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Star Wars: The Old Republic |OT| EA: "Let's blow this thing and go home!"

Sigfodr

Member
I'm really surprised he didn't get that role unless he turned it down and went for the Consular. Even though it would be Nathan Drake in space it would be a lot better than his work as the Consular.

I didn't care for either of Smuggler voices either, but I love Smuggler otherwise. The male sounded too much like a cowboy or a redneck (from what I heard) and the female is forced. I wish North had done it. Or if Seth Green could have done his Joker voice for the male.
 
What you can't explain is simple. You are probably over-looking it.

This isn't just a single player game with "mass co-op". In fact, in terms of systems go, SWTOR is almost as full featured as World of Warcraft, a game 7 years (+3 to 4 in development) in the making.

Whats missing from SWTOR are social features and a sense of community. There is no reason to communicate with anyone for almost anything if you are in a guild. There are no server forums. There is little community interaction outside of the game itself. The best thing we have is Darth Hater, which is an EXTREMELY shitty version of mmo-champion. There is nobody doing any type of real theory crafting. There is little world PVP happening, there is no reason to have allies and enemies.

World of Warcraft established itself back in Vanilla. This is where the foundation for the community was created. In Vanilla, there was tons of community interaction. Although you could not directly communicate in game. World PVP and eventually BG PVP would spark discussion on the server forums. This would cause rivalries, competition and trading among players in the game.

Having to make friends on your server so you could get to know someone with a UBRS key. Putting together PUG raid groups of 20 people to do UBRS. Guilds joining together to try and tackle Molten Core in blue gear.

There was simply more of a reason to talk to each other. To get to know the best/worst/coolest guilds on the server. To have competition, and most importantly have fun.

This basic beginning is what spawned other community sites, and helped expand the game to what it is today.

SWTOR has forgotten all of this. They have made it hard to communicate with people on your own server. They instanced planets and made the world feel completely empty. They made World PVP almost impossible outside of Ilum based on how the planets are setup. They provided no incentives at all to communicate with, and build a sense of community.

I love SWTOR. But any MMO that completely neglects community interaction is doomed to fail.

You are not the only one who feels this way. Almost everyone in my guild feels the same. People on the forums feel this way also, and obviously people on GAF do as well.

I disagree with most but not all of your points here.

SWTOR is lacking in some modern features, but a lot of those missing features are either fairly easy to add or not all they are cracked up to be (dungeon finders for example can be hotly debated). Personally I don't want a lot of these "features" people clamor for. I won't go into this debate in a reply since it's obviously a huge topic and one heavily influenced by everyones own opinions.

Forums are useless for communication, have you actually read them lately? It's mostly trolls. I do agree with you on the lack of useful "fansites" and other web coverage, however that's something that develops over time. WoW sites are fairly well-established, TOR has only been out for a couple weeks and has 1/10th the subscriber base.

I can't speak on world PVP but I can't disagree there either. I thought it was pretty clear that this game would have the same level of "world pvp" as WoW, which is to say none. World PVP is one of those things everyone says they want, but when it's delivered they hate it because there is nothing that can really be done to stop asshats from ruining it for everyone else. It's also a playstyle choice. I like to level my character and not spend 5 hours being chased by level 50's with nothing better to do than ruin my playtime. I'd say this game actually does better than WoW at giving an enemy to fight at least lore-wise. Half the time in WoW you could swear the Horde and Alliance are working together. At least in TOR I feel like there is a real reason to want to destroy all rebel scum on sight.

You point on communication is kind of confusing. You say the early days of WoW forced you to make friends and communicate with other players in order to access content, etc. as if that was a good thing (I actually kind of agree on that). However you say they forgot all about this in TOR. Yet it looks like TOR has almost the same exact features as vanilla WoW had.

If anything I think it ecourages grouping and therefore communication MORE than even WoW did in it's early days. If it wasn't for the Heroic quests I probably wouldn't have grouped with anyone at all yet aside from flashpoints which while leveling, I only run 1-2 times per 10 levels or so. With the heroics I group every single time I am on.

Instancing planets is awesome. I've been able to level without having to fight over respawning resources or have my computer lag out when going into the Imperial Fleet (remember how bad Dalaran used to be? I would disconnect if I went there because of the lag). All instances share the same chat (so it has no effect on communication) and its easy as pie to change instances.

No game is perfect and most of what we are discussing in based on opinion.
 

Ken

Member
I'm confused about orange gear. If I have one piece of orange gear heavy armor at 250 armor, and another orange gear heavy armor with 200 armor, is there a way to get it to the same armor value as the first one? I picked up a nice looking chestpiece but it has worse armor rating than the one I'm currently wearing.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
I'm confused about orange gear. If I have one piece of orange gear heavy armor at 250 armor, and another orange gear heavy armor with 200 armor, is there a way to get it to the same armor value as the first one?

Take the mods and put it on the one you want.
 

Blackface

Banned
I disagree with most but not all of your points here.

