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[StudioTan]

It must have been the atmosphere/world/lore/graphics/sound effects that turned you off from WoW, because what you actually do in the two games is exactly the same.

The reason most post-WoW MMORPGs are basically the same is because, in an attempt to copy WoW's success, they try to copy its gameplay, too.

EQ2 came out at the same time as WoW so it's not a copy and it played almost exactly the same as far as I'm concerned. WoW hardly had many original ideas when it came out, I recall it being lauded for it's polish, scope and art direction not for it's innovation. WoW wasn't the first MMO I'd played but it never seemed much different to me.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

EQ2 came out at the same time as WoW so it's not a copy and it played almost exactly the same as far as I'm concerned. WoW hardly had many original ideas when it came out, I recall it being lauded for it's polish, scope and art direction not for it's innovation. WoW wasn't the first MMO I'd played but it never seemed much different to me.

I don't think you played EQ2 at launch if you think it played the same as WoW.

The two games had vastly different structures and gameplay mechanics at launch. Later, EQ2 rushed to copy WoW as quickly as possible. It's still quite different.

I'm starting to feel the drag/pull of the incredibly dull, repetitive quests.

It got to me when I reached Nar Shaddaa, and I just said to myself, "I can't do this anymore." It's only been two days, but I don't think I can go back to that. I may start up an Agent, though, since I hear the story is so good.

 

[Alex]

I liked vanilla WoW. You could actually die in it, the questing didn't coddle you as much, it had elite zones and all sorts of other cool mini discoveries, servers had communities and outside of the shitbin class design back then it was a lot of fun after they ironed out the bugs. Instead of building upon a cool world though, they just completely castrated it after BC (I still hate them adding flying in BC, though).

SWTOR is the same type of trappings but I'm not really playing it in the same way so I'm not one to compare. It's quest-based and has hotkey combat but I find most things SWTOR is doing to be for the better, so far, outside of way too much fucking footwork early on.

As a co-op game though, it's a lot of fun. Things I like: Very compact quest design (pick up 2-3 meaningful quests & they evolve on their own naturally), field crafting, companion stuff and dialogue being able to change story/rewards and work in co-op makes for a lot of fun moments. Starships are fun to have too, even if they are just fluff, same with the space combat which is also fluff but it's pretty amusing still and at least controls and feels proper and not like it was built in an alpha build of LittleBigPlanet like some other games vehicle system.

It's nice to be able to be challenged and killed by these big elite quests and meaty flash points, too. I was actually kind of worried after the Black Talon though, but it picked up a lot from there. I mean Black Talon was fun and had cool presentation but even for a 2p specific dungeon it was REALLY easy for us.

Class design is nice too, we're mostly just trying out several things to see what we like and I think the current pair (Sith Assassin and Operative) is doing the best for us. Worst has to be Sith Warrior, so freaking plain and boring. I hear it evolves up later in it's life but early on it is boring as hell.

WoW wasn't the first MMO I'd played but it never seemed much different to me.

WoW streamlined things, pushed questing forward further and allowed you to solo to cap. Not really innovative, just evolved (some good, some bad).

Guild Wars 2 seems like the kind of title that really understands where the genre is and doesn't want to flip it on it's head but has another big set of evolved ideas, though. Hopefully those cater to me, especially all I hear about scaling because lack of scaling and piss-weak content unless you want to schedule your life away to raid with shitheads is what drives me the most nuts in current MMOs.

 

[Varna]

Any gaffers on shadowtown?

 

[Giolon]

The servers aren't dead or life less, its the instancing they did which they said before launch was supposed to only exist on the start planets... it exists on ALL planets. Check the number in the top left corner. That tells you how many people are actually on the planet but they might be in a separate instance, the only way you can communicate with them is general chat (Or merge over to their instance, you can choose the instance you want to be on in the world map). And yes its getting to me too. I know why they did the instancing, but it completely destroys a good part of the MMO 'charm' when they artificially lockout other players from even being seen just for performance reasons. Hopefully as the launch settles they change the limit on how many players can be in an 'instance' we start seeing worlds with lots of people.

