Well he doesn't reach any higher up.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
- Start date
Lawrence Kasdan is writing it. The writer of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. You are in safe hands.
Sectorseven
Member
Shouldn't the suit be ashes, at least the cloth part?
One of them at least.
brandonh83
Banned
Yep, this is after Qui-Gon enlightened them through the Force in the gap between the prequels and originals. That's why they're far more spiritual and humble toward the Force in the originals, not that by the book mindset in the prequels. Lucas made them that way so that they'd be blind and arrogant. If the Jedi order were as wise as they were in the originals in the prequels, they wouldn't have gotten their asses kicked. My evidence? One of the last scenes in Episode III where Yoda deliberately touches on this.
I get that people don't like Midichlorians but they were introduced to show that the Jedi didn't have that spiritual connection to the Force that they should have had. They treated it like science and it was one of many flaws about them that helped Palpatine exploit them.
Hm, no. It'd be nice to retcon it this way, but it sure as hell wasn't made like that.
brandonh83
Banned
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The way Midichlorians are introduced and treated in Phantom Menace strongly suggests it was created almost solely as an answer to the question "Why would the council take this kid if they think he's way out of the age range?"
It's kind of a band-aid on a bad concept, and by bad concept I don't mean "Detecting the force," I mean a) de-aging Skywalker to 7 or 8 years old (I believe he was 13/14 in the original drafts) and b) making the rule that anyone older than toddler is too old to begin the training.
When Yoda said "too old!" in Empire, it didn't need to be interpreted as "anyone older than 2"
Regardless - it was an answer to a question that nobody was really asking, and the best answer to it would have been to just not ask the question. Have the people in the room feel how strong he is automatically. Watching people react to the jolt of power emanating off the kid says way more than having a Lady Schick waved over his arm.
It's kind of a band-aid on a bad concept, and by bad concept I don't mean "Detecting the force," I mean a) de-aging Skywalker to 7 or 8 years old (I believe he was 13/14 in the original drafts) and b) making the rule that anyone older than toddler is too old to begin the training.
When Yoda said "too old!" in Empire, it didn't need to be interpreted as "anyone older than 2"
Regardless - it was an answer to a question that nobody was really asking, and the best answer to it would have been to just not ask the question. Have the people in the room feel how strong he is automatically. Watching people react to the jolt of power emanating off the kid says way more than having a Lady Schick waved over his arm.
freethought
Member
You didn't like Regarding Henry? Mind you, he also has a writing credit on Armageddon.
Nah.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The Jedi believed in a Prophecy about a Chosen One. They did not treat the Force like science at all.
brandonh83
Banned
I'm not saying it was the best approach but I understand the intention. I simply don't think it's as big of a deal as people tend to believe. We all have opinions of course, but even as a long-time fan of the series that grew up with the originals, nothing about it really bothered me and the explanation of Qui-Gon teaching Yoda and Obi-Wan more "properly" through the Force during their exile works for me. It was also set up right in the very first episode when we see him meditating before dying, just as Obi-Wan did before Vader killed him. It's not some happy coincidence. Say what you will about Lucas but he knows his story.
When it comes to the fact that they used Midichlorians as a gauge, yes, they did. Just because they believe in some prophecy doesn't nix what I'm saying at all.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
I'm partial to the name Rochard Boehner
freethought
Member
Lucas did more than one draft of that script?
Yeah, you think Yoda was just looking for any excuse but no, it turns out Luke is literally 20 years too old. But then he ends up being a great Jedi anyway. Guess if he had been trained from childhood it wouldn't really have mattered. He still kicked Vader's ass. And if you think about it, Luke had literally no practical training in lightsaber combat. None, zip, nada. And since he's sold Lucasfilm, George can't insert an entirely CG scene of Yoda sparring with Luke as per his 'original vision'.
I still don't get how you make one of the most universally beloved movies of all time and somehow get the idea that it needs to be fixed.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I agree, it's really not that big a deal. It's just one of those things that people tend to pick at. I can see WHY they pick at it, and I'm more inclined to agree with the idea that the introduction of Midichlorians is pretty unnecessary overall, but it doesn't really carry much weight in the Prequel Trilogy. It CAN, if you want it to, but it can also just be one of a million little details that kinda/sorta move the plot forward, but aren't very important, comparatively.
brandonh83
Banned
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Yeah, All qui gon had to do ask Shmi who the father is and she says There was no Father and that should be more than enough to convince Qui-gon the force is involved.
