CreepingFear
Member
If the rumors of him going into exile after his students get slaughtered are true, maybe he's like "shit, maybe the old jedi were right not to have attachments".
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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
- Start date
If the rumors of him going into exile after his students get slaughtered are true, maybe he's like "shit, maybe the old jedi were right not to have attachments".
I don't think so. Luke knows from experience that love is what defeats the dark side. I think it's more likely he's just come to the conclusion that the best strategy for him is to wait and trust in the will of the Force. He sends the lightsaber into space knowing that the Force will guide it to the correct person.
I suppose it's possible that the Jedi and the New Republic are not best friends, so Luke feels he has nowhere to turn to. After all, in the later EU he explicitly separated the Jedi from the Galactic Alliance because he didn't want them to become a police force for the government like the old Jedi had become under the Galactic Republic.
CreepingFear
Member
EU's dead. EU's dead.
I know, but they're free to pick and choose elements that they like. This is already being done in the new canon.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I actually have a feeling that's what they're going to do.
It is, but pieces can be (and are being) reincorporated. Apparently that new mobile game Uprising is bringing in a bunch of EU stuff. It's a small step, but it's a step.
I don't really see how else it would logically go following the story dynamics of the saga so far. Part of the whole point of the Jedi Order being portrayed the way they were in the prequels was to make the point that they had lost their way partially due to their entrenched dogmatism over the course of a thousand years of navel gazing and partially due to their ever-increasing role as military police for the state. Luke is a new kind of Jedi, one more in harmony with the Living Force like Qui-Gon. He may have fought for the Rebellion, but when the Rebellion becomes the state and inherits all of the baggage that that role carries, would he really want the Jedi to get caught up in the same problems that brought the old one down?
Even if things went off the rails in the later EU, this was one of the better concepts that it explored - that the heroes can become the villains. Unlike the PT where the heroes were always actually the villains (since the Empire didn't overthrow the Republic, it simply transformed into the Republic with the corrupt senate going along with everything willingly), the heroes can still become villains through the forces that act upon them once they gain power, like how the Galactic Alliance slowly began turning into a new authoritarian state following Corellia's rebellion. I don't think Luke would want his followers to get involved in that sort of stuff.
I would love it if the New Republic and the Jedi had a rocky relationship because Luke wanted to keep the Jedi as peace keepers rather than soldiers. Even more I'd like it if the New Republic and some sort of core world imperial remnant signed a treaty after years of weary war and the heroes of the OT find themselves kicked to the sidelines - Luke's Jedi being distrusted, Leia's hardline anti-imperials outside of the political mainstream, forcing her to establish the Resistance to counter rising radical threats like the First Order. I could totally see the NR's senate quickly becoming populated once more with ex-"Republicans" due to a need to get people with "experience" in power after the galaxy fragments and the NR decides that it needs to establish order or else collapse. This sort of thing happens enough regularly in the real world that it's a plausible scenario.
Even better if Lando smooth-talks his way to the chancellorship and secretly funds the Resistance.
Even if things went off the rails in the later EU, this was one of the better concepts that it explored - that the heroes can become the villains. Unlike the PT where the heroes were always actually the villains (since the Empire didn't overthrow the Republic, it simply transformed into the Republic with the corrupt senate going along with everything willingly), the heroes can still become villains through the forces that act upon them once they gain power, like how the Galactic Alliance slowly began turning into a new authoritarian state following Corellia's rebellion. I don't think Luke would want his followers to get involved in that sort of stuff.
I would love it if the New Republic and the Jedi had a rocky relationship because Luke wanted to keep the Jedi as peace keepers rather than soldiers. Even more I'd like it if the New Republic and some sort of core world imperial remnant signed a treaty after years of weary war and the heroes of the OT find themselves kicked to the sidelines - Luke's Jedi being distrusted, Leia's hardline anti-imperials outside of the political mainstream, forcing her to establish the Resistance to counter rising radical threats like the First Order. I could totally see the NR's senate quickly becoming populated once more with ex-"Republicans" due to a need to get people with "experience" in power after the galaxy fragments and the NR decides that it needs to establish order or else collapse. This sort of thing happens enough regularly in the real world that it's a plausible scenario.
