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[TheExodu5]

There's really only one MMO to compete. Everything else is pretty shit compared to WoW.
So it is better than every other MMO except WoW, but even then, TOR tips the scale in its favour with features WoW doesn't have.

Absolutely not. I believe there are other MMOs which compete with and surpass WoW in many ways: LOTRO and EvE being the two best examples I can think of. The problem with SWTOR is that regardless of how interesting the writing may be, the game is still dragged down by outdated mechanics and dreadfully boring class design.

WTF is a Londa?

Londa was a very devout Final Fantasy XIV fan...that's all that needs to be said, I suppose.

 

[vilmer_]

So it appears we are limited to 50 man city raids :lol Still going to play it, just not sure you can classify a game with areas at a 100 person limit an 'mmo'.

 

[Last Hearth]

First of all, this is all based on beta and what it's like in the final release might be different. Secondly, a 100 limit is something that they can fine-tune and adjust later one, so it's not like it's set in stone.

Of course, it's also entirely possible that SWTOR is more of a MORPG than a MMORPG. That the multi-player is more Diablo than WoW. Which I'm also fine with to be perfectly honest.

 

[TheDancingWatermelon]

Color me confused at all of this 50 vs 50 talk, seeing as a few hours ago we did open world pvp on Tatooine and had well over 70 people traveling together empire side. Supposedly there were 80+ on the republic, was interesting and fun, although a massive slide show and lag fest at times.

No one talked of instancing though, so where are we getting 50 vs 50? I could see everyone over 5 raids fyi.

I was under the impression it was announced that heavy instancing would be used to handle the launch load, but nothing more. Is there evidence somewhere to the contrary? And if so, then what did I just participate in? :lol

 

[cartoon_soldier]

For the normal beta testers here that went to high levels, did it feel like the mobs/questing gets tougher? Did you have to use in-combat heals a lot?

 

[LowParry]

Color me confused at all of this 50 vs 50 talk, seeing as a few hours ago we did open world pvp on Tatooine and had well over 70 people traveling together empire side. Supposedly there were 80+ on the republic, was interesting and fun, although a massive slide show and lag fest at times.

No one talked of instancing though, so where are we getting 50 vs 50? I could see everyone over 5 raids fyi.

I was under the impression it was announced that heavy instancing would be used to handle the launch load, but nothing more. Is there evidence somewhere to the contrary? And if so, then what did I just participate in? :lol

I was actually going to ask about this after seeing this:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=710797&page=3

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MkZmemH3sVM


That looks well over 100 people playing.

 

[JWong]

Absolutely not. I believe there are other MMOs which compete with and surpass WoW in many ways: LOTRO and EvE being the two best examples I can think of. The problem with SWTOR is that regardless of how interesting the writing may be, the game is still dragged down by outdated mechanics and dreadfully boring class design.

EVE is a completely different MMO than anything. It won't get beyond its niche borders. Even with all the work done to make it more approachable, it's just not for everyone.

LOTRO isn't better than WoW with its animation-based (slow) combat and forced community profession skills. A lot of UI, pacing, and quest issues as well.

 

[Giolon]

Londa was a very devout Final Fantasy XIV fan...that's all that needs to be said, I suppose.

XD

The thing about the capacity of the World Instances - I wouldn't be surprised to see it go up over time. We don't even know that it IS only 100 people. When I first was in beta, the servers couldn't even handle 50 people on the same planet, let alone the same world instance.

 

[sykoex]

So it appears we are limited to 50 man city raids :lol Still going to play it, just not sure you can classify a game with areas at a 100 person limit an 'mmo'.

I'm just imagining the absurdity of your main city being raided, and not being able to get in and defend it because the instance is full of players on your side leveling or something.

 

[Jira]

EVE is a completely different MMO than anything. It won't get beyond its niche borders. Even with all the work done to make it more approachable, it's just not for everyone.

LOTRO isn't better than WoW with its animation-based (slow) combat and forced community profession skills. A lot of UI, pacing, and quest issues as well.

I was unaware that 400k subs and 100k new subs every year is a niche. Also, LoTRO actually has group content out in the world, lots of it. It also has a AA system in the form of Legendary items, something Blizzard could have put in years ago and used to retain subs because it gives you something to do to progress your character outside of raid or die. LoTRO also has a Skirmish system that gives players an alternate form of leveling as well as the randomness of the whole system.