GentlemanCrow
Member
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/0...ies-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens-set.html
https://uk.yahoo.com/movies/warwick-davis-shows-off-darth-vader-selfie-from-108158124734.html
Hmm....
a selfie taken "on set"... with Vader? Could it be the rumors are true? Or is he intentionally messing with the fans.He is quite a joker...
If it's a joke it's nothing but it it's real, believe it or not I can get a lot of information from a Vader crotch shot.
The lightsaber is inverted. With the emitter down. Vader always wore the saber emitter up in the OT. Except maybe in Jedi but that's because the original hilt was lost and they kit-bashed a stunt hilt used for Luke. This gave the Jedi Vader saber two d-rings one being a redundant one on the base.
The saber is hung from the belt with a metal clip. Looks pretty generic. The prequels used Covertec pager clips to attach sabers to belts. The hilt actually looks accurate to ANH and appears to be a either a piece built with an original MPP flashgun or a very close replica. The sabers created to match the original sabers in the prequels were shop built from scratch and noticably smaller than the ones used in the original movies. This looks to be the right size.
The gloves are the same or similar to the ones used for Empire and Jedi.
I guessing it's a replica made by a fan or perhaps a Lucasfilm display piece.
Pretty much, this.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, it never bothered me. But being an atheist, I kind of liked the force having some science behind it, rather that just being spiritual mumbo jumbo. But overall, yeah it was unnecessary and I doubt it will be mentioned again.
I'll have to take your word for it on all the details. Was interesting to read your interpretations though. I had no idea Vader's saber in RotJ was improvised to such an extent. How could they lose such a valuable prop? I guess it just goes with the territory when it comes to Vader, since they redid his helmet piece at least twice based on my limited knowledge (once for empire, once for RotS)
GentlemanCrow
Member
It was most likely stolen.
I think they at least recast the helmet each film. The costume was most drastically changed between Star Wars and Empire.
These were created just for JEDI
I remember Lucas saying in an interview with Oprah that he never got to experience Star Wars like everybody else. For him it was just a film he did under severe restrictions and crunches. So he doesn't have the emotional attachment everybody else does.
http://www.cinelinx.com/rumor-contr...-gary-whitta-no-longer-writing-star-wars.html
"The basic story for the standalone was already in place, being hammered out by a few people and run through the new Lucasfilm story-group"
How much power do these people have?
"The basic story for the standalone was already in place, being hammered out by a few people and run through the new Lucasfilm story-group"
How much power do these people have?
brandonh83
Banned
Unlimited.
There was a interview with the Story Group lead a few months back, can't remember where. They wield a lot of power. They basically decided they needed a George Lucas without Lucas there. Someone to make all the key story decisions, approve all stories, decide the laws of the universe, how characters would act, etc. And in the wake of Lucas they created the group of about 5-6 people including long-time Lucasfilm types like Pablo Hidalgo and Leland Chee.
The story group came up with the initial hook behind Rebels for example, and dictates the eras and basic plots where books and comics can be and so forth.
Indications that they have a lot of say in temrs of where the films go as well.
Well, given Chee and the Holocron I hope to see some old material brought in.
GorillaWithDandruff
Member
My problem with midi-chlorians isn't that they are bad in the context of the PT. It's the implications and impact they have on the entire SW lore. I am certain Lucas did not care or even give it a second thought when he inserted it in PM and that yea like what was said earlier it was just a reason for Anakin to be "the one!!!"
In the OT you get the impression that the Force is a mystical and mysterious "force" (go figure) that exists throughout the entire universe that connects everything and everyone to each other on a deeper level than just physical or scientific.
With that 2 minute glancing scene, Lucas completely shatters that for the sake of lazy writing. People make so many excuses for Lucas and give him way more credit for things he did not intend or plan out. AND DON'T NONE A Y'ALL DARE USE EU RETCONS AND EXPLANATIONS TO JUSTIFY LUCAS' GARBAGE. Lo siento for the rant
Both are pretty bad imo lol. Just kinda odd using that for an argument in support of JJ. Super 8 would be a better example of his good writing chops I think.
In the OT you get the impression that the Force is a mystical and mysterious "force" (go figure) that exists throughout the entire universe that connects everything and everyone to each other on a deeper level than just physical or scientific.
