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Star Wars Rebels Season 3 |OT| Dark Forces Rising

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T

Tsunamo

Member
That was a great episode. My one regret is that
Rex and Yularen didn't get to have any interaction, but other than that it was a fantastic episode.

You could feel the tension throughout the whole thing.
 
B

Back-In-Black

Banned
Sayers said:
I tend to agree with Bobby that the problem might be too many main characters. But that doesn't even mean you need to get rid of any of them to fix it. Is it really necessary to develop Zeb or Chopper beyond their current roles? Zeb is the muscle and Chop is the comic relief. Do they really need to be anymore than that? What is Chewie in the original trilogy other than the lovable muscle and co-pilot? We don't really learn much more about him than that. Zeb doesn't need to be anymore than that either, and we certainly don't need full episodes devoted to Chopper's backstory. He is the cranky asshole who is nonetheless loyal to the crew and that's really all he needs to be.

The problem with the single episode stories is not that it hinders character development, but that it keeps the stakes low. There is no time for the heroes to fail and suffer the consequences of that failure. Compare the Antilles Extraction in Rebels to the Slaves of the Republic arc in the Clone Wars. In Rebels, Sabine meets Wedge, IMMEDIATELY gains his trust and they attempt to flee. Now, they do get caught but they free themselves again within about 90 seconds of on-screen time. By episode's end, the heroes have won the day. In the Slaves of the Republic, the second episode ends with the heroes on the ropes. Kenobi is shipped off to the slave camp, Ahsoka is suspended in a cage above the city and Anakin is a captive of the Queen. The next episode then takes the time to dwell on the heroes' failure. The stakes are higher and while we know the heroes will win in the end, we still want to tune in to see what it will cost them.

The single episode stories also means the pacing is often a full on sprint, start to finish. No time to linger or explore, not just failures, but relationships and successes. There are exceptions, of course. I think they have done an excellent job with Kanan, and his relationship with Hera in particular is very well done. But this last episode could have used some more time developing the relationship between Sabine and her brother, might have made the choice he is forced to make near the end a lot more interesting.
Click to expand...

100% Agree. During the episode break I decided to do a binge rewatch of TCW and coming back to Rebels you immediately feel the difference in quality.

That said, I really enjoyed that last episode. I also hope they don't off Kallus since he's one of the few interesting and well developed characters. I'm also getting more and more annoyed with Ezra as the series goes on, he's just the epitome of a kids show protagonist, quipping all day long. One thing I've found myself doing is paying more attention to the credits after an episode is done to see who wrote it, something I never did in TCW because the episodes were almost all good to great.

Zoba said:
This. The biggest casuality of this is the cinematography. The camera doesn't linger on the background, it doesn't explore the setting, and it rarely takes time to establish a mood. Everything is just quick quick quick to meet the run time and shove a bunch of one liners into it like every other shitty cartoon on TV.

TCW had incredibly nuanced directing, at times surpassing the movies themselves.
Click to expand...

We ain't ever getting shit like this again:

2SAxAFo.gif
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Last two episodes were pretty good.

[edit]

I agree with everything you guys are saying about Rebels. It's a shame that Rebels replaced TCW.
Derwind said:
Episode was one of my favourites by far. Grand Admiral Thrawn is something else entirely.
Click to expand...

I believe I said this before that the show had not been doing a good job at showing why so many people love Thrawn. I haven't read the books, so I was hoping Rebels would show me how awesome he is, and until this episode, they had done a very poor job at it. Hopefully we see more of this Thrawn.
 
S

Sayers

Member
Really good episode this week. I thought it was paced well and they kept the tension high throughout. I was genuinely concerned about Kallus.

I'm guessing that Thrawn already had all of the possible base locations memorized. He will notice the discrepancy and conclude the tampering must have been by the rebels and thus, the missing planet is the base.
 
X

XAL

Member
Back-In-Black said:
100% Agree. During the episode break I decided to do a binge rewatch of TCW and coming back to Rebels you immediately feel the difference in quality.

That said, I really enjoyed that last episode. I also hope they don't off Kallus since he's one of the few interesting and well developed characters. I'm also getting more and more annoyed with Ezra as the series goes on, he's just the epitome of a kids show protagonist, quipping all day long. One thing I've found myself doing is paying more attention to the credits after an episode is done to see who wrote it, something I never did in TCW because the episodes were almost all good to great.



We ain't ever getting shit like this again:

2SAxAFo.gif
Click to expand...

What episode is this from?
 
E

Ezalc

Member
Sayers said:
Really good episode this week. I thought it was paced well and they kept the tension high throughout. I was genuinely concerned about Kallus.

