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Star Trek Enterprise Series Finale "These are the Voyages" 5/13
- Thread starter ManaByte
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I hated the series finale, spoilers within dont look unless you seen the finale.
I just read pheonix's earlier posts and he had the same complaints. :lol
It felt more like an next generation episode then a enterprise one, let alone the series finale. In typical Berman, Braga fashion the contrived death of tucker was appalling, how the heck did the bad guys even get on enterprise. It reminded me of the stupid way data died. We didn't even hear Archers speech in the end. WTF!!!
I guess it was appropriate to have Braga, and Berman deliver the final death knell to Enterprise, and for the time being Star Trek.
I guess it was appropriate to have Braga, and Berman deliver the final death knell to Enterprise, and for the time being Star Trek.
I just read pheonix's earlier posts and he had the same complaints. :lol
Fuzzy said:
Eh, I don't know, I've never really liked most of Dennis McCarthy's score to Star Trek: Generations, including the main theme used in that alternate intro. The only track I really, really like from that film is the one from when Picard is in the Nexxus, it's a great airy, moody, and "wispy" piece with a chorus to boot (I swoon for choruses in movie scores).
Phoenix said:
I'm pretty sure the implication is that, in fact, "Space, the final frontier..." IS Archer's speech. The fact that it cuts in just as he gets out there, and that Troi says she had to learn it in school... Yeah. Not really much of a speech to give to a room that big.
Wheeljack539
Member
To be honest, I didn't find it that bad, considering what some have already said. However, the Enterprise D has never looked so damn good, I practically gasped at the first shot of it, the level of detail....
As much as I've grown to love the E, seeing the D here made me realize how much I've missed it.
As much as I've grown to love the E, seeing the D here made me realize how much I've missed it.
BigJonsson
Member
That was certainly.....different :/
Wheeljack539
Member
ManaByte said:
Speaking of Ten Forward, anyone notice Picard in that scene? He had his back turned but I could recognize that head anywear on the D.
Shouta
Member
Getting to see the D was nice but they could've used a cleaner version of the TNG's sets rather than trying to approximate it. It was a little irksome because the hallways and all that Jazz were a little off due partially to different lighting and set differences (like the Turbo-lift was different on the inside).
As for the ending, kind of weak but the principle idea and execution for the episode was nice. I have to agree with whoever said it felt more like a TNG episode than the end of Enterprise though because in a lot of ways, the plot was more about Riker's character during the Pegasus event than the decomissioning of the original Enterprise. I do like the fact you got to see each of the characters have a small dialogue bit that reflected on Trip and Archer's relationship and Riker's thoughts as well. That aside though, the episode was still weak.
And what's this about Data I read in a spoiler up there? =P.
As for the ending, kind of weak but the principle idea and execution for the episode was nice. I have to agree with whoever said it felt more like a TNG episode than the end of Enterprise though because in a lot of ways, the plot was more about Riker's character during the Pegasus event than the decomissioning of the original Enterprise. I do like the fact you got to see each of the characters have a small dialogue bit that reflected on Trip and Archer's relationship and Riker's thoughts as well. That aside though, the episode was still weak.
And what's this about Data I read in a spoiler up there? =P.
BigJonsson
Member
Does this mean they want a show with Riker as the main character?
ManaByte
Member
BigJonsson said:
If Nemesis did well, they were going to do another TNG movie that would've lead directly into a Riker series where it's him as the captain of the Titan. It would be basically Riker, Troi, and a new cast with a massive Romulan War as the background story. But Nemesis sucked and that won't happen.
Escape Goat
Member
Shouta said:
I know for Generations they had to make new sets because the old ones were wood and were rotting/destroyed from being in storage for so long. And I doubt they'd go to recreating it completely because of budget constraints.
Teh Hamburglar said:
Ummm, no. Generations literally started filming like a week (maybe less) after they finished the last episode of the series - they merely "upgraded" the existing sets, most obviously the bridge by adding the stations to the side.
If you mean First Contact, then obviously they built new sets because it was a new ship. However, last I heard the "horseshoe arch" from the TNG bridge set was still in storage, may not still be though, but that was a great set piece.
ManaByte
Member
Teh Hamburglar said:
Uh...what the fuck are you talking about?
Generations used the same sets as the show with the bridge being the only one to get extensive redresses for it.
