Well, I can see that but there is still a gap of how he suddenly is a crazy murderer? Wouldn't it be more in his character to say kidnap the emperor, try to beat his secret life elixir out of him and run away with Padmé?
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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
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Well, I can see that but there is still a gap of how he suddenly is a crazy murderer? Wouldn't it be more in his character to say kidnap the emperor, try to beat his secret life elixir out of him and run away with Padmé?
brandonh83
Banned
Well, I can see that but there is still a gap of how he suddenly is a crazy murderer? Wouldn't it be more in his character to say kidnap the emperor, try to beat his secret life elixir out of him and run away with Padmé?
Yeah I presented what I think or speculate in regards to that in my last post. It's something I wish Lucas would have expanded upon (if I'm right) but the whole eyes changing color and personality shift I think lends at least a bit of validity to how I personally see it. Of course I'm not "definitely right" or anything as it's just my own interpretation. It all did move very fast, maybe too fast. So it's not a complaint that I necessarily disagree with on a factual basis, but I do think that there's a bit of a "Sith juice" element behind it.
Yeah, it's the sudden turn that bothers me the most.
It's probably what frustrates the disappointed fans the most - that Lucas had the potential for something much better but it's just out of reach. If it was Jar Jar Binks all the way, then we wouldn't give a sh*t. ;-)
Anakin's arc would have worked significantly better if it had just been a different actor. Not a single word of his would have to be rewritten, all the role needed was a good actor to give that change more credibility.
I know Lucas has no instincts for acting, and guess it was only a matter of time before he stopped lucking out with good choices and ended up picking a bad one, but what a pick to fumble. Goddamn, what a terrible actor.
It just seemed like they ended up deferring to Qui-Gon's judgment, and allowing Obi-Wan to train him was probably equal parts out of respect for Qui-Gon's death and also worry about Obi-Wan leaving the order if he couldn't fulfill Qui-Gon's last wish.
I know Lucas has no instincts for acting, and guess it was only a matter of time before he stopped lucking out with good choices and ended up picking a bad one, but what a pick to fumble. Goddamn, what a terrible actor.
It just seemed like they ended up deferring to Qui-Gon's judgment, and allowing Obi-Wan to train him was probably equal parts out of respect for Qui-Gon's death and also worry about Obi-Wan leaving the order if he couldn't fulfill Qui-Gon's last wish.
There's a huge amount of truth to this. Hayden Christensen seems to have been picked purely on his headshots. I don't really know if he's actually a terrible actor, there are too many confounding factors and I've literally never seen him in anything else, but at the very least he was the *wrong* actor. And the worst casting of all of Star Wars.
This is one of the reasons Anakin works better in Clone Wars, incidentally.
[edit] I actually probably did see him a long time ago in an episode of Forever Knight, and an episode of Are You Afraid of the Dark? but... uh.... that doesn't reflect well on him either.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think it's less that he's a bad actor (there's a lot of evidence that says otherwise) it's that the choices made by both him AND Lucas in portraying the character penned Christensen into a pretty limited box.
It's a very narrow range of possible emotions to play with, and none of them are particularly appealing. The actor's equivalent of man without a country, essentially.
It's a very narrow range of possible emotions to play with, and none of them are particularly appealing. The actor's equivalent of man without a country, essentially.
Sorcerer
Member
Any body playing the part of Anakin under George's direction was destined to be doomed. Jake Loyd or Hayden Christensen.
His part was written badly, directed badly. No actor could have saved it.
Hayden Christensen was great in Shattered Glass.
George should have learned his lesson with Empire, let someone else direct.
brandonh83
Banned
Hayden isn't bad. It was a mix of Lucas' dialogue, Lucas' direction, and of course some of the actor himself. I thought he was way better and even fine in III and the lack of horrible love scene dialogue helped. There were still some robotic lines like "from my point of view the Jedi are evil!" and such but he didn't write that shit.
Nicktendo86
Member
The very basic plot of the prequels was sound, problems were(in my opinion) it was rushed, a decent writer should have come in to write some decent dialogue, directing and editing were shit. Design work was sublime.
Anakin should have turned in episode 2. That should have been the pt version of Luke finding Vader was his father, a cliffhanger of oh fuck anakin just killed Jedi master whatever. Phantom menace should have had anakin as an adult, a cocky yet charming skilled pilot who meets obi wan who decides on his own back to train him as Jedi.
