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Star Ocean = teh suck?
- Thread starter Eggo
- Start date
The ToS story certainly had its dull moments, but for that matter, SO3 was horribly tedious for the first 2 hours. So dullness isn't exclusive to ToS! That said, I'd rather play a game that, you know, can be played as intended, that stumble my way through glitches and errors.
To each their own, I suppose. As always.
To each their own, I suppose. As always.
True. I personally play rpgs for the plot and characters though. If the story isn't interesting, the repetitive battles become a chore. And while the first 2 hours of SO3 won't blow you away, you can see it's going somewhere. ToS plot = meh. I do like the characters quite a bit though...
Hmm, the whole SO3 vs. ToS dull thing is like watching a twilight zone ep.
SO3 was the dullest rpg I've played this entire generation, if not ever. The cutscenes were long, the story dragged and was full of paper thin characters, and the entire cast were lifeless duds.
I liked the music, the towns, and some of the ideas that went into the battle system. But the story and characters were what really killed the game for me (besides the worst AI imaginable). I mean story-wise SO3 is like SO2 (horrible) but with cutscenes 2nd in length only to XS. I don't see how people are finding that more interesting than ToS with it's likeable quirky cast and relatively short cutscenes/gameplay ratio.
SO3 was the dullest rpg I've played this entire generation, if not ever. The cutscenes were long, the story dragged and was full of paper thin characters, and the entire cast were lifeless duds.
I liked the music, the towns, and some of the ideas that went into the battle system. But the story and characters were what really killed the game for me (besides the worst AI imaginable). I mean story-wise SO3 is like SO2 (horrible) but with cutscenes 2nd in length only to XS. I don't see how people are finding that more interesting than ToS with it's likeable quirky cast and relatively short cutscenes/gameplay ratio.
Cloudy said:True. I personally play rpgs for the plot and characters though. If the story isn't interesting, the repetitive battles become a chore. And while the first 2 hours of SO3 won't blow you away, you can see it's going somewhere. ToS plot = meh. I do like the characters quite a bit though...
Ahh, that explains much. I play rpgs for the gameplay, not the stories or characters.
I'm with Bebpo on this one, and I guess you too, to a certain degree. I pretty much like the ToS characters. Generic, yes, but well developed, and well realized (especially if you did all the skits.) And I think I mentioned in another thread about how SO3 was reminding me of XenoSaga (not in a good way, as no such way exists, and not because of the sci-fi opening.)
Drinky Crow
Banned
ToS had a "likeable quirky cast"? I thought they were pretty much scraping the scum at the bottom of the anime cliche barrel. SO3 isn't exactly leaps above it -- Sophia's presence is downright hateful -- but any improvement in that area's appreciated.
Drinky Crow said:
Well I thought the later half of the cast (Zelos, Presia, Regal) were all great characters. I mean even if you hate anime characters, you have to admit that if you did all the 1000+ skits, the characters get tons of development. Seeing how they play off each other in normal everyday situations and not just 'save the world' situations really makes them a lot more interesting IMO. They made me smile (lots of Zelos, and stuff like Klonoa Presia) and that way I actually gave a crap about what was happening to them (I even got both endings because I felt bad with a choice I had made in my first ending). In SO3 I could never care about any of the characters, sadly
Drinky Crow
Banned
I played maybe 20 skits, total. Bad, tedious, talking head development isn't how I want to spend my time, especially with characters as sub-interesting as the ToS cast. Good thing the battle system kicked all kinds of ass, although the mid-game was a helluva slow-ass slog.
So far, I'm enjoying SO3, but, like ToS, my enjoyment is riddled with caveats. SO3 has nice dungeon design -- especially when compared with the dreck that was SO2 -- and the fights are pretty, even though they fall far below ToS in actual execution. SO3, though, unlike ToS, has some semblence of a plot, and more diversity in its locales, which keeps things moving at a passable clip. Neither game really moves the genre along, though, and are strictly diversionary fodder to pass the time until REAL RPGs like Nocturne roll into town.
So far, I'm enjoying SO3, but, like ToS, my enjoyment is riddled with caveats. SO3 has nice dungeon design -- especially when compared with the dreck that was SO2 -- and the fights are pretty, even though they fall far below ToS in actual execution. SO3, though, unlike ToS, has some semblence of a plot, and more diversity in its locales, which keeps things moving at a passable clip. Neither game really moves the genre along, though, and are strictly diversionary fodder to pass the time until REAL RPGs like Nocturne roll into town.
