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[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Maybe a tad tangential, but what if the issue is that the Jedi (or light side users in general) need a dark counterbalance. The prequels talk about balancing the force, but wouldn't that necessitate dark users? So perhaps Luke "failed", because he had no dark counterbalance (beyond Snoke in the shadows), which necessitated the rise of Kylo (so in a sense, he succeeded in returning the light/dark balance to the Force)?

Just spit-balling shit and I kind of doubt they'd explicitly state something like, but it could be some kind of thing they hint at, or look into with the EU (by the way, is there a new proper term for non-film canon now?).

 

[JonCha]

Maybe a tad tangential, but what if the issue is that the Jedi (or light side users in general) need a dark counterbalance. The prequels talk about balancing the force, but wouldn't that necessitate dark users? So perhaps Luke "failed", because he had no dark counterbalance (beyond Snoke in the shadows), which necessitated the rise of Kylo (so in a sense, he succeeded in returning the light/dark balance to the Force)?

Just spit-balling shit and I kind of doubt they'd explicitly state something like, but it could be some kind of thing they hint at, or look into with the EU (by the way, is there a new proper term for non-film canon now?).

Non-film canon? I don't know. The redundant EU stuff is called Legends I believe.

 

[Tookay]

Maybe a tad tangential, but what if the issue is that the Jedi (or light side users in general) need a dark counterbalance. The prequels talk about balancing the force, but wouldn't that necessitate dark users? So perhaps Luke "failed", because he had no dark counterbalance (beyond Snoke in the shadows), which necessitated the rise of Kylo (so in a sense, he succeeded in returning the light/dark balance to the Force)?

Just spit-balling shit and I kind of doubt they'd explicitly state something like, but it could be some kind of thing they hint at, or look into with the EU (by the way, is there a new proper term for non-film canon now?).

Well, the George Lucas idea of balance was more about the idea that the Force was corrupted by the Sith/dark side so the Sith needed to be wiped out to restore "balance."

It wasn't about the light and dark side having equal numbers of users.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Well, the George Lucas idea of balance was more about the idea that the Force was corrupted by the Sith/dark side so the Sith needed to be wiped out to restore "balance."

It wasn't about the light and dark side having equal numbers of users.

That's true, but that interpretation hasn't been enshrined by anything in the current canon, has it? So they could still potentially play with the idea.

And I didn't necessarily mean equality, just the idea that the Force necessitates practitioners of all sides in general. Like I said though, just a random thought, I don't think it would go anywhere.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Ridley interview

The fact she says her lineage isn't all that important is strongly hinting she's not related to Luke then. Though I've been convinced of that since watching TFA.

Just spit-balling shit and I kind of doubt they'd explicitly state something like, but it could be some kind of thing they hint at, or look into with the EU (by the way, is there a new proper term for non-film canon now?).

Not really, it all just comes under the canon banner now. I still think of the Legends stuff when people use EU.

 

[soulluos]

"I think the amazing thing about Episode VII is that Finn and Rey don't come from anywhere and they find a place," she said. "To me, it's funny that people think [Rey's lineage] is so important, because I guess it is. But I don't really think it is because regardless of where you come from, where you go is the thing...you're moving forward, and you can make a family; you can find people who you love.

"And so I think the progression Rey is making is and the people she's meeting and the relationships she's making now are kind of more important than where she comes from. But that's just me."

In other words, Rey's lineage is a big deal but in her opinion, it is not as big as moving forward and finding new family.

 

[Mr Cola]

I'm hoping they start to move away from the idea of Jedi being the only light side force users. That seems to be happening already - Rey is a Force user, but not a Jedi; Maz (though that scene was cut) is, but she says she's not a Jedi; Leia, as she mentions. Similar to how they've moved beyond the Sith as the dark side Force users.

Luke's failure might be what makes Rey turn away from the Jedi as a school of thought and just do her own thing, as Kylo Ren has.

One slight issue I had with TFA is that, given all that happened with the Jedi, how flawed an order it was and that Luke had to go against the wishes of his masters in order to restore balance, he still went on to train Jedi after Return of the Jedi and it failed.

The jedi are a part of the problem, that much is incredibly clear, no solution to balance has been presented through them, only really in defiance, they both created the problem and failed to notice or fix it.

Im kinda sad Luke didnt realise this after Jedi, i would have hoped more he went into exile.

