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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]

B

Bucket Mouse

Member
BocoDragon said:
I would accept a myriad of origins for how Vader came to be. But the one we got was not of cinematic importance. The downfall of a petulent wierdo is not something you package as a big Joseph Campbell style myth, and if you did, you would have to communicate that through clues in the narrative. Nothing in the prequels tells the audience "this guy is a creep and that's going to be a problem". They treat him like a great hero narratively, but all of us humans in the audience have a completely different take.
Click to expand...

You talk a lot of sense here.

Then you had to ruin it all by being one of those misguided "RotS is better than RotJ" heathens ;)
 
B

Branduil

Member
GentlemanCrow said:
Yoda was never meant to fight. He was meant to represent the unknown nature of the force. The spiritual side. This much is obvious from his dialogue and that his stance on the physical side of the force being thoroughly negative in Empire.

George narrowed the idea of what makes a Jedi - by turning them as a group - into a pseudo-spiritual police force with glow stick batons. The OT presented them as a near dead religion that few knew of and even fewer believed in.

I won't go into the absurd idea that an entire culture can be wiped from public consciousness in under twenty years. We still talk about dinosaurs fondly, FFS.

In the OT anyone could be force sensitive - multiple interviews around the time indicated that becoming strong in the force was only a matter of training and time. Rather than there being a blood test. Another simplification that removed the spiritual angle.

Yoda was a powerful being. More or less the living force incarnate. More interested in what Luke felt than rather what he could do. Even when they were training physically it's more to do with him mastering his body than wielding a weapon. The one time he does whip out the saber it's against Yoda's instruction.

The implication is the force is more than just a power up. Not all Jedi should have wielded lightsabers. Why not other weapons? Why not just the force? Why would they have a fucking dress code or a temple in the middle of the republic capital? Especially if they were mostly dried up as the OT suggested.

"The force surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter."

In short Yoda represents pretty much everything that's wrong with the prequels.
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
GentlemanCrow said:
Yoda was never meant to fight. He was meant to represent the unknown nature of the force. The spiritual side. This much is obvious from his dialogue and that his stance on the physical side of the force being thoroughly negative in Empire.

George narrowed the idea of what makes a Jedi - by turning them as a group - into a pseudo-spiritual police force with glow stick batons. The OT presented them as a near dead religion that few knew of and even fewer believed in.

I won't go into the absurd idea that an entire culture can be wiped from public consciousness in under twenty years. We still talk about dinosaurs fondly, FFS.

In the OT anyone could be force sensitive - multiple interviews around the time indicated that becoming strong in the force was only a matter of training and time. Rather than there being a blood test. Another simplification that removed the spiritual angle.

Yoda was a powerful being. More or less the living force incarnate. More interested in what Luke felt than rather what he could do. Even when they were training physically it's more to do with him mastering his body than wielding a weapon. The one time he does whip out the saber it's against Yoda's instruction.

The implication is the force is more than just a power up. Not all Jedi should have wielded lightsabers. Why not other weapons? Why not just the force? Why would they have a fucking dress code or a temple in the middle of the republic capital? Especially if they were mostly dried up as the OT suggested.

"The force surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter."

In short Yoda represents pretty much everything that's wrong with the prequels.
Click to expand...

In fairness to the mythology of the prequels, and to The Clone Wars' credit (the series), they do a much better job than the prequel movies of demonstrating why the Jedi failed, and Yoda realizes what you just explained: The Jedi were fools to believe that the Force was mearly a powerup. By the end of the series, in its incomplete but very good 6th season, we see Yoda's final transformation into the master that acts as a conduit for the Living Force and teaches Luke that, no, the Jedi weren't soldiers, but masters of the Force.
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
You would think that they could get so many storm trooper extras for absolutely free with how many star wars stormtrooper clubs there are in all the major cities. Good to hear that there will be guys in actual suits.
 
G

GentlemanCrow

Member
Joeytj said:
In fairness to the mythology of the prequels, and to The Clone Wars' credit (the series), they do a much better job than the prequel movies of demonstrating why the Jedi failed, and Yoda realizes what you just explained: The Jedi were fools to believe that the Force was mearly a powerup. By the end of the series, in its incomplete but very good 6th season, we see Yoda's final transformation into the master that acts as a conduit for the Living Force and teaches Luke that, no, the Jedi weren't soldiers, but masters of the Force.
Click to expand...

I am sure other properties do a very good job at apologising for the mistakes the prequels made. But that's all it will ever be, other writers, writing themselves out of George's hole.