 

[markatisu]

Works very well. I was probably the last person on NeoGaf with a PPC Mac, until I finally got the new iMac earlier this year. Installed Windows 7 on it so I could play Skyrim, which it runs wonderfully.

SWTOR Beta ran smooth on my 2011 Mac Mini as well under a Bootcamp Windows 7

 

[vilmer_]

I'm just imagining the absurdity of your main city being raided, and not being able to get in and defend it because the instance is full of players on your side leveling or something.

Exactly

 

[Moaradin]

Good thing that you can't raid the faction capitals then.

 

[Cystm]

For open world PVP? Not nearly. 50 v 50 is nothing more than Alterac Valley in WoW but with 10 more players on each side. That's a battleground, not open world PVP.

..lol

Try getting more than one 40 man raid in Ogrimmar without the server crawling to a halt.

50v50 is more than adequate and frankly, saying otherwise is just wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOm-YlM0UHE - 500+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kEmd874iko&feature=related - 300+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDpzZHxqEVQ&feature=related - 40 man. Holy shit the vent chat and music is just sad. "Take the kill shot for the history!" No server breaking lag though.


Hell, even AV lagged depending on the time of day. On KJ there is a guild that specifically raids Org en masse to lag people out and it doesn't take more than one group to accomplish that.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I was unaware that 400k subs and 100k new subs every year is a niche. Also, LoTRO actually has group content out in the world, lots of it. It also has a AA system in the form of Legendary items, something Blizzard could have put in years ago and used to retain subs because it gives you something to do to progress your character outside of raid or die. LoTRO also has a Skirmish system that gives players an alternate form of leveling as well as the randomness of the whole system.

Lotro is pretty competent mmo that suffers from the dreadfully boring universe for gaming purposes.

Eve is niche always been considered as such due to how different from the mold it is, but never something that will have mainstream player appeal, its for the hardcore of the hardcore.

 

[JWong]

I was unaware that 400k subs and 100k new subs every year is a niche. Also, LoTRO actually has group content out in the world, lots of it. It also has a AA system in the form of Legendary items, something Blizzard could have put in years ago and used to retain subs because it gives you something to do to progress your character outside of raid or die. LoTRO also has a Skirmish system that gives players an alternate form of leveling as well as the randomness of the whole system.

Yes, under half a million is niche. And I'm not even talking players, the design of the game is not approachable for even a regular gamer.

LotRO went free to play for a reason. It didn't do well. And it didn't do well because the game doesn't use the lore well with an ultra strong IP to work with.

..lol

Try getting more than one 40 man raid in Ogrimmar without the server crawling to a halt.

50v50 is more than adequate and frankly, saying otherwise is just wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOm-YlM0UHE - 500+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kEmd874iko&feature=related - 300+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDpzZHxqEVQ&feature=related - 40 man. Holy shit the vent chat and music is just sad. "Take the kill shot for the history!" No server breaking lag though.


Hell, even AV lagged depending on the time of day. On KJ there is a guild that specifically raids Org en masse to lag people out and it doesn't take more than one group to accomplish that.

Lol, remember this? The opening of Ahn'qiraj?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mELEr4UpbvI

Made the entire event unplayable as Silithus crashes the server for several days.

 

[Hawk269]

Has anyone heard if they plan to release a strategy guide for the game at launch?

 

[LowParry]

Still waiting on the 50 v 50 proof.

 

[Won]

Don't know how true the 50 player number is, but zones definitively felt altogether waaay too empty.

 

[jchap]

I played Bounty Hunter to 22 (merc), Sith Warrior to 18 (Juggernaut), and Jedi Consular to 18. I liked the Sith quests a lot better but the game really started to turn into a typical MMO grind after about the 3rd world. The story quests are great but get to be too far and few between.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

If you're engine can't support more than 100 players in a zone, it has no business being used in a MMO.

Agreed.

Ugh, that sucks. Why not give everyone their own instance then. And leave out the subscription fees

 

[Cystm]

Don't know how true the 50 player number is, but zones definitively felt altogether waaay too empty.

It's not just the number, it's what those people are doing all at once that makes servers cringe and fail. Imagine 100 different characters all spamming AoE abilities over and over off cool down in one location. There is no strategy, save /assist spamming (Which I am not sure this game even has, let alone target of target functionality at this point.)