Bebpo said:Well I thought the later half of the cast (Zelos, Presia, Regal) were all great characters. I mean even if you hate anime characters, you have to admit that if you did all the 1000+ skits, the characters get tons of development. Seeing how they play off each other in normal everyday situations and not just 'save the world' situations really makes them a lot more interesting IMO. They made me smile (lots of Zelos, and stuff like Klonoa Presia) and that way I actually gave a crap about what was happening to them (I even got both endings because I felt bad with a choice I had made in my first ending). In SO3 I could never care about any of the characters, sadly
This man continues to speak truth. I really was the "real world" conversations that saved them. Also, I liked how some of the main characters constantly questioned themselves, their plans, their decisions, and ultimately, the consequences of their choices. All of that nicely interspersed with just about every kind of very day conversation you can imagine, from personally important and dramatic to the inane and hysterical.
Drinky Crow
Banned
DURF THE MALE CHARACTERS PISSED OFF THE FEMALE CHARACTERS HURF HUR ANIME IS FUNNY
i'm glad to see some people here recognize that SO3's battles are broken. I AM NOT CRAZY
i was feeling rather alone. well, except for the rest of the ZD reviewers.
this is one of those games that stands out as worse in my mind than it actually is. rereading these posts reminds me that i liked the characters and was interested in the story .. but all i can think about is the boring-ass game itself. same problem with suikoden III. in retrospect they both seem like shit even though they're actually decent, just significantly flawed.
i was feeling rather alone. well, except for the rest of the ZD reviewers.
this is one of those games that stands out as worse in my mind than it actually is. rereading these posts reminds me that i liked the characters and was interested in the story .. but all i can think about is the boring-ass game itself. same problem with suikoden III. in retrospect they both seem like shit even though they're actually decent, just significantly flawed.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Nah, Suikoden 3 is still shit. Cutscenes separated by hallways populated with the same damn monsters/bosses ad nauseum doesn't exactly make for a stellar RPG experience.
ferricide said:
Damn straight. I've got melee fighters who sit in the corner and jerk off for half the fight, doing absolutely nothing, then change their minds and start side-stepping from one part of the stage to another, avoiding both enemies and other party members, and then change their mind in the next fight, and expend all of their HPs, or, worse yet, their MPs blitzing enemies with magic and skills that are totally unnecessary. And I absolutely love how, if I have ANY spells "turned on" for a melee fighter, he'll take a couple of whacks at an enemy with his weapon at uber-close range, and think he'll somehow manage to get off a spell or four without getting interrupted by a counterattack. Why 4, you ask? Because he freakin' tries to cast the spell again and again, always getting hit and interrupted. GENIUS! Switching from the very few AI "tactics" does little to change the bigger problems here, unfortunately. So half the time instead of having fun playing as one of the melee characters, I have to take on the role of my mage/healer. And camping in the back, planting heal and firebolt spells is NOT fun. Especially when, just as my multiple firebolts are traveling seeking targets, one of the melee fighters decides he DOES want to participate, and instead of setting up a nice combo, he'll knock an enemy down in one hit, making them totally invulnerable to the now wasted spell.
well certainly SO3 is a whole level beyond suikoden III in terms of actual game making. suikoden III is like a 4/10 game with a 9/10 story, or so i feel. SO3 is a 6/10 game with an 8/10 story. more homogenous. =) the point is, when i reflect i tend to forget the good points of both games in my frustration with their flaws. on the other hand, with TOS i tend to forget its flaws when i reflect, though they are numerous and obvious, because i just enjoyed it so much overall.Drinky Crow said:
i'm beginning to think a lot of the flaws in the SO3 battle system could've been designed out fairly simply. for example, both the fury and the MP death seem to be designed to keep you from spamming out special moves. seems to me that they could've just had you become dazed if you abused the system, so you'd be fucked but wouldn't die. fury isn't so bad, but the MP death is teh gay.
also, the fact that you can't hit enemies while they're down (WHY GOD WHY) could be easily cheesed off like in TOS, where you do a fraction of the damage to enemies on the ground. it makes no sense in TOS, but since you don't break your momentum, it's easy to put up with.
and the bonus battle guage is really offensive. playtime extending bollocks. like this game needs its playtime padded.
I still think it's funny that Mej's first complaint about SO3 involves the AI. GUESS WHAT?! ToS's AI is total shit too. The ONLY command they EVER listen to is "do nothing". Conserve TP? F*ck no, they're going to go all out. Use distance magic? HA, I tink they prefer melee...wait...yep, they do. I've had way more issues with the AI in ToS, so far, to say the least.