 

[Hex]

Growing up, me and my friends always assumed that Jedi meant good force user and Sith meant bad force user, and that's just how the spectrum was labelled. If you were a light force user, you were a Jedi.

It has never been that way.
Sith is something that has to be learned, and taught.
It is a specific path.
Jedi is the same way, you much learn the ways of the Jedi.
Just using the force does not make you a Jedi.
Going to the Darkside does not make you Sith , it makes you a Jedi who has fallen to the Darkside.
Pablo actually just again for the who knows how many times confirmed this on the Rebels after show.
There are many Force sensitive beings out there, as was stated the Witches of Dathomir are a big example.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

One slight issue I had with TFA is that, given all that happened with the Jedi, how flawed an order it was and that Luke had to go against the wishes of his masters in order to restore balance, he still went on to train Jedi after Return of the Jedi and it failed.

The jedi are a part of the problem, that much is incredibly clear, no solution to balance has been presented through them, only really in defiance, they both created the problem and failed to notice or fix it.

Im kinda sad Luke didnt realise this after Jedi, i would have hoped more he went into exile.

When people were asked Pablo Hidalgo about Luke's academy after the film came out, he said academy was too strong a word. It sounds like his 'Order' may have been more informal and a lot smaller in scale.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Maybe a tad tangential, but what if the issue is that the Jedi (or light side users in general) need a dark counterbalance. The prequels talk about balancing the force, but wouldn't that necessitate dark users? So perhaps Luke "failed", because he had no dark counterbalance (beyond Snoke in the shadows), which necessitated the rise of Kylo (so in a sense, he succeeded in returning the light/dark balance to the Force)?

Just spit-balling shit and I kind of doubt they'd explicitly state something like, but it could be some kind of thing they hint at, or look into with the EU (by the way, is there a new proper term for non-film canon now?).

In my interpretation of the PT/OT, that is exactly the point.

Prior to Vader, the Sith were far outnumbered by the Jedi (though they were following the rule of 2), and after Vader, they were even (balanced).

So Vader did bring balance to the Force... just not at all the way the Jedi thought he would.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

In my interpretation of the PT/OT, that is exactly the point.

Prior to Vader, the Sith were far outnumbered by the Jedi (though they were following the rule of 2), and after Vader, they were even (balanced).

So Vader did bring balance to the Force... just not at all the way the Jedi thought he would.

I don't think that's what Lucas intended when he used balance of the force. Vader brings balance to the Force when he lobs Palpatine down the Death Star pit.

In Lucas' ANH commentary for example:

Which brings us up to the films 4, 5, and 6, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe...

Though, admittedly it could be interpreted your way.

 

[sphagnum]

When people were asked Pablo Hidalgo about Luke's academy after the film came out, he said academy was too strong a word. It sounds like his 'Order' may have been more informal and a lot smaller in scale.

If the VR thing is anything to go by, he was just hanging out on Tatooine. Who knows if that counts though.

 

[Mr Cola]

When people were asked Pablo Hidalgo about Luke's academy after the film came out, he said academy was too strong a word. It sounds like his 'Order' may have been more informal and a lot smaller in scale.

I think that if this was true, it was not well explained in the film, i just opened it up and Han says

"He was training a new generation of Jedi"

Thats pretty lofty, I know you could make the case that a generation of something can be incredibly small, if the sample size is small enough, but the implication is much loftier.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I think that if this was true, it was not well explained in the film, i just opened it up and Han says

"He was training a new generation of Jedi"

Thats pretty lofty, I know you could make the case that a generation of something can be incredibly small, if the sample size is small enough, but the implication is much loftier.

That's what I thought as well. I assumed it would have been a larger number. It'll be interesting to find out when he actually started training Jedi.

If the VR thing is anything to go by, he was just hanging out on Tatooine. Who knows if that counts though.

Ha, what's all this about?

 

[Solo]

Generation makes no allowance for size though. A generation of Jedi could just as easily be 20 people as it could be 20,000.

 

[Hex]

I think that if this was true, it was not well explained in the film, i just opened it up and Han says

"He was training a new generation of Jedi"

Thats pretty lofty, I know you could make the case that a generation of something can be incredibly small, if the sample size is small enough, but the implication is much loftier.