It boils down to people doing this:

Until the server does this:

In a perfect world, yes people in 100+ raids would function as you would like to see an arena team function but, it is just not going to happen.



Edit: In terms of PvE running around questing and not roll facing all at once per se? Yeah that would seem a bit low, but don't underestimate people and what they will try to do on PvP, RP, or PvE servers to achieve "victory." I have never run into that many people, other than major cities on a server that had throughout it's lifespan 30 minute to 2 hour queues to get in because of the size of the population it had.

It really is just a clusterfuck of people running around spamming whatever in /trade chat.

Re-edit:

No thank you to this:

 

[Spiritreaver]

Not sure how feasible this is, but with the dance party, can't you try to get into a popular phase and count the amount of people currently in the zone? That should give us a good idea.

 

[Last Hearth]

Has anyone heard if they plan to release a strategy guide for the game at launch?

Here.

 

[Emitan]

Here.

How long before it's outdated? 2 months?

 

[Moaradin]

Lol there is a dance party going on
http://www.twitch.tv/towelliee

watch out for the commentating though.

 

[Giolon]

Well, I beat The Old Republic. Got to level 50 on my Jedi Consular and beat the class quest line. It felt pretty epic, and I thought the end was satisfying. I won't spoil anything for anyone, but I'll say that while the first 3/4 of the Consular storyline is absolutely boring and banal, the last quarter is pretty damn great. I'll be interested to see how the other classes compare, especially the ones that start out fantastic like BH and IA. There was sort of one mystery overall (to the galaxy) plot point that's just sort of tossed out there during the final cutscenes, and I can't help but wonder if it's something that's addressed on another class's questline.

The last time I got to 50, about 4 months and 4 builds ago, I got bugged out on what I thought was the 2nd to last class quest. It turns out - it was the LAST quest. T.T

There was previously a choice to be made on the prior quest, that because of the choice that I made, caused the subsequent quest to have no NPCs. What's funny, is that instead of fixing it, Bioware just cut it entirely. But I suppose it's for the best, b/c otherwise, Consulars would have had to go on the last portion of the game without one of their companions which would have been kind of shitty.

So now, it's like a deleted scene I guess.

Funny bug happened during the ending cutscene -- all my male companions were in their underwear but the one and only female companion was fully dressed.

 

[Moaradin]

Lol there is a dance party going on
http://www.twitch.tv/towelliee

watch out for the commentating though.

I'm dying right now holy shit.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Lemme guess, you're running Consular at launch Giolon, lol.

 

[Last Hearth]

How long before it's outdated? 2 months?

Probably, but the maps will still be useful, holocron locations, etc. Also I get these things more for the art than for the info.


Also, according to a post on the SWTOR testing forums, there were PVP battles of almost 200 people taking place this weekend, so the 50 vs 50 limit is definitely not true.

 

[Jira]

Yes, under half a million is niche. And I'm not even talking players, the design of the game is not approachable for even a regular gamer.

LotRO went free to play for a reason. It didn't do well. And it didn't do well because the game doesn't use the lore well with an ultra strong IP to work with.

It would appear my sarcasm went unnoticed. EVE is the only MMO in NA/Europe that is still gaining subs hand over fist every year. That is something not even WoW can say anymore. Gameplay niche or not, it is succeeding where many many others have failed and the reason for this is because it's different.

 

[Giolon]

Lemme guess, you're running Consular at launch Giolon, lol.

Yep. It's not my favorite class, but it's the class that's right for my character.

 

[TheDancingWatermelon]

Lol there is a dance party going on
http://www.twitch.tv/towelliee

watch out for the commentating though.

i'm in this right now and its amazing and terrifying at the same time. :lol

 

[Kintaro]

Jedi Sentinel for GAF Republic side.
Imperial Sniper for GAF Empire Side. =D

 

[daoster]

i'm in this right now and its amazing and terrifying at the same time. :lol

I wish I was apart of this right now.

 

[Deadly]

I won't spoil anything for anyone, but I'll say that while the first 3/4 of the Consular storyline is absolutely boring and banal, the last quarter is pretty damn great.

Is it worth going through all that 3/4 to get to the awesome last quarter though?