Of course, I can't disagree that ToS is much more refined (though, really, it is very dated in the fact that it made no major strides over the prequels). SO3 is kinda f*cked in a lot of ways, but I gotta admit that I'm just having fun with it for some reason. What can I say, I'm having a good time with a broken game. I'm compelled to finish SO3, whereas I know ToS will join games like Wild Arms 3, Suikoden III and Legaia 2 on "the stack of RPGs that I will never finish". It's better than each of those, but just as dull (if not moreso).
Of course, I can't disagree that ToS is much more refined (though, really, it is very dated in the fact that it made no major strides over the prequels). SO3 is kinda f*cked in a lot of ways, but I gotta admit that I'm just having fun with it for some reason. What can I say, I'm having a good time with a broken game. I'm compelled to finish SO3, whereas I know ToS will join games like Wild Arms 3, Suikoden III and Legaia 2 on "the stack of RPGs that I will never finish". It's better than each of those, but just as dull (if not moreso).
dark10x said:
Errr, dark10x I know everyone has there own opinions but seriously if you think ToS had bad AI then it was probably your fault and not the game.
ToS has the best team-based AI I've ever seen in a real-time rpg. The difference is that the game lets you MAKE YOUR TEAMMATES AI out of a wide range of variables. If you set 3 or 4 good AI patterns to the d-pad you can have a totally unstoppable team. I think the Tales series has been striving each game to improve their AI rhythms and it really shows with ToS. I'm hoping ToR follows suit.
Bebpo said:
What the hell am I doing wrong, though? There's only so many options available. It isn't like the game is hard, so I'm not having problems...but why do they always do things I tell them not to do? That doesn't even make sense. I don't recall having these problems with earlier games in the series either, which is why I was annoyed by it (and suprised). I don't understand what I could be doing wrong when I am selecting exactly what I want them to do (only they won't always listen).
Jupiter Jones
Member
I have to agree that TOS had great AI. My healers always healed promptly. I had Raine and other spell casters set to keep their distance from the enemy and they obeyed as much as it was possible. Zelos/Kratos always had a well balanced attack mostly/heal when needed thing going on. Star Ocean 3 isn't as good, but I haven't had too many problems. Sometimes the other characters will just stand around doing nothing until I go attack a monster first, but doesn't happen often.
I've noticed some pretty unsettling quirks in the 10 hours of time with the game AI myself.
Seldomly Fayt and Cliff will suddenly decide to just cower in a corner avoiding enemies as much as possible. It's one of those "I wish I could record this" moments, but basically the AI will be set to 'cowardly run back and forth rubbing against the wall, pissing the ever-living shit out of me!'. It's gotta be a glitch, but it's happened at least 3 times by my count, and will continue from battle to battle until I manually switch over to them and resink their AI options and fiddle with Auto/Manual control until they once again wisen up.
Game has crashed to the Black screen o' death twice...
Fayt has all these cool battle abilities set up with his sword, and yet ALL he ever does is spam Lightning spells until his MP hits danger zones...
But yes, I'd still rather be playing this than ToS. Flaws and all, the game has strangely enough burried it's hooks in me.
Seldomly Fayt and Cliff will suddenly decide to just cower in a corner avoiding enemies as much as possible. It's one of those "I wish I could record this" moments, but basically the AI will be set to 'cowardly run back and forth rubbing against the wall, pissing the ever-living shit out of me!'. It's gotta be a glitch, but it's happened at least 3 times by my count, and will continue from battle to battle until I manually switch over to them and resink their AI options and fiddle with Auto/Manual control until they once again wisen up.
Game has crashed to the Black screen o' death twice...
Fayt has all these cool battle abilities set up with his sword, and yet ALL he ever does is spam Lightning spells until his MP hits danger zones...
But yes, I'd still rather be playing this than ToS. Flaws and all, the game has strangely enough burried it's hooks in me.
SolidSnakex
Member
That's why you should only use Fayt. I've put in 17hours with the game so far, and Fayt is the only character i've fought with. The other chararcters might be better, but he seems to do everything I need to get through the battles. Nel and Cliff seem to be working pretty well (I finnaly managed to get a 42 hit combo with them) mainly because of Nels ice attacks.
I haven't really had too many problems with the battle system though. The AI could be smarter, but I don't think it's bad enough to cause the game to stop being any fun.
I've put in 17hours with the game so far, and Fayt is the only character i've fought with. The other chararcters might be better, but he seems to do everything I need to get through the battles. Nel and Cliff seem to be working pretty well (I finnaly managed to get a 42 hit combo with them) mainly because of Nels ice attacks.I haven't really had too many problems with the battle system though. The AI could be smarter, but I don't think it's bad enough to cause the game to stop being any fun.
