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[Cheebo]

It also likely would be very difficult to have a Lucas controlled first film in a trilogy then do the second 2 without him. Trilogies like this need consistency.

It is also intriguing that this is further proof from what we have heard before, that the sequel trilogy had nothing to do with Disney. That Lucas decided it was time for VII-IX before even considering selling the company to Disney. That the sequels made the company a lot more appealing but they were going forward regardless who may or may not be interested in snapping up the company.

It worked out for the best I think, selling prior to the trilogy rather than after a film was already in the can is the best clean break. I just wish that he had time to figure out how to get The Clone Wars production wrapped up before the Disney fell into place sooner than he was planning. Oh well.

 

[Rootbeer]

Lucas did the right thing, most definitely.

Still, I don't count Lucas out entirely even in his advanced age. He is the originator of so many of the great things about Star Wars, having created it and all. Hero with a Thousand Faces, yadda yadda, yes, we know all about that, but he is the mind that brought it all together in the magical way that transpired.

I hope that he still had some great ideas yet to pass on and we'll be seeing those enrich the entire Star Wars Saga as it moves forward. I'm assuming Disney acquired all of those unused ideas as part of the deal.

 

[Moff]

I hope that he still had some great ideas yet to pass on and we'll be seeing those enrich the entire Star Wars Saga as it moves forward. I'm assuming Disney acquired all of those unused ideas as part of the deal.

 

[Sectorseven]

That article is still kind of vague and only confirms what he's been saying for years: that he had a basic framework in his head for a followup trilogy. Ever since the prequels wrapped he's been adamant about being done with Star Wars, in everything from press tours to TMZ interviews. Now Disney buys Lucasfilm and announces a new film and he's like "oh yeah, I had this in the works the whole time."

 

[Bobby Roberts]

George Lucas said in USA Today just yesterday his intention was to do The Force Awakens and sell Lucasfilm AFTER that but Disney came along earlier and so he sold the company earlier than planned.

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/01/g...ng-star-wars-force-awakens-selling-lucasfilm/

He's already begun the rewriting of his personal history on this event. Only took him just over 2 years, too. Not bad.

In the original version of this story, he pitched Disney, not the other way around.

 

[DodgerSan]

Lucas destroyed the mythos with the prequels not expanded it. He set ridiculous precedents and put stupid ass rules and laws in place that became permanent in the history and lore of the series that forced everyone who ever wanted to contribute or add into SW to have to abide by and work around. Don't wanna sound like an EU fanboy but the writers and artists working in the EU have contributed more to SW post-RotJ than Lucas ever has. Sith, the Force, and the SW universe in general had been explained and handled much better and long before Phantom Menace poked it's little head out.

I'd been happily fine accepting EU as completely non-canon if the prequels were retconned as well. FUCK Lucas. >:|

Are you pitching for a writing gig on one of the spinoffs?

 

[Blader]

It also likely would be very difficult to have a Lucas controlled first film in a trilogy then do the second 2 without him. Trilogies like this need consistency.

Wasn't he pretty hands off on Empire after the script was done?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Kinda. He had a minor freakout and tried to "save" the movie in the editing room and almost ruined it with a shitty cut, but came to his senses and let Kurtz/Kershner finish post their way.

 

[Cheebo]

That article is still kind of vague and only confirms what he's been saying for years: that he had a basic framework in his head for a followup trilogy. Ever since the prequels wrapped he's been adamant about being done with Star Wars, in everything from press tours to TMZ interviews. Now Disney buys Lucasfilm and announces a new film and he's like "oh yeah, I had this in the works the whole time."

He wasn't done after the prequels though. He was very hands on with The Clone Wars. He lead the writer summits every year and every script had to go through him.

 

[Dragonborn]

I find myself swayed by your point. I can see Disney really not wanting to de-canonize the current kid-friendly TV show, the most active part of the 4 billion property they were buying. It would be silly business-wise to do so, actually..... especially circa 2012/2013 when it was the current face of modern Star Wars.

I don't know if that means they have immediate plans to cash in on that... but you certainly don't strike it from existence, like you are free to do so with culturally irrelevant books and games from the 90s.



