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[Tal Shiar Agent]

You are correct. The type of game the old battlefront was is best played as a TPS. But me, amongst a lot of other people, thought a dice developed battlefront game would be a star wars battlefield game. Today's news just tossed that out the window and it's kind of disheartening for the people who really wanted that game.

And yet everyone was clamoring for the game to not be Star Wars Battlefield before the reveal.

 

[DeaviL]

You are very right. And I think that's what some of us are doing. I'm glad you got the game you wanted. I just wish I could've gotten the game I wanted, too.

Thanks for the reasonable response.
Hope you'll get your game too one day.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

You are correct. The type of game the old battlefront was is best played as a TPS. But me, amongst a lot of other people, thought a dice developed battlefront game would be a star wars battlefield game. Today's news just tossed that out the window and it's kind of disheartening for the people who really wanted that game.

Many of us also thought this game would be Star Wars Battlefield. Or to be more accurate, we feared it. For many of us todays glorious news simply gets us back on the hype train.

 

[Coxswain]

You are very right. And I think that's what some of us are doing. I'm glad you got the game you wanted. I just wish I could've gotten the game I wanted, too.

The difference, of course, being that if you, as someone who likes ADS, decides not to buy a game that doesn't have it, you've got dozens of options every year, at least a couple of which are likely to slot into whatever other stylistic preferences you might have.

Whereas for those people who hate ADS, it is basically a gift from heaven if there are three credible non-ADS games in a two-year period, and if those games fail to appeal to you for any reason besides ADS, you pretty much just suck it up and don't play any games in this genre for another couple years.

 

[Scrawnton]

Thanks for the reasonable response.
Hope you'll get your game too one day.

I'd like to think I've been relatively reasonable throughout all of my discussions in this thread. I will still keep my eye on this game and see if it peaks my interest, but I will have to see when gameplay is shown.

 

[Scrawnton]

The difference, of course, being that if you, as someone who likes ADS, decides not to buy a game that doesn't have it, you've got dozens of options every year, at least a couple of which are likely to slot into whatever other stylistic preferences you might have.

Whereas for those people who hate ADS, it is basically a gift from heaven if there are three credible non-ADS games in a two-year period, and if those games fail to appeal to you for any reason besides ADS, you pretty much just suck it up and don't play any games in this genre for another couple years.

I respect your point of view. But man would I love a sci fi version of battlefield. I really hope some day they build that game, because it would be glorious.

 

[1044]

Your ingoring the fact that ADS SEVERELY LIMITS THE GAME DESIGN. It literally turns every game it has been in into a COD paced game.

It isnt t say that ADS doesnt work or isnt fun, but it does entirely push it into a very specific game design mold that a lot of people are sick of and dont want in fps games anymore

It is a fact that movement and dodging become incredibly more important in non ads games. It is a fact that 1 on 1 fights become more then just whoever has the twitchier aim in a non ads game. It is a fact that games without ADS have a much higher skill ceiling then those without it. The last one is the most important one, people want a high skill ceiling in games as they want to feel like they are getting better.

Why do you think that including ADS automatically changes the way the game is designed?

Does CS suffer from this problem game design because you can duck? Ducking does the same thing as ADS, slows you down while improving your accuracy, but no one complains about being able to duck. Would the game be even more high-skill if they removed ducking? Maybe, but would it make that much of a difference or does it hurt/benefit the game design?

I'm sure the game designers can figure out a way to include ADS in a way that doesn't make the game automatically low skill ceiling like you suggest.

 

[Jarate]

Also, if you guys want sci-fi battlefield, then play Planetside 2, which is pretty much Battlefield with scifi mixed in, and hey it has bigger playercounts then Battlefield or Battlefront!

 

[joecanada]

Man I'm gonna have to wait and see on this game now... If it turns into a hopping competition like some TPS style shooters I'd have to be out. Nothing ruins immersion like people hopping around dodging bullets by jumping everywhere... Hopefully there's tiny jump mechanics

although the dolphin dive in CoD is not any better

^edit - hey we never got planetside on ps4 yet!

 

[woodland]

Hell yes. If only other game companies would take the hint and keep it like it always was.

*hint hint 343*

 

[DeaviL]

Man I'm gonna have to wait and see on this game now... If it turns into a hopping competition like some TPS style shooters I'd have to be out. Nothing ruins immersion like people hopping around dodging bullets by jumping everywhere... Hopefully there's tiny jump mechanics

although the dolphin dive in CoD is not any better

^edit - hey we never got planetside on ps4 yet!

