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[Ether_Snake]

And the thing is that Kylo at first uses a torture device to try to get information out of Poe before Kylo resorts to pulling the info from his mind. I like that because it keeps Vader's use of it initially in ANH consistent with him later reading Luke's mind.

Yeah except that means Vader failed to get the location of the rebel base out of Leia's mind with either torture or mind-reading and that didn't ring anything his head.

 

[eot]

It wasn't Coruscant
Kylo was beating his wound for adrenaline
We don't know who Rey's parents are
Smoke is probably not Plageuis
Phasma was thrown in the dumpster
It was Alec Guinness AND Ewan McGregor
Maz knows a guy who knows a guy who got her Luke's lightsaber
Yes it was the same lightsaber from ANH and Empire

I was away for a few days, I thought some producer or someone said she was returning in the next one?

 

[Starsailor]

The Sith don't have ranks like the Jedi did. There were ever only two of them. Vader was Sidious' apprentice, but he was still a Sith Lord.

Also, as far as we know, the Knights of Ren aren't Sith. Neither is Snoke. They're something new. Something different.

I know but in term of power it seems to me that Kylo is under Vador.
Like a Drago in HP at the second year in Hogwarts

 

[DedValve]

Darth Vader unburned and out of the suit is above dooku. Dooku was a sith lord as well who had a couple apprentices.


He couldn't even use force lightning cause of the robot arms. ;-;

Who needs lightning when your in a badass suit? Lightning is overrated anyways.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Kylo Ren shows incredible raw power in the Force Awakens. Even Vader can't directly rip thoughts from people's minds; if he could, he wouldn't be using the torture droid to interrogate Leia.

Kylo Ren loses against an untrained opponent because

• He's fucking shot.
• The moment he's no longer in control, he loses his balls. Kylo Ren is a character all about putting up a tough image to cover up his insecurities. This is reflected in his visual design: He puts on a Darth Vader-esque mask for no reason but to cover his unimpressive face. That is why, even though he shows more raw power than Luke did in ESB, I think Luke from that movie would still beat him: Because Kylo Ren's greatest weakness is that underneath his whole Darth Vader persona, he's just a whiny kid.
• Also because Rey has the Force and embraces it.

I don't agree the damage he sustained would have prevented him from beating up a Storm Trooper who was sanitation but then went one mission and lost to another Storm Trooper and someone who just discovered the force. Dude just seems so powerful that a blaster shot to the gut, that doesn't remove his mobility, wouldn't necessarily make him lose. If he was shown to be much weaker then yeah I'd believe it but dude was force pushing, pulling, freezing, reading minds, and stopping blaster fire mid air. I can't see his loss as anything but the story needing him to lose and this was the best they came up with. Reminds me of the action cliche where man kills X amount of people but final bad guy knocks him in the back of the head and he's incapacitated: it works but man....

Does this mean hand to hand Kylo Ren is about on par with laser stick Storm Trooper guy?

 

[Zunja]

Except he inconsistently doesn't use the device at all with Rey, although I suspect a bloodied young women wouldn't have gone over well

I don't think that's weird though. I mean he knew she had a map in her head. What was he gonna have her do ask her to draw it lol? It seemed like he just wanted the image imprinted on his mind so torturing really wouldn't do anything.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I think Vader was stronger post mask. This is years of refinement of the dark side rather than just learning to embrace it. I do think his potential might have been stunted after the mask but he was still the strongest incarnation of Anakin at that point just not the strongest possible incarnation of Anakin. If that makes any sense.

Fair enough.

I guess his strongest possible incarnation would be evil Sebastien Shaw, lol.

Well
I'm still thinking that Kylo will destroy everything. And i mean the first order too.
He will be a nihilist that don't believe in anyone and not Snoke at all. He will not have any apprentice, he will want to destroy EVERYTHING like a Black Hole.
I'm kinda thinking that Snoke create a monster that will eat him someday.

That would certainly make more sense than him commanding the First Order.

