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Star Wars Episode 7 - Thread of Pre-Production
- Thread starter Ape Gone Insane
- Start date
Forsaken82
Member
I see what you are saying. Perhaps part of the problem in my mind is that is that the original trilogy isn't capable of focusing on the more agile styles of some of the jedi/sith as the prequel trilogy is since there are so few jedi remaining to focus on, so you are limited to the heavier styles. Definitely an argument I can understand.
That being said, I still find the prequel duels far more entertaining because of their faster more agile nature. The flipping and crazy defensive parries are what make it.
Future PhaZe
Member
Eh, even coreography wise ESB is second only to TPM. It holds up really well.
Agility is fine but it gets way overplayed in AotC and RotS.
I'd love to actually have fear for the characters during these fights in future movies though.
Agility is fine but it gets way overplayed in AotC and RotS.
I'd love to actually have fear for the characters during these fights in future movies though.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
They need to bring back some epic space dogfights. There's been too much focus on the lightsaber battles ever since the prequels. It's interesting that Han Solo is one of the most popular OG characters yet he's not even a Jedi.
Sapiens
Member
It's plainly obvious that the PT is terrible, but the legions of fans pointing out every single aspect of why they hate the films has hit some a high echelon or nerd self righteousness.
It has become intolerable.
But, you know, it's their opinion.
I bet it will drive them mad one all the kids who saw the PT very young start turning 25 and become very nostalgic about it all.
It will create the great Star Wars schism of 2020
BattleMonkey
Member
According to Lucas it wasn't till the prequels did we get to see real Jedi/Sith fighting in their prime. He refers to the OT Jedi as Old men, a trainee, and a cripple (vader). This was his train of thought when he did TPM and the fight with Darth Maul. To him it was the first time we saw real Jedi and Sith in their prime going at it, hence all the fancy choreography.
But I do think there was alot of poorly done saber choreography in the prequels, some good but some was sloppy. You also had stuff like the fights with Christopher Lee where they obviously had to hide the fact that Lee couldn't perform those moves.
Jables Swan
Member
You beat me to it mate. Love this scene. The music sends tingles up my spine every time.
Anton Sugar
Member
Doubt it. It will be like 20-30 year olds today revisiting the 80's movies they cherished: embarrassing.
I don't really think that George "great ideas" Lucas's reasoning holds much water, especially given that there are only 20-30 years between the PT and OT. Sure, there were technical limitations in the OT, but you have plenty of old people doing crazy saber moves in the PT.
Lucas just got excited with what he could do with a huge budget and went wild. It's comical seeing Ian McDiarmid's duel closeups vs the CGI full body spin moves Lucas has "him" do.
Sapiens
Member
That doesn't stop today's 35-45 year olds from obsessing over the original trilogy, if you know what I mean. People love those films, warts and all (and even buy new editions with new warts).
I'm 21 and I prefer the new trilogy. So do most of my friends. ¯\_(ツ_/¯
Begins, the trilogy war has.
Anton Sugar
Member
I hear you, but the OT is objectively superior to the PT, overall. It's not a fair comparison.
The OT may be nothing than space pulp done well and it's clear that a lot of its success may be due to luck, nostalgia, or the "this has never been done" factor, but PT has serious storytelling and filmmaking problems that hamper just about every aspect. Above all, the OT tells a story that is engaging, motivated, and coherent.
I'm 21 and I prefer the new trilogy. So do most of my friends. ¯\_(ツ
You have bad friends and bad taste.
Sapiens
Member
Oh boy.
This will make me a lot of enemies, but I feel that, objectively, the Return of the Jedi was the most crowd-pleasing film, and therefore the best of the bunch.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
edit
thecouncil
Banned
that vader / obi wan 'new hope' fight is a tragedy. obi wan's pointless spin, leaving him completely open to attack, makes me laugh.
the last time these two guys fought (episode III), it was insane. you know they were both heading into the 'new hope' duel ready to crap their pants realizing what they were capable of now in comparison to what they were last seen doing. good thing both of them absolutely sucked. after vader throws out his first weak-ass attack, obi wan should be thinking, "wait, i could actually kill this guy here."
also, slowing down the phantom menace fight to see that they wouldnt hit each other is kinda ridiculous. cause you dont see any of that while watching at normal speed,... so who cares? is it disappointing to some because it proves it was really just a movie all along?
