smokeandmirrors
Banned
this guy is just the best.
he seems to be enjoying himself in all aspects it's great
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Star Wars Episode VIII Production Thread (Principal Photography Complete)
- Thread starter Quick
- Start date
he seems to be enjoying himself in all aspects it's great
"Actually, let's not go to Moraband. It is a silly place."
Bobby Roberts
Banned
We don't.
Hell, one of my pet theories is that the reason Luke bailed is that he fucking murdered them all upon returning to the temple, only sparing Kylo because it's his nephew.
Damn, that would be pretty great.
Maybe that showed Kylo how powerful hate could be, pushing him even faster to the dark side.
WadiumArcadium
Member
It was definitely in the past, they even referred to that scene as the 'Forceback'. But yeah, there's no guarantee they'll show up.
I've thought about it but would Snoke still refer to Ben as Master of the Knights of Ren if they're all six feet under? I'd love the twist that he gave in to his anger and killed them though.
Good point. Love the last line; there's no excuse for not treading new ground with these next two films now.
I can see TFA following ANH to bring the OT magic and feel back to fans, and I have less of a problem with the two movies' similarities the more I see EP7, but NOW is the time to create a fully original SW film.
Don't get me wrong, I love TFA and there are a TON of fantastic scenes in the 2:15 ultimately released.
I just want more scenes that really WOW us and we can quote when we look back at the trilogy in decades. I want those couple of lines of timeless dialogue that inspire in new and creative ways, that we think about when listing our favorite cinematic moments.
And I think it's entirely possible, much more so than before. Fans have shown they're back on board; now is the time to try something different and veer off course a bit.
Crazy to think those scenes might be filming in this very moment.
...and not just the Ren.
...but the women...and the children too
They were animals! And I slaughtered them like animals!
I HATE THEM!
Like others have mentioned, he's got Captain America/Indepndence Day kamikaze written all over him.
Lifejumper
Member
Maybe he was tempted by the dark side again? Thats what makes him search for the first jedi temple, to go back to the basics.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
POETRY
RHYMING
RHYMING
brandonh83
Banned
The single most dissapointing thing for me would be if Luke is not a bit fucked up, after all this spiel about "Who is Luke Skywalker Really" and all the stuff that has happened, I want him damaged and different, but with the old Luke underneath.
So help me god if the movie starts and hes just training Rey like nothing happened...
So help me god if the movie starts and hes just training Rey like nothing happened...
brandonh83
Banned
Maybe the reason he goes under the moniker of Kylo Ren is because
Ben Ren
I'm hoping his internet popularity will save him!
That's an interesting theory and shows promise, but Snoke refers to Kylo as the "master of the Knights of Ren", in present tense. That's gotta be a a clear indication that they're alive and well, right?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
They've baited us enough by showing them being all badass and shit in the trailer for TFA and then not putting them in the actual film aside from that one scene. If they're not in VIII or are all already dead, it would be a massive waste of potential.
brandonh83
Banned
Apparently the internet didn't need to save him before
Oh you're absolutely right yet it's still no guarantee. Look at Phasma. Though I think she'll be more prominent in the next one. No guarantee either, however.
Liquidsnake
Banned
This I like.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I would want to see the characterization of lonely old-Luke prior to Rey's appearance. This further fueled by the concept stuff I found in the TFA art book as some solemn, zombie-like wanderer who just doesn't care anymore.
One of my favorite images was him laying in the middle of an Imperial wreckage, letting himself be buried in sand.
Apparently the internet didn't need to save him before
Oh you're absolutely right yet it's still no guarantee. Look at Phasma. Though I think she'll be more prominent in the next one. No guarantee either, however.
Haha yeah I read the article about that.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Yeah, that's one of my theories too. Gives a good reason why he disappeared.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I think so too, but Snoke could be taunting him in a way, as he does when hinting Kylo still has feelings for his parents.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Only a sith deals in absolutes,
The Elite
BOSS
I agree, just pointing out that Abrams has straight up said things will veer away from more poetry. I was alluding to the discussion on that page of how the new characters could parallel things done in the OT, which is not at all what we should want or expect. It would be such a waste to set up this new troupe of characters and then do that.
brandonh83
Banned
Oscar had too much swagger and Kennedi Club knew it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He has to be. You can tell he's kinda fucked up when he turns around. He's not necessarily happy to see her, either. Bittersweet at best.
Something fucked up caused him to exile himself from everyone else in his life, and the galaxy in general, allowing the rise of the First Order in his absence. Is his temple getting slaughtered by one of his students, a student who happens to be blood-relation to him, enough to cause that? Maybe. Maybe that's his reaction to that tragedy.