I'm guessing that Thrawn already had all of the possible base locations memorized. He will notice the discrepancy and conclude the tampering must have been by the rebels and thus, the missing planet is the base.
Click to expand...

This is what I thought too.

In regards to
Thrawn figuring it out that it was Kallus, his leap of logic of Kallus knowing the rebel was ridiculous. He didn't see Kallus interacting with the rebel at all, it makes sense to doubt that lieutenant but him automatically jumping suspicion to Kallus was forced.
 
B

Back-In-Black

Banned
Ezalc said:
This is what I thought too.

In regards to
Thrawn figuring it out that it was Kallus, his leap of logic of Kallus knowing the rebel was ridiculous. He didn't see Kallus interacting with the rebel at all, it makes sense to doubt that lieutenant but him automatically jumping suspicion to Kallus was forced.
Click to expand...

No it wasn't.
Thrawn discovered the helmet in Ezra's cell and correctly connected it to him via the Lorath creature painting done in Sabine's style. He also knew that Kallus and the Lieutenant apprehended the "bounty hunter/Ezra" and transferred him to Thrawn's ship. Kallus knows full well what Ezra looks like, as does Thrawn, and Thrawn knows that Kallus should know what Ezra looks like. Thus, the fact that Kallus never recognized Ezra or alerted Thrawn to the fact that he was in custody immediately places him under super big suspicion.
 
X

XAL

Member
Ezalc said:
This is what I thought too.

In regards to
Thrawn figuring it out that it was Kallus, his leap of logic of Kallus knowing the rebel was ridiculous. He didn't see Kallus interacting with the rebel at all, it makes sense to doubt that lieutenant but him automatically jumping suspicion to Kallus was forced.
Click to expand...

He knew it was
Kallus because Kallus had many contacts with the Lothal rebel cell so he would know what they look like. Him figuring it out was based on that. That added to the fact that the LT was a dumbarse made the logical jump pretty simple.
 
S

Sayers

Member
Back-In-Black said:
No it wasn't.
Thrawn discovered the helmet in Ezra's cell and correctly connected it to him via the Lorath creature painting done in Sabine's style. He also knew that Kallus and the Lieutenant apprehended the "bounty hunter/Ezra" and transferred him to Thrawn's ship. Kallus knows full well what Ezra looks like, as does Thrawn, and Thrawn knows that Kallus should know what Ezra looks like. Thus, the fact that Kallus never recognized Ezra or alerted Thrawn to the fact that he was in custody immediately places him under super big suspicion.
Click to expand...

I think Yularen even says something like "Why would Kallus not tell us the prisoner was a known rebel?"

EDIT: Recon is up. Filoni wanted to do the whole episode in first person but they couldn't make it work.
 
D

Dryk

Member
Sayers said:
I'm guessing that Thrawn already had all of the possible base locations memorized. He will notice the discrepancy and conclude the tampering must have been by the rebels and thus, the missing planet is the base.
Click to expand...
Kallus really should have known better.
 
Duane Cunningham

Duane Cunningham

Member
Really good episode once again. Kallus should have gotten out.

And yeah, during the tussle between Price and Rex, I really thought he'd take off his helmet and lock eyes with Yularen.
 
D

Derwind

Member
Einchy said:
I believe I said this before that the show had not been doing a good job at showing why so many people love Thrawn. I haven't read the books, so I was hoping Rebels would show me how awesome he is, and until this episode, they had done a very poor job at it. Hopefully we see more of this Thrawn.
Click to expand...

Well if it's any indication at all, Thrawn has to be my new favourite character in the show.
 
U

Unit 33

Member
Gee I can't wait for Zahn's new Thrawn novel.

Good episode, but I wish the quality had been sustained from Clown Wars... Hopefully the next mystery Dave Filoni series has a higher budget.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
I'm rewatching the last leg of Season 5 of TCW and my jaw is dropping at pretty much every shot.

I've always preferred the prequel era for its shades of gray anyhow. OT era is too black and white for me and Rebels isn't really doing a good job of making the "struggle against the empire" anymore interesting.
 
U

Unit 33

Member
Zoba said:
I've always preferred the prequel era for its shades of gray anyhow. OT era is too black and white for me and Rebels isn't really doing a good job of making the "struggle against the empire" anymore interesting.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean,

Rebels suggests that the Empire is divided into either the incompetent or the impotent evil.
And of course the Rebellion is entirely heroic and wears profound plot armour (with the exception of those poor faceless A-Wing pilots)

Other new canon materials have painted a much more vivid picture of the Empire and Rebellion, with interesting perspectives.