Actually, the number in the top left only shows the people in your current instance. The most number of instances I've seen on a planet is 3. They usually split after about 150 people (creating two of 75-ish total, which will then balloon up to about 150 each before splitting again). The amount of world instancing is really over-blown.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Actually, the number in the top left only shows the people in your current instance. The most number of instances I've seen on a planet is 3. They usually split after about 150 people (creating two of 75-ish total, which will then balloon up to about 150 each before splitting again). The amount of world instancing is really over-blown.

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect.

If you click on the number, it brings up a search box with players.

I've seen people show up in this search box (after searching for them when they did an LFG shout to the chat channel), only to have to switch instances once we formed a group.

 

[Ken]

How do you get this Datacron on Taris?

 

[benny_a]

It really didn't, though, since the vast majority of WoW and beyond quests are bullshit bite-sized tasks.

I meant the amount of quest you do, not necessarily the quality.
It's a different kind of grind to what was before. In DAoC you had to kill hundreds of goblins for hours upon hours and in WoW you have to rush through zones while doing every exclamation point in it.

SW:TOR is expanding on the quest system by having all these voice over and stuff. But yeah, just as with every game it's run here, kill him or pick that up.
Not that singleplayer games are any different, except they can change the world more and aren't restricted to the green doors to do the really cool stuff.

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect.

It's correct. Was confirmed in the Giant Bomb interview with the lead writer.
No idea which minute they mention that, but it's in there.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

I don't think you played EQ2 at launch if you think it played the same as WoW.

The two games had vastly different structures and gameplay mechanics at launch. Later, EQ2 rushed to copy WoW as quickly as possible. It's still quite different.



It got to me when I reached Nar Shaddaa, and I just said to myself, "I can't do this anymore." It's only been two days, but I don't think I can go back to that. I may start up an Agent, though, since I hear the story is so good.

That's what happened to me. Started off as Sith Inquisitor, switched to Agent at around level 21 after hearing the story was so good. So far, it's been better than the Inquisitor, and I'm much more into it. Doesn't help when the quests are essentially the same with different elements. Know what I mean? Maybe once I get past Balmorra for the second time it will get better. It could just be having to do the same damn quests again.

 

[Giolon]

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect.

If you click on the number, it brings up a search box with players.

I've seen people show up in this search box (after searching for them when they did an LFG shout to the chat channel), only to have to switch instances once we formed a group.

It's not - multiple people have tested it. Go to a planet with multiple instances. Sometimes you'll end up in an an instance with only 30-40 players. Yet /who on the planet and you'll see there's over 100 there, and you're just in a less populated instance.

Or a good example is a time I was on Nar Shaddaa - it 75 in the upper left corner. A simple who showed there were over 100, and /who'ing by class totaled it up to about 150.

 

[TheYanger]

Personally I don't find any more similar to WoW than I do to pretty much any MMO. They're all basically the same. FWIW I hated WoW and I tried on 3 different occasions to get into it since I had friends playing but I never got a character to max. Boring. Meanwhile I'm totally addicted to TOR. YMMV.

I don't think you've played many MMOs, there are plenty that are vastly different from wow. This is a carbon copy. I'd go as far as to say 95% the same, If you put cutscenes on wow quests instead of a text box, it would be the same game. I'd challenge anyone to point out anything but the most obscure differences otherwise. But, that's not a bad thing. Wow is a great game and always has been, so shrug.

whoever said WoW didn't bring this whole 'quest' thing to where it is now...I also challenge you to look back at the MMOs prior to WoW's release, and then to the ones after. It's night and day. EQ2 had similar quest structure but it also came out at the same time and wow had been being tested for years, so it's not that surprising.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I meant the amount of quest you do, not necessarily the quality.
It's a different kind of grind to what was before. In DAoC you had to kill hundreds of goblins for hours upon hours and in WoW you have to rush through zones while doing every exclamation point in it.

It's very subjective, but damn if I didn't prefer killing hundreds of goblins while shooting the shit with some other players. I vastly prefer a grind where I can get to know people, have unexpected things happen, enjoy group gameplay, and maybe even get some nice rare drops.

It's correct. Was confirmed in the Giant Bomb interview with the lead writer.
No idea which minute they mention that, but it's in there.

