-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star Wars Rebels Season 3 |OT| Dark Forces Rising
- Thread starter The Flash
- Start date
- Status
C00kie M0nster
Member
GeorgioCostanzaX
Member
It's an entire arc ending. They've actually been kind of skillful at doing multi-part narratives this season even if they're not necessarily in sequential order of air date like Clone Wars. It started with the season premiere and last season finale. Built to the witches of Dathomir and dark saber and now it's brought full circle.
I actually loved the episode, quite poetic really and good use of air time. It shouldn't affect the trilogy arc and having Kenobi go off planet on some damn fool idealistic crusade would be irresponsible and out of character. I loved how they reinforced that: he's there on a secret mission to protect Luke and in turn having Bail Organa fake his death is a protection for Leia as well. Plus showing a hippity hoppy light saber battle a la Phantom Menace would have seriously made the ANH Kenobi vs Darth battle seem all the more archaic: one quick samurai eqsque one hit anime kill was a cool way to do it without retconing Alec Guinness to have wushu skills
GeorgioCostanzaX
Member
Kinda disagree. The Maul Arc laid the foundation for making Sabine more interesting after they wasted her potential for 2.5 seasons. For that reason alone I'm more than okay with this. Honestly he never should have been resurrected even during the Clone Wars so let's not fool ourselves: at least they were able to make that entire resurrection of a dude who had no business being alive after being cut in half at the Torso mean something.
Having him randomly pop up in one episode and then die at Vaders hands would have been totally pointless and would have made the move to resurrect him in the first place all the more preposterous.
Also the whole reference to Maul meddling with fate and altering how events should have played out according to, I don't know, the will of the Force or something got me thinking that maybe they were all actually fated to escape or die in that temple last season if Maul hadn't intervened: wouldn't put it against Kenobi and Yoda to manipulate the last remaining Jedi into a death trap so that their twisted power fantasy of Luke destroying the empire through love would pan out 
Bobby Roberts
Banned
For what it was? Not bad. Okay.
How it played out? Again: Pretty decent.
But yeah, this was ultimately a mistake in judgment. He shouldn't have even been in this season. The whole thing is a three-episode cul-de-sac.
How it played out? Again: Pretty decent.
But yeah, this was ultimately a mistake in judgment. He shouldn't have even been in this season. The whole thing is a three-episode cul-de-sac.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Well, that was...fast.
BattleMonkey
Member
So glad, hated Maul in this show. And it got worse this season when literally Darth FUCKING Maul is not seen as a menace by the characters. They literally tell him to "go away" like he was just some nuisance. Hes a fucking dark side murder machine, and hes acting goofy as shit and characters think hes a pest. And instead of interesting villains or developing shit in this show, they keep going back to old characters. We need more Rex, Asohka, Maul, Vader, and so on. Taken 3 seasons for Sabine to develop anything
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'll give Filoni this:
It's one of the best directed episodes of the season.
And he actually made me give a fuck about Chopper for a second.
It's one of the best directed episodes of the season.
And he actually made me give a fuck about Chopper for a second.
Lifejumper
Member
How did Ezra know Tatooine was the planet?
GeorgioCostanzaX
Member
If he were a menace Palpatine would have noticed and killed him long ago. He shouldn't have been brought back to,life in the first place during Clone Wars but they did their best to close him put in a meaningful way.
Twin Suns?
Confused about this too, he found out the planet had Twin Suns in the holocron episode, but when did he find out it was Tatooine specifically?
FriendlyGoat
Member
If my options are to watch Ezra research Twin Sun planets on screen only to discover something that the audience knows, or to assume to he did in in between episodes, then I'll gladly take the latter. Problem solved.