This is where I divert from you... I don't think the Prequel generation likes Jar Jar either! (or all aspects of the prequels... and yes, I know Jar Jar was just your example there)

Anakin and young Obi? Yes. Asoka and the Clone Wars? Sure. Some elements are certainly the Star Wars for a current generation.

But even kids didn't love Jar Jar and a lot of the iffy prequel stuff that the older fans complain about. For all the "kids love the prequels and it's the same as the OT was for 80s kids" talk I've heard, I don't think it's actually true. Jar Jar didn't register as a favorite in the kids' zeitgeist at all. Having a Barney-like character in Star Wars was an experiment that really didn't work.... while it may have snagged a bunch of early childhood viewers, those viewers would come to hate those elements after the age of 10.

And let's reflect that we already had a generation of young kids grow up on the prequels, and they're now in their 20s. Not a whole lot of un-critical fondness there, really! Actually, they usually tend to come around to the views of the older Star Wars fans.

I think the prequels can be tapped as a minor vein of nostalgia someday. But I don't think there is this coming junior wave of super-love for everything prequel. The first generation who grew up on that is already here with us on GAF right now and they're not sucking at Jar Jar's teat (yes that image is in your mind now).

On the contrary... I think Disney sees that Star Wars can be a stronger brand by restoring it back to the elements that represented it in the 70s-80s... Those who love the prequels love the Jedi aspect the most, and that is fully present in a future trilogy era that stays close to the OT cloth.

Even aside from marketing-based decisions (which I don't think favor the prequels as much as you'd say), I think the ideology of all the people within Disney and without are mandating a return to what Star Wars was. That will be the way forward for the brand from now on... and that kind of approach will probably catch all of those who were introduced through the prequels anyway.

I saw Episode 1 when I was like 8 and I found Jar Jar funny. Ever since then, whenever I watch Episode 1 I still find it funny. I mean, I can see why he's annoying and why people don't like him but egh, I don't mind it too much

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Had the pleasure of meeting Irvin Kershner back in '97.
I wasn't much of a Star Wars fan at the time, but I shook his hand & told him "I really enjoyed your work on Empire Strikes Back... & Robocop 2, Mr. Kershner."

Spoiler

I honestly don't even like Robocop 2, but I wanted to say something he probably didn't hear often, lol

I think adding in Robocop 2 must have frozen his brain (or if it was just his advanced age), because he just nodded confusingly.
His eventual response was fucking awesome.
"I'm not entirely sure I even really know what either film was actually about, but thank you."

RIP, Mr. Kershner.

 

[Sectorseven]

He wasn't done after the prequels though. He was very hands on with The Clone Wars. He lead the writer summits every year and every script had to go through him.

That's just a cartoon though. He's been asked specifically about a Star Wars VII multiple times and he's always said something along the lines of "I'd be spending my 60s making more Star Wars films and I'm done with them."

 

[sphagnum]

I would rather see a reimagining of Star Wars following the original plot outline that Lucas wrote up in the early 70s than a flat out remake, like the Dark Horse "The Star Wars" comic.

 

[Florida_Man_5000]

Maybe the new movies will right the wrong of midochloriens? I don't want a force metal detector searching out Jedi when "The Force Awakens". I liked the spiritual aspect.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Maybe the new movies will right the wrong of midochloriens? I don't want a force metal detector searching out Jedi when "The Force Awakens". I liked the spiritual aspect.

I doubt they mention them at all.

And then in like 20 or 30 years when they reboot Star Wars entirely, they'll likely just... leave them out.

 

[Rootbeer]

More rumors about the Witta departure! We love rumors, right?

The basic story for the standalone was already in place, being hammered out by a few people and run through the new Lucasfilm story-group (so that everything fits together nice and tight), and Whitta was brought on to create the script based on those ideas and generally flesh it out. That was his job, and he's been hard at work on it for the last year, which likely means this isn't the first draft he's done. From there, he was set to move on (which apparently he's been off for a few weeks now) and then have someone else come into finalize the script, polish it up, and generally make sure it's the best it can be.