Edit: I'm sorry Brandon but I thought episode 3 had terrible romantic dialogue, remember " you are so beautiful. Its only because I'm so in love. No because I'm so in love with you. So love has blinded you?" Eurgh
Anakin should have turned in episode 2. That should have been the pt version of Luke finding Vader was his father, a cliffhanger of oh fuck anakin just killed Jedi master whatever. Phantom menace should have had anakin as an adult, a cocky yet charming skilled pilot who meets obi wan who decides on his own back to train him as Jedi.
Edit: I'm sorry Brandon but I thought episode 3 had terrible romantic dialogue, remember " you are so beautiful. Its only because I'm so in love. No because I'm so in love with you. So love has blinded you?" Eurgh
Well, to be fair, his first step off the cliff was in ep2, when he slaughtered the tusken raiders. The scene always feels like an afterthought, though, and doesn't really drive forward his fall.
Nicktendo86
Member
It was bizarre. Utterly utterly bizarre. Oh, I've just slaughtered women and children, let's have a hissy fit and then go back to being a hero.
Man those films piss me off more than they should.
Sorcerer
Member
That scene is supposed to have more context I believe.
In the novel of The Phantom Menace, Anakin as a little boy helps rescue a Tusken raider and I believe brings him to his tribe.
I guess it may have been in the script at one point.
Anakin slaughtering the Tusken Raiders is supposed to show his complete transformation from a kind, caring boy, to a total monster.
brandonh83
Banned
That was one scene. Compared to II's amount of love scenes and bad dialogue, that was nothing. I also got the impression that they were sort of making fun of themselves. I got a playful vibe from it rather than a serious one.
Nicktendo86
Member
Which would have been fine, except he went back to being a hero and Padme thought to herself ummmm this murdering Looney could be marriage material. What?
Edit: Brandon I got that feeling too, or at least that it was MEANT to be, but the dialogue and acting were so bad I couldn't take it serious at all. Natalie Portman looked really odd in that scene as well, my wife alwaya points it out.
Dragonborn
Member
Okay, to be clear, I'm not saying it isn't BS or outlandish. I personally find it a bit out there myself. I'm merely offering an explanation as given by the movies/EU stuff.
APZonerunner
Member
Well, isn't it also just that once he kills Mace there's no going back, he thinks, so he goes to the Temple because at this point it's go along with Palpatine or die himself, and face Padme dying also?
Nicktendo86
Member
Appreciated Dragonborn, don't mean to sound a dick
Liquidsnake
Banned
I liked him that heart transplant movie.
brandonh83
Banned
Pretty much this, also I think a huge factor is that she's pregnant. I don't know that I would have murdered children to save my wife and soon to be born child, but I don't think I would have acted rationally either. If Padme weren't pregnant, I'm not sure that he would have went to the extent that he did, but maybe the dark side just made him act out of reason. I dunno, it's fantasy and I can live with that.
Future Foundation
Member
So, Devin just put up a new Episode VII post in which he speculates (based off of info he's gotten from sources) that Gwendoline Christie's character was gender-swapped:
Also, an update in that post:
EDIT: Fuck it, no tags.
Also, an update in that post:
EDIT: Fuck it, no tags.
TheKaeptain
Banned
The dude from slash film called him out on that a few days ago asking for proof and devin just said it was his guess.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I do like how these scoops Devin's been getting appear to be slowly pulling him back into some semblance of Star Wars fandom. It's kinda fun to watch.
TheKaeptain
Banned
It really is.
and really why are we using spoilers in a thread about rumors and spoilers.
brandonh83
Banned
Most of these rumors largely mean zilch to me, but it's still fun to read. I mean what else can we do at this point? Hopefully they drop the subtitle at Comic-con. Please god I need that subtitle like last year.
Future Foundation
Member
The other Devin post someone made had spoiler tags. I just sorta assumed that was the way it was done. Plus, I thought I'd get shit for not doing it.
I'll take em out if it's okay.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I think we get a subtitle at CC and maybe a CC exclusive teaser.
If a person gets mad because they saw a spoiler in a thread with rumors and spoilers in the title it's their fault. Don't pander to idiots. We're gaf not Hollywood.
If a person gets mad because they saw a spoiler in a thread with rumors and spoilers in the title it's their fault. Don't pander to idiots. We're gaf not Hollywood.
brandonh83
Banned
If that happens and we get a subtitle and a bit of a teaser, all hell is going to break loose in terms of hype. I'm hyped, but at this point with the lack of information and such I know I haven't quite busted the door down in terms of losing my damn mind, but it sounds like that time is fast approaching.
