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[Hex]

What could Snoke have possibly offered Ren that would make him turn his back on his family.

Acceptence.
Being the son of two heroes, and the nephew of another could definitely be rough.
Add to that Han and Leia were probably not a totally mushy couple, Had was probably away alot on missions (and taking anything and everything to run from being tied down).
Leia had the weight of being the leader of the rebellion not to mention once the First Order started up.

Has there been any theories on Snoke not even being a physical person?

I sure as fuck hope not.

I have had beliefs that Snoke may be someone completely unrelated to what appears in the hologram, IE a Wizard of Oz type thing just more sinister.
BUT I do not think that Kylo would follow Snoke if they had not met in person and knowing who Snoke is.

 

[Liquidsnake]

So we know Kylo is obsessed to reach Vaders status. But I'm wondering if Kylo knows that Anakin went back to the light?

If not, could that be Hayden's part in VIII? Possibly appearing as a force ghost?

jesus if Luke failed to mention it to him during the amount of time they spent together, Maybe I understand Kylo now.

 

[GhaleonEB]

What could Snoke have possibly offered Ren that would make him turn his back on his family.

Ben was a young man with enormous powers, with parents who are separated; a mostly absent father, and a mother too busy doing political/military stuff, who ship him off to get trained by Luke (basically military school by way of his weird uncle). It wouldn't take much.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

So we know Kylo is obsessed to reach Vaders status. But I'm wondering if Kylo knows that Anakin went back to the light?

If not, could that be Hayden's part in VIII? Possibly appearing as a force ghost?

He knows. JJ confirmed it.

From Kylo's dialogue when he's speaking to Vader's mask, it sounds like he has communicated with him in some way. "Show me again the power of the darkness...."

 

[Secret Fawful]

So we know Kylo is obsessed to reach Vaders status. But I'm wondering if Kylo knows that Anakin went back to the light?

In the novelization, he knows.

 

[brandonh83]

I would like to know more about that stuff, right now it DOES seem somewhat contrived for Ben to not only be a leader of the Order but also Han and Leia's kid who is also a dark side user. It isn't out of bounds by any means for SW, but I am interested in knowing more about how all this fell into place.

 

[a916]

https://twitter.com/maxpinton/status/719314582943084545

LOL, I love this

So we know Kylo is obsessed to reach Vaders status. But I'm wondering if Kylo knows that Anakin went back to the light?

If not, could that be Hayden's part in VIII? Possibly appearing as a force ghost?

He knows, the novel is canon and it's also mentioned in that in their conversation between Ren and Snooke. It could easily be ignored since it's just a book but I believe JJ said that too.

 

[BFIB]

Ah, ok. I really need to read the novelization.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

So we know Kylo is obsessed to reach Vaders status. But I'm wondering if Kylo knows that Anakin went back to the light?

If not, could that be Hayden's part in VIII? Possibly appearing as a force ghost?

Wait... Hayden has a part in VIII?

 

[brandonh83]

I know it's been rumored that Hayden is in VIII, but is there any actual reason to believe it? I want that so bad but don't want to get my hopes up.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I know it's been rumored that Hayden is in VIII, but is there any actual reason to believe it?

Not really

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I know it's been rumored that Hayden is in VIII, but is there any actual reason to believe it? I want that so bad but don't want to get my hopes up.

Making Star Wars posted something about it last year but there's been nothing since.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Making Star Wars posted something about it last year but there's been nothing since.

Was the rumor about Frank Ozz beeing at Pinnwoods a rumor from Making Star Wars, too?

 

[brandonh83]

Not really

Making Star Wars posted something about it last year but there's been nothing since.

Fine I'll just go back to not being excited about Hayden coming back.

Fucking assholes.

 

[Roders5]

I know it's been rumored that Hayden is in VIII, but is there any actual reason to believe it? I want that so bad but don't want to get my hopes up.

I'll be seriously pissed off if he shows up, the guy ruined one of the most iconic characters of all time.

 

[brandonh83]

I'll be seriously pissed off if he shows up, the guy ruined one of the most iconic characters of all time.

I don't think he did at all and was doing what Lucas told him to do. With a better script and direction it would be awesome to me.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Cant wait for all the salt, I really hope this happens, just to see people going insane over 60 seconds of screentime.

