TheKaeptain
Banned
Imagine if you mixed Leia with the droids...
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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
- Start date
The Elite
BOSS
I think a big problem is everyone is trying to pick which one is the Han, Luke and Leia of the new trilogy.
I'm not sure it works like that. Rey could have the personality of Han and still be a Jedi. Finn could be more like Luke. Poe could be a Leia.
Or they may not be like any of those characters at all.
I'm not sure it works like that. Rey could have the personality of Han and still be a Jedi. Finn could be more like Luke. Poe could be a Leia.
Or they may not be like any of those characters at all.
Come on guys, it's not hard to see why people would like to see Finn become a jedi. I'm in camp "Why not both?", simply because I think it would be pretty nice.
Well put.
Poe has been shown as a pilot in the trailers. If he never runs around half-naked he is already ahead of Leia.
Well put.
Poe has been shown as a pilot in the trailers. If he never runs around half-naked he is already ahead of Leia.
The Elite
BOSS
The suggestion is that you have to be a Jedi to be a really big epic hero.
That isn't the case at all. It's quite possible that he plays the most pivotal part in the film without being a Jedi. We won't know until we see the film.
Pilot doesn't mean he he has Han Solo's personality.
We haven't even heard dialogue out of these characters yet.
Moff
Member
you don't even need to compare them to the OT characters.
rey is the badass warrior woman, strong with the force
poe is the cool daredevil, the best starship pilot in the galaxy
what is finn? he is nothing interesting, nothing big, nothing heroic. he might only be important the same way leia was important, as in she carried the death star plans and she might have saved the heroes life once or twice, but that doesn't mean she is very heroic, she is the sidekick of the three.
and a lot of people hope now finn will be the big important main hero, and if he won't be a jedi chances are low he will be. I havent read the spoilers but I did not get the impression that will change somehow. or even worse now PR implies he will be the jedi and then he will just be the sidekick.
rey is the badass warrior woman, strong with the force
poe is the cool daredevil, the best starship pilot in the galaxy
what is finn? he is nothing interesting, nothing big, nothing heroic. he might only be important the same way leia was important, as in she carried the death star plans and she might have saved the heroes life once or twice, but that doesn't mean she is very heroic, she is the sidekick of the three.
and a lot of people hope now finn will be the big important main hero, and if he won't be a jedi chances are low he will be. I havent read the spoilers but I did not get the impression that will change somehow. or even worse now PR implies he will be the jedi and then he will just be the sidekick.
No, that's not the suggestion. The suggestion is that jedi are fucking awesome. Who wouldn't want to rather be a jedi? They have actual superpowers and wield lightsabers.
The Elite
BOSS
TheKaeptain
Banned
I still think we are going to get only 2 Jedi and a shit load of darkside users. It's something we haven't seen before. By the end of this trilogy a new academy will be set up though.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
From my point of view YOU are overrated.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The Force Awakens is part one of a trilogy. These characters aren't done with by a damn sight.
It's entirely possible Luke doesn't even BELIEVE in Jedi anymore when they find his ass. Kylo & Snoke don't believe in Sith.
You might have to rethink your entire conception of what being a magic wielder of glowsticks even means in this universe by the time the trilogy's done.
Neither was Luke.
That was the point.
It's entirely possible Luke doesn't even BELIEVE in Jedi anymore when they find his ass. Kylo & Snoke don't believe in Sith.
You might have to rethink your entire conception of what being a magic wielder of glowsticks even means in this universe by the time the trilogy's done.
Neither was Luke.
That was the point.
Lightsabers. Superpowers. Who cares if they sucked in the prequel? Everyone did.
They play an enormous role in the universe, they have superpowers, they have awesome weapons.
I was more referring to their role, rather than their personality.
The Elite
BOSS
I'm off the chart, from a certain point of view.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
played. It seems that they no longer play ANY role in the universe by the time The Force Awakens comes around.
It's more the issue about needing a white person to save a black man.
The Elite
BOSS
You realize everyone is going to be saving everyone in these films right. It's not going to be Rey saving Finn all the time. Hell, don't be surprised if Finn has to help out Rey in TFA as well. It's going to go both ways.