Then why doesn't it work that way in practice?

To clarify, I was on Balmorra, saw a guy shouting LFG for a group quest, clicked on the top-left number, found his or her name on the list, then formed a group with the player and had to switch instances. So, same chat channel, shows up in the search box, but different instance.

edit: nevermind, Giolon clarified it for me. That's an odd system.

 

[bounchfx]

I'm not sure I can do this anymore. Level 12 Vanguard/trooper.. and I'm just bored by these quests. There's FAR too much running/travel time, and even though I have friends around my level it's difficult to play with them since we're always on completely different quests. It doesn't help that the world feels empty so far (I'm on coruscant.. I remember reading that after your first level you are free to travel anywhere but apparently that's not the case.. yet?)

didn't really enjoy pvp yet, though I haven't tried huttball.

I don't know, I'm conflicted. I want to see more of the game, but playing it bores me to death. I like shooting things, but I don't like not playing with anyone, and I don't like sitting through 1-5 minutes of quest talking for every single thing

edit:

It's very subjective, but damn if I didn't prefer killing hundreds of goblins while shooting the shit with some other players. I vastly prefer a grind where I can get to know people, have unexpected things happen, enjoy group gameplay, and maybe even get some nice rare drops.

gonna piggy back on this a little.. I really miss this type of MMO gameplay. It doesn't have to be grinding but I really liked being able to play with people and get to know them, forming friends/alliances within a world... it just doesn't feel like this game can give me that experience I guess. The way quests are set up in this game pretty much dismisses this immediately. I'm starting to think I'd prefer an MMO that doesn't even have quests, but just lets you be with shit to do (that everyone in your party can do..) and places to explore with things to kill, sometimes with cool loot.

I don't even know if I know anymore. I'm still riding on EQ nostalgia. Even early wow nostalgia! haha

 

[benny_a]

It's very subjective, but damn if I didn't prefer killing hundreds of goblins while shooting the shit with some other players. I vastly prefer a grind where I can get to know people, have unexpected things happen, enjoy group gameplay, and maybe even get some nice rare drops.

The last MMO I was really hooked on was Dark Age of Camelot and there it worked like this.

I also played City of Heroes for a bit and that's also mostly doing the same missions over and over again with a group, so there you had the same thing with grouping with people.

I've had cases in this game where someone sees me fighting a mob he also wants, invites me, the monster is dead and he leaves without saying a word. That's quite a different beast to what MMOs used to be.

I don't know, I'm conflicted. I want to see more of the game, but playing it bores me to death. I like shooting things, but I don't like not playing with anyone, and I don't like sitting through 1-5 minutes of quest talking for every single thing

There is quest sharing which should work for most stuff if you're in the same level range. And if you really dislike the cinematics just hit space space 1 space space 1 space space 1. Or if you're contrarian to your character you hit 3 instead of 1. ;-) And on your way.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The last MMO I was really hooked on was Dark Age of Camelot and there it worked like this.

I also played City of Heroes for a bit and that's also mostly doing the same missions over and over again with a group, so there you had the same thing with grouping with people.

I've had cases in this game where someone sees me fighting a mob he also wants, invites me, the monster is dead and he leaves without saying a word. That's quite a different beast to what MMOs used to be.

This is how it's been since WoW launched, really. Sometimes you'll run into like-minded people who will want to continue a group and keep doing stuff with other people, but the vast majority of groups only last for the duration of the task at hand.

 

[Alex]

It's a different kind of grind to what was before. In DAoC you had to kill hundreds of goblins for hours upon hours and in WoW you have to rush through zones while doing every exclamation point in it.

That's my favorite thing in SWTOR so far that I never see mentioned. The quests are more compact. You don't ride into a zone and pick up 15 quests, you get a couple of more meaningful ones (even the filler) and when you're out in the field if they want more done related to it it just pops a droid out to feed information to your character.

But again, this games main issue to me is the walking, it grates after awhile, so if they did have it any other way it'd drive you crazy :lol

I kind of miss old school grinding, a bit though, grinding gets a bad rap when it can be put to good uses.

