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Star Wars Rebels Season 3 |OT| Dark Forces Rising

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D

DoctorFling

Member
Wow, a lot of negativity here. I've found that when this show is good it's really good, but they have a lot more filler due to a tighter budget than TCW. Really looking forward to the final episodes, looks like they have a lot planned.
 
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BrokenFiction

Member
DoctorFling said:
Wow, a lot of negativity here. I've found that when this show is good it's really good, but they have a lot more filler due to a tighter budget than TCW. Really looking forward to the final episodes, looks like they have a lot planned.
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I also feel like Rebels holds up better during binge watching. I just rewatched S1 and my complaints back then felt off. I liked it a lot more.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
once you got passed the fact that darth maul "survived" being cut in half - a death im sure lucas would have changed if given the chance - his involvement in the clone wars was a welcome one. he brought a level of raw violence that wouldnt have been as convincing with a new character as far as its relation to an existing one went.

but theyre really running with the maul milk now it seems, and maybe it's just because he was for all intents and purposes canonically dead for 10 or so years, but it's more bothersome than any other character at this point (now that EU is dead and sheev clones arent a thing anymore). i saw an article the other day with the headline "how darth maul became one of the series most iconic villains" and my first thought was how none of it wouldve been a problem if his "death"was more ambiguous. not that him surviving is at all outside the realm of possibility for star wars, but it was a death retcon in the end.

KoruptData said:
You caught up with the show? Seems like a weird thing to say if you have been following along.

Bobby, I found it on my Facebook feed from Dork Side of the Force which got it from comicbook.com which got it from a video that was released yesterday but I found no mention of it.
Click to expand...

i've been watching since it debut and the highest moments of the show to me have all featured characters that weren't created for rebels
 
B

Boem

Member
Zoba said:
once you got passed the fact that darth maul "survived" being cut in half - a death im sure lucas would have retconned if given the chance - his involvement in the clone wars was a welcome one. he brought a level of raw violence that wouldnt have been as convincing with a new character as far as its relation to an existing one went.

but theyre really running with the maul milk now it seems, and maybe it's just because he was for all intents and purposes canonically dead for 10 or so years, but it's more bothersome than any other character at this point (now that EU is dead and sheev clones arent a thing anymore). i saw an article the other day with the headline "how darth maul became one of the series most iconic villains" and my first thought was how none of it wouldve been a problem if his "death"was more ambiguous
Click to expand...

I mean, I would actually say that Clone Wars' storyline of Maul surviving and turning into a crazy junkyard spider was a bit too silly tbh, but as long as he's here, doesn't it make sense to end his story? They're going to tell Darth Maul's last moments at some point to close out that storyline, why is that actual story finally coming up 'milking it'?

I don't understand what the difference for you is with Maul being in Clone Wars and him being on Rebels. It's still made by largely the same team, and his story never really got to a close on Clone Wars. Honestly sounds more like your distaste for Rebels and admiration for Clone Wars that's the problem here. I personally never really cared for Maul as a character, but, having brought him back to life in the cartoons, it makes too much sense to bring that story to its natural conclusion. To the point where it'd be a shame if they never got to it.

Having that moment be against Guinness Obi Wan during his Tatooine exile feels like a fun and good reward after years of Maul's story unfolding, and it fits perfectly with his character/arc. I mean, if you're going to release extra media besides the movies to explore this world and its characters, surely they should be able to actually use those characters? It's not like either Maul or Obi Wan have been dominating Rebels, the show is still mainly about new characters and stories.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
Boem said:
I mean, I would actually say that Clone Wars' storyline of Maul surviving and turning into a crazy junkyard spider was a bit too silly tbh, but as long as he's here, doesn't it make sense to end his story? They're going to tell Darth Maul's last moments at some point to close out that storyline, why is that actual story finally coming up 'milking it'?

I don't understand what the difference for you is with Maul being in Clone Wars and him being on Rebels. It's still made by largely the same team, and his story never really got to a close on Clone Wars. Honestly sounds more like your distaste for Rebels and admiration for Clone Wars that's the problem here. I personally never really cared for Maul as a character, but, having brought him back to life in the cartoons, it makes too much sense to bring that story to it's natural conclusion. To the point where it'd be a shame if they never got to it.
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Maul fought Obi Wan and died, and then over a decade later they bring him back and dedicate a good slice of TCW to him getting revenge, which he did. They didn't have a "final showdown" after that, but given how exposed he was and then his involvement with the Rebels crew in Season 2, you can't fault me for being burnt out on him already. If this really is his conclusion, then I'm glad it has finally arrived.