If they're faithful to classic Battlefront, no jumping and shooting at the same time.
Also, rolling for dodging.

Why do you think that including ADS automatically changes the way the game is designed?

Does CS suffer from this problem game design because you can duck? Ducking does the same thing as ADS, slows you down while improving your accuracy, but no one complains about being able to duck. Would the game be even more high-skill if they removed ducking? Maybe, but would it make that much of a difference or does it hurt/benefit the game design?

I'm sure the game designers can figure out a way to include ADS in a way that doesn't make the game automatically low skill ceiling like you suggest.

Ducking merely changes your you lowest accuracy, firing in burst is still required.
It also brings your head at reticule height. It's a tactical choice different from ADS.
So yeah, it does change the gameplay.

Next question?

 

[Jarate]

Why do you think that including ADS automatically changes the way the game is designed?

Does CS suffer from this problem game design because you can duck? Ducking does the same thing as ADS, slows you down while improving your accuracy, but no one complains about being able to duck. Would the game be even more high-skill if they removed ducking? Maybe, but would it make that much of a difference or does it hurt/benefit the game design?

I'm sure the game designers can figure out a way to include ADS in a way that doesn't make the game automatically low skill ceiling like you suggest.

Ducking is basically not used in 95% of situations though, it's basically a thing to use when in long range and when taking cover.

Killzone 2 had ironsights but they werent that important.

Optional ironsights would be fine, but there's logical reasons why they might not want it to be in the game. Example being that it might confuse casual cod fans who are expecting the game to play a certain way, or that they didnt feel it was a nevessary addition worth spending time on if it is practically useless to there simply not being enough buttons on a controller.

So yes, Ironsights can exist in games and they can still be good, but games like CS arent known as ducking games because you dont need to do that for 95% of the gunplay like you do in ADS games like COD

 

[BennyBlanco]

Good. I actually might buy this game.

 

[Forerunner]

I don't mind ADS, however there are some games where it works and others it doesn't. Battlefront is a game where it doesn't belong.

 

[spootime]

Why do you think that including ADS automatically changes the way the game is designed?

Does CS suffer from this problem game design because you can duck? Ducking does the same thing as ADS, slows you down while improving your accuracy, but no one complains about being able to duck. Would the game be even more high-skill if they removed ducking? Maybe, but would it make that much of a difference or does it hurt/benefit the game design?

I'm sure the game designers can figure out a way to include ADS in a way that doesn't make the game automatically low skill ceiling like you suggest.

I would argue that pretty much all console shooters with ADS play the same in terms of gunplay. Titanfall, cod, battlefield, etc all are pretty much clones of each other when it comes to shooting and controlling your gun.

 

[TheSlySoul]

I don't mind ADS, however there are some games where it works and others it doesn't. Battlefront is a game where it doesn't belong.

Agreed.
It works on Battlefield, not Battlefront.

 

[Spy]

Why do you think that including ADS automatically changes the way the game is designed?

Does CS suffer from this problem game design because you can duck? Ducking does the same thing as ADS, slows you down while improving your accuracy, but no one complains about being able to duck. Would the game be even more high-skill if they removed ducking? Maybe, but would it make that much of a difference or does it hurt/benefit the game design?

I'm sure the game designers can figure out a way to include ADS in a way that doesn't make the game automatically low skill ceiling like you suggest.

ADS discourages movement and favors a stop and shoot approach. ADS would also favor those playing in first person due to them having a faster TTK (time to kill) due to aiming being more precise.

Battlefront was and is a 3rd person shooter with the option to go in 1st person. Instead of looking at this as a Battlefield game, start looking at it more as SOCOM.

 

[TI82]

ADS discourages movement and favors a stop and shoot approach. ADS would also favor those playing in first person due to them having a faster TTK (time to kill) due to aiming being more precise.

Battlefront was and is a 3rd person shooter with the option to go in 1st person. Instead of looking at this as a Battlefield game, start looking at it more as SOCOM.

So will aiming be like in Gears of War and Resident Evil, IE: somewhat ADS but more aim over shoulder?

 

[Madness]

It's still ADS if the hipfire means that it's less accurate, while aimed down means you move slow but can fire more accurately. In Halo 5, just to cater to the CoD fans, they introduced aim down sights, which go against the past 5 main games, go against story lore. I don't know why people need ADS in every game. As if shooters didn't exist or weren't playable before them.