I dug the episode, though honestly if you wanna talk filler this fits the bill just as much as any other episode (though I don't agree that any episodes are "filler"), considering it mostly exists to put
Maul to rest
Maul is Gollum. That's about sums it up. He may have been able to go toe to toe with young Obi but by the time he makes it to Tatoonie, he's a broken creature. He's been bisected, tortured, and driven crazy by obsession and isolation. They really should have messed with his appearance more to really hit home exactly how much older he is now and that he's not the same person he used to be. He can still hang with low end force users and normals, but he was never going to be able to stand up to a guy who once went toe to toe with max level Vader. This is basically a mercy killing for someone who just can't let go.
BattleMonkey
Member
They did a fine job with him in the Clone Wars. Maul in Rebels has been nothing but annoying.
I did like how
Maul had been obsessing over this fight forever, and as soon as he finally gets what he wants he's effortlessly offed by Kenobi, who has long since stopped worrying about his old enemy.
I suppose, just strikes me as somewhat sloppy writing.
As to the actual episode:
I really enjoyed it for the most part, was kind of shocked at how quickly the fight ended, like everyone else. But I suppose it makes sense, it would be weird to have a drawn out TPM style episode. I do feel they probably shouldn't have hyped this up in the trailer as much as they did, as I could see some people feeling a little cheated. I really liked the part when Ezra was wandering through the sandstorm with Maul's eerie voice calling out to him though, and the voice actor for Old Ben was spot on.
The episode turned out better than I had feared it might. They didn't trample on anything from the OT at all, IMHO. Ben was portrayed perfectly, no longer the PT younger Jedi but now much older and wiser. The
doesn't really make too much sense to me but whatever. I thought this episode would not involve the regular crew at all. So Ezra has confirmed Obi-Wan is alive, which the Force already revealed to him. Will he tell anyone? We know that some of the rebels know he is still alive from the events of ANH when Leia is on her way to him.
The quick
was more satisfying than a Phantom Menace style flip-and-slash-fest, to me. The final epilogue scene with the swelling ANH John Williams theme during the credits was a powerful Star Wars moment, for me!
holocron deception
The quick
defeating of Maul
Overall, I really enjoyed it.
Kenobi was well written and well voiced and Chopper was particularly funny in this episode. I got a real kick out of him surprising Ezra in the A-wing. I think they spent a little too long on Ezra and Chopper wandering around and hallucinating about Maul. I was also underwhelmed by the fight in the moment but, in retrospect, it really would not have made sense any other way. Also thought it was kind of weird that Kenobi held Maul like he was an old friend as he died.
So is Ezra just going to keep Obi-Wan's secret then? I guess he has to for the benefit of the OT but I think it would be interesting if he just said "he's alive but he won't be helping us, he believes the Force has other plans" and see how the Rebellion would deal with having a vaunted hero seemingly abandoning them.
So is Ezra just going to keep Obi-Wan's secret then? I guess he has to for the benefit of the OT but I think it would be interesting if he just said "he's alive but he won't be helping us, he believes the Force has other plans" and see how the Rebellion would deal with having a vaunted hero seemingly abandoning them.
ZeroGravity
Member
Way to drop the ball on something you've been hyping up all season.
You could have drawn out the fight for AT LEAST a minute and not have changed anything while still letting people savor what they've been expecting for a long time.
I have to agree. I'm really not a fan of any of the Clone Wars carry overs to Rebels. That show made so many awful decisions, and I'm not thrilled seeing them pull so much weight, here.
Maul's introduction was exciting, but that's really just because of what he did to Kanan. Since that is such an underdeveloped plot thread this season - he has two monologues about self doubt then proceeds to function totally unhindered - the whole affair is diminished. Vader might as well have been the one to do it instead of dragging Maul back into the mix just for this. Or just not do it at all if there's no signification impact.
I've had to stop watching this show since the Saw Gerrera episode due to overwhelming disappointment when waiting 1-3 weeks for these episodes, hoping that binging the rest of the season may assuage my negativity.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
We keep spoiler bars until it airs West Coast, right? I doublechecked the OP and the first couple pages but there doesn't seem to be any solidly stated rule? People just kinda... spoilering and then not spoilering at various times.
