CityHunter1981
Member
And still waiting for Squadron 42. do they wait until Mark Hamil dies of old age and they can market it as the last game with him?
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Star Citizen Alpha 3.23 update: Adventure Beckons (Fauna, Creature Hunting plus more)
- Thread starter Bullet Club
- Start date
TVexperto
Member
You know what's funny is they've shown us that they lack any creative bones in their bodies when it comes to missions other than go here, kill the target, leave or go here, deliver/pickup this, go to other location, done...these aren't even hopes and dreams they're cope's. They don't even have trains or elevators that work, but yeah let's believe they've got all of that in the pipeline.
Starbuck2907
Member
People keep paying because they like what’s been delivered so far. They see progress and like playing the alpha.
nemiroff
Gold Member
Been a while but this video was damn cool for a glimpse into 4.0 - Jump points / Pyro / Ship interfaces
There's missing VFX for the wormholes, their visual target is something like this :
Screenshots of the new cockpits
And 4.0 coming in the next few months, he iterates not by end of the year, next few months
Oh, wait, in next few months,??? That's for sure a surprise to me - and to everyone.
And we still have 3.24 coming right around the corner with lots of upgrades/updates.
If this materializes they're going to do yet another record-year in funding.
It's going to be a busy year
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TVexperto
Member
Next few months? Yeah right, wait where did I hear that before?And 4.0 coming in the next few months, he iterates not by end of the year, next few months
how often was 4.0 delayed since this 2016?
Buggy Loop
Member
This Citizencon in October will be interesting for SQ42
I think we’ll have a release date, something like Q1 or Q2 2025
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
Sunken cost fallacy. Folks have a hard time letting go and will justify many things when they have put their own money into it.
I don’t remember much of the time, but my oldest spent a couple hundred dollars on a ship. So, I raised his rent two hundred dollars a month and he was asking what he was paying an extra two hundred a month. I told him he was paying for exactly what he got from the game for that amount, absolutely nothing.
He got pretty angry so every month I drew a stick figure guy and a ship on a piece of paper to make him feel better.
Then after two years and me putting that 200 in an account for him, he had most of his down payment for his first home. Taught him an actual lesson not to give your money to companies that you work hard for.
The moral of the story is you will always have morons that work hard for their money and spend it on goods with no value.
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AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
This Citizencon in October will be interesting for SQ42
I think we’ll have a release date, something like Q1 or Q2 2025
Even if they announce a release date do not trust it. They have never hit a date.
Buggy Loop
Member
All that effort for a story for the usual "it's a .jpg" ship? wow
That argument is tiring
143 flight ready/drivable. 77.7% delivered. Already outdated list as the Hornet MK2 is in. With mostly the old guard (2016 and under) ships being capital ships, which make no sense to deliver until server meshing to make it possible to have 40+ peoples aboard to run things
SC, right now, has tens of thousands of players enjoying the loop, bugs, jank and all, because in the end there's simply no other games like it in the space genre. Even Elite Dangerous players who came from a "finished" game *cough* moved en masse to SC. For something that has no value, it sure has a pull for players?
I know this makes a couple of usual SC thread visitors in this place seethe, but it is what it is, peoples are playing the game and coming back.
Next few months? Yeah right, wait where did I hear that before?
how often was 4.0 delayed since this 2016?
So you take a quote that literally happened before Crytek came in with the seamless loading tech and basically flipped the table.
You would have gotten an SQ42 with planets made of a texture, loading screen transition from space to spaceport, on-rail docking. AKA Starfield tech. And you would have gotten a "persistent" universe full of loadings and arena commander. Whoopdee doo. Let's seethe for eternity and enter every single SC threads to spew hate, never getting over it.
Don't you think I know?
Citizencon 2953 last year changed my perspectives though. This is not the same as before. They walked the talk. They came in with a shitload of tech that is functioning, not a powerpoint with a bullet list of hopes. They said "almost all you've seen today should be implemented in SC by a year or so", and 6 months in when 3.23 hit, we've got nearly half the features in, 3.24 which is being tested in PTU now with the personal hangars, freight elevators, cargo and 4.0 likely to close nearly all remaining points presented in Citizencon like Pyro, static server meshing, new quantum travel, MFDs, etc etc.
I don't care about the past really, pulling old quotes is especially laughable as if teams are fixed indefinitely in time, this is the team today. A shitload has happened since those years, from being a couple hundreds in early days to now over a thousand employees. Most importantly, including the buying of Montreal's Turbulent team and making Benoit Beausejour the CTO. That guy is amazing, I wish you could understand french because his interviews with Terada make it clear that the games are now in the right hands with someone that is not on some cloud of hopium. Things are moving since then at a rapid pace and with the montreal team being a huge turnover key for unlocking server meshing. Also since a lot of SQ42 tech made for it has been/being transferred massively into SC, it indicates the shift of the core tech team away from SQ42 and back into SC, after years of them being away from the MMO. Can't be a stronger signal that SQ42 is coming.
