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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works

Okay, well, apparently Luke doesn't have feelings. I don't know what else to say. Luke nearly died sacrificing himself to redeem his father, he succeeds only for Vader to die in his place, and you're telling me the lightsaber that was formerly his father's that he used to fight him until the end of his rope at the end of Empire seemingly to be lost forever means nothing to him?

I'm not saying it means nothing to him, but it was never a big deal. He moved on and made a new one. You're version of it seems a lot more melodramatic.

Okay maybe he wasn't shedding a tear but the movie is making a point that the lightsaber delivery was a big deal to the characters.

But I don't think it was because of the lightsaber. The lightsaber was merely a tool.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I interpreted the scene as Luke coming to terms with his responsibility. Rey has the lightsaber and found him, so now he has to confront the shame that he has been running away from. If he sent her away, that would be like sending her off to die. He has knowledge and reluctantly has to pass it on.

I don't know, I just never imagined all that emotion would be in regards to the actual object.
 
I'm not saying it means nothing to him, but it was never a big deal. He moved on and made a new one. You're version of it seems a lot more melodramatic.



But I don't think it was mainly because of the lightsaber. The lightsaber was merely a tool.

Well one, Star Wars is pretty dramatic. Two, I was overemphasizing everything because all things considered I'm just not accepting that argument that the lightsaber isn't important to Luke based on everything that happened between him and his father. Making a new one was a necessity. He could've cried over the lightsaber for weeks or not given a shit; either way, he would make a new one eventually.

About the TFA scene, look who's reading into it now :p. Rey could be a complete stranger to Luke or maybe not. We don't know. So it's entirely possible the only thing Luke understands in this encounter is the lightsaber. It's not like it's this amazing moment of reuniting but it's there and it's obviously important.
 
*insert goodfellas quote*
I could derail this thread with my funny guy mention lol but I will keep it on topic.

Did killing Han Solo piss anyone off other than me? Once that happened, I kinda said fuck this on my head seeing as this could've been the ending or climax in the 2nd movie.

They rushed too many things imo.
 
Well one, Star Wars is pretty dramatic. Two, I was overemphasizing everything because all things considered I'm just not accepting that argument that the lightsaber isn't important to Luke based on everything that happened between him and his father. Making a new one was a necessity. He could've cried over the lightsaber for weeks or not given a shit; either way, he would make a new one eventually.

About the TFA scene, look who's reading into it now :p. Rey could be a complete stranger to Luke or maybe not. We don't know. So it's entirely possible the only thing Luke understands in this encounter is the lightsaber. It's not like it's this amazing moment of reuniting but it's there and it's obviously important.

And surprinsingly, you're making it way more melodramatic.

But again, I'm not saying it's pointless, the lightsaber has it's purpose, it's a message to Luke that he has to get his shit together, but that about it for now.

The scene is not about the lightsaber.
 
And surprinsingly, you're making it way more melodramatic.

But again, I'm not saying it's pointless, the lightsaber has it's purpose, it's a message to Luke that he has to get his shit together, but that about it for now.

The scene is not about the lightsaber.

I don't really see it that way. He already has a lightsaber, or at least there's nothing to assume otherwise. I don't think Rey's like arming him with his old weapon to say get it in gear. That just doesn't really make sense IMO.
 
Did we watch a different movie?

How is it not about him getting his shit together? Dude ran away after he's nephew apprentice fucked things up (as far as we know), and has been hiding in regret.

That's the context of the situation I'm aware but I don't see any reason why the scene can't be interpreted as Rey first and foremost simply returning to him something that's his and that's meaningful because the lightsaber went through a lot of shit. If Rey went there to beg for Luke's help it would make infinitely more sense for her to say something, not hand him a lightsaber she found laying around in the basement of some alien bar.

No lines of dialogue were spoken in that scene and no lines of dialogue were spoken prior about meeting with Skywalker besides "may the force be with you." I don't think anyone can really be wrong or right here.
 