They finished filming All Good Things... and went directly into filming Generations on the same sets. After Generations, the sets were dismantled. Only the sets that wouldn't be needed for Generations were destroyed before the movie. They weren't in storage for a long time because there was less than a month between the end of TNG and the start of filming Generations.
All Good Things... was filmed in March 1994 and they started filming Generations in April or May.
Escape Goat
Member
I know they had to build new pieces of some of the bridge set is all. And about First Contact, I think they used Voyagers ready room for Picards as well
Teh Hamburglar said:
I don't believe they rebuilt any of the underlying structure, but as I said they added those stations on the side and resurfaced some of it so it would hold up better on a big movie screen.
First Contact uses quite a few redressed sets from Voyager actually. Sick Bay is a redressed Voyager set too.
ManaByte
Member
They added to the bridge because the Galaxy class ships had removable bridge modules. They just pop out the old one and plop in a new one and some time between All Good Things... and Generations they got a new bridge on the D.
Any TNG fan needs this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-0895491-5103219?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Any TNG fan needs this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...002-0895491-5103219?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
I'm not reading this thread, because it'll probably make me sad. I just thought the conclusion was really well done. The double-episode thing worked great. Archer's speech in the "current" time to keep the alliance delegation on track was excellent and great closure to the series.. while the actual finale sealed the deal, and also provided closure for all of Star Trek with this being the first time in eighteen years that we're without. Very well done. Fantastic.
Me too!
teiresias said:
Me too!
Escape Goat
Member
I remember "playing" the technical manual simulator on the PC. You could tool around the ship and inspect crew quarters and engineering and such. On the bidge you could launch a torpedo and a probe and activate a transporter in the transporter room. Back then it was cool but I look back on it now and think... :/
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Screw teh Tech Manuel.
I got that big giant book with the huge blueprints of every deck of the enterprise D
I got that big giant book with the huge blueprints of every deck of the enterprise D
Kumiko Nikaido
Vindication...sweet.
teiresias said:
The finale airs again on Sunday at 8 p.m.
The finale was o.k.....yeah, it was refreshing to see the Next-Gen sets plus the Enterprise-D all over again. Riker's and Troi's scenes were good, but everything else involving the Enterprise crew was kinda meh. The unique take on how Riker played "Chef" was interesting, but that aspect felt detached since we never got to "know" that character through the 6 year gap time frame (which the final episode takes place).
And that "montage" of ships at the end was lame since it was too short. Overall, the finale should've been all about the Enterprise crew (and ended with Archer's much-balleyhooed speech), and not about the Next-Gen crew as at ribute.
Black Deatha
Member
Oh for christs sakes!
Fuck someone needs to punch Rick Berman in the brain, did anyone else notice how he in what I am sure he thought was a brilliantly subtle way worked in the phrases "All good things" AND "Next generation", jesus christ it would have probably just been as easy to go up to each case member and Many Coto and spit in there faces. FUCKIN IDIOT.
All said I didnt hate the episode, but I was trying to keep my expectations down going in, so I think that helped, and hey, no one has mentioned, but the episode before it was awsome!!
~Black Deatha
Fuck someone needs to punch Rick Berman in the brain, did anyone else notice how he in what I am sure he thought was a brilliantly subtle way worked in the phrases "All good things" AND "Next generation", jesus christ it would have probably just been as easy to go up to each case member and Many Coto and spit in there faces. FUCKIN IDIOT.
The premis behind the episode wasnt bad, and I have nothing aganst Frakes and Sirtis, but god, the show and it's cast were good enough to stand on there own, the fast forwarding 6 years was a suprise at first, but not really bad, but like many have said, building up to Archers speach and NOT EVEN DELIVERING, GOD DAMN, think just how much better the ending could have been if it had Archer deliver a at least 3 minute long well written (meaning by someone NOT Berman & Braga) and have it end with everyone giving a standing ovation, and focusing on archer and ending there. Oh and I almost forgot, FUCK them for killing off Trip, he was one of my faves, the least they could have done was make it better how and why he died. I am not evin going to bother complaining about those enemies getting on the ship that easy, Idiot Berman
All said I didnt hate the episode, but I was trying to keep my expectations down going in, so I think that helped, and hey, no one has mentioned, but the episode before it was awsome!!
