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[The Librarian]

No one is tossing that aside. That's a great thing. Although I would have liked a better character than Rey. Like others have said, her arc is flat and rushed.

Now, ANH treated Leia great, I feel. Yeah, she's a damsel in distress, but it came as an afterthought and while they were already on the Death Star. Even then, she saves them. I like Leia.

Don't understand how Rey's arc is flat or rushed.

As for Leia in ANH, she's the only girl in every scene she's in. Is that good enough?

 

[Dispatch]

I don't think that they can. Uniform code applies to everyone.

I guess it only applies to five-star generals, at least according to Outside the Beltway.

I also appreciated that you made it clear you enjoyed the movie despite it's problems. Really, I only have two issues, and they are very, very minor.

1. The targeting drone and Dejarik game that Finn interacted with were ONLY there for fan service. They did not advance the plot in any way. On my second viewing, this annoyed me a little.
2. I really think that Kylo's first unmasking would have been more effective if it had happened in front of Han Solo. In fact, Rey's line about him being a monster in a mask would have planted the seed that he was disfigured even more effectively.

Again, I loved this movie and it's brought me back into the fold as a major Star Wars fanboy.

There has been an awakening, indeed.

 

[El Topo]

Now, ANH treated Leia great, I feel. Yeah, she's a damsel in distress, but it came as an afterthought and while they were already on the Death Star. Even then, she saves them. I like Leia.

She gets caught by the Empire and only through a sheer miracle her droids find their way to Obi-Wan. She is ultimately rescued by our heroes, at the cost of Obi-Wan's life, and leads the Empire straight to the Rebel base. She doesn't take part in the vital assault on the Death Star and watches as the Death Star is destroyed through a stroke of luck. Subsequently she awards Luke and Han medals.

Other accomplishments of hers from the movies include evacuating a Rebel base, finding Luke on Bespin, choking Jabba the Hutt while wearing a metal bikini, as well as falling off the speeder bike, which causes the trooper on the other speeder bike to lose focus and drive into a tree.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Technically, yes... If the "Darth Vader: A 3-D Reconstruction Log" is still canon. (Came out in 2011)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader's_armor#cite_note-DV:a3DRL-9







Another topic:

Somehow Kylo learned to forcefully extract information from people's minds, that leads me to believe that whovever taught him has a much better control of mind manipulation... To the point that they could possibly erase people's memories.

In the Flashback, it looked like a Stormtrooper dropship leaving Rey on Jakku.

Is it possible that we are seeing a Revan-like story taking place? Where Rey's memories of learning to be a force-user were stripped away and Anakin, Obi-wan, and Yoda's ghosts used the lightsaber as an anchor to reignite some of those lost memories?

I like this theory a lot more than the "Anakin Reincarnated" version.

The Anakin reincarnation makes 0 sense. Anakin brought balance to the force by slaughtering the Jedi and equalizing the sides. Like an evil Jesus, lol.

There is no reason at all for him to be "reincarnated" literally one generation later.


I COULD however see Rey being like a force experiment, or a clone or something, that was dropped off on Jakku to hide her away.




Really I think she is Luke's daughter. It just makes more sense. I could see it making "too much" sense though, and being a classic JJ red herring (I hope not though, I want Luke's daughter vs. Leia's son)

 

[munchie64]

EDIT and whoever did the music for this film should never work in film again.

It was only a matter of time.

 

[Theodoricos]

She gets caught by the Empire and only through a sheer miracle her droids find their way to Obi-Wan. She is ultimately rescued by our heroes, at the cost of Obi-Wan's life, and leads the Empire straight to the Rebel base. She doesn't take part in the vital assault on the Death Star and watches as the Death Star is destroyed through a stroke of luck. Subsequently she awards Luke and Han medals.

• Her message is the only reason why Obi-Wan and Luke ever leave Tatooine.
• She doesn't give up the location of the Rebel base even when her home planet is about to be destroyed.
• The interrogation by the mind probe fails on her.
• She saves Luke, Han and Chewie from the prison block.

These are things that Leia does exclusively in ANH. She is an awesome character.

Now, Padme in the prequels, on the other hand...

 

[QuantumZebra]

"Near master Jedi" good grief..

Yea this stuff is boggling my mind.

She did a Jedi Mind Trick, and at the end she used battle meditation to overwhelm Kylo.

That's it.

