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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
prag16
Banned
Star Wars isn't hard scifi, I get it. But this was a bridge too far. No goddamn clue how this was allowed to make it into the movie. Far more absurd than pretty much anything else in the franchise. Within the framework of what they have established are "the rules".
Link to Hidalgo's explanation handy?
EDIT: Ugh
https://mobile.twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/679446507716653056
If that was a joke, then what's the actual explanation besides "because JJ".
Remember when Han dove at Starkiller at lightspeed? How he broke atmo and flipped out of lightspeed ~manually~? He's not just mad, he's magic. Han Force Sensitive confirmed.
That wasn't an explanation that was a joke.
That wasn't an explanation that was a joke.
TheSadRanger
Banned
You know the stuff with Han and his son was a pretty bold story decision. I just think that audiences are so desensitized these days that absolutely nothing will shock them anymore.
I'm already in agreement that at the very least she ought to be another anomaly of the force itself. Which is in contrast to her being "insignificant" as you initially said.
Also, Snoke is a huge unknown quantity. There is nothing really solid about him, which is portrayed literally in the film by having him just be a hologram the whole time. Can't really say he's unremarkable if there is nothing to remark about him. At the very least, it's the opposite. He leads the First Order and bosses the Knights of Ren. The latter of which slaughtered Jedi trained by Luke Skywalker himself and drove Luke into exile. BTW the leader of those Knights is Kylo. These people (Kylo and Snoke) aren't anything to take lightly if they can cause this much trouble.
Frank the Great
Banned
Ah. We agree with each other then. I was unclear when I said "insignificant." I only meant insignificant in terms of her relationship to existing characters, the Republic, and the Resistance before TFA.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Just watched it. The moment it happens is when not-Coruscant was destroyed. It's asked myself why I should care about it and then that just took me out of the movie. That was my loose thread.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
That left me feeling cold as well, it wasn't horrible, but there is no real impact. Like a lot of things with this movie, had it been introduced earlier (or at all) it would have been move than just a random planet exploding. I wonder if the the 20 minute longer cut would fix some of these complaints.
The Outsider
Member
From the novelization, there is a scene where Leia sends an envoy to Hosnian Prime. I forget the specifics of the scene right now, but the envoy she sends is present in the destruction scene that's in the final cut, played by Maisie Richardson-Sellers. Keeping that first bit in probably would have helped give at least a little resonance to the scene in the way that Leia's connection to Alderaan made its destruction so powerful.
Much like Luke was subconsciously using the Force to murder large mammals from his airspeeder, or Anakin was subconsciously using the force to do his pod racing thing (ugh), Rey was probably using the Force to go solo spelunking through massive caverns full of environmental hazards and unexplored ordinance without dying.
Okay, so I just saw the film and did they really blow up the Republic? I thought it was just some heavily populated outer rim planet or something, since no one really seemed to care that much about it. Seems like destroying the center of the new galactic government should have been a bigger deal.
The galaxy just feels a lot smaller overall in this movie somehow.
The galaxy just feels a lot smaller overall in this movie somehow.
OricWindstar
Member
Blowjobs are awesome.
neoism
Member
well i fucking finally got to see it...
gonna say even though i really liked it.. im a little disappointed...this movie plays it sooo fucking safe its annoying....
a bunch of other things also....
no funeral for han... what the fuck.... Rey seemed the most sad.. Leia, seemed a little sad and chewy just huahuhed...�� what the fuck...
I was also fucked over i justed didnt have time to see it the first week and got fucking spoiled on fucking reddit.. and even though i did i really didnt ruin the movie... that scene was filmed in a way i just knew it was gonna happen... plus i knew harrison wouldnt want to do two more.. he was great in this also..not enough of him at all...
the movie was waaay to brezzy... its like after han was gone they tried to end the movie as quick as possible...
Ken was literally the sadest villian in a SW movie ive seen.. he just fucking sucked Rey just closes her eye and breathes a little and ownt him..�� i understand he will be back and their is no going back for him...i hope he is actually a badass in the next two..