SWTOR is lacking in some modern features, but a lot of those missing features are either fairly easy to add or not all they are cracked up to be (dungeon finders for example can be hotly debated). Personally I don't want a lot of these "features" people clamor for. I won't go into this debate in a reply since it's obviously a huge topic and one heavily influenced by everyones own opinions.

Forums are useless for communication, have you actually read them lately? It's mostly trolls. I do agree with you on the lack of useful "fansites" and other web coverage, however that's something that develops over time. WoW sites are fairly well-established, TOR has only been out for a couple weeks and has 1/10th the subscriber base.

I can't speak on world PVP but I can't disagree there either. I thought it was pretty clear that this game would have the same level of "world pvp" as WoW, which is to say none. World PVP is one of those things everyone says they want, but when it's delivered they hate it because there is nothing that can really be done to stop asshats from ruining it for everyone else. It's also a playstyle choice. I like to level my character and not spend 5 hours being chased by level 50's with nothing better to do than ruin my playtime. I'd say this game actually does better than WoW at giving an enemy to fight at least lore-wise. Half the time in WoW you could swear the Horde and Alliance are working together. At least in TOR I feel like there is a real reason to want to destroy all rebel scum on sight.

You point on communication is kind of confusing. You say the early days of WoW forced you to make friends and communicate with other players in order to access content, etc. as if that was a good thing (I actually kind of agree on that). However you say they forgot all about this in TOR. Yet it looks like TOR has almost the same exact features as vanilla WoW had.

If anything I think it ecourages grouping and therefore communication MORE than even WoW did in it's early days. If it wasn't for the Heroic quests I probably wouldn't have grouped with anyone at all yet aside from flashpoints which while leveling, I only run 1-2 times per 10 levels or so. With the heroics I group every single time I am on.

Instancing planets is awesome. I've been able to level without having to fight over respawning resources or have my computer lag out when going into the Imperial Fleet (remember how bad Dalaran used to be? I would disconnect if I went there because of the lag). All instances share the same chat (so it has no effect on communication) and its easy as pie to change instances.

No game is perfect and most of what we are discussing in based on opinion.

I will break it down to read easily. I am not numbering this to be pretentious.

1. Vanilla WoW had more World PVP then any MMO I have ever played including DAOC. It constantly happened, in various areas, and would sometimes go on for 10 hours at a time. There was no point to it other then having fun. Blizzard unintentional designed a few areas to be absolutely perfect for World PVP. It funneled players of both factions into a small area and caused huge amounts of fun. I am not saying this is the end all be all, or that it can be re-created, but it fostered a STRONG community.

Bioware has stated, for a LONG time. And considering I am the one who made the original SWTOR thread and kept it alive for 3 years (and didn't get a thank you in the op :*( ), that they designed SWTOR around World PVP. They create Ilum exclusively for World PVP, and added areas into Tatoonie for World PVP. Unfortunately, they hired the Warhammer developers, who are fairly clueless. So, there is no world PVP outside of Ilum. In Ilum, it is currently being HEAVILY exploited, by trading capture points purposely with the opposing faction. This is how so many people are already in full Champion gear.

With all that out of the way. To sum it up, SWTOR understood World PVP fostered a stronger community. They simply failed to implement it in a spectacular way.

On your personal note, you don't have to participate in World PVP. Roll on a PVE server if you don't like it. That is the point of a PVP and PVE server. PVP means you fight out in the open world, PVE means you do not unless you are in a designated zone.

2. Instanced planets are not awesome. It makes the game world feel completely and utterly empty. I play on The Swiftsure. One of the most populated servers in the entire game. I have seen maybe 4 people of the opposing faction while leveling. I have seen maybe, a total of 20 people outside of hubs of my own faction.

Bioware openly stated that fighting over mobs wouldn't be a problem in SWTOR. They said if you hit a mob, you would get credit for your quest, even if someone else tagged it. They didn't implement this, and instead instanced the worlds for various reasons.

This has caused many people to play this game like a single player game. The post I was responding to is complaining it feels like a single player game. This is a big reason why.

Bioware also stated planets would NOT be instanced for months in beta. For a long time in interviews. Then before the big open beta's hit, started instancing them. The planets where created so massive, with so much space, to harbor tons of players. Now you have massive planets meant for huge amounts of people, being instanced down to barely any. It makes the world feel vacant and empty.

3. When I spoke about UBRS keys, and being able to only access content via others in game. I was just using it as an example. There are many things you can do to foster a community. This happened to be one that worked well. The point was to show how SOCIAL INTERACTION, helped make the game feel alive.

Bioware has removed almost all social interaction. You can do almost anything with a companion. What you can't do with a companion, you can do with someone from your guild.

A guild, that will have trouble recruiting. Since there is no server recruitment forum. You get banned or can be reported for recruiting in general chat. And the only forum you can recruit people from, is a global forum where your post is 10 pages back in 5 minutes. So the posts for guild recruitment turn into circle jerk sessions for current members to talk about how cool their guild is. Without actually getting any recruitment done.

