Episode III is the best paced prequel and I believe Lucas hired an outside editor for that. The other prequels are borefests and even the action sequences fail to make up for it, and they too dragged on like the podracing. Basically any scene featuring Anakin/Padme, aliens, or droids could have used a lot of work. Prequels also suffered from a lack of fantasy imagination (Dagobah and Vader scenes) and made us miss the chemistry from the OT cast. I think Michael Bay's The Rock is a more fun experience than the prequels.
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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
- Start date
Episode III is the best paced prequel and I believe Lucas hired an outside editor for that. The other prequels are borefests and even the action sequences fail to make up for it, and they too dragged on like the podracing. Basically any scene featuring Anakin/Padme, aliens, or droids could have used a lot of work. Prequels also suffered from a lack of fantasy imagination (Dagobah and Vader scenes) and made us miss the chemistry from the OT cast. I think Michael Bay's The Rock is a more fun experience than the prequels.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Screencapped it, just because I felt like it:
Really beginning to like it, look forward to building the Lego model and putting next to the OT X-Wing. (such a geek)
That's a new class of ship, right? I can't imagine Abrams is stupid enough to redesign the old ships. I kind of like it. Lacks the charm of an X-Wing though.
Oh man, imagine the meltdown if he "updated" the Falcon.
He hired an outside editor like, are you knocking Ben Burtt or whoever? George Lucas isn't the editor on the Star Wars movies, so didn't he hire an outside editor for all of them?
TheKaeptain
Banned
Burtt was the sound designer right?
Apparently he did both, and that just wasn't good enough for you, was it Abounder??
Ben Burtt edited all 3 prequel films and is a terrible editor. The editing, especially in Ep 2 and 3, are atrocious. The movies are nothing more than a series of vignettes and montages. Ben Burtt is still a world-class sound designer. I'm glad he is returning to his proper role within the Star Wars franchise with Ep. 7.
Burtt is definitely a great sound designer at least. From what I remember on the AotC DVD he was the one who persuaded Lucas to let the Obi-Wan/Jango Geonosis ring dogfight play out without music because he wanted to highlight the sonic bomb noise so much. Lucas just wanted it to be Williams' score the whole time.
They were the sole shining point(s) of quality of Rebel Strike, that's for sure.
(Well them and the airborne part of the Hoth mission)
good old star wars games, why don't we get this kind of stuff anymore...
Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with Spielberg's supposed involvement with Ep 3. In any case: nah it wasn't "good enough", the prequels were clunky and boring. It's a major reason why I am excited for the new trilogy: fresh blood while keeping what worked with Empire Strikes Back (big 3, empire aesthetics, Kasdan, McCallum's retirement, etc)
genericsuperhero
Member
If there is one thing besides all the obvious, often cited issues with the prequels that I dislike, its the fact that basically there is a constant score accompaniment to every scene, no matter how small. Not every scene, including some boring dialogue scenes, need a background score.
Its 30 years on. So almost certainly a new class of ship. There have been images of the Falcon from the workshop and it looks exactly like it should.
BlueDogAnchorite
Member
Dude Episode III was amazing.
megashock5
Member
I just assumed it's supposed to be an updated model of X-Wing. There were tons of them across all movies, so someone must mass produce them - it stands to reason that years later there might be some design tweaks, much like cars.
The Falcon is Han's personal ship, therefore there is exactly one. There may be other ships of the same class, but only one Millennium Falcon, so it can't be redesigned.
Just my take on it.
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
One thing I've noticed with this reveal is that a surprisingly large number of people are unaware of the original concept sketches & paintings done for the X-Wing by Joe Johnston and Ralph McQuarrie for the original movie. As soon as I saw this video, I was excited because it's definitely based on those drawings.
Check out this blog post that has several sketches from the 1977 "Star Wars Sketchbook" as well as production paintings by Ralph McQuarrie. Awesome stuff.
