Liquidsnake
Banned
Going for third viewing tomorrow.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
I'm thinking on going for a third as well.
Let me know how that goes.
Atraveller
Banned
I didn't notice New Republic ships getting blown up until my fourth viewing, it happened so fast.
Took my parents yesterday. They haven't been to the movies since 200x. They loved the movie.
Taking my gf today, after I've watched all six films with her (she hated the prequels).
I don't like the soundtrack all that much. Reys theme is nice, but the resistance theme isn't.
I also noticed they entered the final starkiller fight with only 12 xwings and leave with 7.
Taking my gf today, after I've watched all six films with her (she hated the prequels).
I don't like the soundtrack all that much. Reys theme is nice, but the resistance theme isn't.
I also noticed they entered the final starkiller fight with only 12 xwings and leave with 7.
That's why we see them not in hyperspace in all the shots they're shown in. But obviously they have hyperspace engines strapped to them or else how could a bunch of them turn at the last minute.
Akbar (?) calls it a "hyperlight weapon". So, you know, that's how it works. "Hyperlight".
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
You'd think by now they'd have a shitload more X-wings for the assault against the starkiller base and maybe a cap ship or two thrown in for good measure.
Also where the hell were the Y-wings and B-wings which specialise in these type of heavy strike engagements.
As for the starkiller beams: how did the beams enter hyperspace? Da fuq?
Also where the hell were the Y-wings and B-wings which specialise in these type of heavy strike engagements.
As for the starkiller beams: how did the beams enter hyperspace? Da fuq?
Atraveller
Banned
Rule of cool and whatnot, and new EU writers gotta fill in the blanks. Just like lightsaber is superheated plasma generated by a lightsaber crystal encased in force field blah blah, most of us don't care, it looks cool and it works.
Jest Chillin
Member
Because Star Wars has always offered salient and scientifically accurate descriptions of how its technology works.
It's perfectly reasonable to critique TFA to a level far beyond what has ever been leveled at the OT or even the PT because reasons.
It's perfectly reasonable to critique TFA to a level far beyond what has ever been leveled at the OT or even the PT because reasons.
excelsiorlef
Member
Watch the scene again his face is fearful during the initial escape, he doesn't start to get into it a celebrate a bit until he takes out the laser on the Star Destroyer in fact the only time he gets really happy is when he shoots down a Tie Fighter or blows up a cannon/laser/missile he never really gets super into shooting people, he'll do it but that's just to survive.
You over play the severity by an extreme amount
I didn't really understood the blown up planet as the heart of the new republic but rather an important hub/of it (with a senat). There was no fleet there so the remains of the republic should have still a lot of firepower.
Need to see it a second time to get all little details dropped in side sentences.
Disney probably casted a looot of pretty girls but the really took a very cute "girl next door" type. Probably a lot of fappening happening right now with SW nerds.
My exact thoughts when i saw that they started the attack with only X-Wings. And i know the EU is canned but after that long, the "empire" still not has newer Tie Fighter modells like the Tie Interceptor?
Need to see it a second time to get all little details dropped in side sentences.
Disney probably casted a looot of pretty girls but the really took a very cute "girl next door" type. Probably a lot of fappening happening right now with SW nerds.
My exact thoughts when i saw that they started the attack with only X-Wings. And i know the EU is canned but after that long, the "empire" still not has newer Tie Fighter modells like the Tie Interceptor?
excelsiorlef
Member
And yet so many of these same people are all pissed that Kylo isn't cool and badass. Weird balance.
Same, it's fun to see these little details.
Saw it in IMAX for my 4th, the score sounds so good in IMAX.
I'm digging Kylo's not imperial march theme and totally grooving to The Resistance theme, an Rey's theme is of course awesome as always.
I was thinking that the reason that we don't get a lot of blatant repeated themes in this one is that John Williams really wanted to make The Force Theme stand out, which makes total sense, the movie is called The Force Awakens afterall. But yeah that theme is used to perfection in so many key moments, allowing the rest of the score the be a little bit more ambient than usual really helped make those Force theme moments stand out even more IMO.
Still mulling it over. I liked it a lot but also thought, on reflection, there were more flaws than apparent watching it as it is very good at propelling you along which helps paper over the cracks.
Rey, Finn, Kylo and Poe were all good and the performances felt fresh and genuine next to the inert style of the prequels. Very welcome and nicely recaptured the feel of ANH (with arguably better performances too).
Ford did a nice job and it was quite a relief to see him actually invest in a role for the first time in what feels like ages. He served well as the main bridge from the old to the new and I guess Ford can be happy he finally got the big death scene he wanted for Jedi that Lucas wouldn't allow. Wouldn't be surprised if Ford made it a condition of returning that he gets killed off TBH.
