Also, the movie Universe features freaking prophecies and a magical power that influences the universe. Coincidences are a feature, not a bug...
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Also, the movie Universe features freaking prophecies and a magical power that influences the universe. Coincidences are a feature, not a bug...
excelsiorlef
Member
The mask is just token, my problem is that he goes from unquestionable villain that can freeze and knock people unconscious with a finger snap and is feared even by the empire villains to someone who can't beat a stormtrooper in a lightsaber battle and that for some reason doesn't use his godlike powers despite using them previously on Rey, which is a force user at that.
I don't think the US as a political entity would dissapear completely if these places were blown up. And again, the US has means to prevent that from happening or at least know beforehand it's happening, while the republic in this movie, having very advanced technology, is somewhat oblivious to the fact that a whole planet has been made into a giant weapon by the first order, an evil organization with a fleet of huge ships. I don't think you can turn a planet into a gigantic weapon that uses the power of a star in less than a few years or a few decades even nor that it would pass unnoticed.
I don't understand why you act so angry though, some of you look like you can't accept any criticism at all or for some reason assume that criticizing the movie in some way means I (or some other person that makes a criticism) think it's garbage, despite saying that I liked the movie and think it's good. Whatever.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Mostly about the story being rushed and it being too much like ANH. I'd rather it do its own thing instead of retreading the old trilogy. That makes the movie feel smaller. There's also the bit on Finn and Rey that I liked. There was also the bit about Chewbacca just walking past Leia while she got her hug on with Rey after Ford Solo died. Also that the story is rushed. The pacing was too fast for me.
I don't have a problem with coincidences, but sometimes it gets too far into the divine where if there is a inconsistency or mistake or contrivance, you could wave it off as God did it or a Wizard did it or the Force did it. That robs the characters of their agency for me.
excelsiorlef
Member
The Republic Senate got wiped out aka the ruling government aka the equivalent to what I said. No where in the movie was it said the entire Republic was wiped out.
Think of the attack as an equivalent of Nuclear Pearl Harbour.
The galaxy is a big place, they only were monitored by Leia's group, they built it in a deep part of space. They had 30 years to build it btw.
Criticism is fine but criticism that comes off more as more like someone not paying attention ought to be rebutted.
heliosRAzi
Banned
excelsiorlef
Member
GOP dream cause Abortions would be banned. God that was a stupid storyline.
Why does everyone assume Luke disappeared just to hide anyway?
If the betrayal only happened 6 years ago and he spent that time searching for the first Jedi temple, maybe he was just looking to find some sort of guidance on where he went wrong or something like that?
That's what I assume is going to happen rather than he just hid away and did nothing.
If the betrayal only happened 6 years ago and he spent that time searching for the first Jedi temple, maybe he was just looking to find some sort of guidance on where he went wrong or something like that?
That's what I assume is going to happen rather than he just hid away and did nothing.
Imperfected
Member
I mean, you realize that's the whole point of wearing a mask with 100% occlusion, right? That way people can't see the constipation face you're making when you're standing there concentrating way too much on holding a single blaster shot in the air to look like a badass, when you could have just slowed it down a little bit and stepped out of the way.
As a member of the audience, you're supposed to basically realize from the temper tantrums, push-back trying to read Rey's mind, and the moment Kylo takes off his helmet that he's faking the funk. He's trying way too hard to live up to the legend of Vader, using Batman Begins style theatrics to convince people he's a bigger, badder villain than he actually is.
That's why he's so desperate to dive deeper into the Dark Side. That's why he feels the need to "play with his food" when he should have just Force pushed Finn and Rey off a cliff or showed up with an entire platoon of Stormtroopers in tow to capture them. He's acutely aware that he isn't as powerful as he's pretending to be (and he's pretending to be as powerful as this idealized vision of Vader that probably only exists in his fantasies), and he's trying to compensate all over the place while he scrambles to make it a reality.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
heliosRAzi
Banned
And then a lot of contrivances would happen because God wants to see dancing droids. BBs and R2s living together. Mass hysteria!
He SEEMS to be an unquestionable villain at the beginning of the movie. But as the movie progresses he is discovered not to actually be one. He is not feared by the empire villains, far from it. Almost nobody respects him there, Hux tries to steal all the glory, the stormtroopers don't respect him (the whole scene with the two stormtroopers who go "Nope!" and turn around when he throws a tantrum practically shows that he was famous for those there). His whole struggle is to be feared and respected and he doesn't really manages to do that. Yes, he's very good with mind tricks when using the Force, but he's also unstable, angry, unfocused. The movie is also his journey and it will be even more in the episodes to come.
I'm not angry, I'm actually already numb to the picky commentaries that shows the commentator didn't really pay attention to the movie. It's like a rule, the more detailed the complains are the more are actually clearly explained/showed in the movie. Yeah, a visual cue is also an explanation.