A generation can be one person.
He could have been training one person and it would qualify, or two people.
I do not think that he would want to go large because it required finding Force sensitives in the first place.
Making assumptions, and setting expectations is what leads to long rants after the movie comes out that things did not live up to what you wanted.

 

[-griffy-]

I think that if this was true, it was not well explained in the film, i just opened it up and Han says

"He was training a new generation of Jedi"

Thats pretty lofty, I know you could make the case that a generation of something can be incredibly small, if the sample size is small enough, but the implication is much loftier.

That's such a general statement that it doesn't really tell us anything though. People just defaulted to full scale academy because of EU stuff probably, when it seems like it was more putting up flyers in the neighborhood saying "meet for Jedi lessons in the park at 2pm on Sunday, snacks provided." Yeah, he was trying to teach a new generation, but it's not like he had a business and elaborate certified teaching plan and state of the art Jedi facilities and all that.

 

[Mr Cola]

That's what I thought as well. I assumed it would have been a larger number. It'll be interesting to find out when he actually started training Jedi.

Something tells me if we go into the next few films expecting things like this to be wrapped up we will be disappointed, they are more focused on the here and now than the past.

One thing I was reminded about is an interview JJ gave to EW where he talked about the writing process with Kasdan, he said in some of the original script there was alot more exposition but Kasdan told him, paraphrasing "The audience is smart, you dont need to be so obvious, they will get things without being told" and I got that feeling alot in TFA, they gave you enough to chew on but never sat you down and told you everything that was going on.

Hell even in the OT they make mention to things in passing that until the PT were just things people speculated about, the Clone Wars, Boba Fetts history, the Hutts control, what the force is.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Something tells me if we go into the next few films expecting things like this to be wrapped up we will be disappointed, they are more focused on the here and now than the past.

One thing I was reminded about is an interview JJ gave to EW where he talked about the writing process with Kasdan, he said in some of the original script there was alot more exposition but Kasdan told him, paraphrasing "The audience is smart, you dont need to be so obvious, they will get things without being told" and I got that feeling alot in TFA, they gave you enough to chew on but never sat you down and told you everything that was going on.

Hell even in the OT they make mention to things in passing that until the PT were just things people speculated about, the Clone Wars, Boba Fetts history, the Hutts control, what the force is.

True, I don't think it'll necessarily be answered in the films, though there'll likely be extra material covering that after the sequel trilogy's done. But if Luke does teach Rey, I'd be surprised if they didn't go into the history of it a bit.

 

[Mr Cola]

A generation can be one person.
He could have been training one person and it would qualify, or two people.
I do not think that he would want to go large because it required finding Force sensitives in the first place.
Making assumptions, and setting expectations is what leads to long rants after the movie comes out that things did not live up to what you wanted.

That's such a general statement that it doesn't really tell us anything though. People just defaulted to full scale academy because of EU stuff probably, when it seems like it was more putting up flyers in the neighborhood saying "meet for Jedi lessons in the park at 2pm on Sunday, snacks provided." Yeah, he was trying to teach a new generation, but it's not like he had a business and elaborate certified teaching plan and state of the art Jedi facilities and all that.

I agree that you can interpret it as any number you like, but if it was small there are much better ways to say it than "a new generation"

Especially since our last encounter with new generations of Jedi was the PT with a huge jedi academy, younglings, council members etc, that is our precedent for what training jedi is, you can say training Luke was training a "New generation" but I think the implication is far loftier than "a small band of people".

 

[teeny]

I kind of like the idea of Luke training a small rag tag band of force sensitives. I always imagined the Jedi Order being a loosely connected order of warrior monks who were off in their own corners of space doing mystic things. There was a council to which they deferred but, by and large, they acted as guardians for their own quadrants. Until they were sucked into war and forced to become soldiers. The brief images of Luke's Jedi looked like they could fulfil that kind of role and would be departure enough from the prequel era Order - the first of the new.

It will be interesting to see why / how Luke failed - if the Emperor was right and that his faith in his friends was his greatest weakness. But that faith is ultimately rewarded when Vader recognises and responds to it - to have Luke fail because of it would undo some of his legacy, I feel.

 

[sphagnum]

Ha, what's all this about?