She fought well because she has lived on a fucking junk planet her whole life and has probably been fighting for most of it. Her fighting style resembled staff fighting w/ the lightsaber. Not to mention Kylo was bleeding out from a serious shot to the fucking kidney by a BOWCASTER (does anyone remember them pointing out how badass that gun is for like half the film)?

I just don't get it. Rey is powerful, moreso than Kylo, but she didn't just go full fucking Yoda at the end.

 

[Aureon]

EDIT and whoever did the music for this film should never work in film again.

This is the first time i've seen somebody diss John Williams.
Poor guy has just 5 oscars, career's gonna be hard now.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Don't understand how Rey's arc is flat or rushed.

As for Leia in ANH, she's the only girl in every scene she's in. Is that good enough?

Leia feels more like a person to me. It sucked that she was the only female, but they treated her right. Brought her home on time. Didn't get all fancy on her.

BB comes into Rey's life, but Rey doesn't want anything to do with it at first. BB insists on staying with her, so Rey follows along. Her stated goal is to get BB back to Le Resistance, but what's her inner goal? To learn the ways of the Force like Luke? No. To fly a piece of garbage like the Falcon? No. It's to eventually deliver BB and go back to Jakku. In Maz's cantina-castle, she finds the child-killing lightsaber and runs away from it, probably because she feels the terror and hatred of the children that was killed by it like an echo of bloodrage seething through the Force that can only be sated by more and more blood, an everlasting and unquenchable thirst...

Then she gets caught by Kylo Ren and Stimpy and learns the mysteries of the Force by force. Then after Ford Solo's death, she accepts her destiny.

It's flat. She goes from "I want to go back to Jakku" to "I really want to go back to Jakku" to "Lol I can Force now."

She gets caught by the Empire and only through a sheer miracle her droids find their way to Obi-Wan. She is ultimately rescued by our heroes, at the cost of Obi-Wan's life, and leads the Empire straight to the Rebel base. She doesn't take part in the vital assault on the Death Star and watches as the Death Star is destroyed through a stroke of luck. Subsequently she awards Luke and Han medals.

She was vital to the entire plan. She throws the entire plot into motion. And when our plucky heroes come to save her, she ends up out-heroing them by throwing them away like the garbage they are.

 

[Interfectum]

Completely agree.

My Star Wars list:

1) The original trilogy
2) Various animated series
3) The Prequels
4) TFA

This film felt closer to Spaceballs/Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy in tone than any of the other films and that complete kicked me out of the film.

It I wanted to watch a Star Wars film I doubt I'll be putting on TFA. If I wanted a generic YA action film I might, but ANH has the same plot and is superior so I don't think I'd bother.

EDIT and whoever did the music for this film should never work in film again.

This has to be a joke post. If not... lol

 

[Nev]

EDIT and whoever did the music for this film should never work in film again.

Lol. I think the job he did with the prequels was MUCH better though. New themes in this one were mostly forgettable, whereas the new tracks in the prequels were absolutely fantastic. Duel of the Fates is definitely one of the top tracks in the whole franchise if not the best.

 

[Halcyon]

Yea this stuff is boggling my mind.

She did a Jedi Mind Trick, and at the end she used battle meditation to overwhelm Kylo.

That's it.

She fought well because she has lived on a fucking junk planet her whole life and has probably been fighting for most of it. Her fighting style resembled staff fighting w/ the lightsaber. Not to mention Kylo was bleeding out from a serious shot to the fucking kidney by a BOWCASTER (does anyone remember them pointing out how badass that gun is for like half the film)?

I just don't get it. Rey is powerful, moreso than Kylo, but she didn't just go full fucking Yoda at the end.

Yea I was perfectly fine with her overwhelming Kylo at the end. I feel like he hasn't had the opportunity to really fight against any force users so along with being injured he wasn't ready for that. He's been playing on easy mode mashing buttons and now has to actually learn the controls.

 

[heliosRAzi]

John Williams was slacking this go around.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Hm, was she gifting it to him or was she using it more as a symbol? I thought it was the latter. Like "hey see, I'm a Jedi, here's your lightsaber, take me seriously"

Huh?? She was returning it to him. That's literally it. The look on her face was "Well, here's your lightsaber... I have no clue what the fuck im doing anymore or whats going on... this is nuts... please help" followed by a resolve that kind of said "I'm ready to be trained"

 

[The Librarian]

Leia feels more like a person to me. It sucked that she was the only female, but they treated her right. Brought her home on time. Didn't get all fancy on her.

