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[Raticus79]

The new Reverse the 'Verse has some comments about those rumours.

Transcript:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3md29h/notes_from_reverse_the_verse_episode_64/

- James and Alyssa have left CIG. For their privacy, CIG can't give any details about that. That wouldn't be fair to anyone involved, that's just how it works.
- They were very fond of them, had a great time with them while they were there, but SC marches on.
- No change at all to development. Community will work a bit more to make up for the holes they've left.
- There are some new job listings up. Jared will do the production on AtV, so expect it to get more Disco soon.
- This is something that happens. It's a shame, but it will all be okay
- Anyone using this as evidence of some kind of crusade, that's inappropriate. These are human beings, they should go off and have great careers, without having crazy people tainting them with rumours.

- Lisa Ohanian, unrelated to this, has put in her two weeks notice. She's going to a fantastic new job.
- It's a job she could not turn down. They'll figure out how to do ShipShape without her.
- It's always sad when people go, but people come, people go, and people follow their dreams.
- Lots of folks have come and gone over the past few years, Ben's proud of working with all of them, and the game continues.

- Sandi's been in and out this week. She's been really sick all week (hasn't been shouting, cause she's sick)

 

[Daedardus]

And when Derek Smart finally cashes his check, it will be $7,999,700

Spoiler

they have much more money than that, they are hiring like 30 new positions

You mean $22,999,950 for charges of defamation.

 

[Zabojnik]

Time to transfer our hype to No Man's Sky, Daedardus. SC had a good run.

 

[Danthrax]

Lisa Ohotian noooooo

You mean $22,999,950 for charges of defamation.

So that's the master plan! Goad Derek Smart into libeling CIG, then sue him for all dat Line of Defense money!

 

[Zalusithix]

Lisa Ohotian noooooo




So that's the master plan! Goad Derek Smart into libeling CIG, then sue him for all dat Line of Defense money!

I assume we're talking about Zimbabwean dollars here. I'm fairly certain that's the only way you'll get millions from DS.

 

[tuxfool]

So that's the master plan! Goad Derek Smart into libeling CIG, then sue him for all dat Line of Defense money!

Totally. That game is really popular it has amazing peaks of 3 concurrent users.

 

[bee]

So I got TAA working: i am still messing with the variables though and I am not completely sure which ones work in their version of cryengine as of yet. But here are the screenshots to show how it works. Here I am moving from right to left in the hangar (which has crazy white popping pixels and flickering in it). Taken @ 30fps with motionblur off:

The user.cfg file in my C:\Program Files\Cloud Imperium Games\StarCitizen\Public folder is as follows (though with motionblur on here):

r_VSync = 1
r_MotionBlur = 2
r_MotionBlurQuality = 2
r_MotionBlurMaxViewDist = 1000
r_MotionBlurShutterSpeed = 9
r_MotionBlurThreshold = 0.0001
r_AntialiasingMode = 2
r_AntialiasingTAAFalloffHiFreq = 16
r_AntialiasingTAAFalloffLowFreq = 16
r_AntialiasingTAAMode = 4
r_AntialiasingTAASharpening = 0
r_ShadowBlur = 3

The fall off is set to be really high as you can tell, but that can easily be adjusted (default in CE for TAA is high @ 6 and low @ 2.. not 16 for both). That would most likely increase the amout of softness rather heavily hence the stark difference you see in the pictures. I have yet to play with them to see how and what works_ low frequency though should definitely not be so high... this was mainly to test.

As of now though... it is working and it definitely helps flickering in motion.

nice! really helps and is pretty much all that's needed at 4k, definitely makes the image softer though but hopefully you can tweak that, has the added bonus of making the framerate even more cinematic at 4k!

 

[Daedardus]

Time to transfer our hype to No Man's Sky, Daedardus. SC had a good run.

No Man's Sky is not the place we're looking for. I can't even change directions, my HypeR-Drive is programmed for destination Star Citizen.

 

[mercenar1e]

- Lisa Ohanian, unrelated to this, has put in her two weeks notice. She's going to a fantastic new job.

Derek Smart said so but thanks for the confirmation.