Even better if Lando smooth-talks his way to the chancellorship and secretly funds the Resistance.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
It's more just the broad strokes of the plot that have leaked rather than specific details, there's a lot of time to fill in the 120ish minutes of Star Wars that we're getting.
From the trailers and that recent Instagram post alone, you can have a good guess at how things are going down.
From the trailers and that recent Instagram post alone, you can have a good guess at how things are going down.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Have I missed something? All I know from the trailer is that the old characters will feature, and the Empire is on the rise. None of it spoils the plot without research of some further context. If people go looking for info, they'll usually find it, and that's their fault.
Red Mage
Member
Unless they came into existence between III and IV. It sounds like nonsense, but it could work if done properly. For example, failed or retired Jedi who don't want the Jedi Order from the Prequels back, since the Order frowned on love and attachments. However, some fell to the dark side in their zeal.
Haloid1177
Banned
I'm more convinced because of the stuff saying he doesn't go with Rey to look for Luke.
Haloid1177
Banned
Can someone walk me through the GAF backlash for making Daisy the Jedi? I just don't get it.
I'm not opposed to her being a jedi, I'm opposed to the idea of a Skywalker being the hero over Finn.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They're both heroes. Two variations on a similar theme.
One isn't "the hero" over the other, really. And there's still two more movies coming to help flesh that out.
At the end of this movie, one of these characters will begin a very specific journey. But that doesn't negate the journey the other character will have made throughout Episode 7, either.
One isn't "the hero" over the other, really. And there's still two more movies coming to help flesh that out.
At the end of this movie, one of these characters will begin a very specific journey. But that doesn't negate the journey the other character will have made throughout Episode 7, either.
FriendlyGoat
Member
You are of course aware this is the first of a trilogy right? Having him get to be the big jedi hero in the first film is kinda blowing the load early. Give this cool character the opportunity to grow!
And it's not like he doesn't get his heroic moments in the film. Hell, just standing up to Kylo--especially because he is outmatched--is pretty brave stuff. He doesn't have the skills now, but I'm confident they will come.
Part of my excitement for the new SW was having a First Order stormtrooper turn into the hero; having him jobbed and recused by a fucking Skywalker leaves a mighty bad taste in my mouth.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This isn't professional wrestling. He's not "jobbing." There's no rankings. Rey's not gonna get a belt at the end of this.
He's still going to be a hero. Him doing what he's doing isn't DIMINISHED by the fact he gets hurt while doing it. I seriously doubt it's going to play like that in the moment.
Besides which, both of them need to be rescued by Chewie. So is Rey "jobbing" to Chewbacca?
Did Luke "job" to Vader at the end of Empire because he had to be rescued by Leia & Lando? Did that diminish Luke's heroism throughout the entirety of Empire?
The Elite
BOSS
Just because he needs rescuing doesn't mean he isn't a hero.
We see fiction with the hero needing to be rescued all the time.
Han Solo needed the entire first act of Jedi to be rescued and he's a badass.
Yeah, I mean Luke was a chump.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Huh.
Haloid1177
Banned
So if she's a Solo it's fine then right?
TheKaeptain
Banned
Do you understand sagas? This series is about the Skywalkers.
Spiritreaver
Member
Thank you. I don't understand this discord at all. At the end of the original trilogy Luke wasn't the only beloved hero. It's like people think placing Rey or Finn as the "main" hero some how negates the other character's importance.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Of course not.
The Elite
BOSS
I know I am stating the obvious. I'm just surprised that people don't understand that their relationship will be co-dependent.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
I'm also on the side of "don't make Finn look like a punk to prop up Rey". I really hope the execution shows that co-dependency in an effective way, because Finn
will kill a bunch of people's hopes and dreams. Story justified or not.
People are currently very hyped by that idea.
not being a Jedi
People are currently very hyped by that idea.