Like the fact that Kylo can't beat a stormtrooper. Ignoring the fact that he's heavily wounded and psychologically messed up after killing his father and that not resulting in what he would have hoped, he toys with Finn for the whole fight, he wants to punish the traitor and the second Finn gets a lucky shot and hurts Kylo he's done in no time.
Also about Rey, between the first fight and the second fight, Rey has showed him that she's a very good match for his force powers and that she immediately learns what Kylo applies on her. That would make everybody quite reluctant in showing more tricks. Plus he was pretty sure he can defeat her without. He still use a force push on her before the fight with Finn and overpowers her for most of the fight until she is pushed practically on the edge. Even then, It's again Kylo who gives her the way out, when he propose to train her in the ways of the force, reminding her practically that she can use that.
The same reason traitor trooper didn't just shoot Finn whilst his back was turned and instead chose to throw away his blaster to engage him with a melee weapon, because to both the trooper and Kylo, this person had slighted them and they wanted the fight to be more personal.
It's not that he couldn't beat Finn in a battle, it's that he wanted to draw it out, he constantly knocks Finn to the ground and then lets him get back up rather than just kill him because he doesn't want it to be over quickly.
When Finn actually manages to get a hit on Kylo, he gets disarmed and cut up in less than 5 seconds.
excelsiorlef
Member
All right, all right! I get the point! XD
But yeah people need to pay attention more methinks
A Serious Man
Member
I think Kylo's mask served two purposes. It was his attempt to mimic Vader and convince himself and others that he was truly dark but it also hid his moments of doubt and empathy from those around him. He takes it off and leaves it on the bridge where he kills his father because he feels he doesn't need it anymore. Whether he's actually purged all traces of light from himself or not remains to be seen but I wouldn't be surprised if we never see that mask again.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The Knights of Ren concept art
Was one of them scrapped? In the film I'm pretty sure there were only 6 Knights of Ren aside from Kylo.
Also is it confirmed that Kylo is the leader? It's funny how they all look more badass than him.
Yesterday saw it for third time, this time with my daughter. She's 14 and saw entire series this december for the first time, and TFA is her favorite SW movie, I supose because Rey.
For me, this third time I understood a lot better all the new republic destruction, the capital planet on hosnian system and, it seems, all the new republic fleet was also destroyed at the same time (I saw several republic starships burning while prbiting the planet when it elwas destroyed). I think this sets an interesting begining for ep VIII, with the new republic erased and the first order without his starkiller weapon.
Every time I see the movie I love it more!
For me, this third time I understood a lot better all the new republic destruction, the capital planet on hosnian system and, it seems, all the new republic fleet was also destroyed at the same time (I saw several republic starships burning while prbiting the planet when it elwas destroyed). I think this sets an interesting begining for ep VIII, with the new republic erased and the first order without his starkiller weapon.
Every time I see the movie I love it more!
excelsiorlef
Member
It's the first time we'll see a power vacuum. It's exciting.
And same each time I find something new to love.
better if viewed as a self contained piece of movie making. yes, I agree. Acting is better, art direction is better, characters are more compelling, dialogue is better.
In the context of star wars as a series. I'm not sure I agree. On one hand, I don't actually like any of the prequels. But here is the thing, those movies had a vision driving them and still stand out as unique movies in the history of film making to me. Lucas tried to do new stuff, and kept his integrity in doing so. I respect him as a very brave director(the original star wars was also a very brave effort) even if it gets the best of him from time to time.
TFA on the other hand comes off as nothing more than a Star Wars-like movie to me. It's an engineered effort to emulate a new hope and it does succeed at that. I get that it appeals to the marvel movies generation of people because all they want is content, content, content. To me, content will always be second to artistic integrity, unique expression and originality. I don't mean that in a highbrow sort of way. Fury road for example is a stupid action movie that by comparison excels in those areas.
As a piece of film making or any art really, a copy or an imitation is just inherently not interesting, even when it's well done.
On a side note I think I just really don't want these star wars movies. I don't mind them existing but to me it severely hurts the legitimacy and integrity of the IP that Lucas isn't the creative force behind star wars anymore. The idea that a company buys a fictional universe with its story and characters, then tells us that from now on this and that is canon just isn't compatible with artistic integrity. I will never be able to see disneys output as anything but a star wars-like clone even if everyone but lucas is still involved. It's kinda like queen without freddie mercury. it's just queen-like even if they still are the official band.
I'd probably rate TFA at 6/10 because it is mostly a solid display of film making and I had moderately fun watching it.
Turns out they're all teens dressing in goth-equivalent garb.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Unkar Plutt seems to buy Rey in the flashback. Did people take this in consideration regarding her being a Skywalker? (Why would Luke sell her to a merchant in Jakku)?
Imperfected
Member
The mark-up is 20% higher than selling children on Tatooine.