4. Server forums don't always turn into shit holes. They are a place people can talk. A place people can shit talk. A place people can be competitive. If someone does not wish to participate, they don't have to visit them. But those that want to maybe start a rivalry, get to know others on the server, show people their PVP videos, live stream or what not, can do it there. This is huge.

----

All the things you seem to want, are all the things the person above you doesn't. It can't feel like an MMO if you don't want to socially interact with people. the problem with SWTOR is there is not only no reason to build a community, but you and your guild will come out on top by ignoring everyone else.

SWTOR has virtually no social features. I was in beta for 8 months, and beta was 10 times more social. It had a galactic wide chat system, the GTN actually worked correctly, the beta forum had a section that worked like a server forum. This made people talk, interact, help and organize events.

The reason SWTOR feels like a single player game. Isn't because it lacks MMO features. It's because the developers are either completely clueless, or some how forgot that the social aspect of an MMO means something to people. There is no way, after personally playing through the game, that they can be happy or not notice any of this. I am sure they will fix these problems in the next couple .X patches.

The social aspect of an MMO is as important as the mechanics of it. If either of these two things are missing, or simply don't work, the game won't last. If it does last, it won't grow.
 

frequency

Member
Nice post. I agree with many of the things said here.
And I think if these things aren't somehow corrected, there won't be enough outside of the "single player experience" to keep people subscribed to this game for very long.


On another note, I continued a bit more with my Sith Inquisitor. I stopped liking it when I hit Dromund Kaas quests. I can't be the "Good Sith" anymore. All the quests and all the dialogue options make me sound like an evil jerk. Just a different type of evil.
The aesthetics for the Empire are so much more interesting to me. I really like the look of Dromund Kaas. It's infinitely better than Coruscant. I just don't want to be a mean jerk to everyone :(

Oh well. I guess my decision is back down to 2 classes at least.
 
In Ilum, it is currently being HEAVILY exploited, by trading capture points purposely with the opposing faction. This is how so many people are already in full Champion gear.

Ilum isn't being exploited per se, the design of it is just pants-on-head retarded. It actively encourages you to collaborate with the enemy faction because if you don't give it up for them to cap, you can't retake them to do the daily and vice versa. That means if you own the nodes the single best action is to allow the enemy to take them unhindered, and for them to return the courtesy.

Then again this team draws from the talent that brought us keep-trading in WAR, so... not a surprise.
 

Cystm

Member
Whats missing from SWTOR are social features and a sense of community. There is no reason to communicate with anyone for almost anything if you are in a guild.

You are over exaggerating, just a tad. Having a guild affords you just as much benefit as you find in other MMO's, sans guild levels. Need help with a heroic? Ask a guildie. Have a general question? Ask a guildie. Being ganked? Round up your guild and punish them. Your mileage may vary, but that is hardly the games fault.

There is little community interaction outside of the game itself. The best thing we have is Darth Hater, which is an EXTREMELY shitty version of mmo-champion. There is nobody doing any type of real theory crafting. There is little world PVP happening, there is no reason to have allies and enemies.

Not having an MMO-Champion for the game is rather inconvenient, and I think it is something the game will need to thrive. I mean, look at what that website has done for WoW. I would always check that site before logging in, or just in my spare time. I agree that DarthHater is not an adequate substitute, at least as of now. That said: They are hiring, so if anyone here's got the knack for it, jump on that shit.

There is Theorycrafting going on at :http://sithwarrior.com/forums/

As for the lack of world PvP? On my server it is starting to pick up. I am @ level 40 atm, and so far, I have killed about 10-15 republic(ans?) and by contrast I killed only 4 on Tatooine. End game will be all about PvP on Illum. I imagine you are on a PvE server based on your statements, because my experience is entirely different. Ganking is not as abundant and that truly is a shame. There are hordes of imperials running around questing and getting shit done though on the higher level planets at least(so far only one instance on Hoth, which is very much different from my earlier experience on Nar Shadaa and Dromund Kaas)

World of Warcraft established itself back in Vanilla. This is where the foundation for the community was created. In Vanilla, there was tons of community interaction. Although you could not directly communicate in game. World PVP and eventually BG PVP would spark discussion on the server forums. This would cause rivalries, competition and trading among players in the game.

Having to make friends on your server so you could get to know someone with a UBRS key. Putting together PUG raid groups of 20 people to do UBRS. Guilds joining together to try and tackle Molten Core in blue gear.

There was simply more of a reason to talk to each other. To get to know the best/worst/coolest guilds on the server. To have competition, and most importantly have fun.

This basic beginning is what spawned other community sites, and helped expand the game to what it is today.

SWTOR has forgotten all of this. They have made it hard to communicate with people on your own server. They instanced planets and made the world feel completely empty. They made World PVP almost impossible outside of Ilum based on how the planets are setup. They provided no incentives at all to communicate with, and build a sense of community.