And it goes without saying that I don't appreciate the fact that Rebels' biggest asset are stories involving existing characters - which all end up feeling watered down compared to TCW - and not its own cast which hasn't grown nearly as much as they ought to have.
 
B

Boem

Member
Zoba said:
Maul fought Obi Wan and died, and then over a decade later they bring him back and dedicate a good slice of TCW to him getting revenge, which he did. They didn't have a "final showdown" after that, but given how exposed he was and then his involvement with the Rebels crew in Season 2, you can't fault me for being burnt out on him already. If this really is his conclusion, then I'm glad it has finally arrived.

And it goes without saying that I don't appreciate the fact that Rebels' biggest asset are stories involving existing characters - which all end up feeling watered down compared to TCW - and not its own cast which hasn't grown nearly as much as they ought to have.
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At the same time you're blaming Rebels for reusing an old character, and you're also saying you vastly prefer the episodes with old characters. It's fine if you don't like the show (I'm not a big fan either, but Clone Wars wasn't much better for me), but I think you're being a bit unreasonable if you excuse the silliness of him coming back in TCW and then get annoyed when that same team takes the opportunity to round off that arc. That's what you're supposed to do with good characters, and I personally think the team giving a character they created (let's not forget that Maul in Ep 1 wasn't nearly the character he was on TCW, that team worked a lot on that - he was pretty much a blank canvas before that) the ending he deserves is only right. Again, especially because that struggle between the two ending on Tatooine pre-New Hope in that context is just too fun not to do.

These stories don't exist in a vacuum, and you don't want to leave all your big character arcs open ended, especially for the important characters. Darth Maul (the version we have now) is basically more a cartoon character than the live action portrayal at this point, and given that it's still the same team, it makes sense to me that the stars aligned to make this his ending point. I don't think that's milking, and I readily agree that this franchise can milk some things too much. But the criticism can go to far as well - at some point people started criticizing everything recognizable these stories used. It's still Star Wars, of course they're going to use those characters and elements. Otherwise it'd be something else.
 
K

KoruptData

Member
They have to explain where Maul was during the OT now that they brought him back to life. Was he dead? Most likely. This battle might be Mauls end, if it is, I want to see it go down. If he doesn't die, then we have bigger mysteries.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
Boem said:
At the same time you're blaming Rebels for reusing an old character, and you're also saying you vastly prefer the episodes with old characters. It's fine if you don't like the show (I'm not a big fan either, but Clone Wars wasn't much better for me), but I think you're being a bit unreasonable if you excuse the silliness of him coming back in TCW and then get annoyed when that same team takes the opportunity to round off that arc. That's what you're supposed to do with good characters, and I personally think the team giving a character they created (let's not forget that Maul in Ep 1 wasn't nearly the character he was on TCW, that team worked a lot on that - he was pretty much a blank canvas before that) the ending he deserves is only right. Again, especially because that struggle between the two ending on Tatooine pre-New Hope in that context is just too fun not to do.
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I'm annoyed because Rebels isn't as well written, paced or shot as TCW was, and its main reason for existing is to show a crew I couldn't care less about, which makes up the bulk of the show and consequently the least appealing parts of it.

I dislike that the show relies on existing characters to stay afloat, but in the end it's still animated Star Wars, and I'm glad that the strongest episodes involve characters I am interested in.
 
B

Boem

Member
KoruptData said:
They have to explain where Maul was during the OT now that they brought him back to life. Was he dead? Most likely. This battle might be Mauls end, if it is, I want to see it go down. If he doesn't die, then we have bigger mysteries.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Never seeing or hearing from Maul again would have been weird, given his importance and the open ended ending he got on that show.

This is (probably) the moment that ending gets told. It would have happened somewhere at some point, and this happens to be that point. Really don't get what's wrong with that. He got all his characterization on the cartoons, so that's probably where it should be finished, especially now that that same team is still working on them. They deserve to tell that ending given that they were the ones building it up for so many years.

Zoba said:
I'm annoyed because the show isn't as well written, paced or shot as TCW was, and its main reason for existing is to show a crew I couldn't care less about, which makes up the bulk of the show and consequently the least appealing parts of it.