~Black Deatha
Crazymoogle
Member
Shouta said:
What are you referring to specifically -
Enterprise Spoilers
Him appearing in Ten-Forward as well as in voice
or
Nemesis Spoilers
Him dying in a poorly written way during an absolutely embarassing movie?
BuckRobotron
Member
I liked how they generally focused on and had a heroic
, but really, it would have been better to keep the best thing about the show around just in case. But I guess that was meant to emphasize the finality of this cancellation...
Other things were fun such as the old sets being seen again, and the needless but teasing revelation by Hoshi hints at what might have been given another season.
Lots of stuff not to like, though. T'pol being so open with Riker/chef character just didn't make sense for the character, including consideration of the future versions we've seen of her. This silly end-series imbalance for her character must be what ticked her off. And the compressed Trip/T'pol relationship is a mess compared to how things evolved with say Paris/B'elanna in Voyager.
Plus the reactions to the spoiler above were horribly compromised by the quick timeframe. Any real episode would have had more reaction (especially from the blue-skin that just disappears from the story).
And, of course, the upstaging of the cast by both severely compressed storyline and Riker/Troi looking over their shoulders was an embarassment. Bah.
ending and appreciation for Trip
Other things were fun such as the old sets being seen again, and the needless but teasing revelation by Hoshi hints at what might have been given another season.
Lots of stuff not to like, though. T'pol being so open with Riker/chef character just didn't make sense for the character, including consideration of the future versions we've seen of her. This silly end-series imbalance for her character must be what ticked her off. And the compressed Trip/T'pol relationship is a mess compared to how things evolved with say Paris/B'elanna in Voyager.
Plus the reactions to the spoiler above were horribly compromised by the quick timeframe. Any real episode would have had more reaction (especially from the blue-skin that just disappears from the story).
And, of course, the upstaging of the cast by both severely compressed storyline and Riker/Troi looking over their shoulders was an embarassment. Bah.
Synbios459
Banned
I hate how they never said who Future Guy was
Synbios459
Banned
Oh, and not to be racist, but on Terra Prime I thought it was funny that a black man was one of the main people on the show that were against aliens and a human vulcam hybrid. Trip should've said something like "Oh yeah, well just 200 years ago, white people had the same exact attitude towards black people!".
UltraMarioMan
Member
Wait I'm confused. How the heck can Riker be on Enterprise?
ok, my thoughts.
first, the finale was meh. I stopped watching Enterprise sometime in the second season.. it was just really, well, not good... I had heard that things had turned around this season but never got around to watching it unfortunately. but I made a point of making sure I watched the last three episodes (as TV Tome episode list hinted that they were a three parter). I am glad I watched all three.
The terra prime two parter was simply amazing. If that is what this last season has been like in general, I entirely regret missing it. I couldn't believe that this was the same show I stopped watching a little over two years ago. The acting improved, the direction improved, and the writing was like a completely different show. Boooo to UPN and Paramount for not getting behind this "new" show if these last two episodes are indicative of the quality of this last season. Easily some of the best episodes of star trek ever in those last two. When
I actually got choked up.
Then there is "These are the voyages..." I agree with everyone that seeing the D in HD was pretty damn awesome. But the episode was just average.. actually I would say even a little below average.
was just weak and meaningless, and the potentially best part of the episode was cut out (assuming berman or braga didn't want to have to actually right a meaningful speach.)
I did enjoy the very ending though. I thought that was a very VERY classy way to take Star Trek off the air after 18 years. The one thing berman and braga did right in this episode.
2 or 2.5 out of 5.....
Terra Prime (and the episode before) are easily 4 or 4.5 out of 5.. just awesome.
first, the finale was meh. I stopped watching Enterprise sometime in the second season.. it was just really, well, not good... I had heard that things had turned around this season but never got around to watching it unfortunately. but I made a point of making sure I watched the last three episodes (as TV Tome episode list hinted that they were a three parter). I am glad I watched all three.
The terra prime two parter was simply amazing. If that is what this last season has been like in general, I entirely regret missing it. I couldn't believe that this was the same show I stopped watching a little over two years ago. The acting improved, the direction improved, and the writing was like a completely different show. Boooo to UPN and Paramount for not getting behind this "new" show if these last two episodes are indicative of the quality of this last season. Easily some of the best episodes of star trek ever in those last two. When
Elizabeth died
Then there is "These are the voyages..." I agree with everyone that seeing the D in HD was pretty damn awesome. But the episode was just average.. actually I would say even a little below average.