It is working in a universe that irritates me. That is so foreign to the Star Wars I cherish.

I don't want to spend anymore time watching prequel related media. It will only ever be polishing a turd. The show might be great, amazing even. Regardless, it's foundation is so shoddy it doesn't matter.

I don't think those films can be validated by other media. They should stand up for themselves. Like all other films. Like the originals did. Expanded media is fine, it can be fun but it shouldn't have to fix glaring mistakes with the original product.

If anything, the fact that other creative individuals made the show (apparently) better than the prequels or at least more tolerable proves that George should have had other writers tackle the second draft of the prequels. But that might have bruised his ego.

All I know is that given the framework of only the original trilogy films, anyone in this thread could write a better prequel trilogy. George's effort reads like a "Don'ts of filmmaking". He was too close, too narrow of vision.

I hope they remake them within my lifetime, I really do.
 
B

BlueDogAnchorite

Member
Joeytj said:
In fairness to the mythology of the prequels, and to The Clone Wars' credit (the series), they do a much better job than the prequel movies of demonstrating why the Jedi failed, and Yoda realizes what you just explained: The Jedi were fools to believe that the Force was mearly a powerup. By the end of the series, in its incomplete but very good 6th season, we see Yoda's final transformation into the master that acts as a conduit for the Living Force and teaches Luke that, no, the Jedi weren't soldiers, but masters of the Force.
Click to expand...

Even though I love the Prequels, I find that the tv show did a much better job of showing why the Jedi failed. I agree with you there.
 
C

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
^yeah yoda fighting was pure fanservice, but it also seemed to me that he was forced to do it just because noone else could stop Palpatine or Dooku. I mean, he was there watching these guys making short work of his proteges, how should he have reacted to that?
 
Darkmakaimura

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
So, Shatner might be making a cameo or full comeback in Star Trek 3. I dunno. He's gonna need to lose some weight.

Edit: Wrong thread.
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
So, do people think this legit render/art for SW7?

Ov2vrML.jpg
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
I'm willing to roll with it.

They finally managed to mash-up Cylons and Stormtroopers into a single imposing bad guy.

(the article points out that unlike this concept art, the Troopers would not be wearing hoods in the movie)
 
G

Guy.brush

Member
GentlemanCrow said:
I am sure other properties do a very good job at apologising for the mistakes the prequels made. But that's all it will ever be, other writers, writing themselves out of George's hole.

It is working in a universe that irritates me. That is so foreign to the Star Wars I cherish.

I don't want to spend anymore time watching prequel related media. It will only ever be polishing a turd. The show might be great, amazing even. Regardless, it's foundation is so shoddy it doesn't matter.

I don't think those films can be validated by other media. They should stand up for themselves. Like all other films. Like the originals did. Expanded media is fine, it can be fun but it shouldn't have to fix glaring mistakes with the original product.

If anything, the fact that other creative individuals made the show (apparently) better than the prequels or at least more tolerable proves that George should have had other writers tackle the second draft of the prequels. But that might have bruised his ego.

All I know is that given the framework of only the original trilogy films, anyone in this thread could write a better prequel trilogy. George's effort reads like a "Don'ts of filmmaking". He was too close, too narrow of vision.

I hope they remake them within my lifetime, I really do.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I would take any bet that Lucas 1976 vision of what the Clone Wars would be when he wrote that single line into the original STAR WARS script was drastically different than what we got with the prequels. It was probably more akin to THX1138. Clones rebelling against their creators with the Jedi possibly taking the moral high ground.
Also agree on Yoda. It is a shame that the man who wrote the LAST CRUSADE scene where Henry Jones Senior scares birds with his umbrella to fight off a plane or "the pen is mightier than the sword" deemed it necessary to have Yoda bounce around with a lightsaber.
 
F

FriendlyGoat

Member
Demoncarnotaur said:
So, do people think this legit render/art for SW7?
Click to expand...
I'm inclined to believe it's legit. I think the design is very good, and it works surprisingly well as a mashup of the PT's cleaner aesthetic, the OT stormtrooper design, and elements of the cheesier McQuarrie concept art and older sci-fi serial influences.

To me it even seems inspired by the classic image of medieval knights in shining armor, and the seam on the helmet may imply the face is removable (or perhaps flips up like a face mask a la Iron Man...). I'm obviously reaching way out there with my personal interpretation, but the image of a an actual knight would feed well into the rumors of an aristocratic guard. Perhaps it would borrow even heavier from the original stormtrooper concept with matching silver lightsabers and a chrome shield. One could always hope...
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
Yeah, it looks real to me as well.