Haloid1177
Banned
My biggest issue with all this comes from the fact that Finn kicks ass the entire movie and Rey kinda doesn't. And then it switches at the end. So like Finn totally gets his fair share of badassery. Han Solo wasn't a Jedi but is genuinely more loved than Luke. I don't get why it can't be a similar situation.
SomeRandomWeirdGuy
Member
Finn not being a jedi literally means I won't see the damn movie. John Boyega is the only reason this thing has interested me at all, and him getting kicked to the curb to make the real jedi look good is a load of shit. I don't give a damn if "a girl saves the day", I don't even care if she's the real main character or any of that, I just wanted Boyega to be the damn jedi.
Haloid1177
Banned
Or he can just be a badass that isn't a Jedi.
Seriously waiting for a good response as to why Finn has to be THE JEDI.
FriendlyGoat
Member
Setting parameters for your enjoyment and prejudging a film based on a mixture of incomplete information and your own, likely off, assumptions three and half months before it is even out is a bit too much.
If you like the idea of Boyega as a Jedi (or even just a hero) so much, why would you dismiss the movie outright if it doesn't happen right away? Wouldn't be way more interesting and entertaining and cool if he was the character who got to have, you know, character development? Wouldn't you want to see him evolve from a scrub stormtrooper into some sort of hero? These characters aren't Jedi, not yet at least. Luke wasn't a Jedi in the first movie. He wasn't even a real Jedi in the second. Even if he doesn't get to be a Jedi, that is a silly reason to dismiss the movie and him as a character.
Don't be that guy.
The Elite
BOSS
I haven't seen it yet either. Some of the best characters in Star Wars are not Jedis.
There is nothing wrong with it.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Honestly? Because the context is different. You're right on one thing, we know for a fact that Jedi/Skywalker = Main Character in Star Wars, but that was fine in the case of Han because he was still a bad ass and got plenty of time to develop as someone that could lead his own stories.
And to be really blunt: Luke and Han are both white guys.
Unfortunately, this is a situation where two different demographics are very annoyed of playing second fiddle in big movies like this: white women and black people in general (but in this case black men).
One is thrown down as a love interest far too often, the other a satellite character or the sidekick (or the dead character, or the sacrificial lamb).
I like the idea of Rey having a much bigger and active role than Leia or, ugh, Padme. But I don't want to see Finn sidekicking. Like War Machine, Falcon, and many other examples.
There's also the other situation: they've been showing Finn with a lightsaber, not Rey. That type of swerve normally works I guess, but in this case? It's a bad idea. Because it's going to be a major letdown.
I don't know if you are black or not, but I am, and in the many circles I'm at, even the casual ones, seeing Finn with a lightsaber had a positive impact on people I hadn't seen before. They thought, "oh my god, a black person is going to be THE lead in a major sci-fi franchise." He will get to be the guy, the one that saves the galaxy.
This will kill that dream, and a lot of that positive impact will be fool's gold.
If the co-dependency thing works, cool. But this is a very thin tightrope JJ and co are walking. Especially in our current environment.
Flow-Walker
Banned
Is Han Solo any less of a hero than Luke just because he doesn't use a lightsaber?
SomeRandomWeirdGuy
Member
Because I've never cared especially about the gunslinger characters. Sure, I liked Han Solo, but I've never been a part of this massive cult that surrounds him. He's not that interesting to me. Luke was and is my favorite of the OT.
The Jedi "role" in the story is the one I care about, and he's the only actor of the bunch that I have an attachment towards (been an Attack the Block fan for years and was excited when he made the shortlist for this movie). I like swords, I like sword fights, that's the particular part of Star Wars that makes me like it (besides the Clones, which won't be in this movie either). I don't care too much about Rey becoming the main character (though I would Finn to have an equal role in the end), I wouldn't even care if they both ended up Jedi, I just really want Boyega to be one.
Yes, he has the chance to become a Jedi down the line, but I really don't have much faith in the creators on this. If they're already messing up Finn now then I don't see why I should trust him with them over the next movies. Especially since we're being presented with Finn as the Jedi character, bait and switches like that are cheap.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
He wasn't the main character, point blank. And if only Rey's the Jedi, then neither will Finn (and he sure won't be seen as anything close to that judging by that Kylo fight), even if he's a cool character.