Besides, you know, being captured and having to be rescued, never interacting with another girl, and being harassed by Han Solo. You're essentially arguing that Leia was "good enough," when she wasn't.

Her stated goal is to get BB back to Le Resistance, but what's her inner goal? To learn the ways of the Force like Luke? No. To fly a piece of garbage like the Falcon? No. It's to eventually deliver BB and go back to Jakku. In Maz's cantina-castle, she finds the child-killing lightsaber and runs away from it, probably because she feels the terror and hatred of the children that was killed by it like an echo of bloodrage seething through the Force that can only be sated by more and more blood, an everlasting and unquenchable thirst...

Then she gets caught by Kylo Ren and Stimpy and learns the mysteries of the Force by force. Then after Ford Solo's death, she accepts her destiny.

It's flat. She goes from "I want to go back to Jakku" to "I really want to go back to Jakku" to "Lol I can Force now."

This is extremely poor criticism. It's essentially ad reductum...because why?

Rey's arc isn't the most original, but it's there. From almost the moment we meet her we see that she has a future beyond Jakku but she doesn't want to accept it. Through the course of the film we learn what the future is, a destiny, more like, and by the end she comes to accept that path.

This isn't hard.

 

[Interfectum]

Lol. I think the job he did with the prequels was MUCH better though. New themes in this one were mostly forgettable, whereas the music additions in the prequels were absolutely fantastic. Duel of the Fates is definitely one of the top tracks in the whole franchise if not the best.

Here's the problem with internet hyperbole. TFA had good music but some would argue forgettable. It wasn't "bad." It was just there. That's a fine opinion. Not every movie has to produce tons of tunes that you sing for the rest of your life. That's pretty rare.

To say that the music was so bad that the person should never work in Hollywood again is idiocy and trolling.

 

[QuantumZebra]

But it feels like people that didn't like it are much more vocal than those who did and are trying to bring them down.

Pal, its Star Wars.

The OT kicked off almost 40 years ago, and people still argue over it.

I absolutely loved VII (its 2nd to V for me) but there are always gonna be edgelords who want to shit on a popular film so they can be part of the counter culture group. ESPECIALLY with an IP like Star Wars. It sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Yea I was perfectly fine with her overwhelming Kylo at the end. I feel like he hasn't had the opportunity to really fight against any force users so along with being injured he wasn't ready for that. He's been playing on easy mode mashing buttons and now has to actually learn the controls.

Exactly.

Just like you said - dude has been playing Call of Duty on single player on Easy, and when he finally ends up fighting real competition he got popped. He will come back with a vengeance, that's for damn sure.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Yea I was perfectly fine with her overwhelming Kylo at the end. I feel like he hasn't had the opportunity to really fight against any force users so along with being injured he wasn't ready for that. He's been playing on easy mode mashing buttons and now has to actually learn the controls.

He's been playing Skyrim all his life and suddenly tries Dark Souls.

 

[Alx]

Yea I was perfectly fine with her overwhelming Kylo at the end. I feel like he hasn't had the opportunity to really fight against any force users so along with being injured he wasn't ready for that. He's been playing on easy mode mashing buttons and now has to actually learn the controls.

I'm fine with the fight too. Less so with the mind trick, because it always looked like an advanced Jedi technique. I only remember old Kenobi using it on Stormtroopers in OT, and it probably appears here and there in the prequels (nothing comes to mind right now *edit oh yeah Qui Gonn tries it on the flying guy, and it didn't work), but never from a young trainee. I'm not even sure Luke could do it in the old movies.

 

[QuantumZebra]

On one hand, Skywalkers have a history of growing without family. On the other hand Luke supposed to be the good one. But for whatever reason people seem to be ok with the idea that Luke abandons his daughter to work for food for 15 years while he runs away and hides because he's depressed.

I don't get why this is so hard for some people.


Let's go over this:

1). Kylo Ren was seduced by Snoke, and betrayed Luke and the trainees, and slaughtered them.

2). Luke could not find it in his heart to kill his nephew at the time (or he was overwhelmed by Kylo with assistance from Knights of Ren or Snoke), and he KNEW he would be hunted down.