Battlefront is shaping up to be the best game in a long time. More hype for it than Halo. Price of games is now like $90+ with tax in Canada, so this might be the only game I get at launch.

 

[Jarate]

So will aiming be like in Gears of War and Resident Evil, IE: somewhat ADS but more aim over shoulder?

No one really knows, this could still easily be an ADS shooter, but even then, some people will be happy that half the gun wont be covering your screen and your fov goes down to 40

 

[Kane Zakharov]

Sorry, but that's bullshit. Having to lead your shots a little bit and account for a tiny bit of bullet drop is fucking n o t h i n g compared to basically anything that happens in Tribes or Q3 or UT2k4, when you're talking about 'differences between this and Call of Duty'.

You might as well be trying to sell me on "color" being a totally different word from "colour" when the conversation is about "how much difference there is between all the words in the English language".

No shit, I didn't say otherwise. Nobody is denying there are some similarities between the two. You don't have to go as far as Tribes to be using the projectile system in a meaningful way, nor would it make sense for BF games in the first place. The bullets in BF games don't move remotely as fast as their life counterparts btw.

I'm not exactly sure why there is a need to point this out in the first place. Surely the difference between UT and Q3 is nothing when compared to CoD as well, no?

 

[Jarate]

No shit, I didn't say otherwise. Nobody is denying there are some similarities between the two. You don't have to go as far as Tribes to be using the projectile system in a meaningful way, nor would it make sense for BF games in the first place. The bullets in BF games don't move remotely as fast as their life counterparts btw.

I'm not exactly sure why there is a need to point this out in the first place. Surely the difference between UT and Q3 is nothing when compared to CoD as well, no?

But then that means that COD and Battlefield play similarily which is what hes arguing

 

[Metfanant]

Killzone 2 had ironsights but they werent that important.

Very good example too...the better players used controlled hipfire to their advantage...but you COULD bring up the iron sights if you wanted, though hipfire was the way to go

 

[joecanada]

It's still ADS if the hipfire means that it's less accurate, while aimed down means you move slow but can fire more accurately. In Halo 5, just to cater to the CoD fans, they introduced aim down sights, which go against the past 5 main games, go against story lore. I don't know why people need ADS in every game. As if shooters didn't exist or weren't playable before them.

Battlefront is shaping up to be the best game in a long time. More hype for it than Halo. Price of games is now like $90+ with tax in Canada, so this might be the only game I get at launch.

Any game can be fun but the immersion is way different. Ads means you are in the game, other mechanisms are just watching a character on screen. Also there's only one way to correctly fire a gun accurately, running around jumping and shooting isn't one of them.

I'm not saying I dont appreciate the other games I probably will like battlefront but there's a few reasons people do enjoy the ads mechanism.

Like socom was good you had a mix of TPS and ads

 

[DeaviL]

Example of expected zoom (and gunplay).

 

[Valnen]

Example of expected zoom.

Yeah, we at least need to have that over the shoulder zoom in the game or big maps will be unplayable.

 

[Jarate]

Any game can be fun but the immersion is way different. Ads means you are in the game, other mechanisms are just watching a character on screen. Also there's only one way to correctly fire a gun accurately, running around jumping and shooting isn't one of them.

I'm not saying I dont appreciate the other games I probably will like battlefront but there's a few reasons people do enjoy the ads mechanism.

Like socom was good you had a mix of TPS and ads

In the far future science fiction world, everybody ADS

The movie is rife with ADS

 

[Kane Zakharov]

But then that means that COD and Battlefield play similarily which is what hes arguing

When they're compared to the likes of Tribes? Of course. Again, not sure why that needs to be pointed out.

 

[Spy]

So will aiming be like in Gears of War and Resident Evil, IE: somewhat ADS but more aim over shoulder?

I imagine something like Warhawk but with a more pulled in view and no auto lock on.

 

[Omega]

Can someone explain why we celebrate something being taken away or not included?

ADS is triggered on the controller. So if you dont like ADS then don't press that trigger. To take away the option for people who do like it, makes little sense.

Eg. I can run around in Destiny and never use ADS, then choose to play only using it. Its up to me.

Enlighten me to what i'm missing here.

because any game with ADS forces you to use ADS through its game design?

Load up Battlefield, get into a private server with a friend (if they even allow that stuff) and stand 100m or so away from each other. One of you ADS and the other hipfires.