The Librarian
Banned
There's plenty that TFA does that's different from ANH (or, should I say, there's plenty that it executes better).
One example id like to point out is better treatment of its female characters. This cannot be understated and simply tossed aside.
works of art are made by people, those "buzzwords" are all factors that drive people in creating that art. It seems logical then that one would talk about such things when discussing works of art.
On one hand, Skywalkers have a history of growing without family. On the other hand Luke supposed to be the good one. But for whatever reason people seem to be ok with the idea that Luke abandons his daughter to work for food for 15 years while he runs away and hides because he's depressed.
That's totally a Skywalker special though, its the normal they'll be safer in this backwater rationale that you always have with these stories. Also Luke is an inhuman monster.
Completely agree.
My Star Wars list:
1) The original trilogy
2) Various animated series
3) The Prequels
4) TFA
This film felt closer to Spaceballs/Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy in tone than any of the other films and that complete kicked me out of the film.
It I wanted to watch a Star Wars film I doubt I'll be putting on TFA. If I wanted a generic YA action film I might, but ANH has the same plot and is superior so I don't think I'd bother.
EDIT and whoever did the music for this film should never work in film again.
Thank you, this is huge!
If there is any point of the film where discussing bad story telling should be done it is for this very detail.
Having more troopers carry them would have made it believable that they do get melee training, but it seems like they just opted for having a "cool" moment with a random trooper pulling a riot stick out of their ass without any kind of build up and connection to anything else in the film and it gravely undermines the establishing of Finn as well.
The Librarian
Banned
Can someone explain to me the "vision" George had when making the prequels?
Density.
Theodoricos
Member
"Huge"? You've got to be kidding me. Are you seriously nit-picking over that?
Some of the complaints here just make me roll my eyes.
Selling toys to kids.
The Librarian
Banned
To explain the follies of taxation of trade routes?
enigmatic_alex44
Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
I'm boycotting these movies if they ever DARE to kill off R2-D2 or BB-8.
C-3P0 can go
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Cool costumes but we know they're all a bunch of suckers since Kylo is their leader.
Imperfected
Member
I'm kind of curious why you feel it's so important to establish that professional soldiers raised from birth get training in melee.
I thought it was basically pretty common information that all major professional armies train their soldiers in melee combat, even in our modern, gun-focused world where having people run at you with a sword is not especially common.
I suppose if people really don't know that, it could be worth establishing? Anyway, the stun baton is just there for crowd control, it wouldn't make sense for most of them to carry them during a raid You have one or two guys with cattle prods to corral any civilians you take into custody, but most of your troops need to have guns not only for the chance of resistance, but for sheer intimidation factor.
Thats the reason I dont think Luke was the one to dump her. I think its Rey's mother.
Wouldn't be surprised if Rey had her connection to the force cut not only to hide her from the Dark Side, but also from Luke after whatever happened at the academy. Of course this would mean that Rey's mother was also a Jedi.
To clutter the frame as much as possible.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I fully agree with everything. It isn't a nitpick like someone said above me.
This is great. The Force Awakens is bad because it's too much like A New Hope except it's not enough like A New Hope to be good
It's a joke post, right?
"/s" ?
Maybe you quoted a meta joke post.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
They should have given a few stun batons to the troopers standing around the villagers during the execution. "Problem" solved.
The use of the word "huge" is hyperbolic. It it was huge, I'd at least ponder if this movie was poorly plotted. I love picking apart fiction for analytical purposes, but this is too much.
I've only seen the movie twice, but I can't think of any other fight where a storm trooper was involved in melee to even a minimal degree, so they wouldn't need to use a riot stick.
Also, considering the uniform and segmented nature of the military, one can assume that if we see one soldier outfitted a particular way, then others are given similar weaponry and armor. Of course, there are exceptions for high ranking officials, like Captain Phasma. In the U.S. Army, for instance, generals can alter their appearance outside of the standard regulations. They've earned that right through advancement.
Why, exactly, is this bad storytelling?
heliosRAzi
Banned
No one is tossing that aside. That's a great thing. Although I would have liked a better character than Rey. Like others have said, her arc is flat and rushed.
Now, ANH treated Leia great, I feel. Yeah, she's a damsel in distress, but it came as an afterthought and while they were already on the Death Star. Even then, she saves them. I like Leia.
Fine, I'll say algorithms, sight, and brain matter.
He is being completely serious. That's what the /s is for; to show that his serious post is done.
There's nothing in the flashback to suggest he bought her.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I don't think it's exactly bad storytelling, but just another thing Abrams thought looked cool (and it totally was) that raises some cool ideas. "The Stormtroopers have been trained to fight against lightsabers. That's awesome!" Indeed it is, voicei n my head. But once you only see TR-8R with the device, that justification breaks down and thus the world. Find too many holes in the established world and it all comes crashing down. Not that this happened, though.
I don't think that they can. Uniform code applies to everyone.
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