Are we playing the same game? How is any of the bolded not happening in this game? How did they make it hard to communicate with people on the server? Hell man, they allow you to talk to the other faction for fucks sake. WoW never did that (unless you consider "Me luv u" and "U lose" legit communication )

I will agree with you that the instancing of the planets was a horrible decision(As I've mentioned before, many times in this thread.) But that has nothing to do with communication. /general chat is shared across all instances, I haven't tested the other channels but I assume it's the same as /general chat.

I loved the world PvP in Vanilla. Raiding South Shore and Defending Tarren Mill was some of the best times I spent playing that game, and it sucks not having anything close to that spontaneous experience outside of a pre-established zone. But it is not going to be this games doom. This game is fantastic and most importantly has a great deal of potential to knock the competition out of the park. That all depends on how they roll out content patches and so on.

13 days. Hardly time to start crying doom.


Edit: Curses!

You got in another wall of text before I could respond to your previous wall of text with my own wall of text.
 
He sucks in this. Dear god, it's bad for someone that is actually great to fail so hard.

A lot of the non-evil Jedi voicing sounds like shit. They try to be all pious and and understanding and it just ends up making them sound like beep-boop robots or brainwashed aliens.
 

Sullen

Member
Galactic chat? What a fucking nightmare that would be. I already turn off general chat except when I'm interested in finding people for a group quest. I like being able to play this game with my friends and being able to avoid the shit heads. I love the companion system because I can do quests on my own time without having to waste time finding people for every other quest.

There are times the instancing is annoying, but more often then not it is a good thing. I don't want to sit and wait for some quest objective while 15 people in front of me are also trying to do it, I don't want to see 200 morons dancing on each other near the bank/GTN. Dalaran and all the capital cities in WoW were terrible. Why would you want that back? If anything having too many people around breaks any narrative immersion the game might have and certainly fucks up the atmosphere of the game. People complaining that stuff feels empty? Good. I feel like the game has a good balance in that regard right now, though I am playing on the most populated US pvp server.

About the only thing I agree with is the lack of world pvp. I haven't run into enough of it and I'm hoping I will at the higher levels. I just wish they'd get it started a bit earlier in the game, rather than waiting till like level 28-30 basically.
 

Jira

Member
Galactic chat? What a fucking nightmare that would be. I already turn off general chat except when I'm interested in finding people for a group quest. I like being able to play this game with my friends and being able to avoid the shit heads. I love the companion system because I can do quests on my own time without having to waste time finding people for every other quest.

There are times the instancing is annoying, but more often then not it is a good thing. I don't want to sit and wait for some quest objective while 15 people in front of me are also trying to do it, I don't want to see 200 morons dancing on each other near the bank/GTN. Dalaran and all the capital cities in WoW were terrible. Why would you want that back? If anything having too many people around breaks any narrative immersion the game might have and certainly fucks up the atmosphere of the game. People complaining that stuff feels empty? Good. I feel like the game has a good balance in that regard right now, though I am playing on the most populated US pvp server.

About the only thing I agree with is the lack of world pvp. I haven't run into enough of it and I'm hoping I will at the higher levels. I just wish they'd get it started a bit earlier in the game, rather than waiting till like level 28-30 basically.

I just wanted to remind you that you're playing an MMORPG, not a ORPG. To want less people to play with boggles my mind. I fully understand not wanting to wait to do things because I agree, that is a design flaw in all DIKU MMOs, but you gotta have people in the game for you to get anything out of it. Though sadly with how things are designed these days there's no true focus on multiplayer and community. You do your quest/instance and be on your way, you won't see those people again, you won't build a friendship with them to play with them later.
 

LukeSmith

Member
I'm colorblind, so bear with me:

Is this a correct assumption: The orange (?) items can be fully customized based on the mods that are put in them. Those mods are responsible for the stats on the piece, aside from some baseline armor value (that is different based on Heavy/Medium/Light armor). E.g., if I want my Bounty Hunter to look like some odd mashup of a Sith Warrior and a Mandalorian, I could combine pieces and replace all of the mods in them and still have ideal stats?
 

Yaska

Member
Well so far this game is way tooaddictive for me. Hit lvl 46 last night and finished Voss. To corellia!
 

Moaradin

Member
I'm colorblind, so bear with me:

Is this a correct assumption: The orange (?) items can be fully customized based on the mods that are put in them. Those mods are responsible for the stats on the piece, aside from some baseline armor value (that is different based on Heavy/Medium/Light armor). E.g., if I want my Bounty Hunter to look like some odd mashup of a Sith Warrior and a Mandalorian, I could combine pieces and replace all of the mods in them and still have ideal stats?

Yes
 

It's nice to have a freindly debate :) I'll respond to your numbers.

1. We just have different preferences. I did a PVP server in vanilla WoW and hated it. I do PVE now. Open world PVP certainly can get you some awesome contested battles in some areas but I found most of it to consist of getting ganked over and over and over again by people hell-bent on ruining your play time. I'd love to play a MMO where you can have a leveling experience with only the threat of people your level jumping you.