Spoiler

i just got a few people mad now lol

 

[viveks86]

I love GAF reactions anytime we hear someone prominent left from <insert game company here>

On that topic, I'm gonna miss Lisa. Ship Shape will never be the same :'(

 

[Xplatformer]

I hate this attitude. It just completely breaks the idea of crowdfunding.

Agreed.

 

[Xplatformer]

No Man's Sky is not the place we're looking for. I can't even change directions, my HypeR-Drive is programmed for destination Star Citizen.

This.

No Man Sky, Elite...Eve...

None are on the path i'm hoping SC is headed. They just aren't.

 

[Danthrax]

Totally. That game is really popular it has amazing peaks of 3 concurrent users.

Maybe those three users are whales? Haha

 

[Zabojnik]

CitizenCon can't come soon-er enough-er.

 

[phoenixyz]

Btw, is Sandi actually CR's wife?

 

[viveks86]

I hate this attitude. It just completely breaks the idea of crowdfunding.

No it doesn't. People who aren't comfortable with their investment should have every right to pull out. The whole point of crowdfunding is so that individuals backing out are not statistically significant enough to jeopardize anything.

 

[staticneuron]

No it doesn't. People who aren't comfortable with their investment should have every right to pull out. The whole point of crowdfunding is so that individuals backing out are not statistically significant enough to jeopardize anything.

No the point is to fund something you believe in and have faith it will be completed to your liking. if you wanted to wait on the fences don't bother pledging in the first place.

 

[Raticus79]

Btw, is Sandi actually CR's wife?

I haven't been able to find anything to support that. I tried to dig back into the sources people refer to and it just becomes a mess of circular references to other rumours.

 

[Zabojnik]

She is not Chris Roberts' wife.

 

[viveks86]

No the point is to fund something you believe in and have faith it will be completed to your liking. if you wanted to wait on the fences don't bother pledging in the first place.

And if you lost that belief or faith over time due to numerous reasons, you should still be stuck with it because...?

Let people decide what is best for them. CIG is giving refunds because they think it's the right thing to do and people who have gone on the fence (or completely lost faith) are availing it. It's a transaction that involves those 2 parties and those 2 parties alone. This righteous indignation I see often in crowdfunding projects is unwarranted.

 

[phoenixyz]

Next time I buy a stock and it falls 50% I am totally gonna demand a full refund from my bank because "I lost faith in the product".

 

[viveks86]

Next time I buy a stock and it falls 50% I am totally gonna demand a full refund from my bank because "I lost faith in the product".

Haha. If your bank assured you that, by all means, go for it. If they didn't, then you cray cray.

 

[Pafnucy]

What if everybody requested refunds? They can't give all the money back, because they used part of it already, so what then?

 

[tuxfool]

No the point is to fund something you believe in and have faith it will be completed to your liking. if you wanted to wait on the fences don't bother pledging in the first place.

This. Because funding then asking for refunds is something that wastes people's time and money.

 

[epmode]

I hate this attitude. It just completely breaks the idea of crowdfunding.

I'm with you on this. I've backed some projects that went south too. It's just the nature of crowdfunding.

 

[CyberPunked]

No it doesn't. People who aren't comfortable with their investment should have every right to pull out. The whole point of crowdfunding is so that individuals backing out are not statistically significant enough to jeopardize anything.

But removing funding for a game that's in active development will jeopardize development of the given game...

 

[viveks86]

But removing funding for a game that's in active development will jeopardize development of the given game...

If everyone removed funding, sure. But if everyone did it, there probably is a pretty good reason for it. Crowdfunding, by its very nature mitigates such risk, because everyone wouldn't do it unless there is something fundamentally wrong with the development. So nothing is getting jeopardized as long as CIG continues delivering, which I personally think they are. The few people who don't agree are free to ask for their money back.

And yeah, I'm aware this isn't popular opinion, especially amongst backers passionate about the projects they want to see succeed. I want to see CIG succeed too, but I don't think any of us have the right to call out those who are doing what is well within consumer rights for a consumer funded project.

 

[phoenixyz]

Haha. If your bank assured you that, by all means, go for it. If they didn't, then you cray cray.

Never has anyone called me cray cray before! This is an outrage! Take it back!

 

[viveks86]

Never has anyone called me cray cray before! This is an outrage! Take it back!