I actually probably could switch back. I'm level 20 or so and aside from Fayt's spell spamming, I haven't really had much of a problem with HP/MP death for a LONG while. When you have nearly 1700 HP, abusing a 20-40 HP attack is not really that critical an issue like it was early on.
Hmm, is it possible that someone can enjoy BOTH TOS and SO3? So far, I prefer SO3's storyline to TOS's, it's a bit more subtle, and although nothing spectacular, it beats the predictability and corniness of TOS's. But, on the same time, TOS's battle system seems smoother, the enemies are a lot easier to hit, it's easier to pull off combos. I'm getting used to the SO3 battle system, but I don't like it as much as 2's, so far... The towns in SO3 are much better, they actually feel like real cities than a collection of 2 residences, a weapon shop, an item shop, and an inn. The dungeons, I like the length (and especially the automap) of SO3's, but I kinda wish there were more puzzles... I like the puzzles in some of the TOS dungeons (with the exception of some of the more annoying ones... Shadow Temple).
America is still blessed to have 2 great RPGs come out within a month of each other, after years of drought, so everyone stop whining. If we were back in the mid 1990's, NEITHER game would have come out.
America is still blessed to have 2 great RPGs come out within a month of each other, after years of drought, so everyone stop whining. If we were back in the mid 1990's, NEITHER game would have come out.
Alex
Member
My interest in SO3 is practicly nil, I'm not picking it up until the 20~ish dollar range. Although by then, I doubt I'll even care anymore.
That said, Symphonia's AI sucked. It may be better than Star Ocean 3, or some of the other very few examples of real-time team RPG's. But it is still severely lacking. I love what they try to acomplish by letting you really dig into your own patterns, but most of the time, it simply doesn't work (for me at least).
The customization is nice, but it does not go nearly far enough. Setting Raine to Heal, she still has trouble aiming at those who need it, and basicly just sits on her ass during downtime. On support, which SHOULD include a mixture of stat-buffs and healing, if you wait around for her to cure anyone, they're going to die, period .
On top of that, despite in-depth commands, there's a fair few breaks just within the combat basics.
~The Melee's tendancy to be douche bags. Getting punched in the mouth, missing their part of the combo/unison. AI doesn't seem to notice the dodge/evade moves very often.
~Mages tendancy to run out of TP and rush to death on anything above easy mode. Although you can program Genis to stand still and do nothing instead...yay!?
On top of it, it's really obnoxious to eliminate your ability entirely to play as mages, and basicly keyhole you, in my experience to basicly just using Lloyd.
Fixing these issues, fixing playable mage targeting, along with adding more shortcuts would go a long way. I'm sick of babysitting and being an apolgist for Tales AI flaws.
I also wish they'd cut down on the combo focus a bit, or at least add it along with a bunch of other play styles into a reward system.
Symphonia had great polish, a great localization, more interesting dungeons. But at the same time compared to Eternia had less interesting side content, poor subsystems, terrible characters and a story which started off cute and dumb, and sunk to pure stupidity halfway through, with needless, although utterly predictable plot twists and miserable pacing which made me hate the game world. The pacing and presentation from that point on almost made me just drop the game and quit like I did with WA3.
I had a lot of fun with Symphonia, and I love Tales, it's just a personal thing I guess, but I always come away with plenty to bitch about, Symphonia way moreso than Destiny II/Eternia.
That said, Symphonia's AI sucked. It may be better than Star Ocean 3, or some of the other very few examples of real-time team RPG's. But it is still severely lacking. I love what they try to acomplish by letting you really dig into your own patterns, but most of the time, it simply doesn't work (for me at least).
The customization is nice, but it does not go nearly far enough. Setting Raine to Heal, she still has trouble aiming at those who need it, and basicly just sits on her ass during downtime. On support, which SHOULD include a mixture of stat-buffs and healing, if you wait around for her to cure anyone, they're going to die, period .
On top of that, despite in-depth commands, there's a fair few breaks just within the combat basics.
~The Melee's tendancy to be douche bags. Getting punched in the mouth, missing their part of the combo/unison. AI doesn't seem to notice the dodge/evade moves very often.
~Mages tendancy to run out of TP and rush to death on anything above easy mode. Although you can program Genis to stand still and do nothing instead...yay!?
On top of it, it's really obnoxious to eliminate your ability entirely to play as mages, and basicly keyhole you, in my experience to basicly just using Lloyd.