2. Once again a difference of preference and experience. I just finished Balmorra and there were plenty of people running around. In fact I even had brief trouble completing a quest because there were people standing around waiting for the quest items to respawn. General chat is usually scrolling with conversation. I guess I just don't feel the need to actually see the avatars of all 150+ players on a planet running around lagging my PC and cock-blocking my questing. I participated in chat asking questions, offering advice, and telling jokes. At no point have I felt the world was barren just because I didn't see every player.

Can't comment on Biowares statements. I just didn't expect anything all that different from WoW and other MMO's.

3. I'm still not sure where you are going with this point. In most MMO's you can level entirely on your own. WoW being the obvious example. You can easily go from 1-85 without ever grouping with anyone ever and in that game's case there isn't that much point to grouping before max level anyways.

You can't do most heroic quests with just your companion (unless you are high enough level you should really be questing somewhere else). Same thing with Flashpoints.

I've never seen a guild that lasted long which relied on forums or chat spamming for recruitment. Such guilds usually fall apart as quickly as they grow with only a handful of elitists at the top which usually ignore all the new recruits. The best way to recruit is through direct interaction in PUGS. Maybe this is just another preference/experience/opinion difference but I find you can recruit more reliably, if slowly, just by actually chatting with random people you group with for heroics.

4. I stopped looking at official forums for MMOs a long time ago. A truely wretched hive of scum and villany. That said maybe drilling down into server-specific forums isn't as bad as the general more public stuff.
 

Darklord

Banned
A guild, that will have trouble recruiting. Since there is no server recruitment forum. You get banned or can be reported for recruiting in general chat. And the only forum you can recruit people from, is a global forum where your post is 10 pages back in 5 minutes. So the posts for guild recruitment turn into circle jerk sessions for current members to talk about how cool their guild is. Without actually getting any recruitment done.

First off, I like being able to solo most of the stuff. I hated in WoW when I'd have 10 elite quests and the best solo quest I could find was "Collect 35 of X". Also, grouping with people seems more fun now because you can knock out 3 or 4 heroic quests in one go rather than being screwed over because people don't want to do this one specific quest.

Secondly, my guild has 418 members in it. So having trouble recruiting? Hardly.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
2. Once again a difference of preference and experience. I just finished Balmorra and there were plenty of people running around. In fact I even had brief trouble completing a quest because there were people standing around waiting for the quest items to respawn. General chat is usually scrolling with conversation. I guess I just don't feel the need to actually see the avatars of all 150+ players on a planet running around lagging my PC and cock-blocking my questing. I participated in chat asking questions, offering advice, and telling jokes. At no point have I felt the world was barren just because I didn't see every player.
This has been my experience as well - plenty of people around up to and including Alderaan so far, on one of the more consistently full PvP servers. Earlier today I ran into several players doing the same missions as I was. I also ran into a couple opposing Republic players while wandering around solo. Ganked 3 of em, shortly after that a team of high level Republic players started prowling around.

Prior to that, I had similar experiences on Tatooine - ran into plenty of players around the map, got jumped by a few groups of Republic players, did some jumping of solo guys myself, never really felt too empty as I always ran into at least 1 or 2 players at the least within a minute of traveling.

I am noticing the player count go down as I move up in levels. We'll see how it goes from Taris on.
 

Lain

Member
I don't want to sit and wait for some quest objective while 15 people in front of me are also trying to do it.

Well, this game sometimes fails spectacularly at that.
There isn't a lack of quests that require you to interact with something (that will give you a key item) which will become useless until it re-spawns, and it doesn't re-spawn right away, so the people in your party with you (or the people around you doing the quest as well), doing the quest, have to sit around while forming a line to pick the object needed 1 at a time. Was in a party of 3 today doing a heroic quest on Balmorra, and we had to grab 2 key items each. So we had to wait for a minute after each of us grabbed it, and that's before a couple other people came so the wait became longer.



I hit level 26 today. Grabbed my ride skill at 25 and went from 75k to 18, from spending on abilities, ride skill, bike and some upgrades for the Hammer Lookout chest/legs I use (those white pants are awesome, they make my Operative's ass look even more hot and juicy).
After learning how to better manage the various skills, killing elites with 30-40k hps in heroic quests with just my companion isn't all that hard anymore.
Before I'd end with a dead companion and be forced to kite around, but now my good Kaliyo usually ends up alive lol.
Oh, and I forgot, while I love my aggro reset skill (so cool now to be able to survive if shit hits the fan), it is a little bugged. If you have something doing damage to you (like a dot), or something hits you as soon as you use the skill, you maintain the aggro state even if the mobs reset (at least that's what it looks like to me). I've had to wait for it to reset and reuse it to clear aggro completely in a few instances, once having to keep chain healing myself to survive for 3 minutes because as soon as I started casting heals on myself, the mobs I half reset came right back at me.
 

Walshicus

Member
Speaking of ride skills, I was a bit surprised to see the Speed Training listed under Consular powers. What's the point of the Vehicle tab in the powers list?