 

[Blader]

I don't think he did at all and was doing what Lucas told him to do. With a better script and direction it would be awesome to me.

lol, well, with a better script and direction, any movie could be awesome.

 

[Hex]

I don't think he did at all and was doing what Lucas told him to do. With a better script and direction it would be awesome to me.

I wouldn't expect Hayden to have a place unti IX anyway

 

[Jigorath]

Doubt we ever see Hayden as Anakin again. Not counting the people who were in the PT and OT, Ewan McGregor is probably the only player from the prequels that they'll bring back.

 

[Hex]

I'll be seriously pissed off if he shows up, the guy ruined one of the most iconic characters of all time.

How can you ruin something that did not really exist outside of a name and some theories before?
There was nothing to ruin.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Was the rumor about Frank Ozz beeing at Pinnwoods a rumor from Making Star Wars, too?

Yeah, I think they posted something about it.

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

wonder if how they handle vader's likely appearance in Rogue One will tip us off at how the rest of the Star Wars film universe will deal with the character

 

[BFIB]

wonder if how they handle vader's likely appearance in Rogue One will tip us off at how the rest of the Star Wars film universe will deal with the character

Vader needs to be a feared unstoppable monster in Rogue One, if he's in it at all. I'm really hoping we get McDiarmind back as the Emperor too.

 

[Liquidsnake]

1. Who are Rey's parents
2. Is Kylo headed towards a reverse Annakin? Evil to good?

 

[GAMEPROFF]

How can you ruin something that did not really exist outside of a name and some theories before?
There was nothing to ruin.

Dont forget, this is the fanbase who claimed that the biggest jobber of cinema history was the biggest badass of sci fi fantasy cinema. Because he had a cool armor before he flew into a space vagina.

 

[brandonh83]

lol, well, with a better script and direction, any movie could be awesome.

I mean... yes, which is my point, Hayden was never a problem for me personally. I thought he was mostly fine in III. It was some of the writing, and I can't really blame much on Hayden when you have performers like Ewan McGregor, Sam Jackson, and others not doing a great job either. Natalie Portman is fucking awful in the prequels and she's an Academy winning actress. These actors can be fantastic but no one is killing it in the prequels.

If Hayden came back in one of these new ones that have better scripts and direction, I think he would not only be fine, but it would be super cool.

 

[-griffy-]

Is Kylo headed towards a reverse Annakin? Evil to good?

Kylo is headed towards an inverse Luke. His TFA ending was Luke's ESB ending. He's being tempted by the light side of the Force, makes a big move to try and go up against his dad in a big show of the dark side that doesn't really work out, and ends up losing the battle at the end. Now he regroups and comes back stronger than he was before.

 

[brandonh83]

Kylo is headed towards an inverse Luke. His TFA ending was Luke's ESB ending. He's being tempted by the light side of the Force, makes a big move to try and go up against his dad in a big show of the dark side that doesn't really work out, and ends up losing the battle at the end. Now he regroups and comes back stronger than he was before.

While I think you're on point with that, I think the actual end of his arc is very unpredictable and that truly excited me. I have no idea where they're completely going with Ben.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Luke was darkside in the ESB duel? Is that confirmed by someone or just a theory?

 

[-griffy-]

Luke was darkside in the ESB duel? Is that confirmed by someone or just a theory?

You missed the "inverse" part of my post. Luke was being tempted by the dark side rather than the light, he goes up against his dad in a big show of the light side, and loses the battle.

 

[Hex]

Dont forget, this is the fanbase who claimed that the biggest jobber of cinema history was the biggest badass of sci fi fantasy cinema. Because he had a cool armor before he flew into a space vagina.

There will be no besmirching of the one and only Boba Fett up in here....
There are lines that should NOT be crossed.

BUT I get what you are saying

 

[Roders5]

How can you ruin something that did not really exist outside of a name and some theories before?
There was nothing to ruin.

While it is of course difficult to portray characters that people have imagined in their heads for years, I think he did an appalling job and was totally miscast. Surely you would agree that the man who became Vader and killed all the Jedi should have been a bad ass. He should have been charming and likeable to an extent but when he loses his cool he needs to actually be frightening and imposing, someone you absolutely don't mess with. Hayden just came across as a whiny brat, he totally did not have the screen presence for such a role.

