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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]

C

CloudyTuba

Member
Doctoglethorpe said:
Why can it not simply be that he detected a well of potential instead of actual strength? An open door as opposed to all the closed ones that most people have. That would open up far more interesting metaphisical ideas.



So the Skywalker family could have had wider wells, larger doors, for which to stick their hands through and manipulate the force. That wouldn't put a limit on what he can achieve, just perhaps make it a bit easier to achieve it. Like how real life genetics work. A mutation, an abnormality. Not simply the luck of the draw on an entirely normal, unfair, and uninteresting system.

Its so easy to come up with different reasons for things happening in fiction, idk why you guys don't exercise that ability.
Click to expand...

I like the way you think! That's right in line with what I always assumed since the first time I saw Star Wars.

Another reason why Vader might have been able to sense Luke strongly in IV is because of Luke being his son. There could have been a spiritual connection there that Vader wasn't aware of yet that made a large blip on his force radar.

BobbyRoberts said:
Practically, we're likely not going to hear about Midichlorians solely because there's no Jedi Order around to use their existence as a screening method for new recruits. And since that practice died with Order 66, there's absolutely no reason for that knowledge to have filtered through the last eight decades to whoever's still left.

If anything, the only person who still knows anything about it would likely be Kylo Ren, who is big on cosplaying as a member of a dead religion. I'd imagine he's super-into nerdy little factoids like that.
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Yep youre right.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
Doctoglethorpe said:
Why can it not simply be that he detected a well of potential instead of actual strength? An open door as opposed to all the closed ones that most people have. That would open up far more interesting metaphisical ideas.
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That doesn't really make sense to me.
Now, i know some systems that do that but i am not a fan of them, as they basically mean character x with strong potential will be fucking strong, no matter what and when they do that (even noobs are powerful), it sets the power level to stone before anything actually happens. In the wrong way... though perhaps this is the fault of the creators, not the system itself. But i have not seen it done well.

I do think that innate strength in the Force doesn't mean they cannot grow in it. So Luke and Anakin are always strong, but they could be stronger, and/or another being could grow to be as strong.
The films did not delve into the limits and capabilities of the ability to wield the Force really. High midichlorian count could be interpreted as being able to listen and use the Force easily, which in turn could mean they can become incredible powerful... easily, rather than having to work hard and long, perhaps longer than one actually lives. In such case, individuals are not hard-limited, unlike a typical power level scenario.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
freethought said:
Midichlorians are stupid.



But no, blood tests.
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Ah but perhaps the pre-Clone Wars Yoda was someone who took a midichlorian count to mean far more than it actually did.

I kind of interpret the whole counting-midichlorians thing as a way for the Jedi to make themselves seem better. "Hey, i got more of this stuff than you, so i'm better, lol".
Indeed, the whole pre-Order-66 Order was rather complacent and not really spiritual... which can be used to explain why the Order fell. They had no faith.

The midichlorians can exist in Star Wars (sequels) but also be meaningless. They were of use only to the Jedi, and no one has no way of knowing if they actually did what the Jedi thought they did. Perhaps a high count is kind of dangerous actually, easy to use Force may lead one to the Dark Side faster than one who has to work for everything.

And even if a minimum count is required to be able to use the Force... well, isn't it implied that the Force controls people as well, and nothing says it requires a certain number of midichlorians. (A lucky individual could be someone who is controlled by the Force yet never know it.)

Sure, they're kind of pointless addition as they are to Star Wars, but perhaps Lucas did mean them to be a mistake of the Jedi? Would not be the first time when an idea is poorly communicated in a medium, left half-assed or something.

EDIT I have no issues with the midichlorian concept itself, but i do have a problem with the execution. Currently, i have to make my own explanation for them, as you see above, or they end up being really stupid. But unfortunately, i have no idea if that is what Lucas intended... that is, if he intended people should make their own interpretation, or if my explanation is what he was going for.
Either he should have stated directly his idea, or leave things intentionally clearly ambiguous so that people have to make up their own mind, as it is the midichlorians manage to be kind of clear thing that ends up being dropped, yet feel as if Lucas intended to explore them more.
 