Which leads to 3). Luke hid his daughter away on Jakku so that when/if the First Order found him, his daughter wouldn't be killed with him.

 

[Jarmel]

John Williams was slacking this go around.

Yea he was. Probably the worst Star Wars OST but I would have to relisten to them all to say that conclusively.

 

[Messypandas]

John Williams is like pizza, even whens hes bad hes still preeeety good.

 

[Halcyon]

I'm fine with the fight too. Less so with the mind trick, because it always looked like an advanced Jedi technique. I only remember old Kenobi using it on Stormtroopers in OT, and it probably appears here and there in the prequels (nothing comes to mind right now *edit oh yeah Qui Gonn tries it on the flying guy, and it didn't work), but never from a young trainee. I'm not even sure Luke could do it in the old movies.

If you only knew the power of the Dark Side.

Nevermind, I think you were talking about Rey's use of it. In that case, I sort of agree.

 

[zsynqx]

I'll post this again but I love Rey's theme. John Williams is still great for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVw_oV-jLXw

The one for Kylo Ren is pretty great as well.

 

[Metalmarc]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet but it may have, does anyone think Kylo will get a new mask?

Or even stay without the mask in 8 or will it stay the same due to it's recognisable use on all of the merchandise?

 

[Freewheelin']

Probably is the least good SW OST (not using the word worst), but March of the Resistance, Rey's Theme and The Jedi Steps are all gr8

 

[The Chef]

How freakin random was it that this cat was an X-Wing pilot?

 

[A Serious Man]

How freakin random was it that this cat was an X-Wing pilot?

He's good friends with JJ, he has cameos in everything Abrams makes.

 

[btrboyev]

Probably is the least good SW OST (not using the word worst), but March of the Resistance, Rey's Theme and The Jedi Steps are all gr8

I think this is the first OST for Star Wars that was also conducted by more than just John Williams, even though he composed it. It also wasn't done by the London symphony this time either.

 

[The Chef]

He's good friends with JJ, he has cameos in everything Abrams makes.

His squishy bearded cheeks were bursting out of his costume. It looked like someone baking bread in a helmet.

 

[Sectorseven]

Supposedly, Rey's force vision originally included a shot of Vader cutting Luke's hand off from a different camera angle. Was this original ESB material from the cutting room floor, or were they attempting some sort of recreation?

 

[heliosRAzi]

Besides, you know, being captured and having to be rescued, never interacting with another girl, and being harassed by Han Solo. You're essentially arguing that Leia was "good enough," when she wasn't.

I'm arguing that I like her more than Rey.

This is extremely poor criticism. It's essentially ad reductum...because why?

Rey's arc isn't the most original, but it's there. From almost the moment we meet her we see that she has a future beyond Jakku but she doesn't want to accept it. Through the course of the film we learn what the future is, a destiny, more like, and by the end she comes to accept that path.

This isn't hard.

Fine. "I want to stay on Jakku" to "I don't want this destiny, I want to go back to Jakku" to "Lol I can Force now." Makes no difference to me. It's flat. Binary. We see her struggle and accept her destiny in the latter half of the movie.

 

[NimbusD]

Vader isn't a person?

I agree you can't take stuff too seriously though.

I meant suspend a blast in mid air. More suspicious when it continues in the same direction and velocity when you're done with it. I mean I can get over it, it's so minor, but it was just part of a larger point.

 

[Mikef2000]

Edit: wrong thread.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Supposedly, Rey's force vision originally included a shot of Vader cutting Luke's hand off from a different camera angle. Was this original ESB material from the cutting room floor, or were they attempting some sort of recreation?

Source?

 

[anaron]

Probably is the least good SW OST (not using the word worst), but March of the Resistance, Rey's Theme and The Jedi Steps are all gr8

Yup.

 

[crazy monkey]

I got laughed at when i asked about the mask previously.

This is my summary. I have watched all movies as well..

I do not know what is it with star wars and whiny characters. They turned darth vader in to whiny teenager in new triology. Luke was whiny as well but tolerable. New villan is mega whiny and has no dark presence at all. people laughed when he removed mask or when ever he was without mask.

why could not they just make villain a villain a bad ass one. No need to see how he looks or his motivation. Just a psycho.

Also movie was very much copy of the first one.

They have not learned how to fight or prepare the base in all that time. They do not look very organized organization at all.