SQ42 2025. I'm willing to have an avatar bet on that.
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AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
As a golden ticket holder and Lifetime insurance holder.......I have been waiting for SQ42 and watched the games scope creep and creep and creep since the beginning. When I saw how successful the campaign was and how many things they promised because of it, I knew their development plan was unrealistic. But never in my life would I have thought it would be 84 years.
Buggy Loop
Member
For sure there was feature creep
For sure there was mismanagement
For sure there were unrealistic dates, even beyond 2015, even team members at CIG sometimes were shocked by the dates announced, this has been documented in interviews.
But I'm looking at the team that was at citizencon last year and what they are delivering now. Never have I been more confident that they're on track.
Will the release be tit for tat all of the features that crept in the early days if someone has kept a checklist of all features? Nope. Things have changed a lot since the backers day, including that there was no seamless world tech even available back then. As long as they deliver on a good game, I don't think anyone will cry that their bathroom towel doesn't have physics (or some #513 shit from feature creep that nobody cares).
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Is Sandy, Chris's wife sttill doing updates.
Buggy Loop
Member
Nope. I don't know when it stopped but I've started playing last fall and been looking at every videos out of CIG since then and I haven't seen her once.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I use to watch those weekly update shows.....I am glad I quit. They were just too much. They were fun early on.
The one show they did that I liked was the design a spaceship contest. The Weekly elimination show I found fun.
nemiroff
Gold Member
Nah. I'm not fond of that period and I'm glad it's over. And also Chris is basically nowhere to be seen in the updates, and I'm pretty sure it's a deliberate strategy. It's obvious that he has taken a few steps back here and there. The mood has shifted, with new people stepping in both at the back and on the front lines, bringing a lot of meaningful change with them.
To clarify, I've been an original backer since 2012 and had lost all interest in the chaos until 3.23. ..Now that things are moving along, different people involved, actual meaningful progress being done. That's why I started to care again.
Despite a lot of alpha shit to deal with (falling through elevator floors is always fun) I've had a lot of good times with .23. But I'd still not recommend people to jump in right now. But before the end of this year, I'd say it'll start to be pretty safe to get back into it.
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Sentenza
Gold Member
Given that he was accused of "trying to micro-manage too much and constantly meddle with the work of the developers" it's not hard to see why he made that decision.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Well at least Chris was able to move into his new mansion during this time.
Buggy Loop
Member
I'm trying to find a point in there but I'm not sure. Can't he?
The guy who lifted Origin systems over his shoulders and made big bucks with Wing commander? Then founded Digital anvil and was bought by Microsoft for god knows how much.
He bought a mansion?
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Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
I'm trying to find a point in there but I'm not sure. Can't he?
The guy who lifted Origin systems over his shoulders and made big bucks with Wing commander? Then founded Digital anvil and was bought by Microsoft for god knows how much.
He bought a mansion?
Enjoy
nemiroff
Gold Member
I'm trying to find a point in there but I'm not sure. Can't he?
The guy who lifted Origin systems over his shoulders and made big bucks with Wing commander? Then founded Digital anvil and was bought by Microsoft for god knows how much.
He bought a mansion?
Wait, people and companies can make money from selling stuff to people and companies? And they can even buy fancy things for the money they make??
Next thing someone is going to tell me that some people walking around on this planet aren't even perfect. But that's LOL
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TVexperto
Member
Yeah right, he founded it but did not release one single game under AnvilI'm trying to find a point in there but I'm not sure. Can't he?
The guy who lifted Origin systems over his shoulders and made big bucks with Wing commander? Then founded Digital anvil and was bought by Microsoft for god knows how much.
He bought a mansion?
- Inability to Deliver: Roberts' ambitious project, "Freelancer," was behind schedule and over budget, leading to Microsoft's intervention to ensure its completion. Microsoft reduced the game's scope to make it releasable (Wikipedia).
- Departure from Digital Anvil: As part of the acquisition deal, Roberts left the company shortly after, which was seen as a move by Microsoft to stabilize the development process. His departure was partially attributed to mismanagement and the inability to finish projects on time (Wikipedia).
Topher
Identifies as young
"Digital Anvil's first finished game was Starlancer, released to a generally favorable critical reception in 2000.[10] Developed jointly between Warthog and Digital Anvil, the game was produced by the Roberts brothers, and Eric Peterson. The company was acquired by Microsoft soon after, who sold two of Digital Anvil's projects, Conquest: Frontier Wars led by Eric Peterson, and Loose Cannon led by Tony Zurovec to Ubisoft. Roberts left the company after the acquisition, abandoning the director position of his ambitious project Freelancer, although he remained with the game in a consulting role for a while. The game was commonly regarded as vaporware due to its promised release date of 2001; however, it was eventually released in 2003 with a markedly different feature set than the initial plans."