F

freethought

Member
Woorloog said:
Ah but perhaps the pre-Clone Wars Yoda was someone who took a midichlorian count to mean far more than it actually did.

I kind of interpret the whole counting-midichlorians thing as a way for the Jedi to make themselves seem better. "Hey, i got more of this stuff than you, so i'm better, lol".
Indeed, the whole pre-Order-66 Order was rather complacent and not really spiritual... which can be used to explain why the Order fell. They had no faith.

The midichlorians can exist in Star Wars (sequels) but also be meaningless. They were of use only to the Jedi, and no one has no way of knowing if they actually did what the Jedi thought they did. Perhaps a high count is kind of dangerous actually, easy to use Force may lead one to the Dark Side faster than one who has to work for everything.

And even if a minimum count is required to be able to use the Force... well, isn't it implied that the Force controls people as well, and nothing says it requires a certain number of midichlorians. (A lucky individual could be someone who is controlled by the Force yet never know it.)

Sure, they're kind of pointless addition as they are to Star Wars, but perhaps Lucas did mean them to be a mistake of the Jedi? Would not be the first time when an idea is poorly communicated in a medium, left half-assed or something.
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I'm pretty sure Lucas just saw them as his own mistake, hence excising them completely from the sequels. Jar Jar too (though not quite as thoroughly). Also whatever the fuck the 'Living Force' was meant to be. Ooh and the Trade Federation, Podracing, having slavery be a thing which exists, those yellow Naboo Starfighters they tried to make popular, the STAP (wasn't this the first toy released?), weird puppet Yoda (now completely removed from history I believe), Captain Panaka, those viewscreens that looked like they were made of liquid metal, naked C-3PO, there's probably more.

Man, George Lucas must have really hated The Phantom Menace. I mean, not as much as I did, but still.
 
B

btrboyev

Member
Trade Federarion still existed in all 3 prequels as did the main characters in it. Pod racing and slavery were still shown on Tattoine in Episode 2. The nabo ships were shown again in Episode 2 in the film intro. The view screens were directly ripped from Flash Gordon.

I think you are stretching in some of your observations. Lucas heard the gripes about Jar Jar and greatly reduced his role. I think that's the only thing he really took away from Episode 1.
 
F

freethought

Member
btrboyev said:
Trade Federarion still existed in all 3 prequels as did the main characters in it. Pod racing and slavery were still shown on Tattoine in Episode 2. The nabo ships were shown again in Episode 2 in the film intro. The view screens were directly ripped from Flash Gordon.

I think you are stretching in some of your observations. Lucas heard the gripes about Jar Jar and greatly reduced his role. I think that's the only thing he really took away from Episode 1.
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Not that my post was meant to be taken particularly seriously and not that fleeting glimpses of these things really undermine my point in any way, but wasn't the only reference to slavery in Episode II that Shmi (the only other slave we've ever met) had been rescued from slavery years earlier? After that, no more slavery! Ever! Except for Leia being Jabba's sex slave I guess. Or is Jabba being a pervert with a humanoid fetish no longer canon?
 
D

Dr Prob

Banned
freethought said:
I'm pretty sure Lucas just saw them as his own mistake, hence excising them completely from the sequels.
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But he didn't. Palps brings them up at the sperm opera.

They're supposed to be tied into the circumstances behind Anakin's mysterious virgin birth but it just seems to me as if one could tackle all that without bringing midichlorians into it at all. In the end you just end up turning the mystical and ambiguous into something clinical in service of an idea that you ended up leaving ambiguous anyway.

BobbyRoberts said:
He's already begun the rewriting of his personal history on this event. Only took him just over 2 years, too. Not bad.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. This was the original plan and had been since back in 1974.
 
F

freethought

Member
Dr Prob said:
But he didn't. Palps brings them up at the sperm opera.
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Yeah? I think I remember the scene, talking about his old master and cheating death, yeah?

I love that, because once Anakin actually turns, Palps is all like "Yeah, I don't know shit about it, sorry bro" and young Vader is just like "Yeah, that's cool, it's literally the only reason I joined you but whatevs"

edit: Oh yeah, Darth Plagueis, haha. That is a name an adult came up with.

edit 2: And Count Dooku, General Grievious, Elan Sleazebaggano and my personal favourite Kit Fisto. Oh and did he come up with Sheev?