 

[The Lamonster]

Luke was darkside in the ESB duel? Is that confirmed by someone or just a theory?

Luke was only dark side in the Dagobah cave and in the ROTJ lightsaber fight after Vader threatens to go after Leia.

 

[jelly]

Luke was darkside in the ESB duel? Is that confirmed by someone or just a theory?

I think he used the dark side to beat Vader in ROTJ but didn't fully embrace it and could control himself. He was just overconfident in ESB.

 

[brandonh83]

Luke was darkside in the ESB duel? Is that confirmed by someone or just a theory?

No. There was the fear from Yoda that Luke being reckless might not be a great thing because of who he is but I don't think Luke was ever going to go dark side.

It was a worry for Yoda and Kenobi after what Anakin went through so they were being super cautious. The whole point was Luke showing his dad that he doesn't need to be that asshole.

Luke was COCKY in that duel, but to me it was because he was scared and was trying to prove Yoda wrong about going there being a mistake.

 

[Liquidsnake]

So being angry is dark side?

So Obi Wan was Dark against Maul?

 

[GAMEPROFF]

So being angry is dark side?

So Obi Wan was Dark against Maul?

Obi Wan doesnt let his emotions slip that much, but I think this was refered to in Clone Wars. Pretts sure about that.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

My theory has been and continues to be that Kylo/Ben "falls" to the Light side in VIII, while something else causes Rey to go dark, and IX revolves around Ben trying to bring her back. Considering that Kylo's principle struggle is fighting to keep with the Dark Side, him going to the Light seems like an eventuality to me, so it's really a matter of how and when in my opinion. Rey has some subtleties in her performance and some specific aspects of her arch that make me think potential Dark Side user. Her rage at the end of the duel, her rapid and unprecedented accumulation of powers.

I definitely agree with "Oh shit, her" reading of Luke's face. My thoughts are that Luke sensed she had far too much potential, and with Kylo he was terrified she would turn and would become a far worse power for the Dark Side. So I think he dumped her off hoping she'd never be found by anyone, in a bit of a fucked up but somewhat understandable exile. He'd rather her never learn the Force and be kept away from it all than risk the chance of her falling.

Unrelated, but a totally random theory I have that will probably never be touched upon: Luke invented the "Force freeze". The way I see it, it's a more defensive tool in inception (even if clearly it can be used offensively), being able to stop blaster bolts (and presumably many other things), and freeze enemies in place without physically harming them directly. It almost has the same utility as Vader's favorite use of the Force, choking the shit out of people (immobilizing/neutralizing a foe), but requires far more power to do far less direct harm. Seems like something an extremely powerful Light side user would come up with.

I think he used the dark side to beat Vader in ROTJ but didn't fully embrace it and could control himself. He was just overconfident in ESB.

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty damn heavily implied. Once Vader wheeled out the idea of turning Leia he flat-out lost it and was fighting purely on total rage. It wasn't until he paused after neutralizing Vader and Palpatine starting cackling in glee that Luke reconsidered, recomposed himself, and rejected the Dark Side absolutely.

 

[Hex]

While it is of course difficult to portray characters that people have imagined in their heads for years, I think he did an appalling job and was totally miscast. Surely you would agree that the man who became Vader and killed all the Jedi should have been a bad ass. He should have been charming and likeable to an extent but when he loses his cool he needs to actually be frightening and imposing, someone you absolutely don't mess with. Hayden just came across as a whiny brat, he totally did not have the screen presence for such a role.

He was badass, he was the best pilot and probably one of the best swordsmen among the Jedi.
I think if he was more "badass" he would have had less vulnerability to the Dark Side, it was indeed the fact that he was insecure and "whiny" that the crack was there.
Not that you could blame him considering his life and the way people did treat him.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Kylo is headed towards an inverse Luke. His TFA ending was Luke's ESB ending. He's being tempted by the light side of the Force, makes a big move to try and go up against his dad in a big show of the dark side that doesn't really work out, and ends up losing the battle at the end. Now he regroups and comes back stronger than he was before.

This is a pretty succinct way of putting it, yeah.