Especially when these games, when done well like WoW and SWTOR, have such good combat systems that don't get stretched as much as they should outside of elite areas or flash points or in WoW's case nowadays, nothing until raiding since everyone is so outlandishly powerful =/

If I was forced into making a traditional MMO nowadays, I'd have at least two leveling progression types. Standard and Heroic, one line soloable and one line that is group based and scales on your party member count (upping reward quality chance with each member added).

 

[Lord Phol]

Anyone know if colors crystals can produce different variations of density/looks of the lightsaber? One of the reasons I prefer blue and Red is because the way they look not because of the actual colors.
In game the green one looks more "fluffy" it's hard to explain, the glow makes it look like it's wider than red for example. If you could have a green lightsaber like the one the jedi has in the loading/start-up screen that would be awesome.

 

[bounchfx]

There is quest sharing which should work for most stuff if you're in the same level range. And if you really dislike the cinematics just hit space space 1 space space 1 space space 1. Or if you're contrarian to your character you hit 3 instead of 1. ;-) And on your way.

I'll give the quest sharing stuff a try (but I know it won't work for class stuff), but I already do the spacebar spamming during convos

 

[Jtrizzy]

How difficult is it for someone with no experience in this type of game to jump in? I barely play RPG's let alone MMO's. I've been a big Star Wars fan for quite some time, and a new high end PC I want to take advantage of.

 

[hamchan]

I like how there's not much downtime in SWTOR. The planets are small enough that taxi services are super fast. The death penalty is super minimal. There is no travel time at all when choosing planets on the galaxy map. There's a lot of walking, but that's to be expected I suppose.

 

[TheYanger]

I'm not sure I can do this anymore. Level 12 Vanguard/trooper.. and I'm just bored by these quests. There's FAR too much running/travel time, and even though I have friends around my level it's difficult to play with them since we're always on completely different quests. It doesn't help that the world feels empty so far (I'm on coruscant.. I remember reading that after your first level you are free to travel anywhere but apparently that's not the case.. yet?)

didn't really enjoy pvp yet, though I haven't tried huttball.

I don't know, I'm conflicted. I want to see more of the game, but playing it bores me to death. I like shooting things, but I don't like not playing with anyone, and I don't like sitting through 1-5 minutes of quest talking for every single thing

edit:





gonna piggy back on this a little.. I really miss this type of MMO gameplay. It doesn't have to be grinding but I really liked being able to play with people and get to know them, forming friends/alliances within a world... it just doesn't feel like this game can give me that experience I guess. The way quests are set up in this game pretty much dismisses this immediately. I'm starting to think I'd prefer an MMO that doesn't even have quests, but just lets you be with shit to do (that everyone in your party can do..) and places to explore with things to kill, sometimes with cool loot.

I don't even know if I know anymore. I'm still riding on EQ nostalgia. Even early wow nostalgia! haha

Why are you on different quests? All of the quests are exactly the same except for story quests, and you can help each other with those. You should try to equalize and then play together, this game is AWESOME for multiplayer questing.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Just picked up my copy today after being out of town. I guess I'll see most of you on Keller's Void sometime soon. Install will still probably take awhile, even with discs, but I'd rather that than download, which would take probably at least 6 hours with the current internet I have access to.

Hopefully it runs okay.

 

[Oni Link 666]

Just got to 40 and bought a ton of mounts. I got every mount I could use. I also got the level 40 PVP set. It's white Mandalorian armor. I think it's pretty badass. Also, check out the trenchcoat I found for Mako. She looks like a Matrix character.

 

[Jrmint]

Just did Hammer Station, holy crap that was fun.

 

[Lord Phol]

Just got to 40 and bought a ton of mounts. I got every mount I could use. I also got the level 40 PVP set. It's white Mandalorian armor. I think it's pretty badass. Also, check out the trenchcoat I found for Mako. She looks like a Matrix character.

That's some sweet ass armor, really makes me want to roll BH.
Oh and those Tauntauns, I would do anything to be able to have one as a mount.

 

[Wallach]

How do you get this Datacron on Taris?

Assuming you are asking because you aren't using guides and just want a hint - you need to drop onto that location from above. It's a bit of a walk to be able to do so.