 

[Starsailor]

Yeah except that means Vader failed to get the location of the rebel base out of Leia's mind with either torture or mind-reading and that didn't ring anything his head.

Like Kylo with Rey

 

[Ether_Snake]

Like Kylo with Rey

Kylo realized she was using the force or whatever. Vader is like "welp I couldn't get the info".

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Tagging the best of the year and I don't think that I have a great way of the year and I don't think that I have a great way of the day before I get a follow back on my way home from work to be the first half of the day before I get a follow back

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I don't think that's weird though. I mean he knew she had a map in her head. What was he gonna have her do ask her to draw it lol? It seemed like he just wanted the image imprinted on his mind so torturing really wouldn't do anything.

Torture her to lower her mental defenses then pull the information out with his jedi mind reading. That's what I assumed he did with Poe in the beginning. It just seemed odd they even strapped her to the device when he had no intention of using it

 

[BronsonLee]

Fucking hell 3 threads

Ya'll need a nap, or an energy drink, or something

 

[jackdoe]

Kylo realized she was using the force or whatever. Vader is like "welp I couldn't get the info".

Meh. I'm just going to go with the real world reason, that George Lucas didn't establish that power until Return of the Jedi. Can't blame JJ Abrams for using something that Lucas established prior to the movie.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

It'd be great if the actress got to choose the color. Yellow would be dope though.

Damn what a great movie. Favorite star wars at this time. Gotta wait for it to settle.

I think Daisy said in an interview that she'd like a pink one with silver polka dots.

Nope.

 

[methane47]

As far as I'm concerned, Vader held back at the start of the final fight in RotJ, but Luke surprised him and even surpassed him. The Emperor knew it, too.



The Sith don't have ranks like the Jedi did. There were ever only two of them. Vader was Sidious' apprentice, but he was still a Sith Lord.

Also, as far as we know, the Knights of Ren aren't Sith. Neither is Snoke. They're something new. Something different.

Wasn't dooku an apprentice of Sidious at the same time as Darth Maul was?
I think Sidious played fast and loose with the rule of two

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Well
I'm still thinking that Kylo will destroy everything. And i mean the first order too.
He will be a nihilist that don't believe in anyone and not Snoke at all. He will not have any apprentice, he will want to destroy EVERYTHING like a Black Hole.
I'm kinda thinking that Snoke create a monster that will eat him someday.

I think Luke / Leia and perhaps Rey will fight for the redemption of Kylo, trying to play on that theme of there still being good in him. However, it won't work, at least not fully. He'll come to that moment when he realizes his hero actually did fully return to the light (not as a lapse), that he was badly misled, and he'll have that whole complicated bit about killing his own father. And yet, he won't embrace the light, he'll just be further overcome by guilt and rage and the object of his anger will be himself and, indeed, that will be what he decides to destroy. Himself. Yes, I think he'll end up lopping off his own head with his lightsaber.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I know but in term of power it seems to me that Kylo is under Vador.
Like a Drago in HP at the second year in Hogwarts

They're just very different. Kylo seems to have a very different grasp of the force than Vader did, and fights very differently. Plus, it's pretty clear Kylo's training hasn't yet been completed.

Wasn't dooku an apprentice of Sidious at the same time as Darth Maul was?
I think Sidious played fast and loose with the rule of two

I don't think that's ever specified. Aren't there like ten years between TPM and AotC?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I think Vader was stronger post mask. This is years of refinement of the dark side rather than just learning to embrace it. I do think his potential might have been stunted after the mask but he was still the strongest incarnation of Anakin at that point just not the strongest possible incarnation of Anakin. If that makes any sense.

I think you can split strength into fighting ability and force ability, if we're going all RPG with this. In terms of fighting ability, Episode 3 Anakin was the peak of Vader's abilities. He was at his most agile and wasn't constantly fighting his robotic body and the constant pain he was in.