--

As for Simon Kinberg taking over (our source confirms Slashfilm's report...which you should have believed anyway), our source has heard Whitta's script was also too "big" budget-wise to film. His script would have been too expensive to film, so Kinberg will be tweaking things to make it more manageable. That being said, Whitta's script/story will remain largely intact, with the rough spots ironed out.

http://www.jedinews.co.uk/news/news.aspx?newsID=20182

 

[Bobby Roberts]

So JediNews is saying he was always supposed to be an inbetweener?

It still seems weird considering how Whitta/Edwards were presented to the public as the creative team behind the spinoff. I can't imagine they'd have done that if they always knew Whitta was gonna get bounced before the script was "finished."

 

[odiin]

More rumors about the Witta departure! We love rumors, right?



http://www.jedinews.co.uk/news/news.aspx?newsID=20182

The budget was too big for Star Wars? Did they wan it to be an Indie drama or something?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

The budget was too big for Star Wars? Did they wan it to be an Indie drama or something?

It's possible they don't wanna spend more than say, 125-150 mil for the spinoffs. They really didn't want to spend the 200+ they're spending on The Force Awakens, but the compressed schedule in order to get it out by 2015 sorta necessitated that.

 

[CreepingFear]

The budget was too big for Star Wars? Did they wan it to be an Indie drama or something?

I think it's kind of like how the Thor movies aren't say as expensive as the Avengers movies.

 

[TM94]

Started watching the Clone Wars series, I never watched it before because I thought it was just for kids, but many people have said that it's pretty good.

Clearly aimed for a younger audience but it seems decent so far, it gets darker later on I believe?

 

[Ushojax]

Maybe the new movies will right the wrong of midochloriens? I don't want a force metal detector searching out Jedi when "The Force Awakens". I liked the spiritual aspect.

Stuff like that and the 'Chosen One' can just be hand-waved away by saying the Jedi were wrong about both.

Midichlorians don't make any sense once ghosts come into the equation.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Clearly aimed for a younger audience but it seems decent so far, it gets darker later on I believe?

It only really starts to come into its own in S3.

This post from earlier in the thread details my basic roadmap through the series.

There's a .jpg that people share as the "definitive" list of episodes you need to see, but I don't really agree with it. It recommends some not-very-good stuff. But it's way easier to just share a .jpg, so it ends up being the default go-to for people getting into the show.

 

[Florida_Man_5000]

Stuff like that and the 'Chosen One' can just be hand-waved away by saying the Jedi were wrong about both.

Midichlorians don't make any sense once ghosts come into the equation.

Maybe the midichlorians were a Jedi mind trick on the Jedi? Who would have the power to do that?

Spoiler

Jar Jar obviously

. Motive:

Spoiler

to balance the force by getting Anakin identified

. More evidence that he's the chosen one.

 

[Florida_Man_5000]

Started watching the Clone Wars series, I never watched it before because I thought it was just for kids, but many people have said that it's pretty good.

Clearly aimed for a younger audience but it seems decent so far, it gets darker later on I believe?

The last three seasons are top notch stuff. The very last season was called "secrets revealed" (iirc), that was great! Gonna have to re watch those myself.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Yeah I'm hoping some Sith (Darksider, whatever) is gonna get a scene in the movie where somebody asks him about midichlorians and he just laughs, shakes his head, and calls the old Jedi order stupid. Thats it, don't replace them with something else, don't even explain why its wrong, just flat out declare it a mistake and move on.

 

[Gleethor]

Yeah I'm hoping some Sith (Darksider, whatever) is gonna get a scene in the movie where somebody asks him about midichlorians and he just laughs, shakes his head, and calls the old Jedi order stupid. Thats it, don't replace them with something else, don't even explain why its wrong, just flat out declare it a mistake and move on.

Yeah and I can't wait for Luke to slowly turn to the camera and say "The prequels were bad" and then wink.

In all seriousness I don't know why they'd even need to bring up midichlorians. The movie isn't going to go out of its way to validate people's feelings about the prequels.

 

[CloudyTuba]

My personal retcon of midichlorians is that they are an effect rather than a cause. They are not what gives us the force. They are a life form that is drawn to it and multiplies in it. Thus a high concentration is an indication of force power.

