Good idea. Uh, anyone know how I can stop watching the trailer?
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Star Wars: The Force Awakens Final Trailer
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Good idea. Uh, anyone know how I can stop watching the trailer?
The new canon is currently making it pretty clear that after Endor the Empire immediately fractured and fell into civil war, with generals and moffs declaring themselves emperor and battling each other, other governors splitting off entire sectors as their own personal kingdoms, the chain of command collapsing, etc. Mas Amedda tries to keep the Core together with body doubles pretending to be the emperor but everyone sees through it.
Palpatine never established a proper line of succession after he dissolved the Senate because he believed he would live forever.
Also the Coruscant celebrations get put down pretty quickly and a planetwide resistance movement kicks up that slogs on.
So they also wiped out living memory from 10 trillion people?
Let us be honest and admit that it makes no sense but is good because it makes the force and jedis cooler again.
kaiju
Member
ESB didn't just regurgitate New Hope, ROTJ didn't just regurgitate ESB. Its a good thing if these movies can stand to be remembered for things in isolation, as well as becoming part of a greater whole.
Continuity in cinematography and visual language for a film franchise is just basic branding. Brands have a visual language, Star Wars more than most. Companies re-brand things all the time, and maybe there'll be a little of that here -- it's hard to tell from these tiny trailers. Even if these movies do, that's not a bad thing, but its risky. It stands out. I'm open minded.
This is something to be remembered too. In the original release of ROTJ, ending the OT, the ending is the Rebels having a big celebration after destroying the Death Star, Darth Vader and the Emperor himself.
The galaxy wide twitter notification of "Empy + Vader ded, go Rebels #Endor" with accompanying New Age flutes was added in the special edition, right alongside Greedo's appalling level of accuracy at point blank range.
CloudyTuba
Member
The movie seems to be clearly taking more inspiration from the OT in this area and in general. The Jedi and the force were already treated as myths when ANH started. The fact that the prequels didn't quite match is just up to George's decisions. Honestly I'm glad they're ignoring that blunder and going with the OT jedi treatment.
But we can still reason out way out of this problem with a little suspension of disbelief. 10,000 jedi in an entire galaxy of citizens, and when they're traveling they generally try to keep quiet and keep their hoods on. Statistically it would be incredibly rare to ever meet a jedi unless you actually lived near the temple. Then they stopped existing.
Combine nobody you know ever having seen one plus 50 years (20 after PT +30 after OT) since anyone has really seen one, the younger crowd might think it's a made up story. Nothing but rumors from a friend of a friend of a friend from before you were born.
The Empire probably would have suppressed or removed even the slightest mention of Jedi in the entire galaxy during that time as well.
The book Star Wars Aftermath sort of puts a damper on those celebrations. Spoilers of course.
Word gets out that the death star has been destroyed, the emperor and vader have been killed, and the empire is on the run. This inspires uprisings all over the galaxy. Most of them enjoy a few minutes of celebration before getting fucked up by the local imperial garrison and the festivities are dispersed.
Over time the empire loses its grasp on places like this and goes on the run but not without blood.
The Empire also maintains that the emperor is still alive and that his death is nothing but rebel propaganda. It's their word against the rebels, and nobody really knows for sure what happened on the death star before it blew. How would they?
That line in the trailer has been bugging me since I saw it
"It's real all of it"
Umm, wouldn't the rebels after ROTJ shout from the rooftops how they have a Jedi and that's part of how they beat the Empire?
It'd be great propaganda
I just don't see how those two wouldn't know all the stuff that happened only like 30 years ago
It was probably the most important thing in their recent lives
It'd be like Children in the 70's not knowing who Hitler, Stalin and FDR were
"It's real all of it"
Umm, wouldn't the rebels after ROTJ shout from the rooftops how they have a Jedi and that's part of how they beat the Empire?
It'd be great propaganda
I just don't see how those two wouldn't know all the stuff that happened only like 30 years ago
It was probably the most important thing in their recent lives
It'd be like Children in the 70's not knowing who Hitler, Stalin and FDR were
BattleMonkey
Member
It's a galaxy with over a million planets, at their height, there was only a couple thousand Jedi at most almost 60 years prior. Even at the height of the jedi order, most people in the SW galaxy will have never seen a Jedi in their lifetimes.