With that 2 minute glancing scene, Lucas completely shatters that for the sake of lazy writing. People make so many excuses for Lucas and give him way more credit for things he did not intend or plan out. AND DON'T NONE A Y'ALL DARE USE EU RETCONS AND EXPLANATIONS TO JUSTIFY LUCAS' GARBAGE. Lo siento for the rant
Both are pretty bad imo lol. Just kinda odd using that for an argument in support of JJ. Super 8 would be a better example of his good writing chops I think.
freethought
Member
Really? Your reaction to hearing about space magic in a movie is "what a load of mumbo jumbo, I hope they have some hard science to back it up"?
I guess it's attitudes like that which led to people completely dismissing the existence of the force just twenty years after an intergalactic order of magic monks fought a huge war across half of the galaxy and were eventually hunted down and executed as traitors. I mean, does mass media not exist in the star wars universe? There weren't any newsreels of mace windu crushing battalions of battle droids with his mind?
I mean, not once in the entire prequels does anyone offer any shred of doubt over a jedi's abilities, Anakin Skywalker is famous! Yet only twenty years later, Han Solo, a man who claims to have been from one end of the galaxy to the other has never encountered one shred of evidence to sug- you know what, forget it. That shit made no sense in the first place. You're telling me Vader had never force-choked a dude before the conference room scene in the original film? Because I reckon that kind of news would travel pretty quickly amongst the imperial officers.
Thinking about it though, that guy didn't call Vader a fraud really, just sort of teased him a bit. It was only Han who expressed any real scepticism. Seriously, why doesn't Han believe in Jedi?
It used to be on TV all the time when I was a kid so I do have kind of a soft spot for it, but the real answer is it was a joke.
GorillaWithDandruff
Member
Lol Damnt. This whole time I was sitting here thinking "there's no way he's serious. He's gotta be joking......but what if he isn't." Shiii. Played me like a damn fiddle. But yeah I love the shit out of Armageddon. Still tear up every once in a while. Bruce goin out like such a beast unnnnnnngggg.
freethought
Member
I would like to go on record as saying that I definitely do not 'love the shit out of Armageddon' in case anyone came away with that impression. I mean yeah, I was kidding around about Regarding Henry but there are some things you just don't joke about.
Also, having Steven Tyler singing over a romantic scene featuring his daughter is just really fucking creepy.
Wow... This is some hardcore case of fedora tipping right there.
My problem with midi-chlorians isn't that they are bad in the context of the PT. It's the implications and impact they have on the entire SW lore. I am certain Lucas did not care or even give it a second thought when he inserted it in PM and that yea like what was said earlier it was just a reason for Anakin to be "the one!!!"
In the OT you get the impression that the Force is a mystical and mysterious "force" (go figure) that exists throughout the entire universe that connects everything and everyone to each other on a deeper level than just physical or scientific.
With that 2 minute glancing scene, Lucas completely shatters that for the sake of lazy writing. People make so many excuses for Lucas and give him way more credit for things he did not intend or plan out. AND DON'T NONE A Y'ALL DARE USE EU RETCONS AND EXPLANATIONS TO JUSTIFY LUCAS' GARBAGE. Lo siento for the rant
The force is a mystical and mysterious thing, the force has never been explained as anything other than an unknown thing. Midichlorians are not, have never been, and don't create, the force, they are entities that allow communication with it.
brandonh83
Banned
That's true. And the prequels don't change that. Midichlorians certainly don't change that.
Um, not really? I also always enjoy when movies justify their worlds with some internal logic instead of handwaving it away as "it's just magic, deal with it"
One of the reasons why Brandon Sanderson is so well regarded.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
ehh. there are 10,000 jedi in the Galaxy with an estimated total of 100 quadrillion sentients in the galaxy so 100,000,000,000,000,000/10,000=10,000,000,000,000. A person has a 1 in 10 trillion chance of actually becoming a jedi. Our perception of the commonality of the Jedi is skewed because the stories follow jedi and the people who encounter them. Yes mass media exists but would you be able to separate a Jedi from some one who isn't modestly dressed if they keep their lightsaber out of view and not of your own species? Why would their be newsreels?
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Has it ever come out why they made him 7 instead of 13? Seems like it only hurt the film
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I believe Lucas said he moved him back to 7 or 8 because he thought it wouldn't be believable that a 13-14 year old boy would miss his mother so badly that the attachment would lead to his downfall.