George Lucas, answering all the questions we never asked and are literally begging him to stop answering.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
freethought said:
Yeah? I think I remember the scene, talking about his old master and cheating death, yeah?

I love that, because once Anakin actually turns, Palps is all like "Yeah, I don't know shit about it, sorry bro" and young Vader is just like "Yeah, that's cool, it's literally the only reason I joined you but whatevs"

edit: Oh yeah, Darth Plagueis, haha. That is a name an adult came up with.

edit 2: And Count Dooku, General Grievious, Elan Sleazebaggano and my personal favourite Kit Fisto. Oh and did he come up with Sheev?

George Lucas, answering all the questions we never asked and are literally begging him to stop answering.
Click to expand...
Star Wars is meant to be a 1930's space opera.The names fit. Without knowing it since you were a kid names like Obi-Wan Kenobi, Darth Vader, Porkins, Jabba the Hutt, etc are beyond silly. Come on a last name called Skywalker? Silly.

Well other than Sheev, that one is just bad. The rest fit the cheesy 30's space opera style just fine.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
Doctoglethorpe said:
Thats not how real life works though... You are not born smart or strong or artistic. Genetics can lay a bit of foundation, but most of what you are is earned through experience. There is no artist without influence, there is no athlete without physical training, there is no intellectual without study. It may come a bit easier to people based on their genetics, but its not a big difference outside rare mutations.

But apparently thats not how the force works. You're born with your limit and ease of reaching it predetermined. People are simply born superior or inferior, and nothing they do in life can change it. That sucks.
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I said "potential". I didn't say people were "born" smart or strong or skilled.

I guess it depends what constitutes a big difference in your mind. If a space alien showed up and watched me play soccer, and Lionel Messi play soccer, It might not look like a huge difference to them, but obviously to us it's pretty damn massive. And it's not like I could have just practiced more to become a world class player. Messi wasn't "born" a world class player either. And you can't say Messi falls into the ultra rare mutation category either; numerous pro soccer players can hold their own with him.

Midichlorian counts are the equivalent of the genetic groundwork people have to determine relative ability to master various skills, etc. I don't really see the problem.
 
F

freethought

Member
Cheebo said:
Star Wars is meant to be a 1930's space opera.The names fit. Without knowing it since you were a kid names like Obi-Wan Kenobi, Darth Vader, Porkins, Jabba the Hutt, etc are beyond silly. Come on a last name called Skywalker? Silly.

Well other than Sheev, that one is just bad. The rest fit the cheesy 30's space opera style just fine.
Click to expand...

What's so silly about Obi Wan Kenobi?

If we're doing daft names from the OT then there are far better choices:

Salacious Crumb, Biggs Darklighter, Chewbacca, Sand People, Wicket the Ewok, Bib Fortuna, Admiral Ackbar, Mon Mothma (who sounds like she's about to attack Tokyo), General Nadine (accompanied by Colonel Penelope), the Death Star (it's not a star), the fact that there is a planet called Dantooine and a planet called Tatooine, the wookiee homeworld Kashyyyyyk (i believe named in the Holiday special, no?). I mean, yeah the list goes on. George Lucas is terrible at names.

But no one ever giggled when they heard the name Darth Vader, the same is not true of Count Dooku.

edit: As always though, the worst offender is the expanded universe, offering us the very worst name in all of star wars; the clone of Luke Skywalker, Luuke.
 
U

unholyrevenger72

Banned
Doctoglethorpe said:
Thats not how real life works though... You are not born smart or strong or artistic.
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Actually you are. A person born with talent has a much higher skill ceiling than somebody that simply works hard. How fast a person can run is determined by how high their belly button is. Child prodigies with 200 IQ's don't receive any training prior to when a parent discovers their child is that intelligent.
 
R

Rootbeer

Banned
crackhead_bob said:
So are midichlorians being dropped altogether, or will Abrams find some way to transition them out of the plot?
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Midi-chlorians were mentioned not just in Phantom Menace but also in Revenge of the Sith and several Clone Wars episodes. And that's just the canon references, there are many Legends references.