Fisher essentially provides an anchor for Ford's performance and simply picks up an older, wearier warrior still doing the same shit. Not a huge role but it worked well and the combination of their love theme when the two intereacted certainly worked wonders to help fill in the huge time gap and what's happened in their relationship.
Luke - well he's the Maguffin for the film, the thing everyone is chasing and other than that he's hardly there. My main gripe with his character is the setting for his reveal at the end. I'd been there in real life and it really took me out of the moment (as did the overlong hold on the tablaux of Rey holding out the saber to a mutely staring Luke). They really needed to massage that shot with some simple CGI additions to the landscape to make it less recognisable to those of us who've visited Ireland (unless I'm not recognizing the place I haven't checked shooting locations to be sure).
The film itself is two in one. A new narrative featuring Rey, Finn, Kylo, etc. that sets up The Order (handled pretty well), the new Republic (handled very poorly) and the Resistance (a superfluous and I'd argue unnecessary attempt to overly recreate the same political set up as ANH). Overlapping this is a more or less straight repeat of the main plot of ANH complete with my main JJ Abrams bugbear from Star Trek, a bigger super weapon that is also confusion and potentially Universe breaking. I did not like the idea of Starkiller base and found it very poorly executed and shoehorned in. This narrative also tries to both tie up elements of the original trio (Luke, Han, Leia's) lives since the OT and link them into the new narrative. Mostly okay but the entire second half of the film feels rushed and bloated as a result.
The film also tries to mix the more self contained nature of ANH with the more open nature of ESB with mixed but mostly acceptable results.
Overall it more or less works and it's clearly what was needed (more or less) to recover from the prequels (and Kinect dancing games!).
Myself though I think, currently anyway, the film would have been better without Starkiller base as a superweapon. I'd have dropped that whole plot thread, dropped the final dogfight/bombing run and instead simply have Han and Finn out to rescue a captured Rey from Kylo (with Han having his own second reason for the mission).
I'd have taken the time saved to:
I'd also have dropped the idea of a Resistance. They're spies at this point so far as I can tell, watching the New Order for the Republic unofficially. They're not actually resisting anything yet as (unless I picked it up wrong) the New Order and the Republic are at peace with a truce of sorts.
The events in the film should have served as a catalyst for the New Order's true colours to be revealed and the begining of a new resistance fighting to preserve the newly formed republic.
But issues aside it was great in IMAX, the tone was right and that was the main thing. It felt like the SW of ANH and EMSB.
The next one has to be fully it's own narrative though IMHO. Another re-tread might make commercial sense but I'd find it creatively bankrupt then.
Rey, Finn, Kylo and Poe were all good and the performances felt fresh and genuine next to the inert style of the prequels. Very welcome and nicely recaptured the feel of ANH (with arguably better performances too).
Ford did a nice job and it was quite a relief to see him actually invest in a role for the first time in what feels like ages. He served well as the main bridge from the old to the new and I guess Ford can be happy he finally got the big death scene he wanted for Jedi that Lucas wouldn't allow. Wouldn't be surprised if Ford made it a condition of returning that he gets killed off TBH.
Fisher essentially provides an anchor for Ford's performance and simply picks up an older, wearier warrior still doing the same shit. Not a huge role but it worked well and the combination of their love theme when the two intereacted certainly worked wonders to help fill in the huge time gap and what's happened in their relationship.
Luke - well he's the Maguffin for the film, the thing everyone is chasing and other than that he's hardly there. My main gripe with his character is the setting for his reveal at the end. I'd been there in real life and it really took me out of the moment (as did the overlong hold on the tablaux of Rey holding out the saber to a mutely staring Luke). They really needed to massage that shot with some simple CGI additions to the landscape to make it less recognisable to those of us who've visited Ireland (unless I'm not recognizing the place I haven't checked shooting locations to be sure).
The film itself is two in one. A new narrative featuring Rey, Finn, Kylo, etc. that sets up The Order (handled pretty well), the new Republic (handled very poorly) and the Resistance (a superfluous and I'd argue unnecessary attempt to overly recreate the same political set up as ANH). Overlapping this is a more or less straight repeat of the main plot of ANH complete with my main JJ Abrams bugbear from Star Trek, a bigger super weapon that is also confusion and potentially Universe breaking. I did not like the idea of Starkiller base and found it very poorly executed and shoehorned in. This narrative also tries to both tie up elements of the original trio (Luke, Han, Leia's) lives since the OT and link them into the new narrative. Mostly okay but the entire second half of the film feels rushed and bloated as a result.
The film also tries to mix the more self contained nature of ANH with the more open nature of ESB with mixed but mostly acceptable results.
Overall it more or less works and it's clearly what was needed (more or less) to recover from the prequels (and Kinect dancing games!).
Myself though I think, currently anyway, the film would have been better without Starkiller base as a superweapon. I'd have dropped that whole plot thread, dropped the final dogfight/bombing run and instead simply have Han and Finn out to rescue a captured Rey from Kylo (with Han having his own second reason for the mission).