Fin lol brah was mad hot for rey....not that i blame him but it just kind of comes out of no where...
poor fucking Luke like what the fuck.... didnt even get a line... �� also i didnt like the way the did the final scene witht the aerial shot ..it should been like this when rey was handing out the saber he should have took it with the force and opened it... then credits...
and about the post i quoted.. i dont see that happening... shes either lukes daughter or someone else known... why "hide her on the desert planet.. unless for her protection....
not sure for me even though TPM gets serious hate their was waaaaaaaaaay more hype, mainly because of the 30 year wait... but this movie was a 10 year wait and it just felt like build up waaaay to much.. it should have been 20 more mintues and had more character development... also the saber battle wasnt that great at all... i still thing TPM has the best saber battle... even though its a weak film..
it was well dierected but fuckking JJ just played it waaay to safe.. it also has the best acting... and BB8 was the shit...but it should have been more...
lolololol yea Kappa
Tell us how you really feel
The Outsider
Member
In a way, yes. Republic planets and a good chunk of the fleet were blown up by Starkiller. Could have been conveyed better though, I agree.
neoism
Member
as long as he doesnt suck... fucking darth maul was a cooler bad guy... Ren could some simi cool flips with his saber but otherwise he was just.....bad.. Driver is a cool actor though
dat nose...Kappa
Union Carbine
Member
Yeah. It's funny that in ANH, the destruction of Alderan works much better because of Leia's connection to it. Here there's no connection at all.
Saw the film for the second time today, went with my wife after seeing it by myself the first time, and the shield generator mission on the star killer doesn't make sense to me: why don't all the x-wings do the light speed entry trick? They never explain why only Han and the Falcon can do it.
The TR-8R meme is hilarious but I hated that bit in the trailer (and I took some heat for saying so in the thread at the time) and I hate it in the full film-- it does absolutely nothing for the plot, it's a total throwaway, and each time I see that guy drop his blaster and shield thing to fire up his laser-shovel and yell, "traitor", it completely pulls me out of the moment. I almost busted out laughing at it today and I hadn't even seen the meme yet.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
ESB SE. Oh, planet. You got me.
neoism
Member
lol nothing wrong with her but she could be the girl next door, nothing mind blowing.
shes cute as a fucking button.... really glad they let her use her accent...
yeah but it's all we've got, so i'm using it!
heliosRAzi
Banned
There's that and it was the initial destination for Obi and Luke. So it's a huge setback
I dig Kylo and Maul. Maul's lack of personality was made up for in The Clone Wars. So he's good. Kylo's off to a much better start than Anakin. I can actually understand his actions, and his conflicted nature was faaaaaaaaar better expressed in one scene than the entirety of Anakin's internal conflict across 3 films. I love that he's fucking beautiful under the mask. It's like a more tasteful and effective execution of Kojima's B&B corps.
Yeah, I guess the whole state of the galaxy just isn't well explained. The Republic is back, and then it's gone. There's Resistance against... something, and a New Order that the Republic doesn't seem to know or care about. Nobody seems to care the Republic is getting blown up, it's only serious when the weapon targets the resistance, which I guess happens to be in the next system over.
It's all just weird. I enjoyed the film, but the larger conflict isn't as well defined as it was in the first Star Wars.
I thought it was weird at first but it grew on me very quickly. Doesn't hurt that she's totes adorbs.
neoism
Member
yeah that was the other thing why did they even mention Darth Vader at all to him when he was growing up you think having such an evil grandfather they wouldn't even tell him of his existence it just came off was funny that he wanted to be better than him when he never even met him.
I guess it may have come up with Luke when he was training him but it just seems silly to even tell him about them at all.
neoism
Member
yeah i agree Driver is a good actor though... i just watched a movie called American heist with Hayden Christiansen he just over acts waaaay to much i mean hes not terrible he just "overacts"
yeah I'm real glad that he actually took off his mask helmet as well. dat nose... no wonder he played Harrison's son Kappa
Union Carbine
Member
The problem I have with Kylo is his motivation for the dark side-- saying "well, he had too much Vader in him" is not nearly enough for me.
Should have just repeated the Obi Wan hearing the cries of millions of voices from episode IV but with Leia. Shits stupid to be seeing other solar system activity at the same second it happens. Light speed means what exactly?
I like how he starts to run after punching the guy, then turns back like he's just gotten the idea to toss him into the tentacle thing. Small touch but it was hilarious.
neoism
Member
I hope the second movie starts off with a funeral scene ...probably the most thing that gets on my nerves about this movie,is that they just brush off his death and 10 minutes later the movies over. this movie had no breathing room, no downtime it just seems like it was just a two hours of constant action I feel like it could've been 30 more minutes longer with how breezy it was and it wouldn't have felt long at all. i'm a fan of long movies though.
Union Carbine
Member
As much as we'd like to think that these guys think about the plausibility of some of these things, or how they fit into the universe, etc. first and foremost, I think it's evident that the "coolness" of an effect/shot/moment comes first-- whether it's Kylo freezing the blaster shot, or him watching the lazy moving ginormous laser gliding by his star destroyer, or the Resistance (hate that name, it makes no sense) watching the destruction of another solar system in real time. Maybe they'll conjure up some reasoning after the fact, maybe they won't, but it's clearly of secondary importance (if that).
