Cross-Section
Member
*checks*
Huh, I don't remember them being so... laser-y, but fair enough. Still a bit odd (though very Lucas) that they make such sounds in both movie and episode, though.
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Star Wars Rebels Season 3 |OT| Dark Forces Rising
- Thread starter The Flash
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Huh, I don't remember them being so... laser-y, but fair enough. Still a bit odd (though very Lucas) that they make such sounds in both movie and episode, though.
LordOfChaos
Member
In the next Special Edition of Return of the Jedi, after Anakin's force ghost joins Obi-Wan and Yoda, there will be a zoom-in behind his shoulder and there will be the green-tinted ghosts of Talzin, Savage, Maul and Ventress, smiling and nodding at Luke.
*shudder*
*shudder*
TDLink
Member
Unlike Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda, those characters have nothing to do with Luke whatsoever. Also, all four of those were good characters if you're trying to imply otherwise...
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
By far the best episode of rebels yet.
Cross-Section
Member
Spoilered for bad fanfic:
Luke: "Say, Ben; what's up with those spooky green ghosts behind you?"
*beat*
Obi-Wan: "Oh, hell."
Maul: "Kenobiiii-wait why do I still have robot legs"
Ventress: "Speak for yourself, I went full light-side at the end!"
Talzin: "Lifetime membership, hun."
Yoda: "Hrrrrm. Sold a bill of goods I was. 'An exclusive club', Qui-Gon said."
Anakin: *creepily smirks*
Savage: *creepily glares*
*beat*
Obi-Wan: "Oh, hell."
Maul: "Kenobiiii-wait why do I still have robot legs"
Ventress: "Speak for yourself, I went full light-side at the end!"
Talzin: "Lifetime membership, hun."
Yoda: "Hrrrrm. Sold a bill of goods I was. 'An exclusive club', Qui-Gon said."
Anakin: *creepily smirks*
Savage: *creepily glares*
CrimsonSquall
Member
Overhyped and overpromised, nuh uh.
LordOfChaos
Member
No kidding, and no I wasn't, respectively. Obviously joking.
BrokenFiction
Member
Definitely top 5. It was incredible.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Binged through season 1 and 2 this week. Watched the first two episodes of season 3 tonight and just jumped to the latest, wanted to see the finish. Got a wave of emotion with the close when I heard
Luuuuuke!
CloudyTuba
Member
You guys highlighted my biggest problem not only with this episode, but the show as a whole. The characters are continuously stuck in mud with only brief illusions and teases of progress.
The only character I can think of that went anywhere legitimate was Sabine and that was only recently. That was good shit. They teased a lot for Ezra this season but it didn't really pan out.
Regarding the fight, I'm fine with the short length, but I would have preferred more...preparation for it. It was sort of shocking the way it dropped that bomb. I think I would have felt more impressed if Obiwan had a longer conversation with Maul beforehand. Something more overt to give the chasm between their states of mind more immediate context. A conversation that highlight Maul's haggard desperation versus Obi's calm wisdom. It was clearly there in this episode, but I think I would have found the fight more emotionally satisfying if I expected it a little more beforehand. I'd be thinking "That's it." instead of "That's it?" I dont need more swording, but I wanted more talking.
Not a bad episode, certainly interesting, but overall doesn't really serve anything in the Rebels storyline.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Regarding the "chosen one" prophecy, two things probably worth pointing out:
1. It was pretty well established all through the PT/TCW that while Obi-Wan took the prophecy seriously, not everyone did. Yoda always seems a little dismissive of it. Even Anakin himself at one point in TCW basically shrugs it off as some old bullshit. But you know Obi-Wan. He's kind of a sucker for dramatic stuff.
2. Maul was dying. He asked "Is he the chosen one?". Of course Kenobi has to answer yes anyway. He's not going to say no at that point.
1. It was pretty well established all through the PT/TCW that while Obi-Wan took the prophecy seriously, not everyone did. Yoda always seems a little dismissive of it. Even Anakin himself at one point in TCW basically shrugs it off as some old bullshit. But you know Obi-Wan. He's kind of a sucker for dramatic stuff.
2. Maul was dying. He asked "Is he the chosen one?". Of course Kenobi has to answer yes anyway. He's not going to say no at that point.
I want more Ahsoka. I tune in every episode for a hint of her and end up disappointed. Just leaving her fate up in the air is annoying. Did Vader kill her or not? If he did kill her, what an unceremonious way to finish off a legacy character's story. If he didn't kill her, what a piss off to have it hanging for an entire season or more.
She is dead.
Sorry to say, but this isn't the Ahsoka show. If they ever do reveal that she isn't dead, it may not even be through this medium.
Filoni heavily hinted that she might have survived.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/star-wars-rebels-pretty-much-revealed-the-fate-of-ahsok-1783778829
That season three part is speculation on that site's part and I doubt it'll happen at this point, but still. Filoni made similar comments in other interviews as well. If Ahsoka ever dies, I think they'll make it less ambiguous.