I'd have taken the time saved to:
- explain New Order and Republic better
- provide deeper context to Han, Lei and Kylo (Ben)'s relationship, possibly with flashback actually showing them with him. He felt too disconnected from them in the film and his big scene with Han would have been far more powerful again with stronger sense they really are father and son other than a line of dialogue revealing that
- Allowed more time for Rey to go from "never touching that again" to wielding Vader and Luke's Saber
- Explain the Knights of Ren and Snoke a little more (without giving anything away)
I'd also have dropped the idea of a Resistance. They're spies at this point so far as I can tell, watching the New Order for the Republic unofficially. They're not actually resisting anything yet as (unless I picked it up wrong) the New Order and the Republic are at peace with a truce of sorts.
The events in the film should have served as a catalyst for the New Order's true colours to be revealed and the begining of a new resistance fighting to preserve the newly formed republic.
But issues aside it was great in IMAX, the tone was right and that was the main thing. It felt like the SW of ANH and EMSB.
The next one has to be fully it's own narrative though IMHO. Another re-tread might make commercial sense but I'd find it creatively bankrupt then.
excelsiorlef
Member
The fleet was there, you saw part of it go boom as the planet did and Hux blatantly says the fleet is there in his Nazi speech..
I think Daisy got the part because she can act but hey way to show why Carrie Fisher warned her about her future now that she's in Star Wars,
I would imagine that only a tiny part of the New Republic fleet was actually in orbit of the capital world, most of the fleet would be spread out in many other star systems.
Of course due to the chaos of the capital world being destroyed it's unlikely they were able to organize for an offensive against the starkiller base in time for the resistance attack.
Atraveller
Banned
I like Kylo's theme as well, such an underrated tune! Depending on the score and character development in episode 8 and 9, it just might become as iconic as Imperial March.
And you raised a very interesting point, I remember watching Jurassic World and it played the theme so prematurely it fell flat.
brandonh83
Banned
The Force theme was too overplayed IMO. Using it once when she pulls the saber out of the snow would have been enough. Speaking of Jurassic World, Giacchino only really plays the original two themes at two moments early on, the rest of it is comprised of his own themes and thus were not reliant on them at all. More of that please and less spamming of old themes.
They should BE there, but not excessively.
They should BE there, but not excessively.
Atraveller
Banned
And it felt unearned.
Jest Chillin
Member
The fleet was pretty much in dry dock. The New Republic was at peace and their military force had been cut down by a significant amount.
Hosnian system being destroyed will functionally (but not necessarily completely) obliterate The New Republic. The majority of the Senate will have been destroyed as well as the majority, if not all, of their standing military force. That doesn't disolve the unity of the other planets in The Republic but it will take time to re-elect representatives and rebuild a respectable armada. This will no doubt be harried by The First Order though as while they lost their super weapon, they lost very little of their actual armada as far as we know.
brandonh83
Banned
One theme plays over the introduction of the new park. Felt fine and reasonable to me. After that the other theme plays at the end of the helicopter ride, which also felt reasonable. After that, those themes are only briefly used again.
The new Republic and the Starkiller are not central plot parts in TFA, they are just accessories. The destruction of the Hosnian system and the attempted destruction of the Resistance are not driven by the political battle for power, they are just the tools used to stop the search for Luke. Besides being the weapon used to achieve that, Starkiller also serves as the set up for the Han vs. Kylo and Kylo vs. Finn and Rey confrontations
Oh god, now I remembered how awful were the lightsaber fights in the prequels.
Oh god, now I remembered how awful were the lightsaber fights in the prequels.
Is TFA worth seeing in the IMAX?
My friend wants to go, but I'm not entirely sure if I can justify the price of it yet.
I definitely want to see it again though!
Also a few of my friends made a Star Wars Sweded trailer (much like their Jurassic World one), which is currently making its way around a bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG3awJsmAmw
My friend wants to go, but I'm not entirely sure if I can justify the price of it yet.
I definitely want to see it again though!
Also a few of my friends made a Star Wars Sweded trailer (much like their Jurassic World one), which is currently making its way around a bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG3awJsmAmw
In the art book JJ said there were too many
Who cares anyway? This is Star Wars, a space fairy tale. Not Star Trek
excelsiorlef
Member
See I so disagree, each time it was a slightly different take on it and each moment was huge, accepting her destiny, letting the force be with her and that face to face with Luke are all significantly different force related moments. It's used elsewhere too I think but each time was earned imo.
Best usage of that theme is in this movie imo. This is the Force's movie, it's absolutely a character here.