It's similar to warhammer 40k, the space marines are everywhere in the media, but in the actual universe, they are just legend since almost no one will ever see one in person.
The jedi didn't win Endor or the war. Luke and Vader and all that was a private duel between two people in a galaxy wide war involving millions
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Like I said before, this seems to be following the OT more in that regard. And it's Han talking from experience. To him the Force was like a legend. Also, he's talking to kids probably not familiar with it.
both movies have a death star = regurgitated?
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Kylo's voice is just awesome. The moment he speaks while looking at Vader's mask gave me the shook.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
If Shaolin monks actually had superpowers and all of them got murdered one night, how many people in 50 years would automatically believe if they met a surviving Shaolin monk that he had superpowers?
There were 10,000 Jedi during the Clone Wars. 10,000. Across an entire galaxy. There were some other Force-using sects, like the Nightsisters and the Dagoyan Masters, but they kept to themselves, and the Sith were a secret. The Jedi basically acted as a special police force for the Republic but otherwise spent most of their time meditating in their Temple. Why would the average joe on Dirt World #3453 in the Outer Rim ever believe that the Jedi were anything other than monks who used magic tricks and misdirection?
Why would it? Disney owns these movies. Its just going to have the Lucasfilm logo. Maybe Bad Robot.
There were 10,000 Jedi during the Clone Wars. 10,000. Across an entire galaxy. There were some other Force-using sects, like the Nightsisters and the Dagoyan Masters, but they kept to themselves, and the Sith were a secret. The Jedi basically acted as a special police force for the Republic but otherwise spent most of their time meditating in their Temple. Why would the average joe on Dirt World #3453 in the Outer Rim ever believe that the Jedi were anything other than monks who used magic tricks and misdirection?
Why would it? Disney owns these movies. Its just going to have the Lucasfilm logo. Maybe Bad Robot.
brandonh83
Banned
BFIB
Member
We see Jedi everywhere in the prequels, because they are focused on Jedi activities.
Odds are there are only a select few who have actually seen the Jedi in action. Once Palpatine had taken full control, he even got the Senate to buy into him being disfigured from an attack from the Jedi.
In the OT, no one has seen a Jedi in well over 18 years or so, and likely had never even seen one in action. In Empire, we see Luke fight a Wampa, train with no other witnesses other than Yoda and R2, and fight Vader with no witnesses. In ROTJ, we finally see Luke in action in front of witnesses, and they are mostly killed. He fights Vader on the Death Star, no one actually sees it again.
So in the larger context, it is very easy to create this "myth" about the Jedi as a whole. The population is easily swayed. Heck, it happens on our planet, and its very small.
Odds are there are only a select few who have actually seen the Jedi in action. Once Palpatine had taken full control, he even got the Senate to buy into him being disfigured from an attack from the Jedi.
In the OT, no one has seen a Jedi in well over 18 years or so, and likely had never even seen one in action. In Empire, we see Luke fight a Wampa, train with no other witnesses other than Yoda and R2, and fight Vader with no witnesses. In ROTJ, we finally see Luke in action in front of witnesses, and they are mostly killed. He fights Vader on the Death Star, no one actually sees it again.
So in the larger context, it is very easy to create this "myth" about the Jedi as a whole. The population is easily swayed. Heck, it happens on our planet, and its very small.
how many of these trillions was in conflict planet during the war? How many actually saw a Jedi?
The Clone Wars show that many developed planets saw the Jedi as normal stuff while for others they were monsters.
Add 20 years of propaganda, missinformation, silencing and censorship and its not hard to see what happened.
Yes, but would it be great propaganda to proclaim they were working with a Jedi...even considering the fact that half the galaxy have been duped by the Empire into thinking the Jedi tried to overthrow the Republic less than thirty years earlier?
Now, back to the real issues. Will Dexter Jettster appear in the film?