Fixing these issues, fixing playable mage targeting, along with adding more shortcuts would go a long way. I'm sick of babysitting and being an apolgist for Tales AI flaws.
I also wish they'd cut down on the combo focus a bit, or at least add it along with a bunch of other play styles into a reward system.
Symphonia had great polish, a great localization, more interesting dungeons. But at the same time compared to Eternia had less interesting side content, poor subsystems, terrible characters and a story which started off cute and dumb, and sunk to pure stupidity halfway through, with needless, although utterly predictable plot twists and miserable pacing which made me hate the game world. The pacing and presentation from that point on almost made me just drop the game and quit like I did with WA3.
I had a lot of fun with Symphonia, and I love Tales, it's just a personal thing I guess, but I always come away with plenty to bitch about, Symphonia way moreso than Destiny II/Eternia.
How do you guys play rpgs for "gameplay"?
The only rpgs with fun battle systems are the recent FF games (sans FF-X2) and some others IMO. Hell, even those would get old REAL quick if the incentive to play wasn't there (great plots and cool cast) ^_~
Action battle systems = little to no strategy = teh suck
The only rpgs with fun battle systems are the recent FF games (sans FF-X2) and some others IMO. Hell, even those would get old REAL quick if the incentive to play wasn't there (great plots and cool cast) ^_~
Action battle systems = little to no strategy = teh suck
Ok, I'm starting to come around to inventing a bit now that I have a better grasp after reading the manual/guide. Apparently you REALLY need the guide to make anything. Those charts are vital...
Essentially you have to keep rolling the dice with the 'base price' value until the good you want to invent shows up. For instance:...I wanted to craft a sword for Fayt and perusing the smithery chart in the book, I noticed I can invent a pretty powerful "Rune Blade" which is one of the best swords to make for Fayt until I require help from NPC recruits that have far superior smithy stats to my party. The Rune Blade has a base price of 5250 according to the invention chart, so I keep spamming the x-button until my production line comes up with a price for an invention that is at or slightly above 5250(like rolling dice). From there, it's all about crossing fingers. Assuming my 3 chosen workers -smith- skill add up to a total beyond the EVA of the Rune Blade(number requires guide...invisible in game), then hopefully they can make the good on first attempt. If not, save/reload so you don't blow excess cash with unsuccessful re-attempts, particularly with the quality meter draining constantly only making re-attempts more difficult to succeed.
They really shoulda streamlined this whole procedure. I can't fathom the poor soul that will try to grasp this system without the handy chart displaying the required inventor, EVA, and price levels for each item. The game just tells you nothing... Some inventions just cannot be made without the help of a certain NPC, and yet all the game gives you is an arbitrary base price for an item you have no clue about.
Bottom-line: Buy the book...
But hey, I am in the town of Peterny, barely 12 hours of gametime, and my 3 party members are equipped with badical weapons that will last well beyond what the next several towns may offer. That rune blade...it has a sell price of 52000! It's patented under my name to sell in shops around the world, so hopefully I will be raking in free cash? That does sort of feel neat...
Essentially you have to keep rolling the dice with the 'base price' value until the good you want to invent shows up. For instance:...I wanted to craft a sword for Fayt and perusing the smithery chart in the book, I noticed I can invent a pretty powerful "Rune Blade" which is one of the best swords to make for Fayt until I require help from NPC recruits that have far superior smithy stats to my party. The Rune Blade has a base price of 5250 according to the invention chart, so I keep spamming the x-button until my production line comes up with a price for an invention that is at or slightly above 5250(like rolling dice). From there, it's all about crossing fingers. Assuming my 3 chosen workers -smith- skill add up to a total beyond the EVA of the Rune Blade(number requires guide...invisible in game), then hopefully they can make the good on first attempt. If not, save/reload so you don't blow excess cash with unsuccessful re-attempts, particularly with the quality meter draining constantly only making re-attempts more difficult to succeed.
They really shoulda streamlined this whole procedure. I can't fathom the poor soul that will try to grasp this system without the handy chart displaying the required inventor, EVA, and price levels for each item. The game just tells you nothing... Some inventions just cannot be made without the help of a certain NPC, and yet all the game gives you is an arbitrary base price for an item you have no clue about.
Bottom-line: Buy the book...
But hey, I am in the town of Peterny, barely 12 hours of gametime, and my 3 party members are equipped with badical weapons that will last well beyond what the next several towns may offer. That rune blade...it has a sell price of 52000! It's patented under my name to sell in shops around the world, so hopefully I will be raking in free cash? That does sort of feel neat...