At the very least, I am hoping it is legit. While the concept of chrome sounds a little silly, it works well in the render, and I love the armor design.

Edit* new pic:

IYCN3ci.jpg
 
Liamario

Liamario

Banned
Related Article Re chrome trooper
The cloak is particularly interesting. I have to say, I think the trooper looks pretty cool. We have heard these are the elite guard that serve the main bad guy, sort of like General Grievous’ MagnaGuards if we had to make a comparison. However, Jay at Indie Revolver says:

We’ve not heard this from anyone directly.
Our source was pretty on in their initial description about chrome Stormtroopers:

The design of the helmet is not unlike the standard Stormtrooper “cranium.” The mouth is a little longer, the face a little longer. The eyes are a single visor like the recent EPVII Stormtrooper helmet that is out there. But the eyes point up at the corner and down, almost like if the visor intersected with an X on both ends. x——x Unlike the classic Stormtrooper design, there is no black band above the eyes.
The only thing missing was the cloak! However, Jay states:

The chrome troopers do not actually wear a hood or covering in the film. The metal collar stands up from the torso armor and curves up on the sides before dipping down again at the back.


I’m geeking out here and all I can say is that Star Wars: Episode VII is going to rock.
Click to expand...
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
I do like the idea of Gwendolyne Christie rocking that costume, hunting Skywalker & Co. through a snowy/forested terrain, cloaking/decloaking like a Predator.

That could be a pretty interesting dynamic that Star Wars really hasn't had before.
 
L

LastNac

Member
GentlemanCrow said:
Yoda was never meant to fight. He was meant to represent the unknown nature of the force. The spiritual side. This much is obvious from his dialogue and that his stance on the physical side of the force being thoroughly negative in Empire.

George narrowed the idea of what makes a Jedi - by turning them as a group - into a pseudo-spiritual police force with glow stick batons. The OT presented them as a near dead religion that few knew of and even fewer believed in.

I won't go into the absurd idea that an entire culture can be wiped from public consciousness in under twenty years. We still talk about dinosaurs fondly, FFS.

In the OT anyone could be force sensitive - multiple interviews around the time indicated that becoming strong in the force was only a matter of training and time. Rather than there being a blood test. Another simplification that removed the spiritual angle.

Yoda was a powerful being. More or less the living force incarnate. More interested in what Luke felt than rather what he could do. Even when they were training physically it's more to do with him mastering his body than wielding a weapon. The one time he does whip out the saber it's against Yoda's instruction.

The implication is the force is more than just a power up. Not all Jedi should have wielded lightsabers. Why not other weapons? Why not just the force? Why would they have a fucking dress code or a temple in the middle of the republic capital? Especially if they were mostly dried up as the OT suggested.

"The force surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter."

In short Yoda represents pretty much everything that's wrong with the prequels.
Click to expand...

Great post.

Honestly, the OT always gave the impression that Jedi were very much more pilgrim-like in approach, constantly wondering the universe to write wrongs and help individuals. The prequels militarized them and in turn made them more responsive than proactive.

Kevin J. Anderson gets a lot of flack and I don't know why. Tales of the Jedi depicted Jedi as I had always envisioned them. These were Jedi that explored and traveled; not everyone of them equipped with a lightsaber.
 
R

Retro

Member
GentlemanCrow said:
Yoda was never meant to fight. He was meant to represent the unknown nature of the force. The spiritual side. This much is obvious from his dialogue and that his stance on the physical side of the force being thoroughly negative in Empire.

George narrowed the idea of what makes a Jedi - by turning them as a group - into a pseudo-spiritual police force with glow stick batons. The OT presented them as a near dead religion that few knew of and even fewer believed in.

I won't go into the absurd idea that an entire culture can be wiped from public consciousness in under twenty years. We still talk about dinosaurs fondly, FFS.

In the OT anyone could be force sensitive - multiple interviews around the time indicated that becoming strong in the force was only a matter of training and time. Rather than there being a blood test. Another simplification that removed the spiritual angle.

Yoda was a powerful being. More or less the living force incarnate. More interested in what Luke felt than rather what he could do. Even when they were training physically it's more to do with him mastering his body than wielding a weapon. The one time he does whip out the saber it's against Yoda's instruction.

The implication is the force is more than just a power up. Not all Jedi should have wielded lightsabers. Why not other weapons? Why not just the force? Why would they have a fucking dress code or a temple in the middle of the republic capital? Especially if they were mostly dried up as the OT suggested.