I'm also assuming that Episode VII is treating this design as an advanced version of the X-Wings we saw in the Original Trilogy.
GentlemanCrow
Member
You're god damn right.
Messypandas
Member
They were the sole shining point(s) of quality of Rebel Strike, that's for sure.
(Well them and the airborne part of the Hoth mission)
I find it weird in the OG trilogy the good guys shoot red and baddies shoot green, and in the prequels the good guys shoot green and the bad guys shoot red. Was there a conscious "swapsies of the laser colour" after the fall of the republic?
fastford58
Member
good old star wars games, why don't we get this kind of stuff anymore...
Because George Lucas. Hopefully now that his decrepit mits are off the franchise (for the most part), we will see some good SW games again...let alone movies.
Execute order 66
From the moment Obi Wan hit the water and the music kicks in.. always hits me. Not the rains of Castmere but the Rains of Palpatine, Star Wars' Red Wedding. Seeing all these Jedi wiped out was exactly how I pictured it when I saw the original trilogy.
GentlemanCrow
Member
I just watched that sequence up to Anakin entering the Council Chamber. Things that strike me other than the naff visuals, having not watched this film in about five years:
- The Jedi are overpowered too easily compared to in the past for the sake of a quick montage
- They all fall over in really silly overblown ways
- I don't care about them because I don't know them, and I only recognise two of them - the long face guy and the beetle man in the starfighter
- Palpatine looks like he's contacting each troop individually, which is weird considering how many Jedi they must have to take out
There is more but I'll be going into the visuals which I know are a hot, nasty debate to get back into now, suffice to say it looks bad.
You can't fairly compare it to the sequence outlined above from Jedi. The betrayal and shock we should be feeling isn't there because we knew it was coming and we didn't see much of the trooper/Jedi relationship to begin with. In Jedi you have personal confrontation with a personified evil, family conflict and revelation, a son overpowering his father, sacrifice and redemption. To name just a few things from the fight. You also have a huge ass space battle with split second escapes. All linked because of the characters we have followed closely have split up and are participating in the action.
Bucket Mouse
Member
Exactly. I will give points to Williams' score in this scene as it is a good piece that does all the heavy lifting of manipulating your emotions while putting your mindset in a "sad" place, which is admirable considering we don't have any investment in these Jedi characters that are cut down. Beyond that, the scene is fundamentally flawed for me because it relies on the silly idea that these clones have some sort of mind control chip; and beyond that still it relies on the very concept of the "clone troopers" in the first place, which have convoluted story origins and don't fit with the stormtroopers of the OT. Then, to top it all off, it culminates in Anakin murdering the "younglings", a reprehensible act which completely ruins Vader's redemption in the very RotJ scene I have highlighted.
Conversely, the RotJ scene revolves around central characters we have gotten to know over the course of two or three movies, producing a real emotional payoff for all of them. So no, it is not in the same stratosphere.
I grew up with the Original Trilogy, I have watched all of them at least 1000 times each over 20 years or something, and I still liked Episode 3 the most, maybe is because it has the most important sequence in my mind of all the series to me, exactly that one you say, Order 66 the mass killing of Jedis, that alone makes it better to anything starwars related IMO.
Some people laugh at me, some people say I have terrible taste and I say just a simple "whatever" lols, Im the one enjoying the movie and if that hurts some feelings or make people eye rolling well to fucking bad.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
The "good guys" in the PT are largely the republic army/navy, which becomes the imperial army/navy. It's essentially the same technology, gear, and personnel (minus jedi and rebel sympathizers.) There was no actual swap, because it's just the same army using green in the OT that was using green in the PT.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
They shot green because the Republic became the Empire. Most of the Republic spaceships are predecessors to Empire spaceships rather than Rebel ones.
EDIT: Anoregon shot first
Messypandas
Member
BFIB
Member
I was always hoping that when the prequels were announced, we'd see the fall of Anakin halfway through Episode 2, and the wiping out of the Jedi in Episode 3 with Vader just decimating Jedi.