 

[Anno]

So what is everyone taking as a crafting crew skill? Biochem looks nice for the epic re-usable stims/medpacks, but I also wouldn't mind being able to craft my own gear.

It's very subjective, but damn if I didn't prefer killing hundreds of goblins while shooting the shit with some other players. I vastly prefer a grind where I can get to know people, have unexpected things happen, enjoy group gameplay, and maybe even get some nice rare drops.

Also going to hop on this train. Maybe two months of every year I go back to EQ1 almost entirely because I don't have to complete meaningless quests. Sitting in the corner of a zone pulling monster after monster and bullshitting sounds super boring, but man does it tend to make for a more compelling community. Between quests and having to mash a million buttons there's very little time for just hanging out in modern MMOs.

 

[StudioTan]

I don't think you've played many MMOs, there are plenty that are vastly different from wow. This is a carbon copy. I'd go as far as to say 95% the same, If you put cutscenes on wow quests instead of a text box, it would be the same game. I'd challenge anyone to point out anything but the most obscure differences otherwise. But, that's not a bad thing. Wow is a great game and always has been, so shrug.

whoever said WoW didn't bring this whole 'quest' thing to where it is now...I also challenge you to look back at the MMOs prior to WoW's release, and then to the ones after. It's night and day. EQ2 had similar quest structure but it also came out at the same time and wow had been being tested for years, so it's not that surprising.

I've played at least a dozen for a significant length of time (at least a couple of months, some for years), some before WoW released and many after. The basic mechanics are all the same (unless it's something like Eve), the differences are in the details. For example even though Guild Wars has an interesting combat system in terms of having to choose which skills you use, the basic mechanics of playing are the same. Target mod, activate skills from a bar, repeat until dead.

MMOs are all similar in the same way that shooters are all similar, but no one claims that CoD is a copy of Halo....or Doom. Buf if you've played one shooter for any length of time I can pretty much assure you that you can figure out any other shooter in a matter of minutes. They're not all copies of each other but it's a genre for a reason, they're all similar, and innovation in any genre usually comes in small steps, not giant leaps.

What WoW DID do was make the genre more widely appealing by removing the grind and making it almost entirely quest based, but does that mean questing didn't exist before? When I first played WoW I didn't go "oh man, I don't know what I'm doing, this is all so new and fresh and completely unlike anything I've played before!". It actually felt like it just simplified stuff I was already doing in previous MMOs, and as I said it was a big diverse world and very polished. So when someone asks is TOR a copy of WoW I say "No". It may share many of the same elements as WoW just like it does with dozens of other MMOs but it also offers a lot of new elements.

 

[frequency]

Also going to hop on this train. Maybe two months of every year I go back to EQ1 almost entirely because I don't have to complete meaningless quests. Sitting in the corner of a zone pulling monster after monster and bullshitting sounds super boring, but man does it tend to make for a more compelling community. Between quests and having to mash a million buttons there's very little time for just hanging out in modern MMOs.

My favourite MMO memories are just sitting in a corner and healing while chatting about random stuff.
My biggest complaint about SWTOR (and I guess all modern MMOs) is that I have to constantly press buttons. It's basically a choice between talking or fighting. Which is dumb.
But I'm way more into the social aspects of MMOs than the actual game play so...


Also, I'm starting to become annoyed at other things with this game. I keep running into bugs. Just now I'm sitting in this room waiting for this control panel to respawn or something because it bugged. I broke it and the shield to this room came down for a fraction of a second and then back up. Now it's just there and I can't talk to the quest NPC inside and this stupid panel won't come back so I can break it again. Ugh...

And goddamnit Corso and his grapple. I have to keep turning this thing off. I'm so not happy right now.

EDIT: This room is instanced. Does that mean the panel will never respawn until I leave? And then I'll have to fight through all these guys again? I've been waiting for like 10 minutes.

 

[Jtrizzy]

Just picked this up even though I've never played an MMO...This should be interesting.

 

[Ferny]

Damn Oni that armor is so sick

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Just picked this up even though I've never played an MMO...This should be interesting.

Don't worry if you play with GAF. Having friendly and helpful people around makes multiplayer games much easier to ease into.