Anyone else locate the "Aquatic Garden, Surferio"? It seems to be a bonus dungeon. I have all of the SO3 soundtracks, and the music for this dungeon is the first track on the Director's Cut OST (More Complicated is the track name). It is quite possibly the most beautiful dungeon I've ever seen in an RPG like this.
Here's an image...
You can't really tell in that shot, but the area is incredibly huge looking and features a massive polygonal backdrop. They use this soft bloom lighting effect to give everything a very dreamy look while the actual stone you walk on has a very sweet shiny glass effect. I wonder how many additional dungeons are from the DC?
This game has a lot of neat graphical touches throughout. I was impressed that they actually bothered with shadow projectors. If there is a large window or a fence or something with light shining through, the shadows roll over your character much like what you see in Spliter Cell or UT2003/4. Very cool!
Here's an image...
You can't really tell in that shot, but the area is incredibly huge looking and features a massive polygonal backdrop. They use this soft bloom lighting effect to give everything a very dreamy look while the actual stone you walk on has a very sweet shiny glass effect. I wonder how many additional dungeons are from the DC?
This game has a lot of neat graphical touches throughout. I was impressed that they actually bothered with shadow projectors. If there is a large window or a fence or something with light shining through, the shadows roll over your character much like what you see in Spliter Cell or UT2003/4. Very cool!
Alex
Member
It's a different kind of experience, Konex. Between something like Tales and Dragon Quarter.
I play for plot and characters too, it just isn't a big focus for me. If I didn't care at all, I'd never bring them up.
Though you also have no taste, and this has been known for, like, years? So I doubt I'd be able to explain it to you.
FFXI is the only Final Fantasy game with a solid combat engine, then again FFXI's combat engine at it's peak is better than the bulk of JRPG's.
I play for plot and characters too, it just isn't a big focus for me. If I didn't care at all, I'd never bring them up.
Though you also have no taste, and this has been known for, like, years? So I doubt I'd be able to explain it to you.
FFXI is the only Final Fantasy game with a solid combat engine, then again FFXI's combat engine at it's peak is better than the bulk of JRPG's.
sure, i do. they just beg comparison because they're similar in a lot of ways. if i hadn't played TOS first, i don't think the flaws in SO3 would have been quite as obvious. they still would have been as irritating....djtiesto said:
this kind of stuff really pissed me off. they spend all of this energy writing out a fucking encyclopedia in the game, but basic stuff that's absolutely necessary to the gameplay is omitted. way to prioritize.Brandon F said:
ferricide said:
Yeah, it's just that it seems every other post on this board is comparing SO3 and TOS, and nearly every other post is bashing SO3 and praising TOS, or the reverse. I think both games have good and bad, but both games good far outweighs the bad IMO
The SO games so far seem like you need the guide to do anything with the IC system, which kinda pisses me off, too... you need to do a lot of duplication and then you can finally do other things like forge or customize, and it requires a lot of reset/restarts. I'm doing the trick to build up amazing weapons and get the Clarinet 2 to fight Gabriel (powerful enemy that gives out a LOT of experience) in SO1, I would've never known how to do this if it wasn't for the guide. But, to their credit, the first time through SO1 and 2, I hardly did any item creation (with the exception of mixing a few herbs and using identify), and I still was able to beat the game pretty easily... The second time it was absolute cake when I actually knew what I was doing
The item creation system is filled with a lot of *GREAT* ideas, and cool strategies... but it's really awkward and frustrating. I don't wanna tell you how many times I wanted to throw my controller down to the floor after playing SO1 It's also weird, because going by the formulas in the guide, too often I should be crafting with near flawless success, but it rarely feels that way. Even when my smithing skill far exceeds the requirement for an item, random factors tend to slip in and screw up the math causing failure. What those random factors are I don't know... Surely that quality bar can't be having that much of an adverse effect when it is 90+% full still!
So many things could have been done to alleviate the bullshit involved. It's archaic for no reason other than to push guides...but when it does work, it's very rewarding.
So many things could have been done to alleviate the bullshit involved. It's archaic for no reason other than to push guides...but when it does work, it's very rewarding.
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
You know, people are always suggesting that obscure features or secrets in games are included to sell guides, but I remember quite a few obscure games that didn't even have guides.
I too enjoyed ToS and am enjoying SO3 (for what its worth, I'm still playing it, 23 hours in).