That's from your wikipedia link.
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Buggy Loop
Member
As
Topher
said, you seem to have trouble reading wikis but otherwise, what does that have anything to do with my comment.Are you making the argument that Microsoft paid $0 for Digital Anvil?
Oh so we're going full tinfoil hat with SC_refund subreddit? The place that still takes the yacth meme as straight fact that he bought one rather than rent a sail boat?
Cute.
Wait, people and companies can make money from selling stuff to people and companies? And they can even buy fancy things for the money they make??
Next thing someone is going to tell me that some people walking around on this planet aren't even perfect. But that's LOL
I know right. Someone should probably make a conspiracy on me on how the fuck I afforded a house with my average engineer salary. How dare I, how can I buy a house and moved in while I was employed? Was it company theft?
We have peoples on this very forum with likely more assets than that mansion
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Been a while but this video was damn cool for a glimpse into 4.0 - Jump points / Pyro / Ship interfaces
There's missing VFX for the wormholes, their visual target is something like this :
Screenshots of the new cockpits
And 4.0 coming in the next few months, he iterates not by end of the year, next few months
I have to say it that although it is no way how I think software development of big projects should run, iterative development over continuous scope creep (borderline DaaS or Development as a Service), part of me (helped by the genuine passion of people like you) cannot but have a bit of hope they succeed in making an actual shipped, polished, full featured game.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
… and if scope creep does not stop or progresses negatively and they focus on stabilising first, polishing up, and then iterating this will continue or even get worse as that is the nature of growing software engineering projects. They do not age like fine wine, they get progressively harder to grow and evolve (and that is even the best architected and best run project so imagine for mortals).
I feel like there should be a separate "Star Citizen is never releasing" thread filled with 6 year old videos, so this thread can be about the actual updates as they come out.
Buggy Loop
Member
They aren't really spending that much time to polish this phase unless they find obvious bugs in their test servers that would make implementing them on live server useless, but also because there's a lot more coming up too. Spending time to fix this when the next patch feature can introduce again bugs from your polish fix is a never-ending cycle. I think they're speeding to 4.0 and then stabilize it, as it will also be the server meshing patch and last for a while until the first release 1.0.
Also a lot of in-between comments on a certain feature set that is non complete and players complain for change, but that's the thing, you got a piece of the puzzle without the rest of the pieces, we cannot judge. Master mode comes to mind, no point in balancing this out with 3.23 when armor and engineering will change the whole balance, but they have to at one point pick a piece and test it.
Like I said earlier, with the new CTO, I feel they're on the right track.
Dr. Wilkinson
Gold Member
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
I think it was earlier this year that they showed their engine and it blew my mind. It really seems to finally be coming together… I guess it could be smoke and mirrors still.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
We’ve all been asking this for 10 years
iHaunter
Member
Or, you know, you can get the $60 game package and stop crying about it. People spend thousands on macro transaction games like Fifa and no one cries about it 24/7 like they do Star Citizen.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
We’ve all been asking this for 10 years
Its actually been a bit longer then that.
I got my fix from No Man Sky and Starfield and I'm moving on lol
What they tried to make is interesting, but they are several generations behind that promise and I think many of us have just moved on to different games to fulfill a lot of this.
I'd rather see an actual real, legitimate developer release something like this as I have more trust in different teams to actually truly release this concept. This team has lost all trust to properly do this or even release a functional final thing.
TVexperto
Member
Even 6 years later the video is up to date and relevant lol, nothing changed, squadron 42 is not out, stanton is not finished, only 1 jump point, only 2 ships are "finished", quanta is not in the game, NPCs are still standing on chairs
the game is a fucking mess, 700 million dollars down the drain
Starbuck2907
Member
I don’t understand why it has “no value”. Does this apply to all video games or just Star Citizen? Does it apply to all entertainment products?
Star Citizen ships can be resold: https://star-hangar.com/. There are a few reseller sites for those ships. Ironically, these are gaming products that do hold some value. I don’t know much about all that though.
Sunken cost fallacy doesn’t make sense here. The product is actually being delivered, albeit, very slowly and the alpha can be played and gets updated regularly. Spending more money isn’t going to make it get here faster. Star Citizen concept sales work more like FOMO or limited time scarcity promotions where the chance to buy a concept ship with lifetime insurance is limited to a certain window of time.
— I’m bumping 50 years old, I have a family, a good job, etc, and I still play games. And, my dad still thinks they are dumb and that I spend my money on dumb stuff.