The fall of Anakin was lame and dumb in how it was portrayed, I was hoping for a more fleshed out fall, my love for EP3 doesn't even have to do with Vader at all but with the Emperor and everything happening around him, vader is not a great favorite of mine, it was always the Emperor lol, the puppetmaster.
Bucket Mouse
Member
I don't disagree, yet the one massively overlong scene that desperately needed a constant score accompaniment - the podrace - falls flat on its face until they bring in the music at the very end.
Compare it to the asteroid chase in ESB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTp8mKFxmbg&t=1m50s
Or the Death Star chase in RotJ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPZigWFyK2o&t=5m21s
I can understand a potential argument that Lucas/Burtt wanted to emulate the sound of an F1 race or otherwise highlight the distinct sound effects of the podracers by removing the music, but the scene as it stands goes on far too long at approximately 11 and a half minutes (8 of which are without music) and lacks dynamism.
Even when the music is removed in Episode II's asteroid chase to emphasize the seismic bomb sound, that sequence only lasts about 2 minutes until the music kicks in again.
But in the interests of getting back on topic, I am very interested to hear what Williams' can come up with for Episode VII. Will it even be as good as his prequel material (which was very strong, but not as consistent as the OT's music)?
Stiflers Mom
Banned
For me that whole "Order 66" thing felt so cringeworthy. Don't even get me started on the name..
All these Jedi I don't give a shit about die.
Well.
I don't care.
And I couldn't even root for the other side, because the clone troopers are so bland as well.
All these Jedi I don't give a shit about die.
Well.
I don't care.
And I couldn't even root for the other side, because the clone troopers are so bland as well.
These aren't even the ugly ones. There's far worse like the TIE Sentinel:
Or the TIE Warhead:
BruiserBear
Banned
Screencapped it, just because I felt like it:
Really beginning to like it, look forward to building the Lego model and putting next to the OT X-Wing. (such a geek)
As as huge OT fan, I love the look of this ship. It fits with the style of the OT.
OriginalThinking
Member
It's definitely got the "used universe" look. Something missing from the prequels. For reasons which Lucas explained.
Red Mage
Member
There was a fake outline that surfaced for all three films when the prequels were announced. Whoever wrote it did an awesome job, because I *really* wanted the movies to be sort of like it. I just remembered it because that's what happened in their script. It also didn't require a bunch of retcons (in RotJ Owen is referred to as Obi-wan's brother. It got cut from the final film but made it into the novel).
*sigh*
Dragonborn
Member
The Jedi are overpowered because the last thing they expected was getting shot in the back by their own troops.
Palpatine isn't contacting each individually, I always took it as sort of pre recorded message semt out simultaneously to all clone leaders, activating order 66 which was built into them. As for not caring about them, that's understandable if you didn't take a plunge into EU material (which doesn't even matter anymore).
Buddha Beam
Banned
So what are the odds that we get some sort of trailer at ComicCon next week?
GentlemanCrow
Member
But they are Jedi, they sense shit. We have seen them get out of much tighter situations with higher stakes before this mutiny. Then suddenly for the sake of plot convenience they drop like fools.
Also Palpatine clearly gives the order differently to different troops. He uses one of the troop's names before giving him the go ahead.
I shouldn't have to go through extra material to care about the characters in the films. That's not how a film experience should work. Sure it can be enhanced by novels and comics but it shouldn't be required for me to give a damn.
Wow nailed it.
Dragonborn
Member
iirc, the troopers held no malice, they were just programmed to obey the order. That's why the Jedi couldn't sense it. Yoda sense only because, well he's Yoda. He sensed Jedi dying, and he put two and two together, plus the wookies were beside him, not troopers so it gave him a chance to react.