The AI in ToS was excellent. Not perfect, of course, but extremely customizable, fluid, and responsive. If you selected the AI options to limit their TP consumption at the 25%, 50%, or 75% levels, they WOULD stop using skills and techs. If you merely set them to "moderation" then they'd go all out until their TP drops to 50%, and then merely slow down from there. The only real quirk to the AI is what mages and casters do once they are totally out of TP... and that's walk up to an enemy and whack it with your enemy. The reason being, for every regular attack you do on an enemy, you get 1 TP back, so that's the only way, sans using items or having certain accessories equipped, that you can gain TPs back in combat, and your AI controlled members will resort to that when totally drained of TPs. Questionable, but that's how the game was programmed.
Brandon F, get used to those AI "dead moments." They won't go away. I've gotten what I THOUGHT were black screens of death about a dozen times already. Turns out, they were just REALLY long loads, about 30 seconds long, give or take. They sometimes occur to me either when I hit the button to jump into the menu interface, or when switching rooms. If the music is still playing, the game has NOT crashed, it's merely loading at a very slow pace for some oddball reason.
darkx, I just spent about 2 hours in that dungeon (with all 4 bonus battles options enabled) fighting the Bestial and Intellectuals for roughly 900 Exp and 4000 Fol per battle. After all 3 of my guys hit level 30, I took all that cash and went back to Airyglyph and bought every single uber weapon there (19k - 44k Fol each), and 1 uber armor for each of my 3 party members. Now I'm totally pwning the dragons in the copper mines. Heh. Also, this dungeon, which I haven't completed yet, actually, is like a cross between Derris Kharlan from ToS (very similar in structure and look, and as I'm sure you know, home to one of the best songs on the OST) and something out of Rygar...
That said, I'll echo Ferricide. I probably would have enjoyed SO3 much more had I experienced it before ToS. The gameplay of each game is certainly similar enough to lend itself to comparison. I miss the SO2 skill system, however. This one is totally gimped by comparison. Only 4 skills to power up, all of them nothing more than stat boosters? Lame... :/
The AI in ToS was excellent. Not perfect, of course, but extremely customizable, fluid, and responsive. If you selected the AI options to limit their TP consumption at the 25%, 50%, or 75% levels, they WOULD stop using skills and techs. If you merely set them to "moderation" then they'd go all out until their TP drops to 50%, and then merely slow down from there. The only real quirk to the AI is what mages and casters do once they are totally out of TP... and that's walk up to an enemy and whack it with your enemy. The reason being, for every regular attack you do on an enemy, you get 1 TP back, so that's the only way, sans using items or having certain accessories equipped, that you can gain TPs back in combat, and your AI controlled members will resort to that when totally drained of TPs. Questionable, but that's how the game was programmed.
Brandon F, get used to those AI "dead moments." They won't go away. I've gotten what I THOUGHT were black screens of death about a dozen times already. Turns out, they were just REALLY long loads, about 30 seconds long, give or take. They sometimes occur to me either when I hit the button to jump into the menu interface, or when switching rooms. If the music is still playing, the game has NOT crashed, it's merely loading at a very slow pace for some oddball reason.
darkx, I just spent about 2 hours in that dungeon (with all 4 bonus battles options enabled) fighting the Bestial and Intellectuals for roughly 900 Exp and 4000 Fol per battle. After all 3 of my guys hit level 30, I took all that cash and went back to Airyglyph and bought every single uber weapon there (19k - 44k Fol each), and 1 uber armor for each of my 3 party members. Now I'm totally pwning the dragons in the copper mines. Heh. Also, this dungeon, which I haven't completed yet, actually, is like a cross between Derris Kharlan from ToS (very similar in structure and look, and as I'm sure you know, home to one of the best songs on the OST) and something out of Rygar...
That said, I'll echo Ferricide. I probably would have enjoyed SO3 much more had I experienced it before ToS. The gameplay of each game is certainly similar enough to lend itself to comparison. I miss the SO2 skill system, however. This one is totally gimped by comparison. Only 4 skills to power up, all of them nothing more than stat boosters? Lame... :/
SolidSnakex
Member
dark10x said:Anyone else locate the "Aquatic Garden, Surferio"? It seems to be a bonus dungeon. I have all of the SO3 soundtracks, and the music for this dungeon is the first track on the Director's Cut OST (More Complicated is the track name). It is quite possibly the most beautiful dungeon I've ever seen in an RPG like this.
Here's an image...
I went their earlier today on accident. The enemies didn't kill me but the drained my energy quite a bit. I was able to get a 63hit combo on them though. The combat system seemed kinda stiff at first, but it seems to flow alot better now. Fayt has such a great air combo set up also (his running sword uppercut).