 

[JWong]

Woot, got to 50 and have my Light Side V speeder.

 

[Jtrizzy]

Don't worry if you play with GAF. Having friendly and helpful people around makes multiplayer games much easier to ease into.

I need a mic though right? Wonder if my ps3 eye would work?

 

[StudioTan]

My favourite MMO memories are just sitting in a corner and healing while chatting about random stuff.
My biggest complaint about SWTOR (and I guess all modern MMOs) is that I have to constantly press buttons. It's basically a choice between talking or fighting. Which is dumb.
But I'm way more into the social aspects of MMOs than the actual game play so...

Yeah, I totally agree. SWG is still my favorite MMO of all time (pre-CU). The fact that they had entire classes devoted to just social gameplay is something no other MMOs has done. I used to spend hours as a Musician just playing in the cantina and talking to people as they came in and got buffed. My girlfriend still talks about how much she loved playing as an image designer. That's all she did, sit in a tent a make over other players and she loved it. That along with the fantastic crafting is still something I'm hoping to find in an MMO again someday.

I still love TOR though and it has huge potential.

 

[Anno]

I need a mic though right? Wonder if my ps3 eye would work?

Eh...certainly not for awhile. Voice chat in MMOs isn't required until you're doing some crazy high level stuff. For almost everything else I'd say you're better off not subjecting yourself to that nonsense. Unless that's something you really enjoy, of course.

 

[StudioTan]

Woot, got to 50 and have my Light Side V speeder.

Congrats!

 

[Alex]

If you put cutscenes on wow quests instead of a text box, it would be the same game. I'd challenge anyone to point out anything but the most obscure differences otherwise. But, that's not a bad thing. Wow is a great game and always has been, so shrug.

If they were cutscenes it'd be pretty lame. That they're interactive, work in a group splendidly and can change the narrative and reward is the boon. Helps that the dialogue and writing is generally pretty good to great, even on a lot of the filler whereas WoW's recent writing is.... just horrific when it isn't trying to go for the comedy route.

It's the same format entirely, though. Quests n' hotkeys traditional style, and I agree that it's nonsense to say otherwise, but a lot of those differences and obscurities do pile up to make it a pretty different game for us compared to WoW. Especially as a co-op questing experience game flow has been in fairly stark contrast.

Also, to me, WoW was a great game. I loved it in the past, but I dislike the direction they took it, how certain things have totally rotted and the generally uninspired content lately. All the fun I had from trying out 4.3 after a big break came from Transmog. I figured maybe I'd try Pandaria because the Cata launch def had it's moments but I want a Monk and 1-85 is just going to be a tumor on Pandaria, so I'll probably pass, especially if Guild Wars 2 is near that.

Anyhow, SWTOR's got me interested in the genre again though, despite railing on it during it's development. So I'm happy I have another MMO I like again and even if its nothing long term. Looking forward to a few future ones as well, so unless something sandboxy comes out in the future I think I'll be doing a lot of hit and run between games and their expansions.

 

[frequency]

Yeah, I totally agree. SWG is still my favorite MMO of all time (pre-CU). The fact that they had entire classes devoted to just social gameplay is something no other MMOs has done. I used to spend hours as a Musician just playing in the cantina and talking to people as they came in and got buffed. My girlfriend still talks about how much she loved playing as an image designer. That's all she did, sit in a tent a make over other players and she loved it. That along with the fantastic crafting is still something I'm hoping to find in an MMO again someday.

I still love TOR though and it has huge potential.

I'm enjoying TOR too... despite these frustrating bugs. But I like it for other reasons. I'm enjoying the story aspect of it. I like that my character has a personality and all that.


And in case anyone else runs into the problem I did... you have to reset the phase by right clicking on your portrait. It's really dumb I have to fight all these people again, but the phase seems to have a long reset timer or something. Stupid bugs.

 

[Alex]

I guess I made a double post! Apologies.

 

[Jtrizzy]

Eh...certainly not for awhile. Voice chat in MMOs isn't required until you're doing some crazy high level stuff. For almost everything else I'd say you're better off not subjecting yourself to that nonsense. Unless that's something you really enjoy, of course.