How do the midichlorians exist across multiple planets so consistently that they can test for it? I dunno. All lifeforms have them. Spaceships or some shit. I still like this better than what Lucas tried. Come at me, George.

I don't expect them to be mentioned ever again in the movies.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

My personal retcon of midichlorians is that they are an effect rather than a cause. They are not what give us the force. They are a life form that is drawn to it and multiplies in it. Thus a high concentration is an indication of force power.

How do the midichlorians exist across multiple planets so consistently that they can test for it? I dunno. Spaceships or some shit. I still like this better than what Lucas tried. Come at me, George.

I don't expect them to be mentioned ever again in the movies.

But that IS exactly what Lucas envisioned.

 

[Nekofrog]

as to the whole "kids who grew up on the pt love jar jar" thing, I don't think I've ever seen a post on the internet from anyone saying "jar jar was pretty great, guys" in any context whatsoever.

 

[PartlyCloudlike]

My personal retcon of midichlorians is that they are an effect rather than a cause. They are not what gives us the force. They are a life form that is drawn to it and multiplies in it. Thus a high concentration is an indication of force power.

How do the midichlorians exist across multiple planets so consistently that they can test for it? I dunno. All lifeforms have them. Spaceships or some shit. I still like this better than what Lucas tried. Come at me, George.

I don't expect them to be mentioned ever again in the movies.

But that IS exactly what Lucas envisioned.

lol he's right, you basically described whats in the midichlorian wiki.

Midi-chlorians were intelligent microscopic life forms that lived symbiotically inside the cells of all living things. When present in sufficient numbers, they could allow their host to detect the pervasive energy field known as the Force. Midi-chlorian counts were linked to potential in the Force, ranging from normal Human levels of 2,500 per cell to the much higher levels of Jedi. The highest known midi-chlorian count—over 20,000 per cell—belonged to the Jedi Anakin Skywalker, who was believed to have been conceived by the midi-chlorians.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

as to the whole "kids who grew up on the pt love jar jar" thing, I don't think I've ever seen a post on the internet from anyone saying "jar jar was pretty great, guys" in any context whatsoever.

It's almost always a thing grown adults say about children they've observed as a means to defend the prequels against people who dislike them for various reasons.

"My kids LOVE Jar Jar"
"My nephew loves Jar Jar"
"I was at an elementary school and kids were laughing and playing Jar Jar on the playground."

 

[JonnyBrad]

The Midiclorians are like an interface into the force. The more you have the more you are able to "plugin" and use the force. That's how they work. They don't create the force.

They can easily be ignored in the ST as the knowledge of them can be lost and all they are are an explanation of why some people are more powerful than others.

Edit: severely beaten.

 

[CloudyTuba]

But that IS exactly what Lucas envisioned.

My impression from Episode 1 is that they were intended to take a much more active role in force use than the passive one I am implying. The active/passive difference is really what I'm stressing.

They are what allows a user to contact and wield the force in the first place and that without them it would be impossible. Also that the amount in a persons blood is a direct determining factor in how much they can achieve.

No longer is force power a question of will and determination but a question of who your parents were or random chance.

It says right at the beginning of the same article you guys are referencing that they are what ALLOWS their host to be force sensitive at all. They provide it. If that's true then you could create an inoculation to inhibit midichlorians and make a force user ineffective. Pfft. Sucks.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Yeah and I can't wait for Luke to slowly turn to the camera and say "The prequels were bad" and then wink.

In all seriousness I don't know why they'd even need to bring up midichlorians. The movie isn't going to go out of its way to validate people's feelings about the prequels.

At the same time, especially with the canon reset, they have a golden opportunity to right some wrongs, and theres certainly nothing wrong with that. Its not a retcon to simply say that people in the past were wrong about some science. Realistic world progression if anything. Plus, Its not about validating criticisms, its about actually recognizing them and doing something about it. Growing into something better. I think most people will agree midichlorians we're a terrible idea that effectively tarnish the series. Getting rid of them without just retconning them away is the best solution.