I'll go ahead and black-bar some of this shit then:
This was one of the best directed episodes of the show. Up there with Twilight of the Apprentice and Trials of the Darksaber. I don't just mean the way shots are framed and lit - although this episode, like those, features some of the most well-designed imagery in the series. I mean the pacing, the acting, the sense of movement. The characterization, as well.
I guess the biggest compliment I can pay Dave Filoni is that he, for the first time in this series, managed to get me to care a little bit about Chopper. If you're at all familiar with my bloviating on Star Wars, and this show specifically, you know that's a pretty tall order. Yet he served it up.
People are going to complain about
, and people are going to counteract those complaints with reams of references to the cinematic building blocks of this episode, and Star Wars as a whole. Both sides will have their merits.
. The frame-by-frames are coming, I'm sure.
extracted and .gif'd to reveal moments that will have fans rubbing their chin like Wee-Bey in The Wire.
But
isn't really important. And expecting some
was always sorta silly. It was never going to go down like that.
My problem with the episode is that
, the dramatic thrust, the narrative punch, is low-gear. And I think that's largely due to the fact that trying to use Maul as his own story engine, as opposed to Maul providing motivation and learning moments for other charactersmaking him a catalyst as opposed to making him a central figure, is a mistake. He's not really built for that. It was a miracle it managed to happen in Clone Wars, and even then, he's primarily effective because of the way his actions continually make the lives of everyone near him appreciably worse.
That makes him a great villain, by the way. Understanding a villain, even partially sympathizing with a villain: That stuff is good. It's often necessary. But Maul in Rebels is not Maul in Clone Wars. He's a man without a country, and with
, there's not enough there to make that situation interesting *for Maul's sake*.
So they used him as a tool to set up Ezra's darkside wobbling - but that got resolved perfunctorily, and hasn't really been dealt with since. He is in Rebels solely to apply pressure to Ezra's character. And on that front, this episode, just like his presence in the series entire, is disappointing.
Ezra doesn't really learn anything he didn't already know. Ezra isn't really brought low or forced to transform in any way he hasn't already.
. I'm not saying he should be shunned or reprimanded strongly. But so far as Ezra's character path going forward - it doesn't. It's a cul-de-sac
So you have to then look at this episode as nothing much more
.
**
** And *why* should we? I don't feel an argument was successfully made by anyone behind this show as to why we should care about that. And upon learning that
?
Nah. Not feeling it. If anything, I'd argue the result here is
.
Again - visually, one of the best episodes. Stanton's performance as Old Ben was pretty damned great, even if he had to cough up some serious word-clods a couple times. And
.
But it's hard not to come away from this thing thinking it was, yet again, a poor use of storytelling time, to serve a purpose the show never really earned.
I'll go ahead and black-bar some of this shit then:
This was one of the best directed episodes of the show. Up there with Twilight of the Apprentice and Trials of the Darksaber. I don't just mean the way shots are framed and lit - although this episode, like those, features some of the most well-designed imagery in the series. I mean the pacing, the acting, the sense of movement. The characterization, as well.
I guess the biggest compliment I can pay Dave Filoni is that he, for the first time in this series, managed to get me to care a little bit about Chopper. If you're at all familiar with my bloviating on Star Wars, and this show specifically, you know that's a pretty tall order. Yet he served it up.
People are going to complain about
the length of the fight
The fight was very, very short, and yet it was appropriate, and done well for the short amount of time it happened
Individual moves are going to be
But
the fight itself
Phantom Menace tomfoolery
My problem with the episode is that
aside from giving Maul some closure
That makes him a great villain, by the way. Understanding a villain, even partially sympathizing with a villain: That stuff is good. It's often necessary. But Maul in Rebels is not Maul in Clone Wars. He's a man without a country, and with
only three episodes
So they used him as a tool to set up Ezra's darkside wobbling - but that got resolved perfunctorily, and hasn't really been dealt with since. He is in Rebels solely to apply pressure to Ezra's character. And on that front, this episode, just like his presence in the series entire, is disappointing.