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...star-wars-virtual-reality-20160315-story.html

"Trials on Tatooine" begins with the trademark "Star Wars" crawl, informing viewers -- players -- that a young Kylo Ren is beginning his training with Luke Skywalker to become a Jedi. Its first few minutes are somewhat passive, as the Falcon arrives and Han Solo, never seen, speaks to his son. It becomes more interactive the second R2-D2 delivers Ren a blue lightsaber.

"Sorry, kid," says Solo, making it clear that this isn't a lift home.

The thing is, it isn't for wide release, so nobody knows if it's just some test they threw together or if it's supposed to be considered canonical.

 

[-griffy-]

All that statement means is that he's training new Jedi, since there weren't any Jedi for decades. That's it. There's no inference of scale or officiality or anything else.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...star-wars-virtual-reality-20160315-story.html



The thing is, it isn't for wide release, so nobody knows if it's just some test they threw together or if it's supposed to be considered canonical.

Interesting, I'd heard about a Star Wars VR demo but had no idea you played as Kylo.

 

[Hex]

All that statement means is that he's training new Jedi, since there weren't any Jedi for decades. That's it. There's no inference of scale or officiality or anything else.

It is like when someone has a kid and someone says that they welcomed the next generation of the family.
They did not spawn a brood, they had kid.

As a side note, as far as the VR wars go whichever gets the most Star Wars content will definitely have me.
So far the Star Wars Battlefront for Sony is the leader.

 

[sphagnum]

There have to have been multiple Jedi being trained by Luke, or else Kylo Ren wouldn't have earned the nickname "Jedi Killer" (per the Visual Dictionary).

 

[Hex]

There have to have been multiple Jedi being trained by Luke, or else Kylo Ren wouldn't have earned the nickname "Jedi Killer" (per the Visual Dictionary).

Absolutely , as soon as they said that something happened to send Luke into self exile I took the mindset that he either killed another student or killed Luke's woman. (Who could have been a Jedi)

 

[QuantumZebra]

I don't think that's what Lucas intended when he used balance of the force. Vader brings balance to the Force when he lobs Palpatine down the Death Star pit.

In Lucas' ANH commentary for example:



Though, admittedly it could be interpreted your way.

Ah, well that's that then.

Though to be fair, in my eyes Star Wars left George Lucas' hands a long time ago. The EU was far more compelling to me than the god-awful PT.

 

[CloudyTuba]

It has never been that way.
Sith is something that has to be learned, and taught.
It is a specific path.
Jedi is the same way, you much learn the ways of the Jedi.
Just using the force does not make you a Jedi.
Going to the Darkside does not make you Sith , it makes you a Jedi who has fallen to the Darkside.
Pablo actually just again for the who knows how many times confirmed this on the Rebels after show.
There are many Force sensitive beings out there, as was stated the Witches of Dathomir are a big example.

Yes, you just explained what I already explained and agreed with in the post immediately preceding the one you quoted.
That's what we thought growing up, as my post specifies. Not now. And it's only becoming more clear as time goes on that we were wrong.

I don't think that's what Lucas intended when he used balance of the force. Vader brings balance to the Force when he lobs Palpatine down the Death Star pit.

In Lucas' ANH commentary for example:

Though, admittedly it could be interpreted your way.

It's true that it isn't the way Lucas intended, but between what was shown on The Clone Wars and the tidbits from TFA, it seems to be going more that direction now. We'll see where 8 takes it.

 

[Mr Cola]

One thing we should get is some answers on the force, whether thats a good thing or not, Luke is on a journey to find the first jedi temple for a reason, one can only imagine thats to learn the origins of the force and how to use it in some capacity.

 

[LegendofLex]

It's true that it isn't the way Lucas intended, but between what was shown on The Clone Wars and the tidbits from TFA, it seems to be going more that direction now. We'll see where 8 takes it.

Eh, I didn't get that from the bit from TCW, since in context the circumstances whereby Anakin fulfills the prophecy did indeed require him to be able to nix the old dichotomy between light and dark, but only insofar as that was necessary to defeat Palpatine. His character is an exemplification of the fact that neither side is a definitive choice, that Yoda's exhortation that "once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny" is a false one.

From TFA, I actually see it as establishing the opposite. Kylo, a dark side user, exerts unnatural control through the Force; Rey follows the Force's guidance, the "light" that's "always been there," and wields it in a purely natural way. TFA makes no bones about which of these methods is superior and right.