Or maybe his reaction was to succumb to the dark side in a way he didn't during his fight with his Father, and slaughter ever single Knight of Ren he saw save for Ben, who he let go, because family. And realizing how dangerous he is caused him to run for the sake of his family, and the galaxy in general. It's not like Luke hasn't shown a tendency to separate himself from those he cares about to keep them safe. That's one of his major motivations throughout Return of the Jedi.
Considering large chunks of Rey's vision seem to be more or less the history of that saber (aside from Rey's being left on Jakku) I think it's possible when Kylo snaps his head up and looks at Rey in the vision, what he's really looking at is Luke.
(I also thought it possible that Snoke was clowning Kylo a little with "You? Master of the Knights of Ren?" like you would if you were the CEO of a company talking shit to middle management at a department heads meeting. "Oh look, Home Electronics thinks he has something to contribute.")
Yeah, I was just trying to elaborate further along the direction you were pointing, not trying to correct/disagree. Apologies about that, shoulda been clearer.
Future PhaZe
Member
Ben will turn back to the light. Important to note that Snoke was manipulating him before he was even an adult. The book states that in TFA it was the first time Han saw Ben as a grown man. He felt weakened after killing Han, and the light side calls to him unbidden of anyones influence.
The thing I'm most concerned about is Snoke being separated from Palpatine in terms of the type of character he is. The book states that he tries to influence Rey to kill Ben, like Palpatine did to Anakin with Dooku and Luke with Vader. It's a Sith thing and "get the most powerful apprentice" is getting old.
I'm hoping he just wants the strongest Jedi that he can body snatch Orochimaru style or something because I'm pretty done with the moronic rule of two stuff.
The thing I'm most concerned about is Snoke being separated from Palpatine in terms of the type of character he is. The book states that he tries to influence Rey to kill Ben, like Palpatine did to Anakin with Dooku and Luke with Vader. It's a Sith thing and "get the most powerful apprentice" is getting old.
I'm hoping he just wants the strongest Jedi that he can body snatch Orochimaru style or something because I'm pretty done with the moronic rule of two stuff.
brandonh83
Banned
There's gonna be a boatload of similarities on varying levels, but hopefully the execution is neat. That's all that matters. Despite TFA's similarities it still felt like its own thing, at least to me, due to the execution and how it actually played out. I don't mind callbacks and similarities as long as its well done and different enough.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nah. He had his chance. He's been given multiple chances. The best of which strolled out onto that bridge with him.
He killed his last chance and let him fall into the center of a weapon of mass genocide.
This guy isn't coming back. He's likely going to murder Snoke and assume his position.
I'm more attracted to Ben killing Snoke as a hostile takeover rather than a form redemption. It makes his journey to the darkside all the more interesting but also, it can reveal Snoke to be just as much of a Sidious-poser as Ben is to Vader (e.g. Snoke could be using that stupid artificial nanomachine-Force shit from the canon comics).
FUBAR McDangles
Member
I avoided all spoilers for VII like the plague and ended up pretty disappointed in the final product. It was good at what it did, but I just thought it retread old stuff way too much.
Definitely going to follow along production of VIII. Hopefully it ends up being a better movie. Or at least introduce new things.
As for the whole Ben redemption thing? I personally feel like Snoke is going to end up being the ultimate bad guy. Maybe Rey, Finn, Poe, and Ben all team up to take him down, but I doubt very much that Ben ends up turning 100% good. Not after he killed his own father.
Maybe it ends with him just wandering off to be the loner he is.
Definitely going to follow along production of VIII. Hopefully it ends up being a better movie. Or at least introduce new things.
As for the whole Ben redemption thing? I personally feel like Snoke is going to end up being the ultimate bad guy. Maybe Rey, Finn, Poe, and Ben all team up to take him down, but I doubt very much that Ben ends up turning 100% good. Not after he killed his own father.
Maybe it ends with him just wandering off to be the loner he is.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Its so funny, I keep hearing the novel adds nothing, yet time and time again I read things that make it seem like it add's a whole lot. WTF.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This is exactly where I think that character is going. People are just assuming that dude is Emperor level, as opposed to an opportunist filling a vaccuum. It's why Ben is so important to him: Legitimacy issues.
They both need that link to Vader/Palpatine in order to feel potent.
People are twigging to the Wizard of Oz parallels w/ Snoke for a reason.
Yeah, I think that was very much Ren bypassing his last exit ramp. It's not an accident that Rey and Finn go to see it happen as well - everyone is on the same page with who he is. We're seeing the formation of a formidable antagonist, and that test was a one way trip down that path.
(Also hoping he axes Snoke, given the warning/foreshadowing by Han.)
I can see Ren actually starting to live up to his potential, and seizing the opportunity to take out Snoke when he realizes he's surpassed his master.
I'm hoping that's what comes from the seed Han planted on the bridge. "Snoke is using you for your power. When he gets what he wants, he'll crush you. You know it's true."
Future PhaZe
Member
Nah
Still pretty sure Snoke is Plageuis--and if thats the case he's probably stronger than Palpatine.