Which was kind of a mistake, in that a 13 year old boy abandoning his mother to slavery is plenty enough reason to lay a guilt-trip on the kid that causes him to become the control-freak that he is.
It's not like 13-14 year old boys are known for emotional stability.
Which was kind of a mistake, in that a 13 year old boy abandoning his mother to slavery is plenty enough reason to lay a guilt-trip on the kid that causes him to become the control-freak that he is.
It's not like 13-14 year old boys are known for emotional stability.
freethought
Member
Yeah, but how many CEO's or Kings or Presidents are there at any one time? Jedi weren't just average citizens, they were at the heart of an intergalactic power structure for millenia. They led armies in battle across countless solar systems just in Han's lifetime.
Why wouldn't there be newsreels?
GentlemanCrow
Member
We still talk about dinosaurs. And with Palpatine using the Jedi prominently in his "We need an Empire" speech, the fact that Jedi are less than common knowledge is so dumb. The fact that Jedi went from prominent guardians of the galaxy to less than legends in under twenty years is Grade A bullshit. I got the impression from the way Ben spoke of the Jedi in ANH that they were more or less extinct before the purge and Vader just moped up the few he could find. Alas Lucas gonna Lucas.
freethought
Member
Is the hockey analogy in the RLM reviews? That's a good one.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Pretty sure most of that "Qui Gon in touch with Yoda and maybe Obi Wan" that was briefly alluded to at the end of ROTS (and I believe was gone over in more detail in the novelization and an earlier cut of the film) was just to teach Yoda/Obi about Force ghosts and the power to survive beyond death.
You get the impression that it was learned between the PT and OT from the fact that no one talks about force ghosts in the prequels, and how Darth Vader seems surprised that Obi disappeared in Episode IV (toeing at his empty robe).
You've read that Qui Gon "teaching more about the Force" into your narrative where you think the Jedis in the PT were incompetent and stodgy on purpose, which I don't agree with (I think it's really George's nerdy inability to portray an esoteric mystic order of monks - they come off like beauracrats), but I'll just leave that be since we've discussed that already....
Exactly. I've never understood why this is such a hard concept to grasp.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Which of course was just a Lucas asspull anyway since Anakin becomes a Force ghost at the end of ROTJ despite having been the most blind and arrogant person ever and having no contact with Qui Gon.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yoda n Obi teach him in ghost school.
brandonh83
Banned
You're free to disagree. That's fine. I just see it as Lucas' way of showing how the Jedi were flawed in their teachings and understanding of the Force which is what allowed Palpatine to manipulate them. Again if they were what everyone "envisioned" as a perfect monk-like order with a phenomenal grasp of the Force, I don't think what happened to them would have happened. It makes more sense to me that they were imperfect which led to their downfall.
Many would agree that Qui-Gon was more like Yoda and Obi-Wan in the originals and I don't find that to be a coincidence. Episode I showed us, for the first time (chronologically) a Jedi meditating before death. The very same Jedi dies, becomes one with the Force beyond death, and therefore has a stronger connection and understanding of it which then carried over into his communications with Yoda and Obi-Wan after the prequels.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I'd argue that your logic is exactly why there would be newsreels. At one in 10 trillion, every Jedi would be a local superstar.
GorillaWithDandruff
Member
Oh yea it's fucking garbage. Are we on the same page...? I feel like we're not.
AIGHT. TIME TO DEFEND MYSELF. (Midi-chlorian apologists. What the hell did I say)
Midi-chlorians do in fact ruin that image of the Force though. Yes they don't create the Force but the fact that they are the sole reason life can acknowledge or interact with it is stupid. As I said, in the OT it felt on a deeper than physical level, but with midi-chlorians, that's just it. It becomes quantifiable and physical.
It is no longer people using the Force, it becomes people using a scientifically explained organism to take advantage of the Force. Why is the Force significant now in the universe if only Midi-chlorians can access it, and not the living organisms themselves. (And like I said, don't be bringing in other peoples' explanations from the EU)
AND PLUS, the suspension of disbelief is entirely broken for the concept. Star Wars worked because it didn't try describing shit like there was a scientific explanation for it.
And please, do not misinterpret. I am aware that George had intended for Midi-chlorians to be in from the beginning. But thankfully he wasn't able to implement them into the SW story due to time and because of Bracket and Kasdan the SW Universe was much better and far more interesting without it (for a time).