Poe might save both their asses at some point.
graffix13
Member
Exactly. The movie isn't even out yet and people are already getting upset.
Why don't you just wait until the movie is out and then voice your displeasure? Just an idea.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
There's a scoreboard, though.
Well the early stuff coming out of MSW did make it seem like Rey was saving Finn all the time.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
MSW was actively pushing the angle that Finn wasn't shit for whatever reasons. They decided to sieze on it as a punchline and then ran it into the dirt. (much in the same way RebelForce Radio has siezed on the idea that Simon Pegg is the ultimate anti-fan and any connection he has to Star Wars is an insult to Star Wars fans)
It's probably not an accurate representation of his role in the film, being as they don't really have any ideas as to the characterizations of ANY of the characters.
Moff
Member
no one will complain if finn blows up the big main threat at the end of TFA and is the celebrated hero of the movie
CrushDance
Banned
What the hell. This is a Disney movie, don't expect some grand message about the real world. And lets not pretend that the hierarchy has never been white men>white women>everything else. Finn is only in the movie to be "progressive", that's it. Yes he'll get his share of of the movie and in the sequels as well, but there is no way that a black man is being put as "the" hero for such a big franchise. People keep bringing up Han solo, Chewy, etc for the old movies and talking about Finn and Rey "balancing" each other. But fail to accept that the star wars films have always been about A) The Skywalkers and B) Luke and Anakin. People bringing up Lando as if he was some crucial character that had tons of screen time. yes, Finn will be in the movie, but make no mistake that he will be playing second fiddle to Rey. When the US brought forth the civil rights act and were all "Okay, black people are people now too", they went and lumped white women into that as well. Because white women suffered so much too. Here in 2015 were' "discussing" about our racially slanted society and feminism, specifically white feminism, overshadows that more than anything else. x_X You think all the talk about strong female characters, strong females in video games, clothing etc is for nothing? Show me the same level of national and international discussion regarding minorities. Because our choice of clothes still seem to define us, the way we talk, look...people are pushing for more strong female characters of the white variety instead of them being there just as eye candy. it's become another stupid game whereby blacks have taken the backseat again.
TheKaeptain
Banned
You can't have a man play second fiddle to a woman. It's just wrong.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah they will, c'mon. People are complaining now because they know for a FACT he's a Jedi, and anything that dispels that conception is BULLSHIT.
Whether or not people will complain doesn't really have shit to do with whether or not his role in the story both a) improves the story and b) works for him as a character.
JJ Abrams didn't hire John Boyega to eat shit for 2 hours. It's not happening.
Yea I know, they've also backed off on that tone recently too.
I'm not speaking for everybody but I could see some level of worry and resentment on the part of some African Americans in that we finally have an AA lead as a part of a super big franchise and he pushed aside for Skywalker wankery. I'm fine with it now that I've had some time to come to terms, but I imagine a few will be pissed if he ends up getting sidelined due to being a non-Jedi and there is a ton of Jedi stuff in Episode 8 (which there probably will be).
Edit:Well that didn't take long at all.
CrushDance
Banned
Who said this?
You know what movie did a great job of this dynamic? The new mission impossible movie. Both were equally skilled, both were clever, tick for tack and all that. Both were evn sexualized but not overly, with emphasis on both their sex's uniqueness. But you know something else that was different? Both characters were white. And yet the fucked up part is that anytime you have a black and white character in the same space, power dynamics come into play for so many peopl. You can't simply divorce a black man being around a white woman constantly without stirring things in peoples minds.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
But Star Wars is "Skywalker Wankery," though. That's what it is. I mean, he's not being pushed aside because of it. He's part of it. A very important part. He was the first actor named. He and Driver were the #1 & #2 castings for this film. There's a reason for that.
I feel SW is much more than that. Stuff like The Old Republic for example, doesn't center around the Skywalker line.
Boyega still has top billing for TFA so who knows. Ep.8 leaks will probably be make or break for a lot of this.