As for Palpatine doing it one by one, I don't know. I feel like that was just for drammatic effect, especially since Commander Cody was the only somewhat known clone.
brandonh83
Banned
All of that is great. Jedi's last act is terrific. However, it's the only stretch of the movie that I think is really that good. I think III as an overall film from start to finish is better, and despite the third act there being as good as you make it out to be, I also thought III had a terrific third act as well. I suppose we'll disagree about the Anakin and Obi-Wan duel or the Yoda and Palpatine duel and the events leading up to that which involved some really cool stuff with Bail Organa saying fuck this shit let's help the Jedi and so on, but I guess that'll have to be all right.
Laugh as jauntily as you wish, but I think III is a better movie overall. However we're coming from completely different standpoints as I didn't dislike I and II, and I was legitimately into the characters and drama, so that likely has something to do with the perception of the third movie.
I've really been interested in the possible plot leaks, more so than I usually am about movie news. It's really exciting that there's a whole new series of movies with a direction that we have no clue about - no idea where the story is going or ending. With the prequels, we always had some idea of the arc of the story. A completely fresh Star Wars story on such a big scale makes me very happy.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Episode 3 had an opera scene?
When Palpatine tells Anakin the story of Darth Plagueis.
GentlemanCrow
Member
Are you saying Jedi can't sense danger only anger? Where are you getting that? Luke sensed the remote in ANH. It felt no malice towards him, it was just carrying out a program. How about the droids the Jedi have been fighting in the Clone Wars? They are robots, do they feel malice?
And Yoda only sensed it because he's Yoda? Okay, he sensed a disturbance in the force, I get that but why is he the only one? Did no other Jedi sense anything? He sensed it because he has to still be alive in Empire, it's stupid.
On that score and the transmission of the order, if it was simultaneous then surely Yoda wouldn't have sensed it. He'd have been a victim. Instead the mutiny seems to be staggered by Palpatine as Yoda can feel it as having just happened much like Obi wan does in ANH.
brandonh83
Banned
Not gonna happen but I'm still foolishly hoping that Plagueis is the Sith that is trying to be resurrected if those rumors are accurate about someone or a group of people trying to resurrect the Sith order or one of the dead Sith. I think it would be really cool if that one scene in Episode III was actually a nugget of information that would end up being really important later on and it would make Plagueis feel like the true "big bad" of the episodes.
Again, no way that's happening, I just feel like since the name has been dropped and is canon, and the guy was Palpatine's master that he could be a really imposing and ruthless villain.
All of that is great. Jedi's last act is terrific. However, it's the only stretch of the movie that I think is really that good. I think III as an overall film from start to finish is better, and despite the third act there being as good as you make it out to be, I also thought III had a terrific third act as well. I suppose we'll disagree about the Anakin and Obi-Wan duel or the Yoda and Palpatine duel and the events leading up to that which involved some really cool stuff with Bail Organa saying fuck this shit let's help the Jedi and so on, but I guess that'll have to be all right.
Laugh as jauntily as you wish, but I think III is a better movie overall. However we're coming from completely different standpoints as I didn't dislike I and II, and I was legitimately into the characters and drama, so that likely has something to do with the perception of the third movie.
I agree with you in everything but I don't like EP1 and EP2, I watch them whenever they are on but I don't like them, is like if Lucas was in a different state of mind when doing EP3, it feels very different than the other two, darker, dirtier, etc.
brandonh83
Banned
Yeah, I think that "feel" is pretty much on purpose though, he knew it needed to start transitioning to that sort of feel in the originals in terms of art design and with all the bad shit that happens naturally in the narrative, it just makes sense. I actually like the contrast that Episode I establishes, it's definitely more light-hearted and then II and III keep cranking up the darkness. For me it worked sort of like Harry Potter, which was enjoyable for me to watch it go from happy and wondrous to get fucked.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
My gut reaction was to disagree, but you might actually be right. I think Jedi as a whole is easily the weakest of the OT, but that moment with the music and everything is absolute perfection.