What if everybody requested refunds? They can't give all the money back, because they used part of it already, so what then?

Then the project sinks. The company crumbles and files for bankruptcy as Schryver mentioned below. It's exactly what will happen to any failed project in any field. There is no need to save a project that nobody believes in. The backers that didn't get their money back will either get some form of redressal from the bankruptcy filing or they swallow the loss and move on.

 

[Schryver]

What if everybody requested refunds? They can't give all the money back, because they used part of it already, so what then?

I think that's about the time companies file for bankruptcy

 

[Raticus79]

Oh, speaking of The Escapist:

"Eject! Eject! Is Star Citizen Going to Crash and Burn?"
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...r-Citizen-Controversy-Reaches-a-Boiling-Point

Director of Communications comments on studio closure rumour.
Head count is expected to increase, not decrease.

Otherwise rehashes DS's material.

Edit: same statement via Polygon minus the clickbait:
"Star Citizen is reorganizing its teams, not conducting layoffs"
http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/25/93...reorganizing-its-teams-not-conducting-layoffs

----------

Endeavor launch is Tuesday:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/286424/endeavor-update-launches-tuesday

 

[CyberPunked]

If everyone removed funding, sure. But if everyone did it, there probably is a pretty good reason for it. Crowdfunding, by its very nature mitigates such risk, because everyone wouldn't do it unless there is something fundamentally wrong with the development. So nothing is getting jeopardized as long as CIG continues delivering, which I personally think they are. The few people who don't agree are free to ask for their money back.

And yeah, I'm aware this isn't popular opinion, especially amongst backers passionate about the projects they want to see succeed. I want to see CIG succeed too, but I don't think any of us have the right to call out those who are doing what is well within consumer rights for a consumer funded project.

Well thankfully CIG are under no obligation to give refunds, so if they were in actual trouble they could just say "no"

 

[viveks86]

Well thankfully CIG are under no obligation to give refunds, so if they were in actual trouble they could just say "no"

We can agree on that!

 

[Effect]

No the point is to fund something you believe in and have faith it will be completed to your liking. if you wanted to wait on the fences don't bother pledging in the first place.

As said what if the person loses faith and no longer believes what was promised will still happen or happen in a timely manner?

Next time I buy a stock and it falls 50% I am totally gonna demand a full refund from my bank because "I lost faith in the product".

You'd be well within your right to sell of the rest of your shares to stop yourself from taking further loses, get out of that situation and then put your money elsewhere. You don't have to stay in the situation you are in and hope it gets better. That's an option to you when it comes to stocks due to the nature of how they work. The option to me was to ask for a refund (ideally full or I could have gotten just part of it) to get out of my situation. They could have denied of course then I would have seen if I had other options. Staying silent and hoping things get better does nothing for me personally. What's best for me is what is important.

I think it's fair to ask for your money back if you don't feel what is being offered and delivered is up to what you expected or feel was promised. People always think that should be different when it comes to games and I don't. Money was put forward to have access to these things. Asking for that back causes you to lose access to these things. Seems like a fair trade to me. There are so many others that feel their money was well spent my little won't be missed. Especially when someone decides they want to drop another $200 on a digital ship they may or may not be able to interact with for months to come. So if one is worried about the game losing money don't. Unless people en mass started wanting refunds and if that happens then something big went down or was learned.

I don't think my rights and expectations as a customer go out the window simply because I'm dealing with crowdfunding or gaming in general. That's something people should think about. This isn't a charity I'm giving money to with the expectation I'm never getting that money back or getting anything personally in return. I expect that money at least to be put to good use. CIG is a business and Star Citizen is a product first and foremost in the making they're selling access to as they make it.

 

[Dictator93]

Oh, speaking of The Escapist:

"Eject! Eject! Is Star Citizen Going to Crash and Burn?"

That fucking title. Imagine any other branch of journalism that is not The SUN or Fox News running that. "FUCK THE POPE FUCK THE POPE: Is the pope in the USA?!" -BBC

nice! really helps and is pretty much all that's needed at 4k, definitely makes the image softer though but hopefully you can tweak that, has the added bonus of making the framerate even more cinematic at 4k!