Moff
Member
I absolutely agree, but that's not what we were talking about. we were talking about the finn fans who want to see him being the central hero, like luke. and I can see why they are worried at the moment, that's all I'm saying. but as I said we'll have to wait until the movie is out.
I also agree that no matter how they do it, tons of people will complain about finn. but I meant the finn fans in that context, I have to clarify that. of course there will be tons of idiots complaining if he actually turned out to be the main hero, or heavin forbid, might be rey's lover. but that's a completely different matter.
CrushDance
Banned
This is not going to happen.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Not in the movies it isn't. Not yet, anyway. This is a direct sequel to Return of the Jedi. Every single movie has been about Skywalker shit. This one is about that too. The next two will be as well. Shit is unavoidable.
He's not going to be "pushed aside" by it. He's going to be a big, big part of it. He's one of three leads. He's the POV character (not Rey), he's the eyes and ears by which we re-enter this universe and get re-acquainted. Rey will also have a journey, obviously, but Finn is US. Finn is our in.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Do people not know that sagas were traditionally about one person over their life or about multiple generations of the chosen family?
I'm willing to put my beautiful, hand-crafted avatar on the line and despite knowing next to nothing about the movies I say it will happen in the trilogy.
TheKaeptain
Banned
The only rumor we have about love interest is Poe and Rey but I am not sure that was ever backed up.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think so. I think it was just spec based on the idea that Poe might hit on Rey a couple times when they meet up.
Rey's characterization in this movie seems to mostly be "Leave me the fuck alone, please"
She doesn't seem too interested in people, period. Which is partially why Finn & Han caring what happens to her touches her so much, and is why her helping Finn after he goes after Kylo is a big step. She could have bailed, but she didn't.
I wouldn't be surprised if she never has a romantic encounter with anyone.
Rey's characterization in this movie seems to mostly be "Leave me the fuck alone, please"
She doesn't seem too interested in people, period. Which is partially why Finn & Han caring what happens to her touches her so much, and is why her helping Finn after he goes after Kylo is a big step. She could have bailed, but she didn't.
I wouldn't be surprised if she never has a romantic encounter with anyone.
We'll see how Episode 8 goes but I'm worried that too much of this trilogy is going to be remixing elements from the OG one. I disagree with people hoping for a "I am your father" moment in Ep.8.
As I mentioned earlier, I'm fine with Finn's role in this movie. It's supposed to be the newbie to master type of character and the audience's perspective. It's just whether the stuff at the end is setting up for a change in Ep.8 and most of this marketing is again Abram's doing his usual mystery box routine.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I think that's what is going to happen. Also, the story seems to take her away from the main group very quickly. She might not have time for that type of shit.
CrushDance
Banned
It's on.
And guys, nobody(Or rather I am not) is arguing that it shouldn't be about the Skywalkers. Rather that in light of the current(and unending) friction in the real world with both feminism, sexism and racism being huge sticking points, that the representation of Finn especially is making people worry that it's going to be the same old again. Like, do you guys think that Uhura in Star Trek for example, was cast as a female for no reason? That they thought about putting a black man there? It's always a way to say "See we're inclusive" by putting someone in there that doesn't do much or doesn't have much of an overall impact. "So stop your whining" is always what it ends up as. We(I) want to see Finn be a strong character, not flawless, not magical and not a freaking stereotype.
FriendlyGoat
Member
On top of Finn being the POV, for the next 3.5 months, regardless what happens in the actual film, Finn is gonna be the good guy kids see with the lightsaber on all the shit they'll be getting for Christmas. He is the guy that all the little boys will pretend to be (except for the cool ones who play Rey).