Also small tangent, asked a few pages back but didn't get a response; anyone have a complete list of which lightsabre colours are available and what their restrictions are?
 

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
I know that it's New Year's Eve, and I realize I was playing at 4 in the morning. But I just got done doing a bit of questing on Alderaan. And there were seven people on the planet.

Seven.

That's pretty darn lame. Between the instancing of quests, planetary instancing, and so many planets to actual be on, I am getting increasingly more disappointed in the lack of other players running around. I've played about five hours of ToR today; about 50/50 between Warzones and Questing, and while out questing, I ran past less than 20 people, no doubt.

So yeah, put me in the camp that desperately hopes Bioware figures out a way to make everything more populated.

Otherwise, though; I'm still loving the game! Dinged level 32 on my JK Sent this evening!
 

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Well, this game sometimes fails spectacularly at that.
There isn't a lack of quests that require you to interact with something (that will give you a key item) which will become useless until it re-spawns, and it doesn't re-spawn right away, so the people in your party with you (or the people around you doing the quest as well), doing the quest, have to sit around while forming a line to pick the object needed 1 at a time. Was in a party of 3 today doing a heroic quest on Balmorra, and we had to grab 2 key items each. So we had to wait for a minute after each of us grabbed it, and that's before a couple other people came so the wait became longer.



I hit level 26 today. Grabbed my ride skill at 25 and went from 75k to 18, from spending on abilities, ride skill, bike and some upgrades for the Hammer Lookout chest/legs I use (those white pants are awesome, they make my Operative's ass look even more hot and juicy).
After learning how to better manage the various skills, killing elites with 30-40k hps in heroic quests with just my companion isn't all that hard anymore.
Before I'd end with a dead companion and be forced to kite around, but now my good Kaliyo usually ends up alive lol.
Oh, and I forgot, while I love my aggro reset skill (so cool now to be able to survive if shit hits the fan), it is a little bugged. If you have something doing damage to you (like a dot), or something hits you as soon as you use the skill, you maintain the aggro state even if the mobs reset (at least that's what it looks like to me). I've had to wait for it to reset and reuse it to clear aggro completely in a few instances, once having to keep chain healing myself to survive for 3 minutes because as soon as I started casting heals on myself, the mobs I half reset came right back at me.



Just read this; you're killing 40K HP elites with just you and your companion at level 26?! How?!

Gah, I'm quickly realizing Jedi Knight Sentinel just isn't NEARLY as good for solo play as other classes. There's no way I could take that high HP on. Considering I'm a DPS, and my companion is a DPS, we just don't have the HP to survive.

I've spent a small fortune on armor at the GTM, have a decent rotation going on skills, etc. But even buffing myself up, using a stim, and using a medpack, there's no way I could even dream of taking on a guy with that much HP. With ~6K HP for each of us, there's just no way 12K HP can take on 40K HP, considering my companion isn't a healer.

lol, sorry... I'm ranting ;p
 

Lain

Member
Just read this; you're killing 40K HP elites with just you and your companion at level 26?! How?!

To be more specific, it's just the bosses of some heroic quests that are usually in the 30k range (but I got one today with 40k or so) and the odd named out in the world that I can now manage to down with not as much trouble as I had before, as the normal elites I encounter in the heroic quests are in the 6k range.
The fight gets a little long, as I can't spam abilities but have to keep energy in the 60% ballpark so regen is always fast and I can keep tossing heals on my companion, which means keeping a poison on the boss, using the energy free backstab and lots of rifle action, with the odd shiv here and there to grab a energy bump.
 

bjb

Banned
Just read this; you're killing 40K HP elites with just you and your companion at level 26?! How?!

Gah, I'm quickly realizing Jedi Knight Sentinel just isn't NEARLY as good for solo play as other classes. There's no way I could take that high HP on. Considering I'm a DPS, and my companion is a DPS, we just don't have the HP to survive.

I've spent a small fortune on armor at the GTM, have a decent rotation going on skills, etc. But even buffing myself up, using a stim, and using a medpack, there's no way I could even dream of taking on a guy with that much HP. With ~6K HP for each of us, there's just no way 12K HP can take on 40K HP, considering my companion isn't a healer.

lol, sorry... I'm ranting ;p

Sentinel and Marauder are universally regarding as the weakest classes in the game right now. Hands down.

In regards to end-game, there's absolutely no utility for us in Operations at this point, other than our Bloodthirst (heroism-like cooldown). Every other advanced class just absolutely shits on our damage, unless of course the person playing it is not competent.

Jugg's and Guardian's are a joke as well, but they make sufficient tanks if need be. The entire class needs a serious overhaul. It's basically a shitty melee class, with weak armor, who get crushed by other Npc's & players.

Granted I have a guildie who is in close-to full Champion's gear and does decent, but he's also a Rogue from a U.S. Top 100 Guild and has spent hours min / maxing his spec & perceived damage.