If that's the case he can't be "killed". You'd have to need a way to banish his force ghost, and I think that's why Luke is searching for old jedi secrets.
Still pretty sure Snoke is Plageuis--and if thats the case he's probably stronger than Palpatine.
If that's the case he can't be "killed". You'd have to need a way to banish his force ghost, and I think that's why Luke is searching for old jedi secrets.
Abrams was asked that at a panel (actually, Kasdan was, but Abrams answered) - the answer was a firm "no".
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He's not though
Future PhaZe
Member
WadiumArcadium
Member
Sith can't become Force ghosts.
Count Dookkake
Member
.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Darth Vegas?
Lord of Castamere
Member
How many Horcruxes does Plageuis have?
I can see it now.
"My father was right - you were only using me. But not completely...because you are certainly far from crushing me."
Suddenly
Kylo Ren force lightning
don't know why people keep bringing up the JJ thing
No idea what this referrs to.
I agree, but also can't see them doing it. They're going the approach of taking some of the ideas from the EU (such as one of Han/Leia's kids going dark, IIRC), not grabbing characters from the EU to drop into the new series. That would be kind of awful really.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Because they've been paying attention.
Unlike you, who thinks just posting a picture of Khan means anything in regards to Lucasfilm's current plans.
Snoke isn't Plagueis. That shit is dead.
bury it!
Consider this mercy.
He's suggesting that because Abrams had production lie about the identity of John Harrison in the run up to Into Darkness' release, that he's doing the same thing regarding Darth Plagueis, even though Abrams has since apologized for that subterfuge, and acknowledged it hurt his film, and both he and Kathleen Kennedy have told press that such shenanigans would not be undergone at Lucasfilm.
One problem I see with this theory is that Luke had already faced the ultimate test with the dark side (trapped and tempted by his father AND the Emperor with nowhere to turn but become an evil apprentice) and passed. He actually tells the audience that the Emperor had failed and that he had become a Jedi, like his father. The entire trilogy was leading up to this point as foreseen by Yoda and his training in ESB. Yoda knew that his final test would be to face his father and conquer his inner dark side; he knew that once he passed, he would be a Jedi.
The trilogy ends in a closed way where Luke is the hero who triumphs in the face of evil.
Your proposed theory sounds cool and I wouldn't be opposed to it if done correctly, but in a lot of ways, I can see it directly contradicting the character development and overarching story from the original trilogy. It almost seems like a retcon to me, but then again, continuing with a story that takes place after ROTJ feels that way as well. Episode 6 ended in a way that left nothing open for interpretation, no holes left to fill, no loose ends to tie.
I guess it feels a little strange to me no matter how it's sliced. I almost wish they would have left the OT's story alone and that it was more of a few whisper than a conversation in the ST.
But we'll have to wait and see how the trilogy plays out before judgement is made.
brandonh83
Banned
Anakin/Vader was great because we discovered his layers along the way; Kylo is the direct opposite in that we've already seen his layers, but getting the layers and then stopping there and having less development across two more movies which could be used to make him even more interesting would be kind of a bummer I think. I'm not saying you can't make a purely evil dickbag interesting and further developed, but it's tricky to do so while keeping the audience at least a bit sympathetic.
I want to expand on that before I sound crazy. Kylo was pretty bad in VII, but it was written to where you feel like he has personal reasons and demons for his actions, much like Anakin, so he isn't this 100% despicable character. He was clearly conflicted through the entire thing; hell I'd argue he was still conflicted during the saber duel. I think he could've killed Finn had he really wanted and that slice up the back seemed very calculated. Kylo was super pissed at him for his defection, yet still didn't just immediately kill him. And he could have if he wanted. So while he had just committed a murder and apparently in turn committed to the dark side, I don't think he was fully over there.
You may disagree with this and that's totally great as we're all speculating, but while I'm pissed at Kylo for what he did, when I think about it and take certain things like that into consideration, I don't think they're going to make it that simple. He did something terrible and then injured Finn, but... again, only injured Finn. It's possible that he thought he had killed him, but I don't know. After that defection you'd think Kylo would have enough justification to cut his fucking head off on the spot, yet he toyed with him for a bit and didn't go all-in. This tells me something. I realize he was also injured by the bow blast, but if he was really that upset with Finn and really wanted to kill him, I think it would've happened on the spot.
I just think Kylo was a fantastic character because there was more to him and I don't know that I would love it if he was just evil going forward without much else to say about it. We could learn more about his past that would help add more, but I really hope they find a way to keep him as interesting as he was in this one. That's pretty much all I ask, regardless of the direction they go in and I think they're good enough storytellers to keep it compelling so here's hoping. Will he get darker and more evil? Probably, so I'm not totally disagreeing, I'm just saying I get more out of the character than "I'm super evil now" and I think there's gonna be more to it.