 

[Coxswain]

When they're compared to the likes of Tribes? Of course. Again, not sure why that needs to be pointed out.

When they're compared to basically any FPS that falls outside of the modern-ish ADS bulletgun wargame cluster.

It needs to be pointed out to quash the bullshit claim that Battlefield and Call of Duty "feel nothing alike" or "aren't even related" or whatever the fuck else.

 

[Signet Son]

They have already said so during the Star Wars celebration thing. Why is this news now?

Hah! My thoughts exactly.

 

[Endorphineforeverybody]

ADS would also favor those playing in first person due to them having a faster TTK (time to kill) due to aiming being more precise.

That's not really correct. It depends on position and the distance between the players. Hipfire in close position will outperform ADS, when exactly same time needed to point on head. Just the few ms are enough for hipfire being winner, and when it's close you don't have to worry about the spray.

Overall I think it suits this game, and people have forgotten how great it has been in Halo or other games with no/or only ads on scoped weapons.

I'm happy that we get a Star Wars Game ^_^

 

[Metfanant]

because any game with ADS forces you to use ADS through its game design?

Load up Battlefield, get into a private server with a friend (if they even allow that stuff) and stand 100m or so away from each other. One of you ADS and the other hipfires.

1. Not necessarily true...play KZ2...

2. There is a reason guns have sights...because you shoot more accurately using them...I would expect at a distance of 100m that the dude looking down the barrel of the gun would shoot more accurately lol

 

[Kane Zakharov]

When they're compared to basically any FPS that falls outside of the modern-ish ADS bulletgun wargame cluster.

It needs to be pointed out to quash the bullshit claim that Battlefield and Call of Duty "feel nothing alike" or "aren't even related" or whatever the fuck else.

If you say so.

 

[Jarate]

1. Not necessarily true...play KZ2...

2. There is a reason guns have sights...because you shoot more accurately using them...I would expect at a distance of 100m that the dude looking down the barrel of the gun would shoot more accurately lol

Killzone 2 is not an ADS shooter like COD or Battlefield are, its mostly just a thing added because they wanted the COD audience.

ADS shooters are games where practically 95% of the gunplay takes place in ADS which is a severely limiting thing to FPS games.

Getting rid of ironsights might not mean jack shit, and it could be that Dice didnt have enough time to implement proper sights on their lazer guns, or it could mean that ADS isnt that important anymore.

But Iron Sights modern implementation is bad for shooters

 

[Coxswain]

2. There is a reason guns have sights...because you shoot more accurately using them..

I'm not sure how you get more accurate than 'the exact center pixel of your crosshairs', which is a thing that plenty of games do without ever using sights.

 

[Anton Sugar]

When they're compared to basically any FPS that falls outside of the modern-ish ADS bulletgun wargame cluster.

It needs to be pointed out to quash the bullshit claim that Battlefield and Call of Duty "feel nothing alike" or "aren't even related" or whatever the fuck else.

I was responding to this:

Give me a console shooter with ADS that didnt essentially turn into a COD clone. Yes there will be pc games where this isnt the case, but on consoles, this entirely true

Which implies that any console shooter with ADS is a COD clone.

Battlefield has ADS. It is not a COD clone. Yes, they are both military bro shootbang or whatever snarky shit you want to call them.

You say there is no difference between hitscan and non-hitscan games, yet I think you would get a very different answer from anyone who plays these games often. Yes, the gulf between projectiles in BF vs hitscan in COD is muuuuch closer than the gulf between projectiles in BF vs something like Tribes.

What MY point was, was that just dropping ADS into a game doesn't make it a clone of COD and Battlefield is proof of that. There are so many different variables between the gunplay mechanics in both games, but I'm sure you'd dismiss them as "not enough".

 

[Jarate]

I was responding to this:



Which implies that any console shooter with ADS is a COD clone.

Battlefield has ADS. It is not a COD clone. Yes, they are both military bro shootbang or whatever snarky shit you want to call them.

You say there is no difference between hitscan and non-hitscan games, yet I think you would get a very different answer from anyone who plays these games often. Yes, the gulf between projectiles in BF vs hitscan in COD is muuuuch closer than the gulf between projectiles in BF vs something like Tribes.

What MY point was, was that just dropping ADS into a game doesn't make it a clone of COD and Battlefield is proof of that. There are so many different variables between the gunplay mechanics in both games, but I'm sure you'd dismiss them as "not enough".