Why would anyone complain about the AI in ToS? Its pointless even on the highest difficulty settings. Fuck Llyod, Kratos, Zelos, Regal, and Presea. Let the melee bastards do what ever they want as long as they are getting their asses kicked and taking the damage. Play Genis, becasue whatever the other morons could do combined isnt half of the damage Genis can put out. Play Genis, mass spell attack and stick Raine's Revitalize on the c-stick command. AI problems what? It doesnt matter anymore. The otehr characters dont matter their sole purpose in the game is to keep Genis and Raine away from the jaws of the enemy, which they can do 100% of the time no matter how dumb their AI is.
Once the WoW stress test is over ill be jumping back into SO3, im only about 4 hours into it now. Hopefully its good.
I agree for teh most part. Although Im beginning to find the more traditional RPG battle system boring. Thats why I like Grandia 2 and Xtreme alot. It keeps the turn based strategy part intact but it moves so quickly and heavy on the action so it more satisfying like an ARPG.
Once the WoW stress test is over ill be jumping back into SO3, im only about 4 hours into it now. Hopefully its good.
I agree for teh most part. Although Im beginning to find the more traditional RPG battle system boring. Thats why I like Grandia 2 and Xtreme alot. It keeps the turn based strategy part intact but it moves so quickly and heavy on the action so it more satisfying like an ARPG.
GermanOfficer
Member
I played SO3 now for nearly 6 hours and have just beaten Shelby.
I must agree with the fact that SO3's battlesystem fells kinda broken and that the AI is dumb as sh**
Grandia 2 and ToS showed how a good fluid real time battle system works, so I have at least the hope that Squenix will do better in the next SO game (2008 or so).
I don't konw whether I will beat the game or sell it in the next days, I think I will wait for the guide and then decide whether it is worth keeping and playing.
I just hate myself for paying 17 of custom fees just to get the game shortly after its launch...
GO
I must agree with the fact that SO3's battlesystem fells kinda broken and that the AI is dumb as sh**
Grandia 2 and ToS showed how a good fluid real time battle system works, so I have at least the hope that Squenix will do better in the next SO game (2008 or so).
I don't konw whether I will beat the game or sell it in the next days, I think I will wait for the guide and then decide whether it is worth keeping and playing.
I just hate myself for paying 17 of custom fees just to get the game shortly after its launch...
GO
One thing I'm curious about...
The song "A Critical Moment" moment was only present on the Director's Cut soundtrack as well, but that music is played during various scenes in the game (particularly early on). Were there additional scenes added that early in the game? That just seems odd as they didn't really come off as "bonus scenes".
Oh, and I have about 30 hours on the clock now and am just about to switch to Disc 2. I enjoyed the medieval world quite a bit too. I really like this game, though! While it certainly has its fair share of flaws, they haven't prevented me from having a blast. I still enjoy getting into battles and am really having a blast with them. It hasn't really been a big year for RPGs, but this is easily my favorite thus far.
The song "A Critical Moment" moment was only present on the Director's Cut soundtrack as well, but that music is played during various scenes in the game (particularly early on). Were there additional scenes added that early in the game? That just seems odd as they didn't really come off as "bonus scenes".
Oh, and I have about 30 hours on the clock now and am just about to switch to Disc 2. I enjoyed the medieval world quite a bit too. I really like this game, though! While it certainly has its fair share of flaws, they haven't prevented me from having a blast. I still enjoy getting into battles and am really having a blast with them. It hasn't really been a big year for RPGs, but this is easily my favorite thus far.
Riskbreaker
Member
Question.....Some folks at gamefaqs said Star Ocean 3 comes in a cardboard box with the dvd case/ manual inside, is this true?
edit: I'm going to purchase my copy today at Fry's and just wanted to make sure I get the cardboard box verion (if it's legit).
Star Ocean 3
edit: I'm going to purchase my copy today at Fry's and just wanted to make sure I get the cardboard box verion (if it's legit).
Star Ocean 3
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Its very much true. Although I have to go and pricematch myself since I bought it from my TRU. But if they don't give me my employee discount after pricematching, I'll just go fucking buy it at Best Buy.
Riskbreaker said:Question.....Some folks at gamefaqs said Star Ocean 3 comes in a cardboard box with the dvd case/ manual inside, is this true?
edit: I'm going to purchase my copy today at Fry's and just wanted to make sure I get the cardboard box verion (if it's legit).
Star Ocean 3
Yes, it comes in a foil printed box with the DVD case inside. The cover of the DVD case is that of the original Japanese version while the actual box is what you've seen as the official US cover art. It's a very nice package.
Riskbreaker
Member
dark10x said:
Thanks dark10x and RevenantKioku for the fast reply..