And Finn isn't necessarily pushed aside in favor of Rey. SPOILERS IN THE SPOILER THREAD, I'm gonna give it to you how it all goes down in the end straight so DON'T READ:
And Finn isn't necessarily pushed aside in favor of Rey. SPOILERS IN THE SPOILER THREAD, I'm gonna give it to you how it all goes down in the end straight so DON'T READ:
Finn actively pursues the badguy like a brave badass, stands up to him with the lightsaber despite knowing he doesn't stand a chance, and is disarmed after they tussle. Rey comes in, takes up the weapon, and takes her turn. She doesn't defeat Kylo either, the ground gives way and ends the fight. Then CHEWIE comes in and saves them both as Kylo falls to an unknown fate.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yup. She spends most of 7 like "Fuck off." Then she learns that she doesn't have to be such a loner. And then she runs off to train at the feet of the biggest loner in the galaxy.
There's not gonna be a lot of time for her to fall in love with anyone.
And as a reminder: Just saying "Disney" doesn't mean shit. Disney doesn't have any real creative input into this shit. It's Kathleen Kennedy's show to run, and she gave the keys to JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan.
And yeah, as Goat points out, we don't really know how that fight at the end plays out, specifically. We do know that there's no real winner, based on how it ends and how our heroes get off that rock. It's not so much about defeating the bad guy as it is HELPING EACH OTHER.
But yunno: Scoreboards.
FriendlyGoat
Member
For the record, I am entirely with you on the issues of representation. I think this film is on track to address this more mindfully and purposefully than just about any blockbuster in recent memory. Even if this movie sucks, the people in charge of casting were doing their part. The three central characters are latino, black, and female. They aren't filling in extra side characters to fit a diversity quota. Those are the main characters.
On top of that, the three main badguys are all white men. The masked badass badguy that people are going apeshit over is a woman. The goodguy yoda-esque alien is played by a celebrated black actress. This is all on purpose.
CrushDance
Banned
Well neither of us really knows how this will turn turn out. I'm a bit pessimistic about it all to be honest, but only time will tell.
That is non-Saga stuff. That is the material for the standalone movies. The Saga movies are clearly about the Skywalker family and it's drama. Rey being the (likely) daughter of Han/Leia is just continuing the focus on that blood line for the Saga films.
They can't really do old republic in the Saga films for example, there is no Episode number before I
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I still think she's Luke's kid.
Kylo is Han & Leia's.
Finn might be Lando's. Especially if Rian Johnson is bringing Lando back for 8.
Kylo is Han & Leia's.
Finn might be Lando's. Especially if Rian Johnson is bringing Lando back for 8.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
If Finn is Lando's kid, I'm gonna boo the fuck out of that. Like theres just one nigga in the entire universe so of course the one black kid is his, who just so happen to run into another kid who's related to the heroes in the last movie, who just so happen to be fighting against a kid who's related to the heroes in the last movie.
The Star Wars universe can't be this small can it? Its like in ST '09 when Kirk got beamed down to a random planet and oh hey Old Spock is there like 20 feet away that's convenient here's some flashback exposition and oh hey Scotty is like a few blocks down as well and can beam them up wow look at that
The Star Wars universe can't be this small can it? Its like in ST '09 when Kirk got beamed down to a random planet and oh hey Old Spock is there like 20 feet away that's convenient here's some flashback exposition and oh hey Scotty is like a few blocks down as well and can beam them up wow look at that
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm with you. It's so on-the-fucking-nose. It's why I'm hoping it turns out to be bunk.
But Lando having a kid was an idea being kicked around in the earliest drafts. That attribute has jumped characters through development at least once. Maybe it got jettisoned completely. But I'm figuring there's a reason Finn doesn't have a last name, just like Rey doesn't.
Kylo Ren = title to obscure his parentage
Rey = no last name; she's related to someone.
Finn = no last name; he's related to someone.
FriendlyGoat
Member
I just can't get behind the idea of him being Calrissian. It would seem a little jarring for him to start with the badguys, unless he was a bastard child of some sort. Then in that case, I couldn't see him actually going by Calrissian. I'm hoping the name was obscured as part of an effort to keep the main characters mysterious, you know, a little mystery box. Imagine if they had just Rey without a last name, that would be a little TOO obvious what was going on. With Finn lacking a surname too it could [seemingly] go either way.
Of course, this all means that if he is actually related to Lando (hell, even Mace Windu) my eyes will roll out of my head and I will feel a little dead inside.