Of course!
I have yet at all to tweak it, but it should with properfine tuning be sharper but with similar amounts of temporal stability. I will try out some stuff some time soon enough.

Then again... as soon as they release the newest version of the game... it will probably have a different TAA avalable via ini or otherwise.

 

[SnowTeeth]

Derek Smart said so but thanks for the confirmation.

Spoiler

i just got a few people mad now lol

I'm not mad, I'm just baffled that people are still listening to that hypocrite. When will we all learn dammit!?

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

I think it's fair to ask for your money back if you don't feel what is being offered and delivered is up to what you expected or feel was promised. People always think that should be different when it comes to games and I don't. Money was put forward to have access to these things. Asking for that back causes you to lose access to these things. Seems like a fair trade to me. There are so many others that feel their money was well spent my little won't be missed. Especially when someone decides they want to drop another $200 on a digital ship they may or may not be able to interact with for months to come. So if one is worried about the game losing money don't. Unless people en mass started wanting refunds and if that happens then something big went down or was learned.

I don't think my rights and expectations as a customer go out the window simply because I'm dealing with crowdfunding or gaming in general. That's something people should think about. This isn't a charity I'm giving money to with the expectation I'm never getting that money back or getting anything personally in return. I expect that money at least to be put to good use. CIG is a business and Star Citizen is a product first and foremost in the making they're selling access to as they make it.

Agree completely. Especially for something that started on kickstarter, trust is a vital part of the transaction. If what they deliver with is not what was pitched, then there should be accountability on the part of people getting money.

 

[epmode]

Agree completely. Especially for something that started on kickstarter, trust is a vital part of the transaction. If what they deliver with is not what was pitched, then there should be accountability on the part of people getting money.

The're held accountable the next time they go to the crowdfunding well. See: Red Ash

 

[Raticus79]

Crossposting performance stats from a spot in Arc Corp that Dictator93 had asked for:

1080: http://i.imgur.com/5czGBR0.png (CPU limited)
1440: http://i.imgur.com/kfnALKC.png (CPU limited)
2160: http://i.imgur.com/lbUgh7i.png (GPU limited)

Dictator93's 1080: http://abload.de/img/starcitizen_2015_09_1k6k1w.png

This is with a 2600k, old z68 motherboard, and two Titan X cards. Really feeling the pain of trying to hold out for Skylake-E right now.

 

[tuxfool]

I'm not mad, I'm just baffled that people are still listening to that hypocrite. When will we all learn dammit!?

The only people that listen to him are already inclined to a certain point of view.

 

[Dictator93]

Crossposting performance stats from a spot in Arc Corp that Dictator93 had asked for:

1080: http://i.imgur.com/5czGBR0.png (CPU limited)
1440: http://i.imgur.com/kfnALKC.png (CPU limited)
2160: http://i.imgur.com/lbUgh7i.png (GPU limited)

Dictator93's 1080: http://abload.de/img/starcitizen_2015_09_1k6k1w.png

Really feeling the pain of trying to hold out for Skylake-E right now.

Thx for the cross post.
holy hell. Is there ANY cpu which can run that at 60 on very high?

This game needs dx12.. asap!

edit: your 4k results seem to be scaling strangiely inspite of SLI working. I would gess the SLI overhead is adding more pressure on the CPU burden and lowering it more than it should.

 

[Raticus79]

Thx for the cross post.
holy hell. Is there ANY cpu which can run that at 60 on very high?

This game needs dx12.. asap!

Well tuned 5930k or 5960x could handle it, maybe? My old z68 motherboard isn't helping things.

Apparently everyone's having trouble with over 8 players in battle royale though, no matter what the config is. Could be some bad threading or netcode issues there.

edit: your 4k results seem to be scaling strangiely inspite of SLI working. I would gess the SLI overhead is adding more pressure on the CPU burden and lowering it more than it should.

Yeah, I wish there was a way to get PCI-E performance statistics. I think that might be the problem there. (8 v2.0 lanes each)

 

[tuxfool]

Thx for the cross post.
holy hell. Is there ANY cpu which can run that at 60 on very high?

This game needs dx12.. asap!

edit: your 4k results seem to be scaling strangiely inspite of SLI working. I would gess the SLI overhead is adding more pressure on the CPU burden and lowering it more than it should.