Jables Swan
Member
I don't know who this Devin person is, so I won't be bothering with fake spoilers.
brandonh83
Banned
From starwars.com
Oh well.
Oh well.
Okay, I tried, but with this and that awesome X-Wing design I just cannot control my own hype anymore... Officially on the hype train now.
WyndhamPrice
Member
It's a nice contrast to Kris Tapley's continuing spiral into full on "fuck off, nerds" mode every time someone even whispers "star wars"
Dragonborn
Member
Appreciated Dragonborn, don't mean to sound a dick
No problem, we all know Lucas wasn't the brightest of writers, haha.
No, Hayden really is truly awful. Because it's not as if Anakin is the first character to be graced with Lucas' lack of affinity for writing/directing. There are plenty of actors in both trilogies that were able to elevate what they were given to work with because they're talented actors, or at least talented enough -- Ford, Hamill, Guinness, McGregor, Frank Oz, James Earl Jones, Cushing, even Sam Jackson was fun enough to watch if only because he's Sam Jackson. Haydens lack of acting talent is why he's not on that list.
Now have I seen him in anything else? No, unless you count commercials for Jumper. Will I? Of course not. But it's really hard for me to fathom, looking at episodes II and III, that there's a stronger actor buried underneath there that was single-handedly stifled by Lucas and could shine under, say, PTA or someone.
brandonh83
Banned
As others have stated he's been pretty good in other things. Sometimes you have actors that are just THAT GREAT like the ones you named off but Hayden hadn't had nearly that much experience as those dudes.
I thought Hayden was fine. as time went on to tell he never went on to becoming an acting paragon or anything but i think he did okay. as with most of the PT the real problems were with the dialogue.
I thought his portrayal of anakin's turn was convincing enough but like previously stated the story probably should've had him turn in ep2. it seemed a little crammed in there and his killing of the Tuskens was kind of a goofy way of saying "whoa this guy has a dark side!"
I thought his portrayal of anakin's turn was convincing enough but like previously stated the story probably should've had him turn in ep2. it seemed a little crammed in there and his killing of the Tuskens was kind of a goofy way of saying "whoa this guy has a dark side!"
Dear god, I love that so much.
No one has called him good in other things, just okay, fine, not as bad, etc. These aren't exactly ringing endorsements. No one is saying Hayden is some great talent that Lucas really squandered.
Also, I don't think Hamill or even Ford (whose real talent is more in his personality and charisma than acting prowess) are THAT GREAT of actors either. But they certainly brought a hell of a lot more to the table, and were able to do more with Lucas' stilted writing and complete lack of direction, than Hayden did or is seemingly capable of.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
So, getting back to the Episode VII stuff.
Considering Boyega is a stormtrooper who wants out, and Christie is his superior, I'm wondering...
The parkour kids that just got hired, maybe they're also part of Boyega's squad? Along with Lupita's character, who is rumored to be one of these force-sensitive bad guys (and also a Kenobi relative).
What if their squad is specifically created BECAUSE they're force sensitive, and assigned to Gwendoline Christie's character to go out and hunt down Luke and/or any other jedi that might exist/have been trained by him while he's in hiding/on the run.
So essentially, the chain of command there could look like:
Sydow & Driver: The main bad guys
Christie: The lapdog
Parkour Kids/Nyongo/Boyega: Special Stormtroopers
This also gives Boyega & Ridley extra incentive to turn N'yongo back to the lightside, in that Boyega used to work with her, essentially.
I dunno, just something that occurred to me.
Considering Boyega is a stormtrooper who wants out, and Christie is his superior, I'm wondering...
The parkour kids that just got hired, maybe they're also part of Boyega's squad? Along with Lupita's character, who is rumored to be one of these force-sensitive bad guys (and also a Kenobi relative).
What if their squad is specifically created BECAUSE they're force sensitive, and assigned to Gwendoline Christie's character to go out and hunt down Luke and/or any other jedi that might exist/have been trained by him while he's in hiding/on the run.
So essentially, the chain of command there could look like:
Sydow & Driver: The main bad guys
Christie: The lapdog
Parkour Kids/Nyongo/Boyega: Special Stormtroopers
This also gives Boyega & Ridley extra incentive to turn N'yongo back to the lightside, in that Boyega used to work with her, essentially.