That was savage and bloodthirsty, cruel for no good reason. Wasn't even a life-or-death move. That monster was going to get to that guy first, let the dude have a chance to defend himself damn Han you heartless motherfucker.
Union Carbine
Member
I thought the same thing about the film's pace but my wife actually felt it was slow for her at times.
What kind of movies does she watch?!
To be fair, moments before the guy had just been told to kill Han, and would have given the chance. Instead Han used him to save himself. It was a perfect reflection of his character, ala Han shot first.
"I went back to doing the only thing I was good at."
It's something they could rectify with an extended cut of the movie. Add the stuff with Maz that they had to cut as well.
DarkJediKnight
Member
These are only the first steps...
Obi-Wan's age:
TPM - 25
AOTC - 35
ROTS - 38
ANH - 58
He looked like a man in his 60s, which is fine, because living on Tatooine is harsh life. That will age you.
Agreed. As a very astute poster above points out, it could be the Republic's connection to 456 that should make you care. I thought the whole thing was weak because the republic is basically a nonentity in the movie. But they jump from the happiness of the ending of rotj to oh shit there's basically empire 2.0 again with the title crawl. Characters don't even discuss how things are different with the republic. I'd prefer they show why the republic is good... I dunno, quick mention of like democracy or something...or even give han a throwaway line or two just to draw some contrast.
The republic is a Nothing so I don't care if it gets destroyed. Or at least I shouldn't care. For some reason I really do. Again I think because of the tie to 456. But I sorta feel like everything those characters did was for naught. Luke lives in exile. Leia is still fighting for some " resistance ". Han can't be with his family. Was anything ever good?
neoism
Member
would be awesome but has JJ ever even done extended cuts...hes usually final with his theatrical cut.. which is sad.. even deleted scenes wouldbe awesome...
I can understand that. The film did leave a lot of questions up in the air about a lot characters. This amongst many things (Finn's immediate willingness to become a TRAITOR, Rey's whole can of worms) will likely be explored in other films and media.
I literally hopped up a bit and said "Yesssss! Han shot first. That's what he does." God it felt so right.
It's funny that we all complained about how the old EU ruined the OT3's lives and yet here we are again. Apparently none of them will ever catch a break.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Felt like there was stuff missing from the assault on Maz's place too. We see one frame of tie fighters attacking then the entire place is rubble lol.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Imagine you are the descendant of the chosen one, the greatest force sensitive Jedi and the baddest killer Sith of all time.
You know your destiny is to be great because you're a Skywalker. Your Uncle who is teaching you is a legend. Too much Vader is the unrelentless quest to be the greatest ever! The passion that drive such motivation leads to the dark side. Leia regrets sending him to Luke because that's how he discovered his potential with the force - and that was always going to conflict because of his goals.
Make no mistake, Kylo is stupid powerful in the force.
Yeah, the moment in A New Hope had more of a lead up. Alderaan was a focal point of the movie at that point. Two of our heroes were trying to get there to deliver the plans that would lead to victory. Something or someone good and desperately needed was on the planet. Then this sense of importance was reinforced by Leia, a native of the planet, being forced to witness it's destruction. And we'd known about the Death Star and its capabilities since the opening crawl, so finally seeing it in action further reinforced the significance of the moment.
There wasn't much build up in The Force Awakens. We only find out about Starkiller Base and its weaponry shortly before it's first used. We're told about the systems it's used on basically right before they get destroyed. We know one is the capital of the Republic, but our heroes are part of the Resistance and the movie is cloudy about how the two are connected. Our heroes aren't trying to get there, nor do we know anybody from it and see how it affects them.
The movie seemed to imply that that was a very difficult maneuver and might not even be possible. Sending the X-Wings to do the same thing would have been really risky. The Resistance would have had no plan B if they all just crashed into the station/planet.*
Interestingly, the maneuver was also very reminiscent of a moment cut from the first draft of The Phantom Menace. When returning to Naboo at the end, the Queen's ship must come out of hyperspace just above the planet to avoid the Trade Federation's ships. The pilot complains that the ship's computer can't do the calculations for that. Qui-Gon has Anakin take the controls and time it up perfectly using the Force.
* A question about that. Is Starkiller Base a planet that has been carved out, or is it a giant space station?
It is almost certainly the planet Ilum.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
If it is Ilum, I wonder if that's going to play some sort of part in the sun created from its ruin.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
It was only done like that to delay the reveal of Finn's midichlorians. If it wasn't visible then there would only be one possible reason for Finn's reaction.
/devil'sadvocate
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