The lack of combat logs and statistics at launch is just shameful.
 

Dina

Member
Has this been posted? Dude is banned from the game for clicking on chests in the high-level zone Ilum with a character that's below the level requirement.

rilzW.jpg
 

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Sentinel and Marauder are universally regarding as the weakest classes in the game right now. Hands down.

In regards to end-game, there's absolutely no utility for us in Operations at this point, other than our Bloodthirst (heroism-like cooldown). Every other advanced class just absolutely shits on our damage, unless of course the person playing it is not competent.

Jugg's and Guardian's are a joke as well, but they make sufficient tanks if need be. The entire class needs a serious overhaul. It's basically a shitty melee class, with weak armor, who get crushed by other Npc's & players.

Granted I have a guildie who is in close-to full Champion's gear and does decent, but he's also a Rogue from a U.S. Top 100 Guild and has spent hours min / maxing his spec & perceived damage.

The lack of combat logs and statistics at launch is just shameful.

Well, I'm glad to see that it's not just me thinking this way.

This is my first MMO, and I haven't messed with any other classes past level eight or so, and thus I don't have a great "feel" for the game as a whole.

But man, I just feel like my JK Sent isn't good for *anything*. I mean, I love the story, think my companion is funny and cool, and dual light sabers is just badass looking. But my goodness, in actual combat - the most important part of the game - I just excel at nothing.

Armor is weak, and I can't take too terribly much damage.
DPS is lower than a lot of classes, and the best attacks have long cooldowns.
No CC, and as of level 32, only a single break in "force kick."
Zero heals, and my companion can't heal, either.

So when I'm out solo-ing, I have to avoid heroics and tip-toe around large mobs.

In groups, I'm not a lot of help. I mean, sure, I can bounce around from add to add and then help take down the boss and help with the occasional break. But otherwise, I'm just sucking down heals from the medic.

In PvP I'm getting raped.

Blah. I'm tired... time for bed ;p
 

bjb

Banned
Lets just sit quietly and think about how ridiculous that statement sounds.

Right, it's ridiculous.

How dare anyone expect BioWare, whom copied almost every one of WoW's decade-old template, not to include or allow logs (among many other tools) for players to analyze damage, healing, or other relevant stats to help progress in Heroics and Operations.

Lets all continue to sit back quietly and be thankful for an absence of key features. That, and the stupidity of some of the player-base, apparently.
 

bjb

Banned
Well, I'm glad to see that it's not just me thinking this way.

This is my first MMO, and I haven't messed with any other classes past level eight or so, and thus I don't have a great "feel" for the game as a whole.

But man, I just feel like my JK Sent isn't good for *anything*. I mean, I love the story, think my companion is funny and cool, and dual light sabers is just badass looking. But my goodness, in actual combat - the most important part of the game - I just excel at nothing.

Armor is weak, and I can't take too terribly much damage.
DPS is lower than a lot of classes, and the best attacks have long cooldowns.
No CC, and as of level 32, only a single break in "force kick."
Zero heals, and my companion can't heal, either.

So when I'm out solo-ing, I have to avoid heroics and tip-toe around large mobs.

In groups, I'm not a lot of help. I mean, sure, I can bounce around from add to add and then help take down the boss and help with the occasional break. But otherwise, I'm just sucking down heals from the medic.

In PvP I'm getting raped.

Blah. I'm tired... time for bed ;p

I know exactly how you feel man. These complaints can be found all over the Marauder & Sentinel forums at the official website. Just be thankful Sentinel's actually have really badass looking armor sets (complete with hoods). Marauders are made to look like robots and the bastard clones of Darth Malgus.

You'll get a CC for Droids (60 Second Stun), but I can't remember off-hand at what level you actually acquire it.

Just use your healer companion, and continue to stay stimmed and buffed as much as possible.

Easiest way to get buffs is just to Que for a Warzone, ask for buffs pre-match, and then leave.
 

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
I'd rather have stability than something that would help .0001% of the population at level 50 already.


The game is just launched, they've already said they will add these things and more to the game. This is why AA isn't turned on, it helps to show your game can actually run on decent computers, rather then opening it up and letting anyone mess with everything. Someone breaks the game themselves with an addon and it gets spread as bad press.
 

Walshicus

Member
Oh, which companions would you say were best for a Jedi Sage? I've been using the Trandoshan since I got him, but I'm wondering if my droid or
the playboy scoundrel type I got on Nar Showaddywaddy
might be better?
 

Darklord

Banned
Where can I change the appearance of my companion? Someone said the security key vendor but I don't want to install that app and screw around with that just to get access to that.
 

frequency

Member
How do people know Sentinel/Marauder has lower DPS? I thought there wasn't a combat log and so there's no parser (dps meter or whatever). Is it just anecdotal?

I don't feel particularly strong or solo-able as a Gunslinger myself. But maybe I just suck. Sometimes I swear Corso (the first companion) does more damage and has more survivability than I do.
 

