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Star Wars: The Old Republic |OT| EA: "Let's blow this thing and go home!"
- Thread starter Emitan
- Start date
Unfortunately, theorycrafting will be coming as soon as they get combat logs in the game.
Enjoy playing however you want to play while it lasts. As long as shit is dying, who the fuck really cares? People are figuring out the raids, people are doing ok in PvP, and nobody is fucking gimped to uselessness in PvE.
Once theorycrafting starts though, and once the game gets opened to mods, its going to be WoW all over again. Play the game 1 certain way or GTFO.
Once numbers get out there, class whining will begin. And then that'll start the slippery slope of trying to re-balance everything every damn patch or every expansion and the class that's on top, will find itself on bottom, and the class on bottom will be top for a while, and the ones in the middle will get random nerfs and buffs, and everyone will be like, 'WTF', and that's when this game goes down a one-lane expressway to Shitville.
RoninChaos
Member
Hell yeah, and we just downed another in Tatooine. Thanks again for waiting for me and my girl. You guys are seriously fucking awesome.
ROOTS MMO, bet it!
Now I just gotta get some lube so I can have my way with this robot. Where's my Chewie mask?!
FieryBalrog
Member
And when the shit isn't dying?
I completely fail to understand this mindset. "You want to know how you're doing? Too bad. You would only exploit that information to improve your play, thus ruining the game."
Why even have hardmode raiding (with enrage timers, no less) if you don't want people putting effort into figuring shit out?
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
At least it's known. If combat is the primary system/form of interaction and it doesn't work right, you've got a broken product.
It just feels so awful right now.
Speaking of bugs (well, the combat lag might not be classified as a bug, but a poorly implemented feature) anyone else experience the knocked down companion bug?
Forgot about it until now, but my companion was affected by a knockback and he just stayed on the ground, porting around looking like a corpse as he followed me. Did combat in the state as well. He eventually got fixed when I went through a loading screen though.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Welp, I just rage quit for the first time.
Right now I'm late in Act I with my Jedi Knight, storming an enemy vessel. I'm not even to the "main boss", rather, just a measly guard infront of a computer terminal I have to access. But he has 15K HP.
I've decked my lvl33 Jedi Knight Sent with just about the best armor and weapons you can get at my level, but I just don't have the HP to take him on. I have a stim going, I'm buffing myself, and I'm doing everything I can. Five attempts; each one costing a $1,700c stim and a $700c trauma pack, and I just can't kill him. Finally decide to use my 20min cooldown "call on the force", and I get him down to about 200HP, but he knocks out my ~500HP in a single blow. I held the power button down on my computer and walked away.
Even better, is I was having trouble with a similar situation just like 30 minutes prior. In the last 2hours, I've burned through $40,000 in credits on stims and trauma packs. I just don't know what to do. ARRRG.
/rant
/rage
/I apologize.
... I'm tired. I think I'm just gonna call it a night. UGH. I was playing my buddy's lvl 24 Trooper, and I swear he was WAY more powerful than I was at that level. I could just stand back and take out entire mobs no sweat, and when I did get hit, no biggie, I have oodles and oodles of HP. Definitely gonna roll one of those for my next character.
Right now I'm late in Act I with my Jedi Knight, storming an enemy vessel. I'm not even to the "main boss", rather, just a measly guard infront of a computer terminal I have to access. But he has 15K HP.
I've decked my lvl33 Jedi Knight Sent with just about the best armor and weapons you can get at my level, but I just don't have the HP to take him on. I have a stim going, I'm buffing myself, and I'm doing everything I can. Five attempts; each one costing a $1,700c stim and a $700c trauma pack, and I just can't kill him. Finally decide to use my 20min cooldown "call on the force", and I get him down to about 200HP, but he knocks out my ~500HP in a single blow. I held the power button down on my computer and walked away.
Even better, is I was having trouble with a similar situation just like 30 minutes prior. In the last 2hours, I've burned through $40,000 in credits on stims and trauma packs. I just don't know what to do. ARRRG.
/rant
/rage
/I apologize.
... I'm tired. I think I'm just gonna call it a night. UGH. I was playing my buddy's lvl 24 Trooper, and I swear he was WAY more powerful than I was at that level. I could just stand back and take out entire mobs no sweat, and when I did get hit, no biggie, I have oodles and oodles of HP. Definitely gonna roll one of those for my next character.
This drivel is idiotic. Sorry if some people enjoy actually being good at games they play. Theorycrafting will exist even if there aren't combat logs, we know how damage works in general and it's not hard to theorycraft it, what doesn't exist is a way to see if you're actually correctly playing the damn thing. The only argument against having the tools to see success and failure properly are the ones spouted by people who want to hide their badness in obscurity. "Why can't we kill this boss in time?" "I dunno, everyone says they're doing their best possible dps!"