As stupid as it is to say "objectively" anything, it's painfully obvious that the prequel trilogy fails at fundamental basics of storytelling, and the original trilogy doesn't.
For my money, RoTJ has the best individual moments and one hell of a climax (the throne room/assault on the death star is fucking awesome and hasn't aged a day) but has way too much filler to be the best in the series.
Sapiens
Member
If you pause the Empire Strikes Back, you can tell that they are not really in space and therefore in no real danger.
Checkmate, haters.
Did you really just say that Darth Maul was the best villain of the saga?
...
You realize all he was was a single line and some face paint, right? What on earth is it with Star Wars fans and idolizing empty single-serving characters into something they're not?
Anton Sugar
Member
I don't really see how this can be argued. The PT was universally criticized as sloppy; if you read up on pre-production/production, it's easy to see why.
First fight was weak, I agree, but there are plenty of similar gaps in choreographic/editing logic in the PT, particularly with the older actors.
Even from the first time I saw this fight, it bugged the shit out of me that Palpatine got away with this slow ass stab.
Mr Green Saber literally has two seconds to strike him and he does jack shit.
These disparities kill it for me. Why spend all this time showing Jedi as these super acrobatic amazing fighters when he cuts down several of them, straight on? It never bugged me that Palpatine could do it--it's just the way he did it was so sloppy.
Future PhaZe
Member
I wonder if anyone who talks about "aiming for their swords" has actually fenced before. Strikes at the body with no regard for the enemies weapon can leave you open to counter attack, so aiming for his blade as a means of pushing it to the side to create an opening for an attack is typically the way things are done.
Anton Sugar
Member
I didn't say saga.
We're talking about low-hanging fruit here; NONE of the villains in the PT are fleshed out. If it comes down to choosing a vapid villain who also looks ridiculous/out of place (Grievous, Dooku, the entire trade federation, the entire droid army, etc.) vs a vapid villain who looks menacing (...Maul), it's not a difficult choice.
I don't think that's what's being criticized. There's a big difference between trying to parry or deflect an opposing sword and having no intent to hit a target. Like I said, though, a lot of modern film duels are guilty of this.
Ok, good. I assumed since the person you responded to was talking about the whole saga.
thecouncil
Banned
haha. yeah, yeah, that is really odd. no doubt about that.
i actually like the prequels though. and being a fan of something means recognizing the good with the bad. im not going to say those movies are perfect and i could poke fun at certain things in each series til the cows come home, but the prequels (to me) are just as good as the originals.
for example, ive always been fond of these few seconds of sabering in the dark from attack of the clones...
Holy shit, that fight is even worse than I remember. Had to watch another video to make sure it wasn't intentionally edited to look stupid.
Palpatine never should have used a lightsabre to begin with though.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
What do you guys think of Ryan vs Dorkman?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NE5elL30w4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RATMJ8JH1qo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NE5elL30w4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RATMJ8JH1qo
Jables Swan
Member
I'm 21 and I prefer the new trilogy. So do most of my friends. ¯\_(ツ
Yep, what Jarmel said.
Jables Swan
Member
Terrible.
What the fuck, this is one of the first things i saw on the internet or something. (hyperbole)
But seriously, it feels like ages ago, lol.
Forsaken82
Member
I can't deny that fight is pretty horrible, but at the same time I still find it more enjoyable to watch than Vader vs Obi Wan in A New Hope.
Anticitizen One
Banned
I'm 21 and I prefer the new trilogy. So do most of my friends. ¯\_(ツ
I'm sorry
Ape Gone Insane
Member
My annoyance in terms of choreography in the PT over OT was the jumping. There just seemed to be too much gymnastic jumping.
Anton Sugar
Member
Moff
Member
duels in the OT or so much better, they're the climaxes of built up drama and not just someone trying to stop someone else like in the PT. they're led by dialogue, followed by well planned strikes. not led by reflexes and reactions.
from all the PT duels, I like windu vs. palpatine the most, because its the only one thats similiar to the OT duels in that aspect. although I agree that sidious should never have been given a lightsaber, but mcdiarmid was so badass in that scene, I'm kind of able to forgive that.