 

[Perspicacity]

Tribal warrior salamander people who live secretly in a submerged city on an otherwise populated (by human) world is a cool idea.

 

[prag16]

Even though Star Wars is more fantasy-esque than hard scifi, it still tries to be scifi in terms of technology, etc. The Force kind of doesn't fit into that... without midichlorians. And as far as ass-pull pseudoscience goes it's a little out there, but it's no worse than plenty of other typical scifi fare. That said, yeah, I doubt they'll be mentioned in the ST.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

They are a life form that is drawn to it and multiplies in it. Thus a high concentration is an indication of force power.

But the whole idea of Force users having "power levels" like some DBZ shit is just... uhg. No. All force users should have virtually limitless potential, but only that, potential, and its up to them to train and find the will to achieve anything along that spectrum of muggle to god.

People aren't born physically strong, and strength isnt genetic, well not for the most part. You can't go up to a kid, take a blood sample, and know if he will be a body builder when he grows up. Just the idea of that is plain silly. But that's basically what they did for force users with the premise of midichlorians.

They can easily, easily come out in the future and say "oh, midichlorians? those are just unrelated microoganisms. Pairing them with force power was a mistake bred from the ignorant belief that force users had power levels." Or to some similar effect. Things like that happen in real science all the time.

 

[Woorloog]

But the whole idea of Force users having "power levels" like some DBZ shit is just... uhg. No.

Didn't the OT already establish this more or less?

(Besides, it is a damn typical thing in fantasy works, and do note that Star Wars is quite typical fantasy other than being set in space)

 

[prag16]

But the whole idea of Force users having "power levels" like some DBZ shit is just... uhg. No. All force users should have virtually limitless potential, but only that, potential, and its up to them to train and find the will to achieve anything along that spectrum of muggle to god.

Why is that so absurd? People have different levels of potential in various areas. Athletic, artistic, intellectual, otherwise. Why should force use be any different? This isn't "some DBZ shit" at all. It's just... how things work, in real life.

 

[Gleethor]

Tribal warrior salamander people who live secretly in a submerged city on an otherwise populated (by human) world is a cool idea.

The prequels had a lot of cool world building ideas which is the main reason they shouldn't be ignored in the canon.

 

[CloudyTuba]

But the whole idea of Force users having "power levels" like some DBZ shit is just... uhg. No.

So you must not have enjoyed the Original Trilogy very much since that's basically what most people believed for over 20 years.

All force users should have virtually limitless potential, but only that, potential, and its up to them to train and find the will to achieve anything along that spectrum of muggle to god.

People aren't born physically strong, and strength isnt genetic, well not for the most part. You can't go up to a kid, take a blood sample, and know if he will be a body builder when he grows up. Just the idea of that is plain silly. But that's basically what they did for force users with the premise of midichlorians.

But that's exactly what midichlorians do. It's putting a limit on how strong someone can get. It decides at birth how strong in the force someone can be. Anakin has 20,000 so he is automatically the strongest ever. His son has the same genetics so he automatically is super saiyan. Poor Plo Koon just can't compete with those genes.

It's like if that kid you mentioned literally had fewer muscles and fibers in his body. He can make the most of what he has but he still has fewer muscles in his body than the other guy. His two pack will never be a six pack. His left arm still looks like a noodle missing that bicep.

All I really want is what you said. "All force users should have virtually limitless potential," Agreed. Midichlorians put a limit on that potential.

 

[JonnyBrad]

While I don't think it was ever actually explicitly mentioned in the OT I always assumed that people had differing force potential.

I don't think anyone ever thought that if Han knuckled down and studied he'd be as powerful Jedi as Luke.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Didn't the OT already establish this more or less?

(Besides, it is a damn typical thing in fantasy works, and do note that Star Wars is quite typical fantasy other than being set in space)

No it didn't. They just said luke is "strong in the force" but I always took that to simply mean he was capable of manipulating it, that that was a general term for any force user, not that he was a powerful, capable manipulator. They said he was strong while he was still using training wheels after all. I believe they simply see the potential in him, the seed, nothing more.