It is part of the canon and isn't going anywhere. But since it is an aspect that is very easy to not have to acknowledge, as well as there being story reasons why it may not be necessary for characters to know about them, it may be some while before a writer or director decides they want to bring it up again.

But it will happen.

Would not be surprised at all if it is brought up in Star Wars Rebels at some point, if it gets to last more than two or three seasons.

I can see it now. Marvel releases Star Wars issue # whatever in which Luke discovers a holocron and learns what midi-chlorians are sometime between Ep V and VI.

The fanbase is going into full meltdown mode.
 
J

jelly

Member
I would go with never mentioning them again and stick with the mystical force. People will get conditioned to it quickly and that will be that.

Unless Disney want blood/bone marrow plot devices for more force powered characters. They be stealing my force.
 
C

CorrisD

badchoiceboobies
crackhead_bob said:
So are midichlorians being dropped altogether, or will Abrams find some way to transition them out of the plot?
Click to expand...

They are canon, they were a way of Jedi to detect potential force users so they could take them and train them while they were young, which is why they had no use in the original trilogy because they weren't around to do it. It was a concept Lucas came up with long before the prequel trilogy, and they won't need to be mentioned unless they bring back the same practice or it is brought up for any new force users.
 
Stiflers Mom

Stiflers Mom

Banned
You can say a lot of bad things about movies and series that Abrams was involved with, but imo he always "gets" what a franchise is about.

So, I am sure there will be no midichlorians in TFA.
 
B

BrassDragon

Member
CorrisD said:
They are canon, they were a way of Jedi to detect potential force users so they could take them and train them while they were young, which is why they had no use in the original trilogy because they weren't around to do it. It was a concept Lucas came up with long before the prequel trilogy, and they won't need to be mentioned unless they bring back the same practice or it is brought up for any new force users.
Click to expand...

It just feels silly that the Jedi needed tech to detect Force potential. I mean, they sense things, that's their thing, that's what they do. Apparently Vader can tell "the Force is strong with this one" by focusing on a single pilot in the middle of a dogfight.

I'm sure it's all perfectly Lucas-approved but it's just a bad idea that undermines one of the most iconic aspects of the saga.
 
V

void666

Banned
freethought said:
What's so silly about Obi Wan Kenobi?

If we're doing daft names from the OT then there are far better choices:

Salacious Crumb, Biggs Darklighter, Chewbacca, Sand People, Wicket the Ewok, Bib Fortuna, Admiral Ackbar, Mon Mothma (who sounds like she's about to attack Tokyo), General Nadine (accompanied by Colonel Penelope), the Death Star (it's not a star), the fact that there is a planet called Dantooine and a planet called Tatooine, the wookiee homeworld Kashyyyyyk (i believe named in the Holiday special, no?). I mean, yeah the list goes on. George Lucas is terrible at names.

But no one ever giggled when they heard the name Darth Vader, the same is not true of Count Dooku.

edit: As always though, the worst offender is the expanded universe, offering us the very worst name in all of star wars; the clone of Luke Skywalker, Luuke.
Click to expand...

Fun fact: In brazilian portuguese Dooku sounds like "do cú". Something like "from ass". So they changed to Dookan around here.
 
K

Kworn

Banned
Anton Sugar said:
Is Boyega's character half wookie or something?
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
D

DodgerSan

Member
freethought said:
What's so silly about Obi Wan Kenobi?

If we're doing daft names from the OT then there are far better choices:

Salacious Crumb, Biggs Darklighter, Chewbacca, Sand People, Wicket the Ewok, Bib Fortuna, Admiral Ackbar, Mon Mothma (who sounds like she's about to attack Tokyo), General Nadine (accompanied by Colonel Penelope), the Death Star (it's not a star), the fact that there is a planet called Dantooine and a planet called Tatooine, the wookiee homeworld Kashyyyyyk (i believe named in the Holiday special, no?). I mean, yeah the list goes on. George Lucas is terrible at names.

But no one ever giggled when they heard the name Darth Vader, the same is not true of Count Dooku.

edit: As always though, the worst offender is the expanded universe, offering us the very worst name in all of star wars; the clone of Luke Skywalker, Luuke.
Click to expand...

