my post that he is the weakest part of the movie
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Star Wars is honestly not that similar to The Hidden Fortress.
The Lamonster
Member
Really? Vader was indeed mysterious, but he still had a very clear backstory and a finite place in the universe as did Tarkin. And before the Emperor ever showed up, he was referenced as the leader of the Empire and Vader's master.
What do we know about Snoke and why should we care? Plus, as an adult, I instantly care less about the CGI characters than the human (or even droid) characters.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
True, but there are so many similarities that I can't help but with they would have done more to set TFA apart. I really didn't need yet another super weapon to destroy for instance. We saw that a couple of time already, and it was one of the reasons I stopped reading some of the novels back in the day when the EU was new. Every book tried to top the Death Star for a new super weapon. Lets come up with something new.
It didn't help that TFA's super weapon was super-stupid either.
Glass Shark
Banned
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Freewheelin'
Member
How is this different from Snoke?
FlashbladeGAF
Member
It's not.
Remember the beginning when he killed the old man.
That was someone he knew before becoming Kylo Ren, The old man says I know you and you can't deny your family.
Kylo then killed him.
Kylo descended further into the dark side at that point just as Poe tried to shoot him. That descent made him more powerful and he was allowed to stop the blast.
Fast forward to the final scene with Han.
He was basically doing the same thing, but this time he thought he would be even more powerful because he was literally going to reject/deny his old self by killing his father. But, the act of killing his father had the opposite effect, (you can see it on his face) and this allowed Chewie to get a hit off him.
Kylo will definitely level up by the next movie, but his father's death didn't give him the boost he was looking for like it did in the beginning.
And this internal struggle and the ability of Driver to portray those emotions so easily on screen, not only made Kylo and interesting villain(compared to past villains introductions), but made Adam Driver a great addition to the cast.
As an adult?
I'm pretty sure that once people get over the hype and get more critical towards the movie you are going to see a lot of backslash threads in this forum.
Even more so than usual.
PeskyToaster
Member
We know just as much, man. Snoke is the Supreme Leader of the First Order with ties to the dark side. He's the one pulling the strings at this moment as far as we know. We didn't even know Vader's place in the hierarchy after ANH. Or if his name was Darth or if that was a title. I think we know more about Ren, Hux, and Snoke than we did their counterparts in ANH and ESB. We didn't even see the Emperor until the second film. I don't even know if he was mentioned in ANH.
I don't think it's gonna be that bad. All everyone wanted was a movie better than the prequels and that's what they got.
QuantumZebra
Member
Agreed.
It's really starting to become clear to me that some people are grasping at straws to criticize this movie as worse than it is.
It's not Citizen Kane, but it sure as hell doesn't "Stink" and it sure as hell is better than anything that has hit the mainstream box office in YEARS next to Mad Max.
Teletraan1
Banned
The theater I was in had a bunch of guffaws when he took off the mask. Guy just has a goofy look too him. It is such a contrast to the badass that just stopped a blaster shot mid air for minutes or pulled a grown man from across the room into his hand. I guess masked faces reveals have to be a letdown. Vader was pretty goofy looking too when he was finally unmasked at the end of RotJ.
The Lamonster
Member
Snoke is a name (a dumb name, too). Emperor is a title.
Vader was a former Jedi who was turned to the dark side by someone strong in the dark side of the force, the Emperor. Snoke, is just like, a guy, or creature, that may or may not be a dark side user?
He just feels tacked on. Forced into the story (pun intended). They needed the "emperor palpatine" of this story.
Yeah - do you think little kids care about CGI characters as much as adults? I hate them. I can't stand that there are at least 3 characters in this movie that are still fully CGI. Thought we'd be done with that by now, after all the horrendous prequel CGI.
LegendofLex
Member
After a third viewing of the film, I'm no longer determined that Kylo is past the point of redemption. I'd originally interpreted the light/dark imagery during Han's death scene as quite final: his face is half-bathed in light, half-coated in darkness; then you see the sun go out; then his face is cloaked in red; then he kills Han. Boom. Over.
This clearly doesn't give him the closure he wanted, or bring an end to his pain - he's given a terrible wound by Chewie's bowcaster and we see him having to beat off the pain during the fight, and then of course he's left broken at the end of the movie - but there's another element I hadn't noticed.