Trips death
I did enjoy the very ending though. I thought that was a very VERY classy way to take Star Trek off the air after 18 years. The one thing berman and braga did right in this episode.
2 or 2.5 out of 5.....
Terra Prime (and the episode before) are easily 4 or 4.5 out of 5.. just awesome.
Black Deatha
Member
borghe said:
Yeah man, Season 4 has totoaly been like this all the way through, I strongly recomend you either dl the eppisodes or at least rent or buy season4 on DVD when it comes out later this year.
~Black Deatha
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Star Trek has never really been able to do death in a good way.
Spock's death was just awesome
Dax's death in DS9 was sad. Wish she had gone out fihgitng, but the scene really fit and well, getting killed by Dukat isn't all bad.
Then we have the bad deaths.
Tasha Yar's death was just to sudden. Oooh, evil killer oil slick
Kirk, come on. Falling off a bridge is not they way for Kirk to die. It was just lame to send Kirk out that way
Data's death would have been fine had they not had the backup ready to go
Kes in Voyager just dind't seem to fit either. Though I liked the ep where they brought her back.
Trip's death was just weak and pretty pointless. Aliens somehow catch up and kill him. Should have had him throw himself in front of Archer int eh planet or something.
Spock's death was just awesome
Dax's death in DS9 was sad. Wish she had gone out fihgitng, but the scene really fit and well, getting killed by Dukat isn't all bad.
Then we have the bad deaths.
Tasha Yar's death was just to sudden. Oooh, evil killer oil slick
Kirk, come on. Falling off a bridge is not they way for Kirk to die. It was just lame to send Kirk out that way
Data's death would have been fine had they not had the backup ready to go
Kes in Voyager just dind't seem to fit either. Though I liked the ep where they brought her back.
Trip's death was just weak and pretty pointless. Aliens somehow catch up and kill him. Should have had him throw himself in front of Archer int eh planet or something.
DrForester said:
Let's count the plotholes:
1. "I thought they didn't have warp engines to catch up to us!" (therefore, no explanation at all)
2. "Intruder alert"... urrg... err... how again?
3. 2-3 minutes without a single person walking by that corridor? Security? Hello!??
Any more I'm missing?
Synbios459
Banned
See, I don't quite understand why everyone cares so much HOW someone dies, instead of what they were like. I mean just because someone did something really great doesn't mean that they are necessarily going out with a bang. I mean think about the people who died in those plane crashes; not due to being fired on from the enemy, but because of mechanical error or whatnot. Does the fact that they may have killed a bunch of terrorists or liberated people from some terrorists mean that their deaths don't matter unless they get shot or blow up a building with them in it?
Even despite all the great things that people may do doesn't mean they're going to have a very fancy death. Just my 2 cents.
Even despite all the great things that people may do doesn't mean they're going to have a very fancy death. Just my 2 cents.
I agree with Synbios but this ep had such a huge whole that Trip and the Capt. even acknowledged....
I'm sad that Trip's death was so meaningless.
I'm sad that Trip and T'pol never got back together.
I'm sad that the final ep had Riker and Troi in it... I mean WTF.
I'm not sad that Archer's speech wasn't in ep... even if this had been a "real time" ep I think it would have been could to end the ep as he was walking out to the podium.
I did like the ending with the mixing of the 3 Enterprise ships and Capt intro's....
Even as bad as this one was.... it was better than Andromeda's final ep... we kept hearing the Magog worldship survived last season's explosion... yet we never saw the damn thing.. <sigh>
I'm sad that Trip's death was so meaningless.
I'm sad that Trip and T'pol never got back together.
I'm sad that the final ep had Riker and Troi in it... I mean WTF.
I'm not sad that Archer's speech wasn't in ep... even if this had been a "real time" ep I think it would have been could to end the ep as he was walking out to the podium.
I did like the ending with the mixing of the 3 Enterprise ships and Capt intro's....
Even as bad as this one was.... it was better than Andromeda's final ep... we kept hearing the Magog worldship survived last season's explosion... yet we never saw the damn thing.. <sigh>
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