Kylo crossed a line Vader never did. Vader couldn't kill his boy upon discovering who he was, and definitely couldn't do it when his boy offered him a chance at redemption. There was still good in him.

Kylo was offered the out (and he'd probably been offered that out multiple times in his past), and in return killed the person offering it to him. His dad tried to save him and he murdered his dad for it.

That's pretty much the end of his redemption story right there. So where does he go? He redoubles his efforts. He buys completely into the sunk cost fallacy. He chases this shit to the end of the line because if he couldn't turn his back on what a dipshit he's been up until this point, he certainly can't after killing his dad for nothing.

I don't think there's much potential in taking this story of Rey & Finn and their arc towards heroism, and turning it into a story where Kylo Ren is either of their saviors. I don't see what makes that worth pursuing. In fact, it seems to actively undo a lot of what makes this movie exciting from a narrative point of view.

 

[Sephzilla]

So we know Kylo is obsessed to reach Vaders status. But I'm wondering if Kylo knows that Anakin went back to the light?

If not, could that be Hayden's part in VIII? Possibly appearing as a force ghost?

I don't see how Luke could possibly skip over that important bit of info.

 

[brandonh83]

That's pretty much the end of his redemption story right there. So where does he go? He redoubles his efforts. He buys completely into the sunk cost fallacy. He chases this shit to the end of the line because if he couldn't turn his back on what a dipshit he's been up until this point, he certainly can't after killing his dad for nothing.

He's a little fucking shit that even if he figures out that being bad is stupid, he'll have to pay for his choices. One does not simply kill Han Solo.

 

[Sephzilla]

This is a pretty succinct way of putting it, yeah.

Kylo crossed a line Vader never did. Vader couldn't kill his boy upon discovering who he was, and definitely couldn't do it when his boy offered him a chance at redemption. There was still good in him.

Kylo was offered the out (and he'd probably been offered that out multiple times in his past), and in return killed the person offering it to him. His dad tried to save him and he murdered his dad for it.

That's pretty much the end of his redemption story right there. So where does he go? He redoubles his efforts. He buys completely into the sunk cost fallacy. He chases this shit to the end of the line because if he couldn't turn his back on what a dipshit he's been up until this point, he certainly can't after killing his dad for nothing.

I don't think there's much potential in taking this story of Rey & Finn and their arc towards heroism, and turning it into a story where Kylo Ren is either of their saviors. I don't see what makes that worth pursuing. In fact, it seems to actively undo a lot of what makes this movie exciting from a narrative point of view.

Kylo Ren killing Snoke is something that absolutely should happen in Episode 8. Ren doubling down on wanting to be Neo Vader should cause him to turn on his master and basically go full on power crazy. Basically make him as dangerous as Vader in a different way than Vader.

 

[Roders5]

He was badass, he was the best pilot and probably one of the best swordsmen among the Jedi.
I think if he was more "badass" he would have had less vulnerability to the Dark Side, it was indeed the fact that he was insecure and "whiny" that the crack was there.
Not that you could blame him considering his life and the way people did treat him.

I don't mean badass as in the best at everything, I mean he needed to be unnerving and actually scary when he got angry. Hayden just couldn't pull it off, when he tried to act tough it couldn't have been less intimidating.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Kylo Ren killing Snoke is something that absolutely should happen in Episode 8. Ren doubling down on wanting to be Neo Vader should cause him to turn on his master and basically go full on power crazy. Basically make him as dangerous as Vader in a different way than Vader.

YUP!

Get Snoke the fuck outta there.

 

[-griffy-]

I'm still partial to the idea Snoke is twisted enough that his final piece of training for Kylo is "Alright, you're ready. Now kill me."

 

[Prompto]

Kylo Ren killing Snoke is something that absolutely should happen in Episode 8. Ren doubling down on wanting to be Neo Vader should cause him to turn on his master and basically go full on power crazy. Basically make him as dangerous as Vader in a different way than Vader.

Really hoping this happens now. Makes perfect sense

 

[Joyful]

is Snoke actually huge or is that just hologram trickery

 

[Sephzilla]

is Snoke actually huge or is that just hologram trickery

I'd put a strong bet on it being hologram trickery. He's probably like 5 feet tall and a healthy afternoon snack for Chewie.