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
Where can I change the appearance of my companion? Someone said the security key vendor but I don't want to install that app and screw around with that just to get access to that.

That's where some of them are, some other ones are on the fleet.
 

Won

Member
Skel1ingt0n said:
But man, I just feel like my JK Sent isn't good for *anything*.

On the other end, I'm playing around with a Sage at the moment and at level 15 I have like everything. Stun, Knockback, Heals, Shields, Slows, Everything!
It's pure madness. No wonder the class is so popular. Why would you not want to play it?
 

Walshicus

Member
On the other end, I'm playing around with a Sage at the moment and at level 15 I have like everything. Stun, Knockback, Heals, Shields, Slows, Everything!
It's pure madness. No wonder the class is so popular. Why would you not want to play it?

The voice? The worst thing about grouping up is that I get to hear other people's voice acting - they're all much better than the Consular's.
 

Izayoi

Banned
I don't feel particularly strong or solo-able as a Gunslinger myself. But maybe I just suck. Sometimes I swear Corso (the first companion) does more damage and has more survivability than I do.
Give it time. You're one of the best classes in the game at cap.
 
What's the deal with group phasing? I was standing outside of a 2+ group quest and a few other characters showed up. They tried to add me to their group, but I got a message saying they may be on a different instance. I was staring right at them! How can they be on a different instance? Am I missing something here?
 

Izayoi

Banned
What's the deal with group phasing? I was standing outside of a 2+ group quest and a few other characters showed up. They tried to add me to their group, but I got a message saying they may be on a different instance. I was staring right at them! How can they be on a different instance? Am I missing something here?
The way instances are currently handled is a mess. The leader is going to have to reset all phases/flashpoints, but can't do it more than once every five minutes, so if he's done it in the past five minutes, you have to break group, switch leaders, and have the new leader clear all phases/flashpoints.
 

Won

Member
The voice? The worst thing about grouping up is that I get to hear other people's voice acting - they're all much better than the Consular's.

Well, it's not my first char, so I just skip most of it.

And from what I actually heard it's not that bad.
 

Ricker

Member
Some of the graphics and set pieces in this game are awesome...I just did Hammer Station for the first time last evening and near the end there is a giant Cannon inside the ship you are fighting in that shoots out enormous volcanic type rocks in space...we all just stopped for a bit and admire the scenery,good stuff.
 

Ken

Member
What's a good source for companion gifts? I've only gotten one as a drop so far and I don't have any mission skills.
 

Wallach

Member
What's a good source for companion gifts? I've only gotten one as a drop so far and I don't have any mission skills.

Diplomacy is the mission skill that gives companion gifts. Goes best with Biochem since it also has missions for medical supplies (blue/purple Biochem crafting materials). Worth it not only for the free XP from companion missions, but they work faster when crafting (and supposedly return more materials from gathering missions).

Speaking of Biochem, I'm now over 100 reverse engineered level 49 implants and zero schematics. I'm starting to think this item is bugged. The level 48 adrenal I got the purple schematic for comparatively easily.
 

Choc

Banned
Has this been posted? Dude is banned from the game for clicking on chests in the high-level zone Ilum with a character that's below the level requirement.

rilzW.jpg

Don't let people bloody go there until level 50 then


its not hard bioware. What a joke

edit: oh its fake. Well, still the fact i even considered this remotely possible means its an EA game

lol ;p
 

Zafir

Member
Well, I'm glad to see that it's not just me thinking this way.

This is my first MMO, and I haven't messed with any other classes past level eight or so, and thus I don't have a great "feel" for the game as a whole.

But man, I just feel like my JK Sent isn't good for *anything*. I mean, I love the story, think my companion is funny and cool, and dual light sabers is just badass looking. But my goodness, in actual combat - the most important part of the game - I just excel at nothing.

Armor is weak, and I can't take too terribly much damage.
DPS is lower than a lot of classes, and the best attacks have long cooldowns.
No CC, and as of level 32, only a single break in "force kick."
Zero heals, and my companion can't heal, either.

So when I'm out solo-ing, I have to avoid heroics and tip-toe around large mobs.

In groups, I'm not a lot of help. I mean, sure, I can bounce around from add to add and then help take down the boss and help with the occasional break. But otherwise, I'm just sucking down heals from the medic.

In PvP I'm getting raped.

Blah. I'm tired... time for bed ;p
Once you get your healing companion it'll become easier(I've heard you get him around mid 30s?, not sure, I'm sith and we get it much earlier), though the class is still weak. Also at an higher level the damage becomes better(Though not enough to solve the survivability problem).

Juggernauts/Guardians aren't much better either, while they are perfectly viable tanks when there's only 1 or 2 mobs, anything more and CC is required. Which is why Powertechs end up being better for the job. Also despite having heavy armour, you still feel flimsy.

I do hope Warriors/Knights get a much needed buff of some kind, while they are perfectly playable in certain conditions, at other times they're just rather useless. The class quests themselves just show how useless both classes are alone, some of the level 40+ class quests are just plain tedious.
 
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