"The force surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter."

In short Yoda represents pretty much everything that's wrong with the prequels.
Click to expand...

This is a good post and you should feel good. Pretty much nails my feelings on the dissonance between the original trilogy and the prequels. Bravo.
 
L

LastNac

Member
BobbyRoberts said:
It's mostly because even measured against the benchmark of "licensed merchandise/genre fiction" he's not a good writer.
Click to expand...

Hey man, Tales of the Jedi was great...

Honestly. why do you hate the EU so much? It's like you just watched the movies and started identifying yourself as a big self-professed Star Wars. Then one day you got into an argument with someone who told you Boba Fett was alive and you've been pissed off ever since.

Who hurt you, Bobby?
 
T

TCRS

Banned
GentlemanCrow said:
I am sure other properties do a very good job at apologising for the mistakes the prequels made. But that's all it will ever be, other writers, writing themselves out of George's hole.
Click to expand...

I like what James Luceno did in Darth Plagueis, i.e. explaining why the trade federation does what it does, why it's important etc. I really like how he bundled the clusterfuck of lose ends in some way that it makes sense. It's not perfect, but it is plausible.
 
L

LastNac

Member
TCRS said:
I like what James Luceno did in Darth Plagueis, i.e. explaining why the trade federation does what it does, why it's important etc. I really like how he bundled the clusterfuck of lose ends in some way that it makes sense. It's not perfect, but it is plausible.
Click to expand...

OT, but is the book good. Loved Rise of Darth Vader. Thought it was really good and felt like a proper sequel to ROTS.
 
T

TCRS

Banned
LastNac said:
OT, but is the book good. Loved Rise of Darth Vader. Thought it was really good and felt like a proper sequel to ROTS.
Click to expand...

Well I do, but then I love every Sith story. I had goosebumps reading the prologue, just love the way it's written. But even generally it's viewed as a good book that tells the story leading up to Ep I. I recommend it.
 
B

BlueDogAnchorite

Member
sphagnum said:
I don't know why it's supposed to be difficult to believe that the Jedi can have trouble sensing who the villains are. By the time of TPM, the Sith have been thought to be extinct for a thousand years. There's no reason to believe that they are back until Qui-Gon gets killed. Following that, they have zero reason to believe Palpatine would be a Sith until the Clone Wars start and he starts becoming increasingly more powerful. Just because they're telepaths doesn't mean they know everything or can sense everything properly; Yoda tells Luke in ESB that it is difficult to see the future because it is always in motion. Palpatine is incredibly powerful, essentially space Satan, so using the "shroud of the dark side" to obstruct things is only proper and enhances his stature. Sensing that "the dark side surrounds the Chancellor" doesn't necessarily mean "HE MUST BE THE SITH LORD" if he's being manipulated, or it's someone around the Chancellor, etc. They don't even know if Dooku is the Sith master or apprentice.

That said, we're going to have to agree to disagree otherwise because I guess it comes down to opinion. I know that George narrowed the possibilities of what the Jedi could be. That's what makes the story more interesting, at least to me, as it enhances Yoda's character and teachings in the OT. Yoda knows why wars do not make one great. Yoda knows that the emperor is powerful - he duped the entire Jedi order for years and orchestrated a massive galactic civil war so that he would win either way! Yoda knows why Jedi ought not to crave adventure and excitement. Previously we accepted these because they made sense for the archetype that Yoda portrayed. Now there is extra weight to it because Yoda has experienced these things as a character. Likewise, it gives much more gravity to Luke's situation at the end of RotJ, as he is not only now tasked with rebuilding the Jedi, but doing so correctly, in a way much more in alignment with the living Force. Anakin brought balance to the Force by bringing it back to a pure state; he eliminated the bureaucratic space wizard knights who supported a corrupt "republic" and he eliminated the more obviously evil Sith. Luke has to now make sure that the Jedi don't become pawns of a New Republic that has the exact same potential to slide into an empire. It's a very good setup for the sequel trilogy, and I hope that they don't blow it.

edit: In regards to the above, the only common person in the OT to express skepticism about the Force is Han. I don't know if that necessarily points to the idea that Lucas intended the Jedi to be wiped out from the public conscience so much as it's supposed to tell us about Han's character, since - as you noted - Jan Dodonna uses "May the Force be with you" in ANH. The imperial officers may scoff at Vader believing in the Force but that's because of imperial propaganda within the organization.
Click to expand...

I agree with you there. Especially concerning the Jedi part.
 