In terms of force ability ESB Vader was him at his strongest after nearly 2 decades of tutelage under the Emperor. He was casually blocking shots, parrying Luke's attacks and using his force powers on people he could only see through a monitor (so over large distances)

 

[Starsailor]

Kylo realized she was using the force or whatever. Vader is like "welp I couldn't get the info".

Rey became to be aware of the force BECAUSE Kylo enter into his head

 

[Starsailor]

I think Luke / Leia and perhaps Rey will fight for the redemption of Kylo, trying to play on that theme of there still being good in him. However, it won't work, at least not fully.

I hope not
Fans will never allow kylo to be back on good side. Even if being angry is bad (right yoda? )

 

[Alucard]

Just popped in to say, that line in the film about "that's not how the force works," had me dying.

The delivery was beautiful. Perfect stress and intonation.

"THAT'S not how the force WORKS!"

 

[Grover Cleveland]

I was away for a few days, I thought some producer or someone said she was returning in the next one?

She is.

With a much bigger role.

And hopefully pissed off.

After she was thrown.

In a dumpster.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I think you can split strength into fighting ability and force ability, if we're going all RPG with this. In terms of fighting ability, Episode 3 Anakin was the peak of Vader's abilities. He was at his most agile and wasn't constantly fighting his robotic body and the constant pain he was in.

In terms of force ability ESB Vader was him at his strongest after nearly 2 decades of tutelage under the Emperor. He was casually blocking shots, parrying Luke's attacks and using his force powers on people he could only see through a monitor (so over large distances)

Vader in the suit was just a very different type of opponent from Anakin. Vader was a tank. I think they tried to have Kylo somewhat emulate his style, but he's less effective because he lacks the physicality for it.

Or we're just a bunch of nerds overanalyzing shit, I dunno.

 

[Johndoey]

I was away for a few days, I thought some producer or someone said she was returning in the next one?

She's definitely coming back but she was literally thrown in the trash. Which is hilarious but also sad because they did nothing with the character.

I was nt to express again Boyega is rthe best part of this movie. The smirking "yeah, we do" was fantastic.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

There's no reason to think that Darth Vader couldn't stop a blaster shot in midair. He just blocked them because that was the quickest most efficient way of dealing with it. Kylo stops blaster shots in midair because he wants you to think he's a badass. Darth Vader just is a badass.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I hope not
Fans will never allow kylo to be back on good side. Even if being angry is bad (right yoda? )

He won't be. But that doesn't mean the characters -- his own family -- will not try.

 

[Starsailor]

Vader in the suit was just a very different type of opponent from Anakin. Vader was a tank. I think Kylo tries to emulate that style, since he seems to be fighting in a very similar way. He just doesn't have the physicality for it.

Or we're just a bunch of nerds overanalyzing shit, I dunno.

we're not
kathleen kennedy said that kylo will be very différent than vador so it's good to analyze that

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Rey should get a yellow saberstaff. That is all.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Wasn't dooku an apprentice of Sidious at the same time as Darth Maul was?
I think Sidious played fast and loose with the rule of two

Dunno about Dooku specifically, but Sidious definitely played fast and loose. He already had Anakin in mind when he recruited Dooku. Later he also formed the Inquisitors. In the old EU he also formed the Emperor's Hands and a bunch of other dark side elites. Not to mention all his own clones.

 

[80s Bad Guy]

Kylo realized she was using the force or whatever. Vader is like "welp I couldn't get the info".

Kylo had to crawl back to Snokes all moody like, "that girl kicked my ass master".

Then she did it again.

 

[Jest Chillin]

there is no way that the knight of ren are equal to a sith lord

Not what I was getting at.

Knights of Ren aren't Sith. They're just Darkside users.

And Apprentice and Master aren't ranks that list skill level or power in regards to Sith. They're roughly experience level but primarily are just which one is in charge and which one follows.

Vader was never a Sith Master yet Palpatine acknowledged that Vader was stronger in The Force than he was. Dooku could use Force Lightning but was never a Master. He was Palpatine's Apprentice (who feigned to have apprentices of his own but never really did).