I think the duels show in many ways the important differences between the OT and PT, and I clearly side with the OT.
from all the PT duels, I like windu vs. palpatine the most, because its the only one thats similiar to the OT duels in that aspect. although I agree that sidious should never have been given a lightsaber, but mcdiarmid was so badass in that scene, I'm kind of able to forgive that.
I think the duels show in many ways the important differences between the OT and PT, and I clearly side with the OT.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
Force kick.
I'm 21 and I prefer the new trilogy. So do most of my friends. ¯\_(ツ
I'm 17 and I vastly prefer the old trilogy. So do most of my friends. ¯\_(ツ
_/¯The PT duels have alot more influence in wuxia films with all its flashy acrobatics, and it shows. I have no problem with that.
Almost the end of January and still no word on who will direct. I just read an article speculating it could be Ron Howard.
http://www.latinospost.com/articles/10032/20130121/star-wars-episode-7-ron-howard-new.htm
http://www.latinospost.com/articles/10032/20130121/star-wars-episode-7-ron-howard-new.htm
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
That would be awful. Won't happen.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Nope.
The Elite
BOSS
I'm guessing you mean this gif?
That's one step away from Star Wars kid.
Didn't Lucas originally want Darabont to direct one of the PT? Darabont is Executive producer on the upcoming show, L.A. Noir and is directing the pilot for it. He's also got a credit for writing the upcoming Godzilla film. Apart from that, he looks very available. Just a random thought.
I don't think he'd be the worst choice. It would be easy to advertise him as the original show runner for The Walking Dead and Director of the Shawshank Redemption. He's also worked with a lot of CGI before, like with The Mist and The Walking Dead pilot.
I don't think he'd be the worst choice. It would be easy to advertise him as the original show runner for The Walking Dead and Director of the Shawshank Redemption. He's also worked with a lot of CGI before, like with The Mist and The Walking Dead pilot.
Thug Waffle
Member
you just voided all of star wars
I don't believe so, Daranbot and Lucas kind of had a falling out after Daranbot's Indy IV script was rejected in the early 90's (and honestly as much as Indy IV sucked Daranbot's script was pretty awful too).
He never really wanted to direct Star Wars outside of Episode IV. He likes editing and doing story outlines, not directing. It is just after he got sued by the Directors Guild for not putting opening credits in front of ESB he and the DGA had a major falling out and he very publicly and angerily quit the DGA. Lucas insisted that having opening credits on Star Wars would ruin them. DGA directors were then barred from working on Star Wars. And nearly every major director is in the DGA since it is very hard to get directing jobs for any of the studios without being in the guild so he was forced to go with a no-name workman like british director for Return of the Jedi (even Spielberg who wanted to direct ROTJ said he couldn't leave the guild to do it) who of course ended up completely over his head and Lucas had to step in and ghost direct most of Return of the Jedi himself. It is why he went to people like David Lynch, his options were either no-name workman directors or arthouse directors who'd never want to Star Wars. After that he realized due to his relationship with the DGA he could never get a capable director to direct the films and he'd have to do it himself even though he didn't enjoy the process. The DGA ended up getting rid of that absurd restriction thankfully.
The new situation with Disney and Lucas being out of the picture of course changes all this for the sequels.
ThreeSixty
December 16, 2009. 4:00 AM. THE LIGHT FIELD is the force. The mind. That guides. Controls.
I have mixed feelings. On the one hand how could new Star Wars not be amazing news? Then again the prequels could have been better (to say the least) and this does seem to just be Disney desperately trying to justify and recoup their investment. I mean were these sequels planned by LucasArts or started right after the Disney takeover? I immediately thought of Disney just trying to justify the billions they spent in buying LucasArts when I read the announcement. A means of making their money back. Perhaps I'm jaded. Perhaps these films will be legitimately amazing. I'll still be there in the cinema day one though. It's Star Wars. So I'm there.
They can't do worse than the prequels.
They had been working on them for a long while prior to the Disney purchase, Lucas wrote the story outlines for the trilogy and they had been meeting with writers prior to the Disney sale.
ThreeSixty
December 16, 2009. 4:00 AM. THE LIGHT FIELD is the force. The mind. That guides. Controls.
Ah okay. Well that's reassuring and good to know. If they were in the pipeline before the Disney deal then that at least shows the decision to greenlight these films wasn't purely financially motivated. So perhaps they will turn out great. Creatively speaking.