Haloid1177
Banned
So I guess my question then stems from do you consider Han Solo a sidekick to Luke? Because I get the feeling Boyega is gonna have a role like that, even if he isn't the pilot. And if he is, I don't consider him a sidekick, but a co-lead.
I guess I just don't get the appeal of him being a Jedi, mainly because I'm kinda sick of Jedi and Sith at this point and want more interesting characters not related to the factions.
FriendlyGoat
Member
It's been said before, but it is strongly looking like Finn will be playing the role of audience surrogate, and likely sharing that role with Rey. That is different from the role Han played. Finn and Rey are both the new guys who are experiencing all this new shit on a larger scale.
Even though Finn isn't a Jedi in this one (and it doesn't look like Rey is either, Luke is probably the only real Jedi in the movie), that position is important because we'll likely be seeing events from both his and Rey's perspective. Just because he isn't a trained force user in this first film doesn't mean he is automatically the sidekick. Maybe he'll become that down the road, but we know literally nothing about the coming films.
What we DO know is that we'll be seeing most of the film from Finn's perspective. We DO know he is the guy to step up heroically to the badguy. You can say he gets "jobbed", but that is disingenuous. It could just as easily be his first defeat that he must later overcome.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Maybe people should not be mad when their expectations for something, which they have no control over, aren't met. All that should matter is if the movie is well made. If everything makes sense in context to the story there isn't going to be a problem.
Also, inb4 "They're toying with our expectations by putting him front and center" because that's ignoring how marketing for what are essentially toys made for boy's works.
Also, inb4 "They're toying with our expectations by putting him front and center" because that's ignoring how marketing for what are essentially toys made for boy's works.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The only fuck-up I see JJ making isn't so much on the characterization side (because I think he's got a really solid idea of what people want, and how to give it to them without it seeming too much like pandering to those needs) but I absolutely do see Finn's last name possibly being Calrissian.
Which would be so on the-fucking-nose.
Which would be so on the-fucking-nose.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Yes, and George Lucas has said the same. He's the sidekick with opposite morals.
I will say this though, things are also slightly different because Han wasn't a POV character that often in the original trilogy.
TheKaeptain
Banned
kid,
You shouldn't let your expectations ruin stuff for you. That's the biggest problem with viewers. They expect the story to cater to them.
You shouldn't let your expectations ruin stuff for you. That's the biggest problem with viewers. They expect the story to cater to them.
From everything I have heard Finn is fucking awesome as shit in the movie.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Yeah, that expectations stuff? Quit it. Don't act like you know how I rate movies or any media. And don't tell people that they should just shut up because they are hoping for something in a movie.
Nevemind that marketing is all about building expectations.
I've stated my argument very clearly. To market Finn as a potential Jedi and then snatch that idea away is not a good look. Because people are going to find out that he's really not and flip a shit.
But hey, maybe the execution will prevent that, maybe the movie is looking like a Luke style arc for more than one character. Not impossible.
Flow-Walker
Banned
What if he becomes a Jedi as well but not until Episode VIII?
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Again, not impossible. And if they throw some hints in VII, cool.
But if he's absolutely not, if the images and promotions with him holding a lightsaber is just a ploy, that's not a good look at all, regardless of execution.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Marketing is about lying to people to get them to buy something.
Moff
Member
finn won't be han solo, though. poe will.
finn will probably be a leia kind of character. she supported the other two characters, had some nice quotes and that's about it. if she would not have been a woman she would have been pretty boring and forgettable. and I think people might be afraid that this is all what finn will be, just without the girl bonus.
I mean I am not complaining, I love that rey will be the hero and if I had to choose I would have chosen her, but I understand where the finn fans come from, especially if they finall wanted to see a really big epic hero of their ethnicity on the big screen.
so far it's only a concern, though. we will have to wait until we saw it to judge that.