Yes, though the 3D is whatever, the screen size (assuming it's not one of those fake IMAX) is amazing and the sound is the best I'd heard it, really takes advantage of that extra ooomph you get from the IMAX sound system.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I don't think they destroyed the Republic. Doesn't it span most of the galaxy? They destroyed the system where the Senate was located, but they didn't the whole of the Republic which would have meant destroying most of the galaxy.
excelsiorlef
Member
Right, it's basically the equivalent of someone nuking (without the nuclear fallout) Washington, DC while the Senate, House and President are all there.
The rest of the country would be physically fine but man things would still be incredibly fucked and chaotic.
the black pearl
Member
I just rewatched Revenge of the Sith. It's basically Devil May Cry, in space.
Still struggling with my resolution to finally finish watching The Clone Wars, season 4 almost done, it got slightly better but not much. I can't even properly explain why I find it this boring. The part of that has to be the art style, I loathe it, and all that grasshoppering, it's just so silly. I wish they went full anime, like avatar series.
I'm OK with this description
I'm OK with this description
That still doesn't explain the total willingness to kill members of group he recently belonged to and looked exactly like.
what's to explain? if he hated being there and was treated poorly and didn't connect with anyone and think they are all plain evil for doing those horrible things and feeling nothing. He kills killers, doesn't he?
Is it really that hard to understand?
WadiumArcadium
Member
Is that a good or a bad thing? I've never played a DMC.
the black pearl
Member
I like that he's an enigma. It's contrived, although still makes just enough sense. While you could argue he's the most unrealistic SW character, I think its appealing. I think it could be better realized but I also kind of liked the efficiency that it played out with. I feel a little bit fickle here.
But presumably other troopers have experienced this same dilemma and just lacked the chance to escape. The lack of any real hesitation on his part doesn't make sense to me.
I mean its not like it's a huge issue I just didn't like how it played out.
dreamcastmaster
Banned
If Disney wants, Disney gets. They are not leaving millions on the table for an extended cut.
the black pearl
Member
Although, really, I'm fickle about every minute of this movie.
the black pearl
Member
I don't like the movie much. I like the Plaguis thing, though.
but you see that's the point, it's a movie not a book there is no time to explain everything in detail nor it's desirable, and a movie clearly shows us that of all the troopers only he doesn't want to kill peaceful people, no other trooper hesitates, he plans running away alone, what clearly shows there is nobody to run with either, they are fine were they are doing what they are doing. Granted, they are brainwashed probably or at least raised so from very tender age, but contemplating this wouldn't do much for Finn, he's fighting for his life and freedom.
Ah ok. But why was the the whole (or major parts) of NR fleet there? If most of the Republic fleet really got destroyed there, this makes it even more stupid for me. They really need 20 min of EP VIII for some better world building and fill in some story gaps between VI and VII.
I think Daisy acted well and i like her (in a non fapping way) but come on, you think Disney would have put anyone else who is not very cute/adorable in this role? And i also think every major role who signed for EP VII-IX didn't need a reminder how participating in the world biggest IP, with rabid fans can change your acting career.
Atraveller
Banned
Everyone thought Avenger 2 was getting an extended cut, but it didn't.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I didn't mention anything about celebrating. And you're misremembering it. He's fearful getting to the TIE and that's it. Once he's inside and shoots at his fellow soldiers, he has not hesitation.
Prof. Bathtub
Member
Here is the description in the art book:
Says nothing about JJ or Disney. It actually praises the concise design philosophies in RotJ. If anything, the statement might be contrasting itself to busyness found in things like the Transformers movies, though perhaps not since that's also ILM. There may be a decision around more/less ship types, but look elsewhere for the exact rationale.
I find it hard to believe that the majority of the fleet was in dry dock or that the New Republic would cut down their fleet significantly if there are threats out there like the New Order (and for all we know the New Order isn't the only Imperial faction remaining). It's not really a situation like WW2 where most of our Pacific Fleet was at Pear Harbor, the size of the Star Wars Galaxy is so much bigger then our oceans and would require a massive fleet.
Nah, not in response to anyone in particular. I wasn't referencing the fight, but the quote by Dooku in a cheeky manner. Ren was prideful, so he fell
The best parts of this fight have nothing to do with lightsabers. Palpatine's egging on, Count Dooku's face at one point, Obi Wan being flung like a rag doll.
DragonSworne
Banned
Weird that people read the art book as it was contrary to ROTJ when it actually praises it.
Must be another Berenstain bear thing.
Must be another Berenstain bear thing.
Heh, I was thinking the same thing at the time and for shits and giggles Googled it.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/120mm_ventral_gun
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
This was sent to me by someone with a pretty valid question:
Is this Rey? It doesn't really look like her, but it could just be compression. It's the last frame during the Knights of Ren flashback.
Is this Rey? It doesn't really look like her, but it could just be compression. It's the last frame during the Knights of Ren flashback.
looks like Rey to me
Yep, that's Rey.
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