 

[CloudyTuba]

Eh, I didn't get that from the bit from TCW, since in context the circumstances whereby Anakin fulfills the prophecy did indeed require him to be able to nix the old dichotomy between light and dark, but only insofar as that was necessary to defeat Palpatine. His character is an exemplification of the fact that neither side is a definitive choice, that Yoda's exhortation that "once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny" is a false one.

From TFA, I actually see it as establishing the opposite. Kylo, a dark side user, exerts unnatural control through the Force; Rey follows the Force's guidance, the "light" that's "always been there," and wields it in a purely natural way. TFA makes no bones about which of these methods is superior and right.

I just realized that we have spoken before about this subject haha
I guess we're both stuck in our ways.

 

[QuantumZebra]

"I think the amazing thing about Episode VII is that Finn and Rey don't come from anywhere and they find a place," she said. "To me, it's funny that people think [Rey's lineage] is so important, because I guess it is. But I don't really think it is because regardless of where you come from, where you go is the thing...you're moving forward, and you can make a family; you can find people who you love.

"And so I think the progression Rey is making is and the people she's meeting and the relationships she's making now are kind of more important than where she comes from. But that's just me."

In other words, Rey's lineage is a big deal but in her opinion, it is not as big as moving forward and finding new family.

Yep. People are reading the "not important to me" part, not the "I guess it is important"

Rey Skywalker confirmed

 

[Hex]

Eh, I didn't get that from the bit from TCW, since in context the circumstances whereby Anakin fulfills the prophecy did indeed require him to be able to nix the old dichotomy between light and dark, but only insofar as that was necessary to defeat Palpatine. His character is an exemplification of the fact that neither side is a definitive choice, that Yoda's exhortation that "once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny" is a false one.

From TFA, I actually see it as establishing the opposite. Kylo, a dark side user, exerts unnatural control through the Force; Rey follows the Force's guidance, the "light" that's "always been there," and wields it in a purely natural way. TFA makes no bones about which of these methods is superior and right.

It is not false at all.
Once you start down the dark path, you are constantly battling that side of you.
Like an alcholic or a drug addict.
Once you open that door you will always be fighting the urges and the pull even if you never turn.
That is what Yoda is saying.

 

[Hex]

Yep. People are reading the "not important to me" part, not the "I guess it is important"

Rey Bridger confirmed

Fixed that for you.
The daughter of a force user and a Mandelorian.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Finally, Ridley said she's not sure Rey is indeed a Jedi.

"I don't know if I am a Jedi… I don't think I am. We've had this debate as to whether Leia is because she uses her Force powers. Just because she's not like, oh I'm going on an adventure like Luke doesn't make her any less Forceful."

Is she saying that Leia uses her Force powers in VIII?

 

[Sephzilla]

Is she saying that Leia uses her Force powers in VIII?

She kind of uses the Force in Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, and Force Awakens

 

[brandonh83]

Is she saying that Leia uses her Force powers in VIII?

More than likely she's just referring to Leia having senses on display, like in ESB and when she collapses in TFA. Probably just poor wording on her part, though that's not to say that that Leia isn't going to use Force powers. It's actually something I think I'd dig, and I'd trust Johnson to get Fisher to handle that well.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Is she saying that Leia uses her Force powers in VIII?

No, she basicly just says that Leia is only very force-sensitive but not as much to be a jedi.

 

[2AdEPT]

Yeah, I like how theyve implied now that Jedi and Sith are not the only paths to Light and Dark. Jedi and Sith are just religions, a standard of practices, that align with the force in their own ways. Just because you believe in and/or use the force, it doesn't automatically mean you're a Jedi.

Much like believing in a higher power doesn't automatically make you a Mormon, you might be a Muslim or a Methodist or just agnostic. The Jedi are just one train of thought, Sith is another, and there could be more. The Force is not confined to the box the Jedi and Sith put it in.

I was ready to annoint the Star Wars writers some of the best philosophers for how to live your life.....until Yoda said, "Only the Sith speak in absolutes."

Spoiler

fucking hypocrit!

 

[Freewheelin']

Obi Wan said that

 

[LegendofLex]

It is not false at all.
Once you start down the dark path, you are constantly battling that side of you.
Like an alcholic or a drug addict.
Once you open that door you will always be fighting the urges and the pull even if you never turn.
That is what Yoda is saying.