Kaze Kyou

Member
The most important thing, for me, is that it makes Star Wars the series accessible to non-fans. The missus (who couldn't sit through either trilogy) thought TFA was pretty good with the right mix of action, comedy and drama. I can even chat with my 5-year old and discuss future possibilities of where the story will be going, just like in the olden days, getting excited for everything Star Wars.

Went to see this a second time with my father - he loved it too. But seeing Han Solo die a second time was harder to swollow. I almost choked up seeing the interaction between Kylo Ren and his father.
 
That's the context of the situation I'm aware but I don't see any reason why the scene can't be interpreted as Rey returning to him something that's his and that's meaningful because the lightsaber went through a lot of shit.

No lines of dialogue were spoken in that scene and no lines of dialogue were spoken prior about meeting with Skywalker besides "may the force be with you." I don't think anyone can really be wrong or right here.

Alright, if a no one can be right approach works for you.

I can't really see it been just about the damn lightsaber.
 
The most important thing, for me, is that it makes Star Wars the series accessible to non-fans. The missus (who couldn't sit through either trilogy) thought TFA was pretty good with the right mix of action, comedy and drama. I can even chat with my 5-year old and discuss future possibilities of where the story will be going, just like in the olden days, getting excited for everything Star Wars.

Went to see this a second time with my father - he loved it too. But seeing Han Solo die a second time was harder to swollow. I almost choked up seeing the interaction between Kylo Ren and his father.

My parents who have no real attachment and gave up after EP II loved it. My mom thanked me for bugging them enough till they agreed to see it.

Best family movie time I've had with them in ages.
 
Alright, if a no one can be right approach works for you.

I can't really see it been just about the damn lightsaber.

If you think you're so right about this vague scene and want to keep talking that's great but I don't see how lightsaber delivery communicates "get your shit together" more than "this is important to you, here." Or at the very least, one is more definite than the other.
 
I could derail this thread with my funny guy mention lol but I will keep it on topic.

Did killing Han Solo piss anyone off other than me? Once that happened, I kinda said fuck this on my head seeing as this could've been the ending or climax in the 2nd movie.

They rushed too many things imo.

I feel like the content was fine for one movie, but they cut way too much exposition and story development. Side characters like Maz and Poe got cut to almost nothing. We didn't even know we were supposed to care about those planets the not-Sun Crusher exploded because it happened so quickly. Even Han's death got cut down to just him dying and the rest of the movie happens and everyone just kind of forgot he died.
 
If you think you're so right about this vague scene and want to keep talking that's great but I don't see how lightsaber delivery communicates "get your shit together" more than "this is important to you, here."

Sorry if I sound a little cranky, it's late.

It's a symbol!

Edit: and having Luke getting his shit together is kinda the whole point of the film. It even says so in the crawl
 
I feel like the content was fine for one movie, but they cut way too much exposition and story development. Side characters like Maz and Poe got cut to almost nothing. We didn't even know we were supposed to care about those planets the not-Sun Crusher exploded because it happened so quickly. Even Han's death got cut down to just him dying and the rest of the movie happens and everyone just kind of forgot he died.

Poe didn't get cut. He got saved. Dude was supposed to die. They added Poe scenes.
 
Poe didn't get cut. He got saved. Dude was supposed to die. They added Poe scenes.

They were supposed to show him dying, which would have been fine with me. Instead he vanishes without a trace and suddenly appears half the movie later like "Hi guys!" and everyone's like "Whoa" (use Keanu Reeves voice here).
 

FeD.nL

Member
The one thing I want from 8 or 9 is a proper dogfight sequence in space (and no cuts to action elsewhere) with Luke Skywalker and R2 in an X-wing. Like the opening of RotS but with Luke and Rey and no fucking buzzdroids. I just hope they don't make Luke solely a Jedi Master, he should really be flying an X-wing somewhere in this trilogy.
 

FeD.nL

Member
It kinda felt odd to have only X-Wings and Tie Fighters during the dogfighting scenes.

Yeah was kinda disappointed in that.