 

[Hawk269]

How long before it's outdated? 2 months?

I mainly want a guide because I am a fairy noob to the MMO scene. All the talk of professions, crafting and such is something I did not get too much into when I played Rift. I think Rift is a greaet game and I have had some fun, but TOR is something I been waiting for to jump into the MMO scene big time.

I would also think that a guide would have some good reference material for doing the different builds you can make as well.

Is there a good/definative site that has alot of information that a noob would find usefull? I registered my pre-order the day pre-orders started, so I should be in the 1st wave of early starters and kind of want to get up to speed. I did have one weekend of beta, but I work retail and pretty much did not have much time to play it for the 3 days I had..maybe 10-12 hours only.

Also am leaning towards Jedi Consular/Sage (Healer).

 

[Emitan]

http://www.torhead.com/ is starting to shape up. Darthater.com apparently has a database, but I've never checked it out.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Lol there is a dance party going on
http://www.twitch.tv/towelliee

watch out for the commentating though.

some people just want to see the world burn

 

[Hawk269]

Jedi Sentinel for GAF Republic side.
Imperial Sniper for GAF Empire Side. =D

How many of you are going to take more than one character through the story till the end for that class? Reading other forums and some of hte threads here and hearing some people having 2-4-6 level 85 characters in WOW just blows my mind. Who has that much time?

With my work schedule and daily life things, I am not sure if I will have time to even start a 2nd character. My plan is to do that cause alot of real life friends want to do a guild (10-15 strong) but they want empire....then i have another smaller group that wants to run republic, so I may have 2 characters overall...but was just curious what some of you plan to do as far as running multi-characters.

From what I played, I enjoyed the story and the way the game played like a sp-mmo hybrid type of game...but not sure that I have the time or the will to run through more than one story line.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Yep. It's not my favorite class, but it's the class that's right for my character.

Not judging I promise. I rolled a bounty hunter in beta, rolling one again at launch along with a trooper on the republic side. Yep. what's wrong with me?

 

[Giolon]

And it's over. I am so sad right now.

Is it worth going through all that 3/4 to get to the awesome last quarter though?

Probably not, but just know that if you're going into it and you think it sucks, I think it turns out pretty good in the end (at least for Light Side. No clue how Dark Side would play out).

Not judging I promise. I rolled a bounty hunter in beta, rolling one again at launch along with a trooper on the republic side. Yep. what's wrong with me?

BH is my #1. When I play Empire side, that's what I'll be.

 

[TheDancingWatermelon]

And it's over. I am so sad right now.

dance party with that towelliee stream in the background was a sight to see at least.

 

[Spiritreaver]

dance party with that towelliee stream in the background was a sight to see at least.

There was a hilarious mass suicide on Taugrim's stream, so awesome. I love the end of betas.

 

[squidyj]

i'm in this right now and its amazing and terrifying at the same time. :lol

Since I am just now entering the thread, what server and where? I was in one on Dromund Kaas on the Shawken Spire server and I instigated one there last weekend same server same place. Were you there?

Bounty Hunter is cool and all, and my Merc was incredibly OP at AoE but IA is the king of story time, hands down no contest.

 

[Emitan]

What's this about the beta being over?

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Moaradin]

What's this about the beta being over?

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

What the fuck?

Forever Alone.

 

[Emitan]

It's like KotOR III! Just me and NPCs...

 

[TheDancingWatermelon]

Since I am just now entering the thread, what server and where? I was in one on Dromund Kaas on the Shawken Spire server and I instigated one there last weekend same server same place. Were you there?

Bounty Hunter is cool and all, and my Merc was incredibly OP at AoE but IA is the king of story time, hands down no contest.

I was primarily on the Darth Malak server most of this phase, although last weekend I was on Fatman to hang out with some WoW guildies who are planning to make the jump.

Had I known there was another one of these...."events" occurring on Shawken, I might have had to roll a toon. Ah well. :lol

And hell yes to IA, I rolled one in beta just to mess with him, ended up reaching max level and spending the most time with him. Really enjoyed the Operative, and fully plan to play one as my main at launch.

 

[Squalltdx]

It all burned down in the end

Been testing for several months now. Loved it, hated it, gonna miss, but I'm glad it's finally over. Now it's time to put this baby out in the wild and hope for the best.