Ive played cod and Battlefield pretty extensively and the gunplay is prctically the same beyond sniping, in which sniping only really has you aiming at a different position to make up for bullet drop and moving targets.

The shooting and gunplay is pretty much the exact same thing

 

[jailbird20022]

You are correct. The type of game the old battlefront was is best played as a TPS. But me, amongst a lot of other people, thought a dice developed battlefront game would be a star wars battlefield game. Today's news just tossed that out the window and it's kind of disheartening for the people who really wanted that game.

WHY DO YOU WANT A BATTLEFIELD GAME WITH A STAR WARS SKIN SLAPPED ON.

This I cannot, even after months of battlefront's reveal, understand. I like battlefield and everything but I want something different, not battlefield: star wars edition.

Mean if you battlefield future edition you might as well play planetside 2.

 

[Coxswain]

Battlefield has ADS. It is not a COD clone. Yes, they are both military bro shootbang or whatever snarky shit you want to call them.

You say there is no difference between hitscan and non-hitscan games, yet I think you would get a very different answer from anyone who plays these games often. Yes, the gulf between projectiles in BF vs hitscan in COD is muuuuch closer than the gulf between projectiles in BF vs something like Tribes.

What MY point was, was that just dropping ADS into a game doesn't make it a clone of COD and Battlefield is proof of that. There are so many different variables between the gunplay mechanics in both games, but I'm sure you'd dismiss them as "not enough".

I've met people who swear up and down that they love the shit out of Coca-Cola, but can barely choke down a glass of Pepsi, or vice versa.

Now, they are perfectly entitled to care, deeply, about all the little subtle differences between either drink. That's their right and I'm not trying to convince them otherwise.

But if I say "That's all pretty much the same shit, I'd like a glass of water" and they go off about how they are nothing alike, in that context, then yes, of course I'm going to dismiss their arguments as "not enough" to constitute any sort of fundamental (or particularly significant) difference.

 

[Silphonica]

Really, this is the best news for this game yet.

 

[ClaptoVaughn]

While we're on the topic of gun usage in this game, will it have reloading?

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone reload a laser gun in Star Wars before, but then again I haven't seen one in a while. Do their guns require changing a cartridge/battery pack, or does it simply cool off/recharge?

 

[jailbird20022]

While we're on the topic of gun usage in this game, will it have reloading?

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone reload a laser gun in Star Wars before, but then again I haven't seen one in a while. Do their guns require changing a cartridge/battery pack, or does it simply cool off/recharge?

Primaries had to be reloaded, secondaries (usually) had a cool down if fired too fast/long

also reloading in the

Spoiler

*cough canon *cough

expanded universe via ion packs, energy cells, ect. Basically the guns ran on batteries.

 

[Jarate]

While we're on the topic of gun usage in this game, will it have reloading?

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone reload a laser gun in Star Wars before, but then again I haven't seen one in a while. Do their guns require changing a cartridge/battery pack, or does it simply cool off/recharge?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blaster

I think it says in here that they need to be reloaded somehow

Id imagine there will be reloading, it helps limit spam

 

[Madness]

Any game can be fun but the immersion is way different. Ads means you are in the game, other mechanisms are just watching a character on screen. Also there's only one way to correctly fire a gun accurately, running around jumping and shooting isn't one of them.

I'm not saying I dont appreciate the other games I probably will like battlefront but there's a few reasons people do enjoy the ads mechanism.

Like socom was good you had a mix of TPS and ads

Not really immersion to have a weapon all of a sudden move from a players hands to the middle of the screen and then barely move when fired right. It was supposed to be some sort of realism, which I get Call of Duty wanted. But we're playing a video game man. Game play and fun should always trump realism, especially when we're talking about games set in the future, featuring aliens, robots, jedi/sith force users, Spartans etc.

Just saying, you can't claim realism in one part and then ignore it in the other. Recovering in 5 seconds from 8 bullet hits and then sprinting away isn't really realistic as well is it.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Odd omission. Disappointing.

 

[Mentok]

I'm trying to stay pessimistic, but the more news I hear the more my brain is going

 

[reynal1287]

You are very right. And I think that's what some of us are doing. I'm glad you got the game you wanted. I just wish I could've gotten the game I wanted, too.

The game you want is called Battlefield 5 not SW Battlefront.

 

[PeskyToaster]

I definitely did not think they would have done this. I prefer ironsights but I won't be skipping this over something so trivial. I'm surprised that this game is closer to the original SWBs than modern shooters.