Overall the whole assault on Starkiller base was a letdown though (the air part). It really felt shoehorned in, like the climax of RotJ basically has the same pieces (ground, air and lightsaber) but is much more engaging on all fronts.Here as a viewer I felt really disconnected from the pilots in the air. I would rather have had them start the assault on the base after Ben killed Han.
 

Iceternal

Member
FOR FUCKS SAKE !

So hating Star Wars has become the new cool thing right ?

I can't read a single thread on Star Wars without it turning into a hate-fest...

Some people have genuine critiques like the fact that the Starkiller base wasn't necessary but some people are throwing insane hyperboles, like it's the worst in the franchise, that the CGI for Jar Jar looked better than the one for Maz etc ....

I almost feel like I'm in the minority now loving this movie and that I shouldn't, that I got bad taste etc...

Can't we have a review thread on the movie here so that we can keep the negativity there and we can speculate and be excited for things to come without killing the excitement of those who liked it ?
 
I could derail this thread with my funny guy mention lol but I will keep it on topic.

Did killing Han Solo piss anyone off other than me? Once that happened, I kinda said fuck this on my head seeing as this could've been the ending or climax in the 2nd movie.

They rushed too many things imo.

Harrison wanted Han to die in RotJ. I wouldn't be surprised if he only accepted to role so that he could get killed.

FOR FUCKS SAKE !

So hating Star Wars has become the new cool thing right ?

I can't read a single thread on Star Wars without it turning into a hate-fest...

Some people have genuine critiques like the fact that the Starkiller base wasn't necessary but some people are throwing insane hyperboles, like it's the worst in the franchise, that the CGI for Jar Jar looked better than the one for Maz etc ....

I almost feel like I'm in the minority now loving this movie and that I shouldn't, that I got bad taste etc...

Can't we have a review thread on the movie here so that we can keep the negativity there and we can speculate and be excited for things to come without killing the excitement of those who liked it ?

I enjoyed it, you aren't alone.
 
FOR FUCKS SAKE !

So hating Star Wars has become the new cool thing right ?

I can't read a single thread on Star Wars without it turning into a hate-fest...

Some people have genuine critiques like the fact that the Starkiller base wasn't necessary but some people are throwing insane hyperboles, like it's the worst in the franchise, that the CGI for Jar Jar looked better than the one for Maz etc ....

I almost feel like I'm in the minority now loving this movie and that I shouldn't, that I got bad taste etc...

Can't we have a review thread on the movie here so that we can keep the negativity there and we can speculate and be excited for things to come without killing the excitement of those who liked it ?
Whoa. Calm down.

You're going to have to learn to deal with it. People are going to have their opinions, good or bad. You can't just put them in the Star Wars ghetto because you want to feel good.
 

Iceternal

Member
Whoa. Calm down.

You're going to have to learn to deal with it. People are going to have their opinions, good or bad. You can't just put them in the Star Wars ghetto because you want to feel good.

But it feels like people that didn't like it are much more vocal than those who did and are trying to bring them down.
 
So why were they calling a random star ''Sun''?

lol, it bugged me too. I know its technically an accurate term, but come on, call it a star, its the Starkiller, not the Sunkiller. It felt odd.

I don't mind that. In a lot of science fiction, people in different solar systems call their star the sun or "our sun"

But it feels like people that didn't like it are much more vocal than those who did and are trying to bring them down.
Or they are just expressing their opinion.
 

Nev

Banned
I just watched this and I enjoyed it, I think it's a good movie but there are a few things I didn't like, like:

- Finn is not a jedi. I love that Rey is a jedi, but I couldn't help but feel dissapointed that Finn isn't. Maybe because I had already assumed he was based on pre-release media and because I liked the actor and the character.

- Kylo Ren is the worst character in the movie and it's stupidly written. Right after the movie begins we have this masked badass feared by everyone who can freeze people and even blasts, then he gets his mask off because the enemy asks for it and with it loses every single bit of menace and respect he had in the first half. I understand he's not "fully trained" but seriously, are we supposed to believe that Finn can hold up against him in a lightsaber battle? Moreso when he can FREEZE PEOPLE? Sigh, such terrible writing. Poor guy is going to be more hated than Jar Jar too after what he did.