Now, more importantly, where can I buy these houses for $2,400 down?
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nemiroff
Gold Member
We got to understand some simple truths here: The barrier for individuals to carelessly throw out their one-liners against those who's into something they are not will always be much lower than the barrier to counter them.
And keep in mind:
You cannot reason people out of positions they didn’t reason themselves into.
It's not about being all positive or all negative of course. But I really believe those with a genuine interest possess greater experience and reasoning due to deeper familiarity and involvement, which also include the capacity to fairly critique (yes; I subscribe to https://www.youtube.com/@SaltEMike, these infamous critics are important to drive CIG forward). Clearly reasoning will not sway those who lack this engagement. It's ineffective now, and it will remain so while the goalposts are moved.
I'd suggest a dedicated general topic for discussions about how the business has been handled, and for other threads (like this one) to be kept clean - But how realistic is that
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Dr. Wilkinson
Gold Member
Sorry, but at this point, it’s it’s really just corporate fraud that hasn’t been charged yet. How anybody can still defend this game is completely ridiculous.
In 2016, I knew this was fraud. They’re funding the lifestyles of the people working on the game but primarily the husband and wife sitting at the top. and the reason the game is never gonna be finished is because they don’t want it to be finished . Because then they’d have to stop fundraising. At this point, it’s intentionally designed and planned to never actually be finished.
You’ll never get a “clean” thread just about the contents of the game, because the game is not clean. And it never will be.
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nemiroff
Gold Member
Yeah we're all hostages to a giant scam and we need you the brave hero to save us from the utter tragedy and doom of enjoying something you don't. We get it, you had your off-topic say yet again. So can you please leave us alone now?
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nemiroff
Gold Member
No worries, it's not smoke and mirrors. The good thing is that the graphics engine is the most tangible part of the project so-to-speak. Some of us are hands-on playing most of what you saw in that demonstration right now in 3.23 (except of course only the Stanton system is available in the alpha).
The "64 bit universe" (not only that, but how this is utilized for gameplay purposes as well, like f.ex. transferring between ships while QT) is what I enjoy the most about their engine. There's no loading screens, and when you travel between planets, it's actually travelling in real-time distance. I guess the impact and nuance of this "64 bit universe" is hard to understand unless you experience it for yourself, so I'll refrain from trying to explain it further.
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West Texas CEO
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
TVexperto
Member
Star Citizen is not the first nor the only game that has a 64 bit universe
Well, at the time of that video there were no explorable planets, and since then CIG added all 4 of Stanton's planets and their moons. 85% of the ships that had been announced at that point are now playable. The big holdup is the professions and the dynamic economy, which depend on server meshing supporting a multi system PU with thousands of active players, rather than the current limit of 100. If the point of the video was that we can't trust CIG because they lied in the past, then ok. But if Alpha 4.0 comes out with server meshing this year, as scheduled then I think this discussion will move to quanta, and then if quanta gets fully implemented, it will move to the number of systems (being promised 100). So I don't think it will ever end, irrespective of whether the game becomes progressively more fun or polished.
To me the main promise of the game is having an online universe filled with thousands of players performing specific roles (mining, cargo hauling, trading, bounty hunting etc.) that are engaging in their own right and also feed into the wider economy and ongoing conflicts. You can deliver that I think with a small number of systems, a dynamic economy and NPC A.I improvements. And at that point CIG can still be selling ships, can still be working on adding new star systems and can still be expanding the game's featureset. At that point, you essentially have an MMO that is fun to play, but with no planned end.
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TVexperto
Member
85 percen of ships are playable doesnt mean their finished, caterpillar still missing basic features like the elevators outside, no ship has working exploration modules, drones, the video is as relevant as ever, when was the last planet added? ah yeah 3 or 4 years ago
Buggy Loop
Member
But that video from 6 years ago with 29k view is the truth!
It includes a dude making the statement that the funding of 2012 changes scope because seamless world tech came much later, but AI voice said "lol fanboy", so case closed you see? Big brain arguments.
Just look at some of the replies in this thread, allusion that Chris Roberts has a Yacht and mansion paid off by stealing from funds. Brain rot. You think all this time they would avoid UK laws and 11 years later there would be no check? On top of believing that a photo of a dude on a rented sailboat for some weekend means he bought a fucking yacht? Must be easy as fuck to point out to authorities to what's going on since they have a big Sherlock Holmes brain.
It's ridiculous
I agree with
nemiroff
: Make your own fucking thread of circle jerking to sc_refunds conspiracies and GTFO of threads of us discussing the patches and upcoming features
ShadowNate
Member
I remember there was also a "things that CIG promised to do" wiki / tracker with sources and references to direct quotes. Is that thing still around?