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
In the new canon novels and comics, Imperial propaganda denied that the Emperor died, using a double as a stand in in holovids. Since the only witness to what happened was Luke, and we really don't know what he did after Endor yet, it's not hard to imagine the events of ROTJ have become nothing more that rumor and legend. By this point the Jedi have been extinct for at least 50 years, and were nearly mythical by the time of ANH. Even less would have been known about the Sith.
Luke isn't the face of the rebellion, he's just one guy. A hugely important and instrumental guy, but if he's not in the spotlight at all after ROTJ, then how would most people know who he is at all?
I guess that'll be an easy fan edit when the movie hits home release.
ZoltanXerxes
Member
Man tears.....oh my.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
After the initial excitement, I do wish the trailer would give out more of the plot - but maybe that's intentional from Disney.
Still hype though!
Still hype though!
Great arguments, i'm on your side, i think we know exactly what we need to know, nothing more is necessary.
Rhomega Beta
Member
Well considering there's a bunch of people who don't pay attention during history at all..
I didn't say the entire film was. But ideas were certainly regurgitated. This was a criticism of the film all the way back in 1983, it's not new.
For instance the Death Star repeat wasn't the original plan, earlier drafts had them go to the Empire's seat of power in Coruscant.
Plus it started the "let's all go to Tatooine the remote desert world with nothing on it" thing the PT couldn't get enough of.
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks for the answers, just watched the first one: A New Hope. Fucking loved it. The acting is kinda bad and the dialogue cheesy and it had some other issues (loved the pacing). But it has this magic to it.
Count me in.
Count me in.
You also have to imagine that going from Senate ruled democracy to jackboot thug Stormtrooper enforced dictatorship -- a lot of people would have died. The deaths of the Jedi would have been dwarfed by the millions of deaths of those who resisted Imperial rule in the intervening years. No mystical robed heroes came to save the people, so its not so hard to believe they would pass in to Legend.
I don't need to know any more than this. We're also so close to December 18 anyway.
Luke is well known to the galaxy for being the pilot who destroyed the Death Star, not for being a Jedi. As far as we know, nobody even knows what happened at Endor. His first canonical appearance after Endor so far in the new comics and books is him three months later asking Poe Dameron's mom to fly him somewhere.
Palpatine's advisor, Yupe Tashu, comments that Luke has an "untouchable soul" so he may somehow know what was up on the Death Star II but other than that people have barely even mentioned him.
Palpatine's advisor, Yupe Tashu, comments that Luke has an "untouchable soul" so he may somehow know what was up on the Death Star II but other than that people have barely even mentioned him.
brandonh83
Banned
There is just so much context people are leaving out of this thought, especially assuming that their world(s) operates the same as ours. I have no trouble buying it. Rey is from a wasteland desert planet like Tatooine. I doubt there's schools or whatever, so yes, everything she knows is probably from stories or just what she's heard. She wasn't alive when this went down.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
So they'd probably not do
another round of "Skywalker is the bad guy with the mask and the red sword"
Even Luke barely understood what a Jedi was until the very end. In the context of the OT nobody really knew enough about the Jedi to be excited by one.
I always thought Palps could influence great numbers of people with the force and it was why he had maintained such control. Might also explain everyone forgetting about the Jedi.
Did they erase everyone's minds that encountered, saw, was saved by, or knew a Jedi?
rokkerkory
Member
I love watching the fan reactions to the trailers <3
inked_illusion
Member
super late to the party but is there a case to be made about Luke being the main antagonist, this is the final trailer and still no signs of Luke
brandonh83
Banned
kaiju
Member
Vestal
Junior Member
Who was there to see that battle with Vader? The only witness left from the duel with Vader is Luke himself. Additionally Luke wasn't directly involved in the victory. Sure he kept Vader from commanding the space battle, but that's about it if you look at the grand scheme of that battle.
hooijdonk17
Member
Kylo Ren is Luke and Adam Driver plays the man with the bionic hand.
Not really. Would have been great trolling though.
How many people in a galaxy is that really gonna be?
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
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