They seriously need to set a show between EP 6 and 7 and make it about Ashoka. Give some good reason why she never appeared in 4 ~ 6 and now is coming out of the shadows. Probably did some soul searching or w/e after her encounter with Vader.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
She was in a force coma for a few years. The death of Vader sent a force ripple that woke her up. Duh.
Even if it isn't about Ahsoka, I'm fully expecting Filoni's new secret show to take place in that period. Move it closer to the new movies, but not too close (not between 7-8 or 8-9). Gives them a chance to play with some of the new characters/locations/events for the new generation of kids that's getting into SW with these new movies.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Yeah, he's definitely Qui-Gon's boy. Qui-Gon kinda has a running subtext of being a bit starry eyed when it comes to prophecies and stuff, and seeing undue importance in everyone he meets (like dopey Gungans and snot nosed ten year olds, for example). In the TPM novelization, they basically say that's why he's not on the council... he's one of the best and most competent Jedi of all, but he's just a bit too much of a pain in the ass. I think Kenobi kind of inherits his mentor's tendencies, somewhat.
(This all may be a bit of headcanon, but I bet if I went through and itemized all the places in the story that support this it would be a surprisingly legit list.)
I enjoyed it more from the fan aspect than anything else. Really, the only thing the episode did right were the dangers of Tuskan Raiders and killing off Maul outright and getting him off the show. I did like that Obiwan seemed to know and had been playing over that specific scenario for a decent chunk of his time on Tatooine. Both right moves in an episode where next to nothing else happens. Regardless, the ending got me all misty eyed and nostalgic.
She sinks into the ground as she walks in. I don't think that is a physical form.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
There's no way she lived. Stretching it out like this is almost as weaksauce as, say, deciding at the last minute to not have Maul die to Vader only to have him hang off of Rebels S3 for three episodes like a filled appendix until Ben kills him in 3 seconds and cradles him like a baby asking for vengeance nobody gives a fuck about.
It's not the worst excuse. Although I'd rather have her wake up after the events of Aftermath: Empire's End so that we see her in a post-Empire galaxy rather than during their final days.
Then why not just come out and say it? Hell when Ashley Eckstein asked Filoni if Ashoka had died, he wouldn't tell her. Why dodge a simple answer?
thecouncil
Banned
what the hell? hahaha. was john wick a matrix prequel? what is happening with this post?
Secret Fawful
Member
This episode and fight were not a "mistake in judgment".
This is one of the most "epic" battles in Star Wars, because it's one of the most thematically-perfect and well thought out battles in Star Wars.
This is the
It couldn't BE better. That is impossible.
The best battles in Star Wars were always the shortest anyway.
This is one of the most "epic" battles in Star Wars, because it's one of the most thematically-perfect and well thought out battles in Star Wars.
This is the
perfect end to Maul's character.
The best battles in Star Wars were always the shortest anyway.
The way Filoni talked in the Celebration about fans reactions to her makes me think she'll comeback at some point and Filoni would like her to, but hopefully if she does it's something minor and she doesn't just waltz back into the rebellion like nothing happened.
If they're not gonna go past Rebels I think a Siege of Madalore special would be a good compromise, though I feel like they still can't figure out where the best medium to do it in is. (would be neat if they managed to get it as a one off animation movie, might be a hard pitch though)
If they're not gonna go past Rebels I think a Siege of Madalore special would be a good compromise, though I feel like they still can't figure out where the best medium to do it in is. (would be neat if they managed to get it as a one off animation movie, might be a hard pitch though)
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The mistake in judgment was letting him survive into S3. This is just the culmination of that mistake.
They left him alive to do this with him. This isn't, in my opinion, worth that exchange.
The idea that Maul deserves some sort of perfect poetic end doesn't make sense to me. He's a tool. He's always been a tool. Until he was brought back for Rebels, his purpose had been served. But then they brought him back - and properly used him as that tool again. Until they copped out on breaking him, and then let him be a poorly used tool to push Ezra's character along a path they quickly abandoned. So now all you have left is Maul dying for Maul's sake, and no reason to give a shit about Maul's sake.
His ending is just Qui-Gon's ending, inverted. It's not perfect. It's repetitious.
It's some ring theory shit.
Chezzymann
Member
While the battle makes sense thematically I was still disappointed cause they basically hyped this up for an entire season and it only lasted a second.
Secret Fawful
Member
Are you insane? Seriously. I am legitimately asking if you are insane.
How can you look at that kind of character development and that interaction between the two characters and the way it informs them both and call it a mistake?
It's literally nothing like Qui-Gon's ending outside of his final words. How can you seriously sit there and argue against thematic relevance for ANY character? Unless a character is racist or offensive in some way, there is no reason not to improve upon them if it's possible. The idea that you shouldn't is ludicrous to me. I'm actually getting bizarrely angry about this.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm looking at the "character development" and it's not there. Nothing's developed. Ezra isn't changed really. Maul isn't, either.
I edited my post above, check that out.
I edited my post above, check that out.
So you're saying she survived.
Secret Fawful
Member
Learning more about who a character is and what motivates them is character development. Up until now I have never gotten a sense from Maul that there is anything going on with his character more than blarrgh Sith betray make Sith good big bad again.