The context of this conversation is that "your father is irredeemable and you must kill him to complete your training."

Yoda was clearly mistaken about both.

I just realized that we have spoken before about this subject haha
I guess we're both stuck in our ways.

I mean, it ultimately won't matter unless some future work tries to define what balance in the Force actually means. But judging by TFA, I don't know that I necessarily believe this is on the radar.

 

[CloudyTuba]

I was ready to annoint the Star Wars writers some of the best philosophers for how to live your life.....until [Obi-wan] said, "Only the Sith speak in absolutes."

Spoiler

fucking hypocrit!

Clearly one of the lessons learned from the prequel era and even from certain moments in the OT is that the Jedi order was kind of fucked up. Yoda started to realize this near the end of the Clone Wars but continued to get some things wrong in the OT before his death.

It seems by the time of TFA, Luke has figured out that there is something wrong which is why he's going back to the Jedi's roots to try and figure this mess out.

The Clone Wars series really brought this to light

Very much so, yes. I more meant the prequel era rather than the trilogy. I specifically had some TCW in mind while typing that. I edited to be more accurate.

 

[Hex]

Clearly one of the lessons learned from the prequel trilogy and even from certain moments in the OT is that the Jedi order was kind of fucked up. Yoda started to realize this near the end of the Clone Wars but continued to get some things wrong in the OT before his death.

It seems by the time of TFA, Luke has figured out that there is something wrong which is why he's going back to the Jedi's roots to try and figure this mess out.

The Clone Wars series really brought this to light

 

[Liquidsnake]

What could Snoke have possibly offered Ren that would make him turn his back on his family.

 

[2AdEPT]

Clearly one of the lessons learned from the prequel era and even from certain moments in the OT is that the Jedi order was kind of fucked up. Yoda started to realize this near the end of the Clone Wars but continued to get some things wrong in the OT before his death.

It seems by the time of TFA, Luke has figured out that there is something wrong which is why he's going back to the Jedi's roots to try and figure this mess out.



Very much so, yes. I more meant the prequel era rather than the trilogy. I specifically had some TCW in mind while typing that. I edited to be more accurate.

Okay I get it that Obi wan said that exact line, but Yoda said something similar I think, and even if he didnt, he aint a sith and yet spews absolutes like they are going out of business:
"Only two there are. No more, no less."

THe irony is that in reality, my job involves exactly the type of cognitive therapy (REBT to be exact) which would enable what the Jedi advocate for, i.e. a moderated peaceful slow to anger existence. Anger management 100 involves changing the words you use to be more moderated....for example, you dont have to say "I have to do that", you could get the same effect and say,"...It is extremely important/beneficial for me to do that." Detailing each individual benefit and making things more specific usually describes reality much more acutely than absolutes.

Here is a list of words to avoid and their alternatives:
Got to
Have to
Should
Ought to -> Could; delineate the degree of importance, even break it down to a percentage chance to be even more meticulous. Gold standard: "It would be better if...." -> leads to a goal.

Always - -> most often, usually. High percentage chance.
Never - >> Rarely, sporadic. Lower percentage chance.

Only - - > again its rare that there is only one way to do things..."It might be better if....." or even better if you want to recommend a better gold standard of a way to do something, frame it the form of a question:
"Wouldn't it be better/nice/ fortuitous if we tried it this way?"

So although Obi wan and Yoda are required to be emphatic in their approach to Anakin or whatever as part of the story and to make it an emotional sequence, it might have been better if they tweaked a few words here and there to be less hypocritcal of the language normally dealt with in higher frequencies by the Sith.

As a general guide, avoid generalities, but speak in possibilities, probabilities, and percentage chances and you will find people may like your delivery much better than if you overgeneralize and obfuscate reality through overly extreme usage.

 

[-griffy-]

What could Snoke have possibly offered Ren that would make him turn his back on his family.

 

[Liquidsnake]

^^^^^

I mean if he was a Vader Fanboy, thern my god he got to learn from his son. His mother his father there all famous.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Has there been any theories on Snoke not even being a physical person?

 

[BFIB]

So we know Kylo is obsessed to reach Vaders status. But I'm wondering if Kylo knows that Anakin went back to the light?

If not, could that be Hayden's part in VIII? Possibly appearing as a force ghost?