Well I've have good experiences for the most part with PS3 gaf, but I'm fine with no voice chat for sure. How many patches are there? Right now I'm on English video 1.

 

[water_wendi]

If you put cutscenes on wow quests instead of a text box, it would be the same game.

No way in hell.

 

[TheYanger]

No way in hell.

You've presented an interesting and well founded argument. I've seen the error of my ways.
Sorry but you're completely blind if you don't see just how much tor has bitten off of wow in almost every single way.

Let's not turn this into any MMO forum/official forums/etc, and assume that's an insult to the game. SORRY IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE WOW. The game is the same though.

 

[Anno]

No way in hell.

Yeah, I kind of disagree. Maybe not as much from a gameplay standpoint, as they are rather similar there, but more from viewing it as a world versus as a game. WoW was an amazing world when it launched and slowly rotted into a game. People give EVE shit for being "spreadsheets in space", but I think WoW is the game with the seams most exposed. I'm hoping that TOR's already established lore helps prevent it from slowly breaking down like WoW did, but with all of the people bitching about no macros/mods/dual-specs/AC-switching I'm more than a little worried.

 

[Lord Phol]

Im getting my ass handed to me as a Marauder doing my story quests. I'm on a certain orbital station and even though the mobs are only lvl24 and I am 28 i've died twice. My equpiment is pretty good as well, even made som nice mods with artificing :s.

 

[water_wendi]

You've presented an interesting and well founded argument. I've seen the error of my ways.
Sorry but you're completely blind if you don't see just how much tor has bitten off of wow in almost every single way.

Let's not turn this into any MMO forum/official forums/etc, and assume that's an insult to the game. SORRY IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE WOW. The game is the same though.

Its not a cutscene, its interactive dialogue. There isnt much to refute. What you said is just wrong.

 

[hamchan]

I think WoW's world and combat system are still better than SWTOR's. Honestly, if this game didn't have the Bioware conversation system and story hooks I probably wouldn't be playing it.

 

[StudioTan]

You've presented an interesting and well founded argument. I've seen the error of my ways.
Sorry but you're completely blind if you don't see just how much tor has bitten off of wow in almost every single way.

Let's not turn this into any MMO forum/official forums/etc, and assume that's an insult to the game. SORRY IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE WOW. The game is the same though.

Perhaps you can explain how they are the same?

If they were cutscenes it'd be pretty lame. That they're interactive, work in a group splendidly and can change the narrative and reward is the boon. Helps that the dialogue and writing is generally pretty good to great, even on a lot of the filler whereas WoW's recent writing is.... just horrific when it isn't trying to go for the comedy route.

It's the same format entirely, though. Quests n' hotkeys traditional style, and I agree that it's nonsense to say otherwise, but a lot of those differences and obscurities do pile up to make it a pretty different game for us compared to WoW. Especially as a co-op questing experience game flow has been in fairly stark contrast.

This guy gets what I'm trying to say. What makes TOR standout is it's presentation of standard MMO concepts. It's the same thing WoW did when it came out.

Here is a review I found from 2005: http://www.firingsquad.com/games/world_of_warcraft_review/

Every great once in a while, there’s a game that doesn’t do anything new or incredibly inventive but manages to do everything right. World of Warcraft is this game. Thanks to the fine people at Blizzard and my friend/editor Jakub, I haven’t lost this much sleep in quite some time.

Blizzard has pulled off a rather perfect coup by taking the formula that has made games like EverQuest and Anarchy Online so popular and refining it down to it’s most simple form. The down time is minimal and the action is often quite furious. What it all comes down to is that this game is, for lack of a better word, fun.

This is exactly what I remember the general consensus was at the time. WoW didn't invent a lot of these standard MMO tropes, it just presented them really well.

 

[TheYanger]

Perhaps you can explain how they are the same?



This guy gets what I'm trying to say. What makes TOR standout is it's presentation of standard MMO concepts. It's the same thing WoW did when it came out.

Here is a review I found from 2005: http://www.firingsquad.com/games/world_of_warcraft_review/



This is exactly what I remember the general consensus was at the time. WoW didn't invent a lot of these standard MMO tropes, it just presented them really well.