Though the light fades from the left half of his face shortly before he kills Han, you can see light start to creep over the opposite side of his face almost immediately after.
Not only did killing his father not end his pain and conflict, it didn't even snuff out the light in him.
This clearly doesn't give him the closure he wanted, or bring an end to his pain - he's given a terrible wound by Chewie's bowcaster and we see him having to beat off the pain during the fight, and then of course he's left broken at the end of the movie - but there's another element I hadn't noticed.
Though the light fades from the left half of his face shortly before he kills Han, you can see light start to creep over the opposite side of his face almost immediately after.
Not only did killing his father not end his pain and conflict, it didn't even snuff out the light in him.
That was the point. Kylo is an immature and conflicted Vader cosplayer, not some hardened badass.
lol
"From Shakesperesn Saga to Harry Potter in Space"
Quality article.
QuantumZebra
Member
Yea I mean Tarkin had his balls in a purse just like Hux apparently has Kylo's.
The Empire is rooted in extreme order/authoritarianism. Some rogue "badass" Sith going ham on everybody out the gate with an army following him for no reason would make zero fucking sense.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
That's the point.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Well of course. They have to work in an opening so the direct ROTJ clone makes sense.
QuantumZebra
Member
Well to be fair, Vader still had light in him as well (Luke even points out that he can sense it in ROTJ), and the dude slaughtered children and people in general by the fucking hundreds.
Redemption can still be had, but it is going to be at the cost of his life, I think. We aren't going to get a "Kylo turned good and surprise, Rey is evil!" twist.
Damn. No lies detected when it comes to JJ though.
Robdraggoo
Member
Emperor was mentioned briefly in anh. Gov tarkin said that he abolished the senate in the scene when vader force chokes the dude.
How else are you going to create a gravitationally stable superbase/superlaser in space?
This is where the arms race as taken military technology in the Star Wars universe.
No one is grasping at straws a lot of the complaints I've seen in the thread are perfectly explained and presented with sound arguments. There's no grasping at straws.
Saying the movie is not art and then name drop a critically acclaimed movie to justify or make excuses for the flaws in TFA is a weak argument. This thread is about discussing the movie and that's exactly what everyone is doing, regardless of its merits as an art piece or whatnot.
lol! using this line seems to have become so common in hack film criticism over the last few years, I don't get the trend. Faulkner's grave is probably full of postmortem vomit at this point
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Yeah, like I said before, the beginning of the film sets up the contrast to this scene as well, with the old man, who clearly knows Ben before he became Kylo.
Kylo killing the old man (who was clearly a friend of the family) getting the "Darkside boost" to stop the blast from Poe in mid air.
Wanting to be even more powerful and to snuff out the light, Kylo feels he has to go even more extreme by killing off his family, Han.
Doing this gives the opposite effect though. He doesn't get the feeling of euphoria from crossing even deeper into the dark side when killing his father and instead is left with what looks like emptiness(on his face or confusion) before catching Chewie's crossbow blaster in the stomach.
Yeah, y'know. Having a series carry over a consistent theme is just being a direct clone. Redemption arcs? Fuck that! Literary and age-old themes be damned.
I feel like a lot of people forget that basically all of the philosophical and even technical sci-fi "depth" came from fans freaking out. Lucas literally is on record saying, "I dunno, this looks cool!!!!"
Plus the movie is still a movie. It's not a television series or book or game where you have a ton of time for depth. If it had been a 3-4 hour long affair that went super indepth with every bit of anime-esque exposition that people want, they'd be complaining that the movie is too long. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Some people are really obsessed that this film is "bad" in their "opinion"...
At this point im just ignoring this trolls.
You can nitpick all you want, but this Movie brought back Star Wars. In a big way IMO.
That you hate them is fine. I don't particularly care for them either. It is not due to our superior level of maturity.
Just saw it a second time. I liked it a lot more this time around though my main problems with the film still stand, but I won't bother getting into that.
What I will talk about is John Boyega and Daisy Ridley, because god damn they're amazing. First time I watched it I thought John was clearly the best part of the film, but now I actually think Daisy stole show, which is super impressive given that it's her 1st film (I think).