Twlight Company was probably my favourite so far, and Lost Stars was pretty good at showing both sides of the conflict.

But i guess the target audience for Rebels is less interested in character study and themes of moral ambiguity.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
Unit 33 said:
I know what you mean,

Rebels suggests that the Empire is divided into either the incompetent or the impotent evil.
And of course the Rebellion is entirely heroic and wears profound plot armour (with the exception of those poor faceless A-Wing pilots)

Other new canon materials have painted a much more vivid picture of the Empire and Rebellion, with interesting perspectives.

Twlight Company was probably my favourite so far, and Lost Stars was pretty good at showing both sides of the conflict.

But i guess the target audience for Rebels is less interested in character study and themes of moral ambiguity.
Click to expand...

At this point I think Rebels only exists to sell toys
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Really wish they hadn't dropped Ezra's subplot about turning to the dark side. His character was really interesting at the start of the season but that only lasted one episode.

Also, Kansan going blind has had zero effect on him besides Kanan just looking cool. They don't even animate him differently.
 
U

Unit 33

Member
Zoba said:
At this point I think Rebels only exists to sell toys
Click to expand...

I certainly agree.

It's very transparent, particularly when they introduce characters that are cynically introduced to sell toys.

A few examples:

.Darth Maul (again)
.The Imperial Assassin Droids
.Mandalorians (with jetpacks that can keep up with Star Ships)
.Aged clone troopers
.Darth Vader
.Inquisitors

Some of these integrate with the narrative better than others, but I do feel they are foremost toy commercials.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
Unit 33 said:
I certainly agree.

It's very transparent, particularly when they introduce characters that are cynically introduced to sell toys.

A few examples:

.Darth Maul (again)
.The Imperial Assassin Droids
.Mandalorians (with jetpacks that can keep up with Star Ships)
.Aged clone troopers
.Darth Vader
.Inquisitors

Some of these integrate with the narrative better than others, but I do feel they are foremost toy commercials.
Click to expand...

Which isn't inherently bad. I enjoyed the Pokemon anime up to a certian point after all.

I'm just disappointed. There have been some good highs (last season had several), but they're too few and far between and the show keeps going on breaks to top it off.
 
B

Back-In-Black

Banned
Einchy said:
Really wish they hadn't dropped Ezra's subplot about turning to the dark side. His character was really interesting at the start of the season but that only lasted one episode.

Also, Kansan going blind has had zero effect on him besides Kanan just looking cool. They don't even animate him differently.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Hell, for all we know they blinded him just so the could save time and money on not having to animate his eyes and probably the same reason for Ezra's haircut.
 
U

Unit 33

Member
Zoba said:
Which isn't inherently bad. I enjoyed the Pokemon anime up to a certian point after all.

I'm just disappointed. There have been some good highs (last season had several), but they're too few and far between and the show keeps going on breaks to top it off.
Click to expand...

Of course, it can work if done tastefully.

Many design elements of ESB were influenced by what would work as a toy (Boba Fett)
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Unit 33 said:
I certainly agree.

It's very transparent, particularly when they introduce characters that are cynically introduced to sell toys.

A few examples:

.Darth Maul (again)
.The Imperial Assassin Droids
.Mandalorians (with jetpacks that can keep up with Star Ships)
.Aged clone troopers
.Darth Vader
.Inquisitors

Some of these integrate with the narrative better than others, but I do feel they are foremost toy commercials.
Click to expand...
Strange then considering Hasbro doesn't give a damn about Rebels toys.
 
U

Unit 33

Member
Razgriz-Specter said:
Strange then considering Hasbro doesn't give a damn about Rebels toys.
Click to expand...
Hasbro are weird.

Zoba said:
Merchandise will always be a big part of Star Wars. I only wish Rebels had more to offer than that.
Click to expand...

Of course, it's where they historically make the lions share of the profits.

I guess to a further extent (from my twisted cynical point of view) the characters I listed as merchandise bait were also headline bait:

'This week in rebels... DARTH MAUL'
'This week in rebels... droids that look a bit like Dark Troopers'
'This week in rebels... etc etc'

When fan-orientated entertainment is as saturated as it is right now it's imperative to have something to rope in the audience. Or at least generate furious fan speculation and countless YouTube analysis videos.
 
T

TheMagician

Member
When Clone Wars got to season 3 it had a lot of momentum and you could see things were getting better and better.

Season 3 of Rebels has been 'OK'. I definitely haven't enjoyed it as much as season 2, which had the great Vader/Ahsoka story running through it.