WoW has invented a huge amount of the current tropes, wow of 2005 was more similar to previous games than it is now, tor is similar to wow of 2010, not wow of 2005.

Where to start.... How are they similar.

Combat mechanics: The mechanics of ToR and most hotkey MMOs are all pretty much the same. WoW was pretty different from most games before it (DAoC was kind of similar, but EQ and UO and the like were not at all). The fast paced nature of Combat is COMLPETELY wow.

You've got the resource systems that are extremely similar to wow classes (Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior are basically a runic power type system, Consular/Inquis are a hybrid energy/mana, and then the 'energy' and ammo based classes are actually fairly original with their tiered regen though it's still basically energy from a wow rogue).

The actual types of abilities are extremely similar to wow, and yes there are all kinds of abilities that existed in games prior to wow that aren't anything like them. Same generic kinds of 'does damage' 'does damage +1 with a longer cooldown' 'PvP trinket ability' 'AE knockback' stuff. I guess the best way to describe this point, is you can take almost any ability from ToR and replace the name with a wow ability and someone knows exactly what you mean, and it's accurate.

The quests are the same 'kill X' 'loot X' 'click on X' we've seen forever. Quests had more variety to them in vanilla wow even than ToR quests do, but it's ok because the quests have the cutscenes. Saying it's a 'dialogue' and not a cutscene is bullshit, it's the same thing. I think it's the best part of Tor and IS a big innovation to the genre (The ONLY innovation in ToR) it adds a lot, but the quests themselves are the same hum drum shit, and the VAST majority are just as pointless with meaningless stories. Aside from your class quests, you have 0 impact on the world and your 'dialogue' means NOTHING besides giving you + or - with your companion, or + or - dark side (Which is a completely flavor thing in the first place). Telling an NPC they're dumb, and having them get indignant for one line, then going back and saying "So anyway, go kill some Wampas for me" is not a dialogue, it's a sham. These non-class quests NEED to improve in an expansion if they don't want me to skim them just like wow.

So beyond the core combat mechanics and the Quest system, you get to the REALLY similar stuff, that is ripped off wholesale: the 'repeatable' content of the game which is where you will spend all of your time once you max out.

Warzones....I don't feel like people will even have a lot to say about these. Civil War is AB, Huttball is a sort of modified CTF almost like if you took EotS and took out the bases (and is the best warzone BECAUSE it's actually 'gamey' in its map style which is not something wow would do easily due to setting), and then Void Star is attack/defend with an extremely similar setup to SotA. Expertise is like resilience, valor equates to honor, etc.

Daily quests: These are just like the zillions of dailies in wow, except even worse cause most of them aren't soloable out on the planets. Awful, nobody wants to do this. The rest are dailies for warzones and Heroic Flashpoints. These give badges for dailies, much akin to the wow badge system from BC and Wrath. It's an awful grind.

The heroic flashpoint system itself is straight from WoW. Not much to say about it, they made this stuff in BC and now ToR has it too. It's not a great idea or a bad idea but it's a grindy one so I'd prefer something innovative instead of imitated.

Raids! There are 2 sizes (8 man and 16 man, 2 groups or 4 groups. gee), multiple difficulty settings, (3, just like wow, and given how easy the normal modes are in this it deosn't seem that different from LFR). You get raiding badges to buy raiding badge gear from the gear vendors in the fleet, with your 5 piece tier set and a 2 and 4 piece bonus. Resets once a week on tuesdays.

Some of this stuff may sound like 'small' things, but that's the POINT. It's hard for an MMO to be BROADLY different from one another, without being a completely different system (like a UO type open world game for instance), but even the minutae is EXACTLY the same as wow. If you just put a wall of text for every quest, except the class quests since they're the only truly different ones, there would be no question.

Get over it, it's the same game. You don't like wow anymore people, we get it. That doesn't mean you need to be personally offended by having it pointed out that your new girlfriend is just your old girlfriend with a wig on.

 

[Juice]

I was just trying to figure out what made sense as my first crew skills and found this. Handy!

As a jedi shadow i think i might do ... hmm...

I don't know.