- Where the fuck is Gwendoline Christie? Really? Three lines in the whole movie and doesn't even show her face? What a complete waste, might as well cast literally someone else.

- "The Republic" is a...planet? The government of a whole galaxy is destroyed because the planet where their headquarters are (one would assume) gets blown up? Joke. Joke too that the first order has managed to create yet again a huge army of enormous ships and a whole fucking planet-weapon. What is the role of the republic and the resistance if they can't stop them from doing this? Like, I don't like in your face exposition but this is a whole new level of "fill the plotholes by yourself".

- The giant bald CGI guy does not manage to become an enemy to look forward or to care about at all, looks and acts like a generic CGI Marvel movie enemy. Stop using full CGI for main characters please. If he's Darth Plagueis indeed then they did a mediocre job at bringing him to the big screen. Any other villain in the saga looks more distinct, interesting and/or menacing.

- Again, Han Solo and Leia's son is the worst character. What are the reasons he made the mess at Luke's Academy? Nothing is said about it and we're just left with "he just became evil". I assume they'll flesh it out in the next movies but just a little bit of exposition would've been welcomed so you know, we give a shit about him.

- I like the homage to A New Hope (because I want to think the movie being closer to a remake than a sequel is an homage and not a lazy rip-off), but the whole "talented pilot manages to sneak in and destroy the core so the enemy ship/planet is blown up" is quite worn-out by now.

All in all I liked it, but unfortunately I don't have much hope in the following two, especially the third one if it's actually being directed by the masterly director of Jurassic World. When Abrams hasn't been able to make more than what he did (which isn't bad but not exactly a masterpiece) then I foresee dissapointment and outrages. I hope I'm wrong but making Trevorow a director in this makes it very, very hard to be hopeful though. Seriously, what the fuck.
 
I just watched this and I enjoyed it, I think it's a good movie but there are a few things I didn't like, like:

- Finn is not a jedi. I love that Rey is a jedi, but I couldn't help but feel dissapointed that Finn isn't. Maybe because I had already assumed he was based on pre-release media and because I liked the actor and the character.

- Kylo Ren is the worst character in the movie and it's stupidly written. Right after the movie begins we have this masked badass feared by everyone who can freeze people and even blasts, then he gets his mask off because the enemy asks for it and with it loses every single bit of menace and respect he had in the first half. I understand he's not "fully trained" but seriously, are we supposed to believe that Finn can hold up against him in a lightsaber battle? Moreso when he can FREEZE PEOPLE? Sigh, such terrible writing. Poor guy is going to be more hated than Jar Jar too after what he did.

- Where the fuck is Gwendoline Christie? Really? Three lines in the whole movie and doesn't even show her face? What a complete waste, might as well cast literally someone else.

- "The Republic" is a...planet? The government of a whole galaxy is destroyed because the planet where their headquarters are (one would assume) gets blown up? Joke. Joke too that the first order has managed to create yet again a huge army of enormous ships and a whole fucking planet-weapon. What is the role of the republic and the resistance if they can't stop them from doing this? Like, I don't like in your face exposition but this is a whole new level of "fill the plotholes by yourself".

- The giant bald CGI guy does not manage to become an enemy to look forward or to care about at all, looks and acts like a generic CGI Marvel movie enemy. Stop using full CGI for main characters please. If he's Darth Plagueis indeed then they did a mediocre job at bringing him to the big screen. Any other villain in the saga looks more distinct, interesting and/or menacing.

- Again, Han Solo and Leia's son is the worst character. What are the reasons he made the mess at Luke's Academy? Nothing is said about it and we're just left with "he just became evil". I assume they'll flesh it out in the next movies but just a little bit of exposition would've been welcomed so you know, we give a shit about him.

- I like the homage to A New Hope (because I want to think the movie being closer to a remake than a sequel is an homage and not a lazy rip-off), but the whole "talented pilot manages to sneak in and destroy the core so the enemy ship/planet is blown up" is quite worn-out by now.