 

[Newline]

No one is tossing that aside. That's a great thing. Although I would have liked a better character than Rey. Like others have said, her arc is flat and rushed.

I don't think shes rushed at all, I think people only ever think that when comparing her to characters like Luke. I don't see Luke's character development as the gold standard in storytelling. I'd agree that her arc is flatter though, I just don't see it as a bad thing. In my opinion it's refreshing having a character develop in the way that Rey did, right from the get go you see that she's a tough cookie (kicking ass on Jakku) and considers making tough decisions to survive (might trade in BB-8). It's fine having a female character that is strong from the get go, infact i'd say it's awesome. It also alludes to there being way more to Rey than we even know and may be revealed in the following films, exciting stuff for me.

I do not know what is it with star wars and whiny characters. They turned darth vader in to whiny teenager in new triology. Luke was whiny as well but tolerable. New villan is mega whiny and has no dark presence at all. people laughed when he removed mask or when ever he was without mask.

why could not they just make villain a villain a bad ass one. No need to see how he looks or his motivation. Just a psycho.

Worst idea i've read in this thread so far.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I only remember old Kenobi using it on Stormtroopers in OT, and it probably appears here and there in the prequels (nothing comes to mind right now *edit oh yeah Qui Gonn tries it on the flying guy, and it didn't work), but never from a young trainee.

I'm not even sure Luke could do it in the old movies.

"You will Take me to Jabba now"
"I will take you to Jabba now"

 

[WadiumArcadium]

why could not they just make villain a villain a bad ass one. No need to see how he looks or his motivation. Just a psycho.

Because it's boring. Give me Kylo over a 'badass' villain with no character.

 

[Johndoey]

For what it's worth if Ren hadn't been fucking around and had tried to kill or disable Rey from the get go he would won handily. This is Frieza letting Goku power up because of arrogance. Or insert hundreds of other instances of this exact thing from other movies.

Hell the Shogun of Harlem fight actually did this but way better.

Edit: The Last Dragon is fantastic

 

[Sectorseven]

Source?

Rey’s original Force vision used to feature a shot where she sees Vader cutting off Luke’s hand on Bespin from a different angle than we’ve seen in The Empire Strikes Back.

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awkens-deleted-scenes/3/

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

why could not they just make villain a villain a bad ass one. No need to see how he looks or his motivation. Just a psycho.

Also movie was very much copy of the first one.

Wouldn't making him bad be even more like the first one?

Aren't we tired of all the psycho, bad for bad sake, villains in all of the Super hero movies that we've gotten?

He's Han Solo's son. It already makes it that more interesting than random evil villain 1,430,439,943.

 

[Alx]

"You will Take me to Jabba now"
"I will take you to Jabba now"

Thanks. I still don't remember that part to be honest (just that he put some guard to sleep with a single gesture), but I'll take your word for it. Anyway it was still the first appearance of Luke as a fully trained Jedi, so it still shows the mind trick as a high level skill.

 

[Future PhaZe]

More Plageuis evidence? Decided to check out the audiobook to learn more about him--its quite good.

Here's an early quote from the first chapter:

Plageuis pried the BIth's thin hand from the fabric and grinned faintly. "Yes, Master, your death comes at my bidding. You said yourself that perpetuation with purpose is the way to victory, and so it is. Go to your grave knowing that you are the last of the old order, the vaunted Rule of Two, and that the new order begins now and will for a thousand years remain in my control."

End of the last order.

Beginning of the...first order?

/

 

[A Serious Man]

why could not they just make villain a villain a bad ass one. No need to see how he looks or his motivation. Just a psycho.

Because that's boring as fuck.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

More Plageuis evidence? Decided to check out the audiobook to learn more about him--its quite good.

Here's an early quote from the first chapter:



End of the last order.

Beginning of the...first order?

/

Snoke and Plagueis both have an 'e' in them. Snoke = Plagueis.

Spoiler

 

[ScaIeboundGOTY]

How freakin random was it that this cat was an X-Wing pilot?

He looked like Al Borland from Home Improvement tryin to fly an X-Wing...when they were discussing strategy at the resistance base I was waiting for him to say .."I don't think so Han"

 

[JimmyRustler]

Worst idea i've read in this thread so far.

Worked great for Vader in ANH though. Made him an iconic character too.

I'm not saying that it's good to make a bland character but Kylo was a pretty bad villain.