Ezra doesn't really learn anything he didn't already know. Ezra isn't really brought low or forced to transform in any way he hasn't already.
Ezra is told everyone knows Lothal means more to him than everyone else, and the first thing he does upon having that reaffirmed, is to bail on Lothal and all his responsibilities. And he gets a group hug at the end of it
So you have to then look at this episode as nothing much more
than Maul's weird, way too damn busy for its own good, path to closure
**
But who really gives a damn about whether Maul gets closure?
this three-episode cul-de-sac of Maul & Ezra's shared obsession with the Twin Suns is the result of a decision not to have Maul die to Vader in S2, the waste feels even more prominent. Filoni said the decision to reject his first storytelling instinct was partially due to its feeling "Fanservicey," but I'd argue taking three episodes to put Ezra in the same place he was at the end of Season 2, for the sake of giving Maul the closure he was never successfully shown to have deserved, for the sake of providing the closing parentheses on the echoes/rhymes from Episode I
Nah. Not feeling it. If anything, I'd argue the result here is
*more* "fanservicey" than what he was trying to avoid
Again - visually, one of the best episodes. Stanton's performance as Old Ben was pretty damned great, even if he had to cough up some serious word-clods a couple times. And
that fight itself, for as short as it was, was very well done, and fitting - almost as fitting as the choice to save Ben's theme for both the pre-amble to the fight, and then its full statement over the closing credits
But it's hard not to come away from this thing thinking it was, yet again, a poor use of storytelling time, to serve a purpose the show never really earned.
OricWindstar
Member
I am shocked that
they had the self control to not have Maul vs Vader happen.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Wasn't really self control considering what they did let happen.
Just bad judgment.
Just bad judgment.
OricWindstar
Member
Yeah, maybe self control is the wrong way to put it. I just assumed the second it was clear he was in the show that that was going to happen. I never really wanted to see it, but, as you said, it never feels like they justified his presence in any other way.
Not sure if I like that the duel ended so quickly.
In one sense, I was hoping for a really cool fight but it's definitely more somber the way things went down. I especially liked how Maul feels like Luke will avenge him for what the Sith did to him. That bit was pretty great.
In one sense, I was hoping for a really cool fight but it's definitely more somber the way things went down. I especially liked how Maul feels like Luke will avenge him for what the Sith did to him. That bit was pretty great.
KoruptData
Member
That was an amazing episode and that last scene tugged at my heart strings.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Considering that Samurai were one of the main influences behind the concept of the Jedi, that makes a lot of sense.
AlimNassor
Banned
I think in the end Maul came to the light. Maul could never be good and it's only by dying at the hands of his rival could he finally get the peace he wanted.
I like the theory that Maul was seeking to die. He had nothing, literally, nothing. All that he had left was revenge against those who wronged him. Why else would he accept his death? Why else would he ask Obi-Wan if Luke was the Chosen one who would avenge them? he wanted to die.
I like the theory that Maul was seeking to die. He had nothing, literally, nothing. All that he had left was revenge against those who wronged him. Why else would he accept his death? Why else would he ask Obi-Wan if Luke was the Chosen one who would avenge them? he wanted to die.
Hellwarden
Member
I rather liked the scenes concerning Ezra just trying to find Kenobi. Had a very enjoyably classic Star Wars feel. Using the force to find the sith holocron, barely surviving the ambush. Had some rather nice imagery too. Hell they even made me care for Chopper a bit this episode, and that alone is an achievement. I'm not bothered by the fact that the fight is short. It's suiting that it not be drawn out. What am I bothered by is the fact that
Ezra left without seeing it at all. Ezra was the one other person in the universe who had a relationship with Maul. We've seen the constant pull Maul has on Ezra. This episode didn't really build on that much. (Also would Ezra really just leave like that? Just when a fight is about to break out?) We haven't really seen Maul enough to feel his personal struggle, so his death felt a bit flat to me.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
^^Those are pretty decent points I hadn't considered. Helps explain the hollow feeling at the center of the episode even further.