I don't know what that game is currently doing that requires all that CPU. Too many drawcalls? Network code?

Probably a combination of both. One has to remember that the game still doesn't have any LODs.

 

[Dictator93]

Yeah, I wish there was a way to get PCI-E performance statistics. I think that might be the problem there. (8 v2.0 lanes each)

Did not even consider that. That could be it as well...

I don't know what that game is currently doing that requires all that CPU. Too many drawcalls? Network code?

I think draw calls really: it is something CIG keeps talking about being their limiting factor. The social module does not have the mesh merging in it the current live release.. so every tiny part of the modular strucutres are using draw calls on top of all the material draw calls and shadow calls.

This and the fact that Very High has pretty high draw distance for a lot of the small details which would also increase draw calls.

 

[viveks86]

That fucking title. Imagine any other branch of journalism that is not The SUN or Fox News running that. "FUCK THE POPE FUCK THE POPE: Is the pope in the USA?!" -BBC

Yeah it's really stooping to tabloid levels. The kind of bad press this game gets continues to surprise me. At least it's pretty entertaining.

 

[tuxfool]

Yeah it's really stopping to tabloid levels. The kind of bad press this game gets continues to surprise me. At least it's pretty entertaining.

That fucking title. Imagine any other branch of journalism that is not The SUN or Fox News running that. "FUCK THE POPE FUCK THE POPE: Is the pope in the USA?!" -BBC

I wouldn't worry about it. The Escapist is a turd of a site these days.

 

[staticneuron]

If everyone removed funding, sure. But if everyone did it, there probably is a pretty good reason for it. Crowdfunding, by its very nature mitigates such risk, because everyone wouldn't do it unless there is something fundamentally wrong with the development. So nothing is getting jeopardized as long as CIG continues delivering, which I personally think they are. The few people who don't agree are free to ask for their money back.

And yeah, I'm aware this isn't popular opinion, especially amongst backers passionate about the projects they want to see succeed. I want to see CIG succeed too, but I don't think any of us have the right to call out those who are doing what is well within consumer rights for a consumer funded project.

The reason why that is flawed is simply because it breaks the idea they are working on a fixed budget. If this is the risk that they run, then it actually goes against the concept of crowd funding the entire game and they could have just used a fraction to show interest and then pitch the project to larger companies to complete.

This concept of an undetermined few means the budget is not set and they would have to set apart a specific amount for refunds and if this goes over then it risk the project to fail.

The thing about consumer rights is that it normally refers to a finished product or a service. A pledge how ever is different and is more like a commitment or promise. And to be perfectly honest to judge the product before it is completed is the worst it can be. To see actual progress and then worry about the timeline (especially with the excuse that maybe later you will buy in) is the very concern that should be decided upon before pledge. If you do not have faith, don't bother pledging because the crappy devs that do this actually take the money and run (so you can't get a refund) and this practice hurts those that are trying to make a product and now have to work it into the system for refunds and to assume that their budget isn't really their budget.

Buyers remorse is just another name for some people poor decision making and issues with commitment. I have been confident in nearly every thing I purchased and even in the few that turned out to be a disappointment I wouldn't even consider them a waste because they are an anomaly. In a crowd funded project the last thing another person who pledges wants to worry about is the project being jeopardized not by the company directly but on the flimsy whims of those who probably shouldn't have pledged in the first place.

 

[Zabojnik]

Star Marine Update

 

[Xplatformer]

And if you lost that belief or faith over time due to numerous reasons, you should still be stuck with it because...?

Let people decide what is best for them. CIG is giving refunds because they think it's the right thing to do and people who have gone on the fence (or completely lost faith) are availing it. It's a transaction that involves those 2 parties and those 2 parties alone. This righteous indignation I see often in crowdfunding projects is unwarranted.

Wait. Was your pledge a donation, or an investment. I viewed mine as a donation. It sits wrong with me if a person donates something, then ask for it back.

 

[Geist-]

Star Marine Update

Wow, that ladder animation is smooth. Could we possibly see the end of the long prebaked entry animations soon?

Also, I was never a big fan of the helmet blocking view mechanic, but those new helmet huds look great.