So there really isn't a ranking like that. The Jedi listing is accurate, though again, Jedi ranks don't represent power level or skill level. Just ranks.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

There's no reason to think that Darth Vader couldn't stop a blaster shot in midair. He just blocked them because that was the quickest most efficient way of dealing with it. Kylo stops blaster shots in midair because he wants you to think he's a badass. Darth Vader just is a badass.

If Lucas had the SFX in 1980 he would have made Vader stop the blaster shots like Ren did.

But then, Lucas may have also had him whip out his laser sword and dance around like a spider monkey to deflect the shots.

 

[Mariolee]

The thing I look forward to in these spoiler threads is the awesome art that Bobby will undoubtedly post.

 

[Johndoey]

Dooku was Jedi trained though. He was kinda his own man more than Maul.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Shit, we're on thread #3 already? Fastest movie to thread #3 on Gaf?

 

[80s Bad Guy]

If Lucas had the SFX in 1980 he would have made Vader stop the blaster shots like Ren did.

But then, Lucas may have also had him whip out his laser sword and dance around like a spider monkey to deflect the shots.

In the new version Vader jumps up on the table, "I have the high ground Solo! You can't shoot up!"

 

[MMarston]

We need a Rey version of this wallpaper

 

[Starsailor]

There's no reason to think that Darth Vader couldn't stop a blaster shot in midair. He just blocked them because that was the quickest most efficient way of dealing with it. Kylo stops blaster shots in midair because he wants you to think he's a badass. Darth Vader just is a badass.

well...Kylo IS BADASS

Edit: Finn just take the most strongest attack with a lightsaber in the saga and he survived

 

[Johndoey]

Rey should get a yellow saberstaff. That is all.

How about lightsaber nunchucks.

 

[Blue Ninja]

we're not
kathleen kennedy said that kylo will be very différent than vador so it's good to analyze that

Well, we are.

But I enjoy looking at the little things they added for us. I received the art book yesterday, there was so much cool shit in there.

Kylo has a very specific fighting style and serious anger management issues. I like the fact that he tries to fight like Vader did, as a literal tank. I wonder how he's going to evolve later.

 

[Johndoey]

well...Kylo IS BADASS

You prove that with a gif of him fighting an untrained combatant?

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

When nerds don't even speak their own language...

She's talking to you? It's not a euphemism.

Darn

 

[Crossing Eden]

Who needs lightning when your in a badass suit? Lightning is overrated anyways.

I'm sure Vader would agree if lightning wasn't the thing that killed him.

 

[Loxley]

Fucking hell 3 threads

Ya'll need a nap, or an energy drink, or something

But we have questions man. Questions.

 

[Starsailor]

You prove that with a gif of him fighting an untrained combatant?

ok how about this

 

[MMarston]

How about lightsaber nunchucks.

what about lightsaber claws

 

[Jest Chillin]

Dunno about Dooku specifically, but Sidious definitely played fast and loose. He already had Anakin in mind when he recruited Dooku. Later he also formed the Inquisitors. In the old EU he also formed the Emperor's Hands and a bunch of other dark side elites. Not to mention all his own clones.

This is where things are kind of murky. The Rule of Two doesn't mean there can only ever be two Darkside users. Just that there can only ever be allowed One Master and One Apprentice. Every other Darkside user must be kept to a minimum of training/knowledge given to keep them in line.

When there were more than just One Master and One Apprentice, the Sith constantly fought amongst themselves. The Rule of Two attempts to prevent that by consolidating the knowledge and experience to One Master who then passes on his/her knowledge to the Apprentice, who will one day try to kill the Master and take on their own apprentice. And so on and so forth.

 

[Johndoey]

ok how about this

I just realized Ren is currently the designated jobber.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

what about lightsaber claws

I swear this turned up in the old EU.

 

[Toxi]

Does this mean hand to hand Kylo Ren is about on par with laser stick Storm Trooper guy?

This might surprise you, but being shot and then bleeding from an open wound kinda fucks you up.