Twin Suns thoughts:
I think hyping up the final duel like they did was a mistake. As soon as I checked my phone during a commercial break and saw that there were only ten minutes left I knew the duel wasn't going to be as much of a spectacle as the trailers made it seem. And that's fine! But my initial reaction was disappointment, especially after this episode being billed as the final duel between two long time rivals.
Personally, I'm not yet sure how I feel about the episode itself, but I will admit that I did think the duel was a nice end for Maul. The only thing keeping him going at this point was hatred and revenge - he can no longer be a Sith lord, a ruler of worlds, nor can he even bring down the man (Palpatine) that set him on this path; all he had left was a final duel that he had been clinging to for God knows how long. And I think having him die in Kenobi's arms was a nice way to close the book on that. We see Maul worn out but also finally at peace. He knows that Luke will make things right - from Maul's perspective that might not be the most altruistic thought - and he's finally able to put aside the hatred and rest.
But I think his death lacks the weight it should, because like I said in an earlier post, Maul's presence in Rebels is squandered. Bobby puts it quite well in his post: the Maul of Clone Wars is not the Maul from Rebels. There's very little emotional weight to his death, even as a Clone Wars fan. I know that Filoni and crew had originally planned for the TCW finale to have Ahsoka fight Maul on Mandalore, and I think to end his story there would have had much more of an impact. But obviously, we would never get that ending. With Maul's appearance and death in Rebels, it comes off as more of an obligation to finish a previous plotline. I'm glad that Lucasfilm is trying to tie up the loose ends, but I think this particular story suffers for it.
Personally, I'm not yet sure how I feel about the episode itself, but I will admit that I did think the duel was a nice end for Maul. The only thing keeping him going at this point was hatred and revenge - he can no longer be a Sith lord, a ruler of worlds, nor can he even bring down the man (Palpatine) that set him on this path; all he had left was a final duel that he had been clinging to for God knows how long. And I think having him die in Kenobi's arms was a nice way to close the book on that. We see Maul worn out but also finally at peace. He knows that Luke will make things right - from Maul's perspective that might not be the most altruistic thought - and he's finally able to put aside the hatred and rest.
But I think his death lacks the weight it should, because like I said in an earlier post, Maul's presence in Rebels is squandered. Bobby puts it quite well in his post: the Maul of Clone Wars is not the Maul from Rebels. There's very little emotional weight to his death, even as a Clone Wars fan. I know that Filoni and crew had originally planned for the TCW finale to have Ahsoka fight Maul on Mandalore, and I think to end his story there would have had much more of an impact. But obviously, we would never get that ending. With Maul's appearance and death in Rebels, it comes off as more of an obligation to finish a previous plotline. I'm glad that Lucasfilm is trying to tie up the loose ends, but I think this particular story suffers for it.
Lifejumper
Member
Great interview with Dave Filoni about the episode:
http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-producer-of-star-wars-rebels-on-tonights-incredible-1793376931
BrokenFiction
Member
I thought I was ready.
I wasn't ready.
But I did love it. And I have a lot more questions than answers. Damn you, Season 4, for being so far away!
I wasn't ready.
But I did love it. And I have a lot more questions than answers. Damn you, Season 4, for being so far away!
BrokenFiction
Member
Pablo "Uatu" Hidalgo‏
@pablohidalgo
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/843295822360072193
@pablohidalgo
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/843295822360072193
Find out more about what I wonder?
I thought they handled the ending of the episode perfectly.
That's how I imagine most light saber battles ending. Kenobi mercy killed him in one efficient and masterful strike.
Hearing the JW original score while seeing the silhouette of little Luke running to the house, with Kenobi watching from afar, gave me chills.
Hearing the JW original score while seeing the silhouette of little Luke running to the house, with Kenobi watching from afar, gave me chills.
BrokenFiction
Member
- Status