/engage nerd voice, and excessive hyperventilating:

"It's actually General Madine, so your Penelope joke falls down".

But yeah. The PT was even worse, we have Poof, Koon and Yaddle - and that's just on the council. And don't even get me started on Sleazebaggano...

For the best of the worst of the EU check out the Podcast "Star Wars in Character". These guys love the franchise, but rip some of the more ridiculous stuff (Ghoel was a favourite of mine). Well worth a listen.
 
B

Blader

Member
To be fair, coming up with names that don't sound incredibly fake is really hard. It's the worst part of screenwriting imo. Thinking up names for aliens and planets and shit that only exists in your imagination but sound good and natural has to be near impossible.
 
F

freethought

Member
Blader said:
To be fair, coming up with names that don't sound incredibly fake is really hard. It's the worst part of screenwriting imo. Thinking up names for aliens and planets and shit that only exists in your imagination but sound good and natural has to be near impossible.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the hardest part of any RPG is the 20 minutes you spend trying to come up with something genuinely good for your character name until you invariably and perhaps inevitably continue the many and varied adventures of Farts McButtcrack.

I hate you Farts, I hate you so much.
 
C

crackhead_bob

Member
I know this is said millions of times, but I sometimes wonder if Lucas was even aware of how awfully scripted his prequels were. He apparently had a hand in approving the material in the Clone War series, and they turned out decent, even better produced than the prequels. Does anyone have an idea as to why he decided to write and direct the prequels when he was in over his head? Looking back at Jake Lloyd's performance, I would say it was almost unethical to put that boy on the spot and not try to finagle a more decent performance out of him.
 
P

Perfect Cha0s

Member
Zulithe said:
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/0...ies-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens-set.html
https://uk.yahoo.com/movies/warwick-davis-shows-off-darth-vader-selfie-from-108158124734.html

Vader.jpg


Hmm....

a selfie taken "on set"... with Vader? Could it be the rumors are true? Or is he intentionally messing with the fans. :) He is quite a joker...
Click to expand...
If there were any chance that these pictures had even the slightest spoilers, he'd probably have a team of lawyers up his asscrack for breaking some sort of NDA.

I'm not buying it. I'm guessing these are statues from Lucasfilm or something. Nothing to do with The Force Awakens, anyway.
 
R

Rootbeer

Banned
Well the bit that gets me is in every article about this it continually states on the set, not at the Lucasfilm offices... but obviously a statue or something is a very likely explanation.

It's still interesting!
 
P

Perfect Cha0s

Member
Zulithe said:
Well the bit that gets me is in every article about this it continually states on the set, not at the Lucasfilm offices... but obviously a statue or something is a very likely explanation.

It's still interesting!
Click to expand...

Yeah, definitely. I'm still going to assume that this is just something to throw us off. With how tight-lipped everyone has to be with this movie, I don't think they'd let Warwick Davis spoil something as major as the return of Darth Vader - with pictures - on a TV show like this.
 
I

inm8num2

Member
Now would be a great time to do another season of Life Is Short with the new SW movies as the backdrop for Davis getting a slight career resurgence. :p
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
There were rumors of a
flashback sequence with vader which would easily explain the picture.
But what is not easily explained would be an actor so lightheartedly leaking such major information, so I assume he's just being silly after all.
 
G

GorillaWithDandruff

Member
I swear some of the people arguing in here are beginning to sound like midi-chlorian apologists which is NOT COOL guys. >:/
jk jk opinions and all that yeah yeah......but seriously come on

Doctoglethorpe said:
Yeah I'm hoping some Sith (Darksider, whatever) is gonna get a scene in the movie where somebody asks him about midichlorians and he just laughs, shakes his head, and calls the old Jedi order stupid.
Click to expand...

Oh god I would smile so fucking hard if they did that.

freethought said:
Still, the dude wrote Regarding Henry so he's alright in my book.
Click to expand...

cmifE6X.gif


freethought said:
Yoda said:
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.
Click to expand...

But no, blood tests.
Click to expand...

This is gold.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
He would never be allowed to release the picture if it was a real major spoiler. Most likely just a Vader statue/replica.
 
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