But in the end it's still animated Star Wars, and I'm glad that the strongest episodes involve characters I am interested in.
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I don't really know what you're arguing here, since I don't think this show (or TCW) is particularly interesting all the time either. But you called this specific moment of using Maul milking, that was what I was commenting on - not whether or not Rebels or TCW is a better show. I'm not really interested in that and I don't think that has anything to do with the discussion itself.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
Boem said:
Exactly. Never seeing or hearing from Maul again would have been weird, given his importance and the open ended ending he got on that show.

This is (probably) the moment that ending gets told. It would have happened somewhere at some point, and this happens to be that point. Really don't get what's wrong with that. He got all his characterization on the cartoons, so that's probably where it should be finished, especially now that that same team is still working on them. They deserve to tell that ending given that they were the ones building it up for so many years.



I don't really know what you're arguing here, since I don't think this show (or TCW) is particularly interesting all the time either. But you called this specific moment of using Maul milking, that was what I was commenting on - not whether or not Rebels or TCW is a better show.
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Maul is already oversaturated in Rebels in my opinion with his involvement in season two, which is what makes this "climatic showdown" seem like overkill to me despite its necessity. Yes, the set up for Maul's continued involvement was established at the end of season 5 in the clone wars, but the execution since has been too heavy handed for me. Once I read that that the Grand Inquisitor used to be a Temple Guard, I would have prefered to see where his character went over several seasons instead.


Boem said:
not whether or not Rebels or TCW is a better show. I'm not really interested in that and I don't think that has anything to do with the discussion itself.
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It does to me. Season 2 more or less exists to facilitate the showdown between Ahsoka and Vader. I cannot recall anything of significance happening for the rest of the cast beyond establishing a base and picking up a few supplies here and there. There isn't much meaningful growth for them until the finale, and at that point it's no longer about them. Ezra's "dark side" business seems to have been brushed under the rug and now I wonder why Maul even showed up in the first place.
There's obviously a lot of work that goes into these moments in the show, but I still feel like they exist primarily to give the show a boost.

Lemme put it this way. The selling point of Ahsoka's season 3 finale was not Chewbacca's cameo.
 
S

Septimus Prime

Member
KoruptData said:
Obi-Wan-vs-Maul-SWR-Twin-Suns.gif
Click to expand...
Kenobi's lightsaber is so stable in this. I wonder what happens to make it unstable in ANH.
 
CrimsonSquall

CrimsonSquall

Member
Einchy said:
Last two episodes were pretty good.

[edit]

I agree with everything you guys are saying about Rebels. It's a shame that Rebels replaced TCW.


I believe I said this before that the show had not been doing a good job at showing why so many people love Thrawn. I haven't read the books, so I was hoping Rebels would show me how awesome he is, and until this episode, they had done a very poor job at it. Hopefully we see more of this Thrawn.
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What about when Thrawn had a vehicle manufacturer kill himself off screen? I thought that was pretty insightful
 
C

Cafeman

Member
Is there any explanation for Obi-Wan's dumb pose when holding the saber? I know the prequels version of Obi did it in EpIII. Is it 'a thing' now?
 
Duane Cunningham

Duane Cunningham

Member
Septimus Prime said:
Kenobi's lightsaber is so stable in this. I wonder what happens to make it unstable in ANH.
Click to expand...

Maybe this fight.

Zoba said:
Thought this was cool

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...-wars-thrawn-book-exclusive-excerpt/98518860/

Thrawn's definitely the best character on this show right now and I didn't know he was written in the 90s. Kinda like how not many people know that George conceived the midi-chlorians (no pun intended) back in the 70s
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It's hard for people who weren't around or aware at the time to imagine, but for the latter half of the 80's and the early 90's, Star Wars like, didn't exist. Being "into Star Wars" was almost like a kitschy, alternative kind of thing. There was zero Star Wars product. No toys, no merchandise, no anything. Definitely no "expanded universe" or anything.

When Timothy Zahn's book Heir to the Empire came out in 1991, it was a huge hit and the idea was seen as really unique and novel... it was actually a sequel to Return of the Jedi! Weird! And everyone was reading it and talking about it. It was almost like Wicked (the Wizard of Oz book). Just a weird thing to tell a NEW Star Wars story... there was this blue alien officer named Grand Admiral Thrawn trying to revive the empire, Han and Leia had kids, it was really cool to see a continuation of the story like that. It kicked off the whole Expanded Universe, and really kind of renewed interest in the franchise, enough that several more books were written afterwards, then a new (shitty) toy line in 1995 for the first time in a decade, then before you knew it, new movies were finally being rumored.

So yeah, Thrawn was not just a character from the 90's, he's kind of THE character who saved the franchise (or at least kicked off its revival).
 