I dunno, just something that occurred to me.
Bucket Mouse
Member
Christie certainly has the cut-glass British accent required of a tight arsed Imperial Officer. It's an intriguing rumour.
EDIT: ^ That's not implausible.
EDIT: ^ That's not implausible.
Sorcerer
Member
Hamil and Ford were in much better. much more interesting movies. The original trilogy was not completely dark and had a lot of humor that gave that made the characters very relate able. What kid did not want to be Luke or Han?
It's hard to care for anyone in the prequels. Even Kenobi is pretty unlikeable in Menace. George's idea of funny was Binks.
I feel for Hayden. In the behind the scenes , you sense how much he cared about the part, probably more than anyone else in the movies. The weight was on his soldiers being Vader, but he was given complete crap to work with.
Does anyone expect there to be something beyond the blue, green and red lightsabers in Episode VII?
My thinking, is since its Disney and Star Wars, both of which make shit tons of money with toys alone, it would make sense from a business standpoint to do so.
Also, I think it would help put JJs stamp on the new movie as well.
If so, I'm hoping for yellow. I read recently, that before Jedis basically started picking there favorite colors (essentially), that green, blue and yellow were for different classes of Jedi. It sounded cool.
My thinking, is since its Disney and Star Wars, both of which make shit tons of money with toys alone, it would make sense from a business standpoint to do so.
Also, I think it would help put JJs stamp on the new movie as well.
If so, I'm hoping for yellow. I read recently, that before Jedis basically started picking there favorite colors (essentially), that green, blue and yellow were for different classes of Jedi. It sounded cool.
Bucket Mouse
Member
It's possible. I'm also envisaging these Jedi Hunters using light whips and light-rimmed axes. Anything to put JJ's stamp on the series' visual iconography while flogging a load of merch.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm also thinking, if Luke has been in exile or is running from the Empire sending force sensitives after him and his trainees (no younglings up in here) in secret, then it's probably very possible that Domnhall Gleeson actually IS his kid. And when we finally meet Luke, he's not going to be alone. He's going to be holding on to what's left of his family after being chased/hiding from the Empire for 30 years.
I mean, maybe it's not his hand holding his old lightsaber from ROTJ. Maybe it's his dead wife's.
Maybe. (shrug) I dunno. Just spitballing.
I do feel like it's possible that JJs decided to tweak the idea of how ineffectual Stormtroopers are by making Gwendoline Christie the commander of a troupe of SUPER-EFFECTIVE Stormtroopers, ones that can parkour all over the fuckin' place and maybe even wield a lightsaber or two.
I mean, maybe it's not his hand holding his old lightsaber from ROTJ. Maybe it's his dead wife's.
Maybe. (shrug) I dunno. Just spitballing.
I do feel like it's possible that JJs decided to tweak the idea of how ineffectual Stormtroopers are by making Gwendoline Christie the commander of a troupe of SUPER-EFFECTIVE Stormtroopers, ones that can parkour all over the fuckin' place and maybe even wield a lightsaber or two.
I agree. Harrison has really good charisma and chemistry though, which can make everything feel so weightless and easy to watch - though he has done some good work. I think it took Hamill awhile to discover his talents as an actor - his only really good scenes were the ones with Yoda in ESB. It wasn't until he started doing broadway and voice overs that he really developed a strong sense of gravitas. I've honestly always really liked Fisher as an actress though, especially in Empire.
Anyways, Hayden is not bad. Mediocre, maybe, but he could have done the part better. I felt like he at least tried to do his best with the material, but like Natalie Portman, too inexperienced at the time to make up for George's shortcomings. I still liked him in some scenes of ROTJ and he seems like a decent guy.
Bucket Mouse
Member
Wasn't there a rumour that the Hunters wore black and chrome or some ish? The prequels' depiction of the clones was an attempt to atone for the perceived ineptitude of the stormtroopers while various games have expanded on the elite trooper idea. My hunch is we will have your vanilla stormtroopers (as seen by Kevin Smith) and a separate force of badasses with their own badass armour.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, the whole "Jedi Hunter" brouhaha sparked from seeing Lupita with contacts in, and people (maybe the parkour kids that just got announced?) wearing silver and black "stormtrooper" gear.
Id be suprised if that didn't happen.
TheKaeptain
Banned
My money is on Gleeson and Llewyn having something to do with the Force.