All in all I liked it, but unfortunately I don't have much hope in the following two, especially the third one if he's actually being directed by the masterly director of Jurassic World. When Abrams hasn't been able to make more than what he did (which isn't bad at all) then I foresee dissapointment and outrages. I hope I'm wrong but making Trevorow a director in this makes it very, very hard to be hopeful though. Seriously, what the fuck.

I love reviews like this. "I liked it but let me only say what I hate". "I liked it but Kylo is the worst thing in Star Wars ever" "I liked it but the series is doomed it's downhill from here"
 
Should all reviews be gushing?

No but it's just funny to not talk anything positive about something you supposedly enjoyed and then concluding this is the end for Star Wars.

Also comparing Kylo to Jar Jar hate is ridiculous and I mean factually incorrect as he's a rather popular character.
 
Wow I must have missed that. Was that mentioned in the film? I remember C3PO mentioning back up data, but I thought he was just... waiting.

The writers said it in an interview.

It was something like R2 downloaded the maps in ANH.

When BB-8 first speaks to R2, he asks for help finding the rest of the map he has.

R2 processes the request slowly in stand-by mode and then reactivates with a response the next time BB-8 is in the base.

That's what I was saying before the movie came out.

Well, Finn did have an awakening. He went from a conditioned from toddler stormtrooper to someone with a personality and conscience. It happened suddenly and completely.
 

Nev

Banned
I love reviews like this. "I liked it but let me only say what I hate". "I liked it but Kylo is the worst thing in Star Wars ever" "I liked it but the series is doomed it's downhill from here"

I don't think it's too hard to assume I liked the things I didn't list under the things I didn't like.
 
- Finn is not a jedi. I love that Rey is a jedi, but I couldn't help but feel dissapointed that Finn isn't. Maybe because I had already assumed he was based on pre-release media and because I liked the actor and the character.

There are some still holding out hope that he may be force sensitive, if that means anything to ya.

I personally don't think that's where they are going with the character, but, I *do* think that the film was purposefully being ambiguous about it.

In retrospect, that Kylo stare was an amazing moment in the movie. Even if he wasn't sensing anything, I still enjoy the confrontation. Made their LS fight mean a lot more.
 
I see positives in that little review.

Why The Force Awakes is Worse than the Prequels. I don't agree with the title, but it has some nice points in it.

Can you share those points. 20 minutes is a long time to dedicate to some guy arguing that Attack of the Clones is better than TFA. I'm curious though.


Skimmed through but frankly when you start arguing that Rey finding BB-8 is bad storytelling it's clear he's just being absurd. Yep his entire plot and coincidence section could be done to argue any movie is terrible.

One of his arguments is essentially these characters changed in the past 30 years! While simultaneously arguing the movie is too much fan service.


This movement to now claim the PT isn't that bad bring back Lucas is hilarious.
 

Iceternal

Member
I would love to see the internet's reaction if ANH was released today... it would probably be just as bad.

"nothing's explained, we never see the emperor or the senate etc"

"Vader is a lackey, how am I supposed to take him seriously after the marketing focused on him so much ? worst villain ever"

"Han arrives just in time to save Luke, such a coincidence LOL "

"it's just a rehash of old Samurai films anyway"
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I can't read a single thread on Star Wars without it turning into a hate-fest...

Don't let it get to you. It happens for a lot of things, including games. It's cool to be edgy these days. Enjoying a film is too mainstream etc. That being said, TFA threads are one of the most positive review threads on GAF.

I just watched this and I enjoyed it, I think it's a good movie but there are a few things I didn't like, like:

- Finn is not a jedi. I love that Rey is a jedi, but I couldn't help but feel dissapointed that Finn isn't. Maybe because I had already assumed he was based on pre-release media and because I liked the actor and the character.

- Kylo Ren is the worst character in the movie and it's stupidly written. Right after the movie begins we have this masked badass feared by everyone who can freeze people and even blasts, then he gets his mask off because the enemy asks for it and with it loses every single bit of menace and respect he had in the first half. I understand he's not "fully trained" but seriously, are we supposed to believe that Finn can hold up against him in a lightsaber battle? Moreso when he can FREEZE PEOPLE? Sigh, such terrible writing. Poor guy is going to be more hated than Jar Jar too after what he did.