One thing though, I was fine with John putting on an American accent the first time since I had never watched any interviews with him so I had no I idea it wasn't his real accent, but since then I've seen a bunch of them and I just watched Attack the Block last night (It was pretty good). He still did a great job. but it was kinda distracting. I hope there's some behind the scenes footage on the dvd of him trying out his real accent, kinda curious to see if I'd like it more.
What I will talk about is John Boyega and Daisy Ridley, because god damn they're amazing. First time I watched it I thought John was clearly the best part of the film, but now I actually think Daisy stole show, which is super impressive given that it's her 1st film (I think).
One thing though, I was fine with John putting on an American accent the first time since I had never watched any interviews with him so I had no I idea it wasn't his real accent, but since then I've seen a bunch of them and I just watched Attack the Block last night (It was pretty good). He still did a great job. but it was kinda distracting. I hope there's some behind the scenes footage on the dvd of him trying out his real accent, kinda curious to see if I'd like it more.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Heh A younger Norton would have been dope as hell.
Why is the Traitor Stick, better known as the Z6 Riot Baton, not a toy that people can buy yet?
I really don't understand why this role wasn't taken up by Captain Phasma...
FlashbladeGAF
Member
He makes a joke about it in some interview. They tried it with his regular accent, but it didn't work for the high energy Finn.
So that means it should be completely immune from criticism?
The_Darkest_Red
Member
It appears a /s was more necessary than I expected.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
In week 2 we see the part of the media cycle where the hot takes begin to grab the wheel, and writers (some of whom want this heat, some of whom had it assigned and are just doing the best with what they can) are knowing that the words "Star Wars" in a headline will garner a set number of clicks by itself, and are looking to get those shares/tweets/fb mentions up.
Which is why you end up with a financial writer with little knowledge of the film industry writing super-contradictory articles like "Star Wars Stinks, Admit It" or whatever, among other saucily headlined posts that feature much less controversial opinions, written semi-decently to shittily past the click.
Birth Movies Death currently features a decently written article about the editing, which is interesting to me, as that's one of my bigger problems with the movie. And then halfway through it becomes apparent the article isn't so much about the editing of The Force Awakens, but the editing of GHOST SHARK 2, the one film the writer actually made. Which isn't as interesting.
Which is why you end up with a financial writer with little knowledge of the film industry writing super-contradictory articles like "Star Wars Stinks, Admit It" or whatever, among other saucily headlined posts that feature much less controversial opinions, written semi-decently to shittily past the click.
Birth Movies Death currently features a decently written article about the editing, which is interesting to me, as that's one of my bigger problems with the movie. And then halfway through it becomes apparent the article isn't so much about the editing of The Force Awakens, but the editing of GHOST SHARK 2, the one film the writer actually made. Which isn't as interesting.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
I considered it a planet-sized light saber, personally. Dark Side feeding on the light. Awakens at sunset.
Yes, the Republic was around for one thousand years before the Galactic Empire, but remember, there was peace and justice (relatively speaking) during those one thousand years. There was no incentive to create a device that can destroy an entire planet. That's my whole point. War creates the incentive to mobilize technology and innovation to defeat your enemy. The Galactic War created that incentive. There was no Death Star before the Empire. There were no clone troopers before the Clone Wars. There were no X-Wings before the the Galactic War. Even AT-AT and Star Destroyers were new and upgraded throughout the Rebellion. If anything, Episodes I though VII have shown that technology does progress during wartime in the galaxy.
As for the technological feasibility of Starkiller Base. I don't care. Technology and physics do not make sense in the Star War universe. It never has. So this is not really an argument that can be made.
As for why they went unnoticed for 30 years (I assume it took thirty years to build this), the Star Wars Database is clear, the First Order was in uncharted/unexplored galactic territory. A galaxy is huge. 100 billion+ stars in our own. You can't track or find everything.
Now, I will agree that Starkiller Base lacked a certain umph for me. It was not very intimidating and there were two major transgressions that almost ruined the whole scene for me. 1) As you said, the Resistance figured out how to destroy the thing in 2 minutes and 2) Phasma single handily took down the shields to the planet. WTH?
The LA Times article was well written and argued though.
Interfectum
Member
I'm eagerly awaiting the GAF thread "TFA backlash begins?" listing the articles and metacritic user score as evidence.
It's Macbeth. The Sound and the Fury (Faulkner novel) took it's title from the monologue as well as the concept of a tale told by an idiot.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Incredible article.
Futurevoid
Member
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