The characters are just existing at the moment. Ezra was more interesting when you were wondering about his family and if he would turn to the dark side. Kanan is going no where and Zeb is just kind of there as well.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
TheMagician said:
When Clone Wars got to season 3 it had a lot of momentum and you could see things were getting better and better.

Season 3 of Rebels has been 'OK'. I definitely haven't enjoyed it as much as season 2, which had the great Vader/Ahsoka story running through it.

The characters are just existing at the moment. Ezra was more interesting when you were wondering about his family and if he would turn to the dark side. Kanan is going no where and Zeb is just kind of there as well.
Click to expand...

All Season 3 has going for it so far are Kallus and Thrawn. Last season had some actual character development for Kanaan and Ezra but the latter has defaulted back to his quips.

I don't think the show has too many characters but the stories rarely challenge their relationships or their world views. The first season was setting up a decent friendship between Sabine and Ezra and after last week's episode it's as if that doesn't exist.
 
H

Hellwarden

Member
Through Imperial Eyes
download_2.png

I thought this was a decent episode that finished okay, but kinda lacked tension around the middle. It's probably because I like Kallus as a character, but I really enjoyed how casually he sold out his underling to save himself. That made it a bit disappointing when Thrawn put everything together at then end, a bit too neatly indeed. I get that things are wrapping up this season, but I kinda wished we had a bit more of a cat and mouse game between Thrawn and Kallus. It was nice to see Thrawn finally take more of an active role tho.
download_3.png

Well...okay I guess.
Click to expand...
There was thing towards the middle that really irked me tho. So Kallus and Ezra get into Thrawn's office and realize how close Thrawn is to finding the base. So they decide to delete one planet and just invent another?
download.png

Wut?
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it make more sense just to take the base planet off the suspicious list, and not remove it entirely? Is this the only copy of this thing? What if Kallus has a way of chec-ah whatever.

Also, why was AP-5 even in this episode?
 
LordOfChaos

LordOfChaos

Member
Hellwarden said:
Through Imperial Eyes


There was thing towards the middle that really irked me tho. So Kallus and Ezra get into Thrawn's office and realize how close Thrawn is to finding the base. So they decide to delete one planet and just invent another?

Wouldn't it make more sense just to take the base planet off the suspicious list, and not remove it entirely? Is this the only copy of this thing? What if Kallus has a way of chec-ah whatever.

Also, why was AP-5 even in this episode?
Click to expand...

I thought they didn't invent a planet, they just added an existing planet from the planet registry or whatever.

If there's no planet there they'd obviously get suspicious and re-check the map against another data source, and find what was missing.

Though, if they did add a planet that exists, they just subjected them to incoming horrors, though to save the base...
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
ugh, how many times are obi wan and darth maul going to fight...

not that i mind fan service but when is rebels going to have its own ideas like kanaan and grand jnquisitor fight again
 
B

Boem

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
Not sure what extra time spent on set design and rendering does for storytelling "nuance" here.

edit: Oh shit. Is that old and I just missed it? Where is that from?
Click to expand...

Upcoming episode, if you're talking about the Obi/Maul fight.

Zoba said:
ugh, how many times are obi wan and darth maul going to fight...
Click to expand...

Surely a (probable) close to Maul's story, and pitching him against pre-ANH Guinness-style Obi Wan is worth doing? It'll be the first time (in the new canon) we've seen Guinness-era Obi Wan, and given that this is a cartoon, that seems like an extremely fitting place to end Maul's story (again, purely my own assumption, but it makes too much sense not to do it).

I get complaints about Star Wars getting too fan-servicy, but this seems like a strange place to do so. The vast majority of this series consists of stories about new characters, especially compared to Clone Wars, which you seem to prefer. I personally consider 'too much fanservice' to be stuff like 'here's another Death Star, but bigger!', not 'we know Maul is still around, we've never really seen Obi Wan during his exile on Tatooine, there's a story to be told here. It's a bit different than the couple of times he fought him on Clone Wars, or the one time he did in the movies. After all, if you're ever going to do Maul's last story after him escaping death so many times, it's hard to think of a better place and time to do so (especially against OT Obi-Wan).
 
K

KoruptData

Member
Zoba said:
ugh, how many times are obi wan and darth maul going to fight...

not that i mind fan service but when is rebels going to have its own ideas like kanaan and grand jnquisitor fight again
Click to expand...

You caught up with the show? Seems like a weird thing to say if you have been following along.

Bobby, I found it on my Facebook feed from Dork Side of the Force which got it from comicbook.com which got it from a video that was released yesterday but I found no mention of it.
 
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