- Where the fuck is Gwendoline Christie? Really? Three lines in the whole movie and doesn't even show her face? What a complete waste, might as well cast literally someone else.

- "The Republic" is a...planet? The government of a whole galaxy is destroyed because the planet where their headquarters are (one would assume) gets blown up? Joke. Joke too that the first order has managed to create yet again a huge army of enormous ships and a whole fucking planet-weapon. What is the role of the republic and the resistance if they can't stop them from doing this? Like, I don't like in your face exposition but this is a whole new level of "fill the plotholes by yourself".

- The giant bald CGI guy does not manage to become an enemy to look forward or to care about at all, looks and acts like a generic CGI Marvel movie enemy. Stop using full CGI for main characters please. If he's Darth Plagueis indeed then they did a mediocre job at bringing him to the big screen. Any other villain in the saga looks more distinct, interesting and/or menacing.

- Again, Han Solo and Leia's son is the worst character. What are the reasons he made the mess at Luke's Academy? Nothing is said about it and we're just left with "he just became evil". I assume they'll flesh it out in the next movies but just a little bit of exposition would've been welcomed so you know, we give a shit about him.

- I like the homage to A New Hope (because I want to think the movie being closer to a remake than a sequel is an homage and not a lazy rip-off), but the whole "talented pilot manages to sneak in and destroy the core so the enemy ship/planet is blown up" is quite worn-out by now.

All in all I liked it, but unfortunately I don't have much hope in the following two, especially the third one if it's actually being directed by the masterly director of Jurassic World. When Abrams hasn't been able to make more than what he did (which isn't bad but not exactly a masterpiece) then I foresee dissapointment and outrages. I hope I'm wrong but making Trevorow a director in this makes it very, very hard to be hopeful though. Seriously, what the fuck.

Maybe the mask is what a mask supposed to be? Hiding the real person behind it? He doesn't need a mask because he's disfigured. He needs it to hide the things within his mind though. He wants to be strong and respected and he's neither of that without his mask. With the mask he's a different persona. I think it's a great visual play, almost like in Commedia dell'arte.

Also the new Republic is not just a planet, a whole system was blown up.

Edit: once again I see this pattern, people are not paying attention to the movie, but they are very picky in their complains.
 
- "The Republic" is a...planet? The government of a whole galaxy is destroyed because the planet where their headquarters are (one would assume) gets blown up? Joke. Joke too that the first order has managed to create yet again a huge army of enormous ships and a whole fucking planet-weapon. What is the role of the republic and the resistance if they can't stop them from doing this? Like, I don't like in your face exposition but this is a whole new level of "fill the plotholes by yourself".
.


Yeah man that's stupid. I mean why is the President, The House and the Senate all in Washington DC? They should be in different places all over the US

Edit: once again I see this pattern, people are not paying attention to the movie, but they are very picky in their complains.


So much this. It's bordering on ridiculous.
 
Skimmed through but frankly when you start arguing that Rey finding BB-8 is bad storytelling it's clear he's just being absurd. Yep his entire plot and coincidence section could be done to argue any movie is terrible.
I don't really care about the coincidences. All movies have them. And it mirrors ANH.

This movement to now claim the PT isn't that bad bring back Lucas is hilarious.
Those people are crazy. TFA is a lot better than the prequels hands down.
 
I don't really care about the coincidences. All movies have them. And it mirrors ANH.


Those people are crazy. TFA is a lot better than the prequels hands down.

Yep and yep.

Still curious what you thought was compelling enough to share that video. Not attacking just want to know what you thought he had a point on. I think the guy clearly set out to hate the movie. He basically admits as much when he says it was exactly what he expected it to be and then proceeds to praise the PT which is gloriously hilarious.


I love the suggestion in the video that Luke would never run and hide. Ridiculous he learned from two Jedi masters both who ran and hid when the going go tough. He learned their ways XD
 
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