An interaction where we learn he's a broken, pathetic creature holding onto and motivated and informed by his greatest failure without ever telling us that in words, simply by watching how he fights, is character development. And it's good character development. Especially for Star Wars. It's also the best scene I have ever seen Maul in. You can't take a one-dimension character, make them more three-dimensional, and then say "well I have made a huge mistake".
An interaction where we learn he's a broken, pathetic creature holding onto and motivated and informed by his greatest failure without ever telling us that in words, simply by watching how he fights, is character development. And it's good character development. Especially for Star Wars. It's also the best scene I have ever seen Maul in. You can't take a one-dimension character, make them more three-dimensional, and then say "well I have made a huge mistake".
Bobby Roberts
Banned
fuck
We already knew this. It's the exact same motivation he's had since he was resurrected in Clone Wars.
Invert Phantom Menace's ending, top it off with the Binary Sunset. Mission accomplished.
Secret Fawful
Member
smh
Just seems way too reductive of the thought process Filoni was going with for this. I doubt he thought of it in those terms, even if you do.
I need to quit talking about this now and take a Zoloft or I'm going to lose my cool. Which is especially weird because I don't even like Star Wars or Rebels. I think I just have an attachment to this scene because it's the first scene I have ever seen from Rebels that made me feel ANYTHING, but I don't know how to explain why beyond being impressed by the fact that Filoni put this much thought into this character at all. It's not a mistake for me because it worked for me. You can think whatever you want, I guess. My argument is based on emotion and on Filoni's thought process, and I'm not confident enough in myself or in him to argue further.
I need a drink. I hate Star Wars.
ProtomanNeo
Member
Both here and in other sources I've seen people assume that the reason that Kenobi knows who Ezra is, has to be via a conversation with Yoda. While that's possible I don't think that has to be the case. Powerful Jedi are obviously capable of some form of remote viewing so he may have been watching Ezra himself.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think Filoni thought it out that much at all is precisely what I'm arguing.
I mean, it's not even much of a secret that large chunks of Clone Wars are not much more than remaking his favorite films in a Star Wars milieu. You can describe a lot of 4-episode blocks as "Ahsoka in Hitchcock's ______________" "Anakin Skywalker in Kurosawa's _________________"
He has his own shorthand that he relies on, and his own shortcuts he likes to take from a storytelling perspective. This whole Maul thing was apparently an audible, and the three-episode coda he got in this season of Rebels feels like it only has any strength that it has because it managed to repurpose the ending of Phantom Menace, and closed with the Binary Sunset.
Secret Fawful
Member
Honestly, it's dumb that I got so upset about this, because I don't like this show or Clone Wars. The only Star Wars animated show I've ever liked was the Gennedy one.
However, I've liked ideas from Rebels, namely this scene and the way they handled Ahsoka's relationship with Anakin now that he's Vader. I feel if there was a character Anakin should ultimately kill, it's not Maul, it's Ahsoka.
The main thing that upset me is that I don't know how to reconcile the fact that I liked Filoni's idea with your argument, which makes absolute sense to me. The way I work is that if an idea is stupid, I can no longer enjoy or like it. It's stupid, but that's who I am. So if Filoni's idea is actually shallow, idiotic, or recycled, and I like it, I don't know how to reconcile that. That's the real reason I even started this argument, and most arguments about movies or TV I like in general.
But this is Rebels, and Rebels is not something I really think of as smart usually, so that just makes your reading of Filoni's thought process more likely to me than mine, and that is frustrating. Because I like this scene! And I don't even know why or how to articulate it properly!
I feel like you just turned me into Darth Maul and Obi-Wanned me.
Twilight Gap
Member
Hyping up Maul's return was stupid as it set unnecessary expectations, and Rebel's budget doesn't do anything that happens on this show justice. But the way it was handled themeatically, and at least as far as writing goes, was more or less what needed to be done. The more I've thought about it, the more I think it was fine.
But man this show stinks. The unfinished episodes of TCW were still more fun to watch.
Both of these characters essentially took everything from one another - Maul took Qui Gon and Satine from Obi Wan, and Obi Wan took Maul's purpose from him. But Obi Wan was able to move past that, and Maul was not, dedicating the remainder of his life to revenge. Bringing Maul back from the dead to give Obi Wan some character development is a plus in my book, because he's always felt undercooked.
But man this show stinks. The unfinished episodes of TCW were still more fun to watch.
CloudyTuba
Member
Haha I guess not.
"Well, I don't know. We thought Anakin was the chosen one but he didn't destroy the sith so that didn't really pan out. I saved his kid though and he seems pretty force sensitive so we got a shot there. Qui-Gon told me I needed to protect him so maybe he's the one, then again he also told me Anakin was the one so maybe he's just full of shit, but he's a magic ghost now so there's a good chance that this time he... Oh, um. Oh."
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
fuckin pervy old kenobi
Lifejumper
Member
I saw the duel more as an mercy killing tbh.
That is precisely what he did. He just joined up with them for a while first.
CloudyTuba
Member
Obi-wan doesn't know that yet, give it a few years.
But that was a joke so I don't know why we're talking continuity right now in the first place.
Ah, I see what you were doing. My mistake.
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