D

Doublesith

Member
Fans can look forward to more details and an announcement about the exciting fourth season of Star Wars Rebels during Star Wars Celebration in Orlando this April!
Click to expand...

I wonder what this means? Will they announce that it's the final season? Is the rumor (that I've never actually believed) about season 4 being a series of TV movies true after all?
 
B

Boem

Member
Doublesith said:
I wonder what this means? Will they announce that it's the final season? Is the rumor (that I've never actually believed) about season 4 being a series of TV movies true after all?
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I think the rumor was that as soon as Hidalgo's next show is ready for air, Rebels will stop having full seasons and continue as a series of standalone tv 'movies'.

So perhaps season 4 is the final one, or, like you said, the series of specials. Who knows. Hidalgo did say that he had a specific ending in mind (lining it up with Rogue One), and I guess he would want to take the opportunity to actually finish the show after missing out on it with Clone Wars.
 
V

Vengal

Member
Im a little confused about the ending of that last episode.

Is
Mon Mothma
not part of the larger rebel cell being run by
Jimmy Smitts
? At the end there when the cells all met up Hammerheads came which I would have guessed she would be directly associated with anyway.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Vengal said:
Im a little confused about the ending of that last episode.

Is
Mon Mothma
not part of the larger rebel cell being run by
Jimmy Smitts
? At the end there when the cells all met up Hammerheads came which I would have guessed she would be directly associated with anyway.
Click to expand...

He probably had his own.

Just as Mothma has the Gold and Red Squadrons and General Dodonna
Smitts's guys kinda linked up with our crew already

Mothma's is the main cell however
 
D

Doublesith

Member
The Flash said:
Cool. Hope it's darker in tone like the last few seasons of Clone Wars.
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Based on the previous work of the one writer we know they've hired for the new show, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0614014/

Pablo has mentioned several times how TCW lost its kid audience as it grew darker, something that LFL viewed as a negative. I don't expect the new show to have a target audience appreciably older than that of Rebels.
 
S

Sayers

Member
Doublesith said:
Based on the previous work of the one writer we know they've hired for the new show, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0614014/

Pablo has mentioned several times how TCW lost its kid audience as it grew darker, something that LFL viewed as a negative. I don't expect the new show to have a target audience appreciably older than that of Rebels.
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Not a great sign. At the same time, surely Filoni has greater ambitions than making something for 5-8 year olds?
 
S

Seigyoku

Member
Sayers said:
Not a great sign. At the same time, surely Filoni has greater ambitions than making something for 5-8 year olds?
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9-12.

Get XD's demographics right people. :p

And he clearly loves his job, so I don't think he has an issue with it. You can do amazing things in a "kids'" demo if you know what you are doing.

(Also why are people treating this renewal as a shock, besides Freddie already talking about recordings, comments about writing and kick-off meetings and animation lead times meant a fourth season had already been in production. The real question is a season 5.)
 
S

Sayers

Member
Seigyoku said:
(Also why are people treating this renewal as a shock, besides Freddie already talking about recordings, comments about writing and kick-off meetings and animation lead times meant a fourth season had already been in production. The real question is a season 5.)
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I wasn't surprised but every couple of months someone posts in this thread some variation of "guys, I heard this was totally the LAST season of rebels!" so apparently it's continually a shock to some people.
 
T

Tapejara

Member
Last few episodes have been pretty good imo. I was one of the people harping on there being too many filler episodes before, but I think the second half of season 3 has had a lot more episodes moving the general plot forward or making much more significant connections to the rest of the SW universe.

Stray observation from this episode: the
nebula ignition/explosion scene and its effect on the Star Destoryers
looked gorgeous.
 
Duane Cunningham

Duane Cunningham

Member
That was good. Anyone know who the Gold Squadron pilots were? Gold Leader was of course Dutch Vander, who appeares in Rogue One through the magic of archived footage, dies in ANH, and has a name that oddly sounds like Darth Vader.

What about the female pilot who had a turn of heart towards Ezra, though... Was she maybe the Gold Squadron member from R1 who disabled the Star Destroyer which then got pushed by the hammerhead?

The credits, unfortunately, just listed them all as "Gold [#]".
 
A

antonz

Member
More little bits of the old EU showing up though not totally the same. Ghorman Massacre was the Incident where Tarkin landed an Imperial Shuttle on protestors because they blocked the landing pad. Old EU it was closer to the formation of the Empire rather than so close to Yavin.
 
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