 

[Woorloog]

No it didn't. They just said luke is "strong in the force" but I always took that to simply mean he was capable of manipulating it, that that was a general term for any force user, not that he was a powerful, capable manipulator. They said he was strong while he was still using training wheels after all. I believe they simply see the potential in him, the seed, nothing more.

Didn't Vader note in ANH that "This one is strong in the Force" while tailing Luke? Given that Luke had no practical training so far, that would imply naturally strong Force ability.
Potential cannot be really detected in many things, why should potential Force ability be detectable?

(A side note: IIRC, Lucas had originally intended the Force to be truly universal, anyone being able to learn it but he also specified the Skywalkers' to be unusually strong. If i recall correctly. I can't recall where i read this though. In any case, this would support "power levels" system, IMO.)

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Why is that so absurd? People have different levels of potential in various areas. Athletic, artistic, intellectual, otherwise. Why should force use be any different? This isn't "some DBZ shit" at all. It's just... how things work, in real life.

Thats not how real life works though... You are not born smart or strong or artistic. Genetics can lay a bit of foundation, but most of what you are is earned through experience. There is no artist without influence, there is no athlete without physical training, there is no intellectual without study. It may come a bit easier to people based on their genetics, but its not a big difference outside rare mutations.

But apparently thats not how the force works. You're born with your limit and ease of reaching it predetermined. People are simply born superior or inferior, and nothing they do in life can change it. That sucks.

 

[CloudyTuba]

While I don't think it was ever actually explicitly mentioned in the OT I always assumed that people had differing force potential.

I don't think anyone ever thought that if Han knuckled down and studied he'd be as powerful Jedi as Luke.

I figured it was more like talent. It comes easier to some people than to others, but anyone can do it if they really buckle down. As long as their mind is in the right place.

I really did think that if Han honestly tried and spent a long time studying with the jedi, he could get in touch with the force.

The only reason I thought that Luke was especially inclined to force use was because of a more spiritual connection to Anakin being his father, rather than genetic.

Thats not how real life works though... You are not born smart or strong or artistic. Genetics can lay a bit of foundation, but most of what you are is earned through experience. There is no artist without influence, there is no athlete without physical training, there is no intellectual without study. It may come a bit easier to people based on their genetics, but its not a big difference outside rare mutations.

Yes, this!

 

[JonnyBrad]

I figured it was more like talent. It comes easier to some people than to others, but anyone can do it if they really buckle down. As long as their mind is in the right place.

I really did think that if Han honestly tried and spent a long time studying with the jedi, he could get in touch with the force.

I assumed that if Han could concentrate really hard he'd just about be able to move pencil on a desk. Them's the breaks. Some people are born able to run a 10 second 100m. Some aren't.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Didn't Vader note in ANH that "This one is strong in the Force" while tailing Luke? Given that Luke had no practical training so far, that would imply naturally strong Force ability.
Potential cannot be really detected in many things, why should potential Force ability be detectable?

Why can it not simply be that he detected a well of potential instead of actual strength? An open door as opposed to all the closed ones that most people have. That would open up far more interesting metaphisical ideas.

(A side note: IIRC, Lucas had originally intended the Force to be truly universal, anyone being able to learn it but he also specified the Skywalkers' to be unusually strong. If i recall correctly. I can't recall where i read this though. In any case, this would support "power levels" system, IMO.)

So the Skywalker family could have had wider wells, larger doors, for which to stick their hands through and manipulate the force. That wouldn't put a limit on what he can achieve, just perhaps make it a bit easier to achieve it. Like how real life genetics work. A mutation, an abnormality. Not simply the luck of the draw on an entirely normal, unfair, and uninteresting system.

Its so easy to come up with different reasons for things happening in fiction, idk why you guys don't exercise that ability.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Practically, we're likely not going to hear about Midichlorians solely because there's no Jedi Order around to use their existence as a screening method for new recruits. And since that practice died with Order 66, there's absolutely no reason for that knowledge to have filtered through the last eight decades to whoever's still left.

If anything, the only person who still knows anything about it would likely be Kylo Ren, who is big on cosplaying as a member of a dead religion. I'd imagine he's super-into nerdy little factoids like that.