B

BlueDogAnchorite

Member
TCRS said:
Well I do, but then I love every Sith story. I had goosebumps reading the prologue, just love the way it's written. But even generally it's viewed as a good book that tells the story leding up to Ep I. I recommend it.
Click to expand...

I have to read this. Even if it's not canon. It's on my backlog, that I've been meaning to read.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
LastNac said:
Honestly. why do you hate the EU so much?
Click to expand...

I don't?

I don't.

I like the Zahn trilogy, of course. I thought A New Dawn was okay enough. The X-Wing series (stackpole/allston) was decent.

The TIE Fighter & X-Wing Alliance games were really fun. Same with Dark Forces/Jedi Outcast series.

I think that the Shadows of the Empire soundtrack is great.

The Star Wars Tales series from Dark Horse was one of the best uses of that particular license ever, and some of the most fun Star Wars stories in the entire EU showed up there.

I mean, I'm 36 years old. I watched the EU really take off in the early 90s. And like most things in the 90s, there was a LOT of gaudy crap that came out from otherwise trusted brands. Some of it was even enjoyable at the time. But a lot of it is not good.

Saying Kevin J. Anderson is not a very good writer doesn't mean I'm full of hate for the things you like. I'm not even saying you're wrong to like them, or that you should like them less. I'm just saying I don't consider the man a good writer, and if you're wondering why he's relatively unliked within the fandom, I'm suggesting that might be a factor :)
 
J

jelly

Member
Great post GentlemanCrow. I don't think you can apply logic to Lucas and the prequels, he just wrote what came to mind and what he thought was cool and sold toys. Shame as you describe how mysterious it all was in the old trilogy.

I can't get passed the dress code of Jedi in the prequels, Obi Wan and Luke lived on a desert planet.

Are they going to do away with the New Zealand clone troopers or are they just normal folk by that time ?

If they are all the same, is there really anything special about those new troopers other than fancy dress.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
I thought the mistakes the Jedi made in the prequels in addition to Qui-Gon's further teachings through the Force is what led to Yoda and Obi-Wan being the way they are in the originals. Qui-Gon basically showed them what was up. If they were perfect they wouldn't have fallen and there would be no need for their "return." I took that out of the prequels before watching the Clone Wars show. I thought it was pretty blatant but whatever. They weren't completely in touch with the Force in the way that they should have been. I thought that was one of the entire points of the prequels. Their new understanding is what led to Luke being trained by Yoda in a more spiritual fashion. It all gelled for me.
 
L

LastNac

Member
BobbyRoberts said:
I don't?

I don't.

I like the Zahn trilogy, of course. I thought A New Dawn was okay enough. The X-Wing series (stackpole/allston) was decent.

The TIE Fighter & X-Wing Alliance games were really fun. Same with Dark Forces/Jedi Outcast series.

I think that the Shadows of the Empire soundtrack is great.

The Star Wars Tales series from Dark Horse was one of the best uses of that particular license ever, and some of the most fun Star Wars stories in the entire EU showed up there.

I mean, I'm 36 years old. I watched the EU really take off in the early 90s. And like most things in the 90s, there was a LOT of gaudy crap that came out from otherwise trusted brands. Some of it was even enjoyable at the time. But a lot of it is not good.

Saying Kevin J. Anderson is not a very good writer doesn't mean I'm full of hate for the things you like. I'm not even saying you're wrong to like them, or that you should like them less. I'm just saying I don't consider the man a good writer, and if you're wondering why he's relatively unliked within the fandom, I'm suggesting that might be a factor :)
Click to expand...

You got a good 10 years on me so maybe that 80's cynicism comes into play. ;)

Thing is, I straddle the line of being too young for the OT and a little older than intended for the PT. My experience with the Star Wars films were the VHS release in 95', but truthfully, Shadows of the Empire was the thing that made Star Wars relevant again in my time. I enjoyed the game, the comic. Book was so-so.

Then there was Jedi Knight series and of course Tales of the Jedi.

The complaints and criticisms for Anderson always seem to come from the "Young Jedi Knights" series to which I can't really speak to, only read one. But Tales of the Jedi were great, interesting stories, good art, and an all new direction for Star Wars. What more can you ask for?
 
F

Faiz

Member
WadiumArcadium said:
Has anyone read the Rebels prequel novel ''A New Dawn'? It's just come out in the UK and I was wondering what people thoughts were.
Click to expand...

Not yet. My reading list has been piling up lately and with my continued annoyance about the destruction of the old EU, it's gonna be way down on the list :/
 
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