If you don't want to min max, don't. If you don't want OTHER people to min-max then multiplayer games are not for you.
"Theorycrafting" is called having a brain, and using it to analyze the game and the tools available to you. Just because you don't know there's a best spec yet doesn't mean there isn't a best spec (Hint: there is ALWAYS a best spec), and just because nobody tells you you're bad in game yet doesn't mean you're not bad.
You don't need logs to parse damage. You can do that now with the scrolling combat text, fraps, and something that will allow you to accurately time what's going on.
The numbers are already out there, so denying a combat log only delays the inevitable. Even without SCT, the game would be reverse engineered. Bioware can either embrace this fact, or act against it, which in the long run does nothing because the information will get out one way or another.
Which is the kind of idiocy that creates different kinds of class whining.
Not to mention the extreme difficulty in tuning raids if you're actively trying to hide information on class mechanics from the players.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
I don't *think* I can have someone accompany me. Please lemme know if I'm wrong - I very well might be! But it's a location that only showed up on my map after a certain quest. And I dock my ship directly into the "battle", basically. I'll look into it tomorrow.
For now, I'm gonna take a break. I'm pretty frustrated, and I don't want to feel that way toward the game, because I really love a lot -a LOT - about it. But mand, level 25-33, so far, has been a NIGHTMARE playing JK solo. And for the most part, I'm at least a lvl or 2 above recommended.
Guess I'll start up Skyrim or another Christmas gift, and try coming back to this in 24 hours or so.
Trooper final Act1 mission is not impossible but just FUCKED.
Literally took me 4 hours to complete one mission.
Had randomly spawning/despawning NPC's, glitching out evading boss npcs, dying and respawning in the wrong part of the ship locked off during the quest forcing me to use my fleet pass, and npc bosses out damaging & healing me at the same time @ level 32.
This mission took the title of most bugged piece of content I have ever exprienced in a mmo. (and I've played CoH, SWG, EVE, FFXIV, etc..) Miserable experience.
On a positive note, starting to look the part.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Yes, it's funny how quickly the bitching goes from "this game is a total rip-off of WoW!" to "this game isn't enough like WoW!" hehe
People somehow handled high end raiding in Everquest without recount, DBM, healbot, and raid performance graphs. The best players out there found a way to beat Molten Core, UBRS, and AQ without 2000 mods, elitist jerks, and pages of Excel spreadsheets.
What you are describing would be ok in an ideal world. The fact is, people exploit that information to ridicule other players, force people into playing 1 certain way, create a hostile community between players, and a hostile community between players and developers.
This is something very unique to the MMO genre, and its something that has really turned me off as the years go by. I don't know any other genre of game, that requires such extensive work outside the game, through the use of theorycrafting, 3rd party mods, graphs, and spreadsheets in order to be successful inside the game. I mean, we're not talking about taking a quick glance at gamefaqs to see how to beat the boss or find a cheat code. There are serious math nerds out there who build extensive websites and pour hundreds of man hours into building databases of information, building spreadsheets, and coming up with complex mathematical formulas in order to figure out how to beat these games.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Is there a place I can get this game on sale yet? Or do I have to wait until at least 30 days after launch?
HarryDemeanor
Member
Might have to wait a while. I haven't seen any sales on it yet personally.
FieryBalrog
Member
You didn't get to play like a unique snowflake in high-end EQ raiding either (what's that, you don't like your Complete Heal rotation?). People still theorycrafted and enforced playstyles, just without the tools. You're comfortably destroying your own point here. In fact it was worse since entire classes were completely despised and rejected from raids.
Unless you are now changing your argument to "theorycrafting should be impeded by inconvenient and primitive tools, like in EQ". Which is a different kettle of fish.
MisterNugNug
Member
Yes that's right, give into it. Embrace your anger. Embrace your rage. The Dark Side of The Force is a pathway to many abilities some would consider to be un-natural.
FieryBalrog
Member
Exactly. Pretty sure no one is going to yell at you for your special rotation when you're getting through your class storyline. When you step into raiding you're consciously choosing to step into a world of optimization. In fact, optimization is the entire POINT of continuous raiding.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
You can group for class quests, people go into spectator mode during conversations where they can't roll for replies, but when its fighting they can help.
It spawns more enemies sometimes though, that might just be group phases for the planet storyline though.
Or, you know...Fun?
RoninChaos
Member
Fun's for bitches. I thought you knew.
FieryBalrog
Member
You know, "fun" and "optimization" are not mutually exclusive terms.
Just like the "fun" of competitive Starcraft comes from optimizing your play.
Raiding is fun when you're, as a group, overcoming challenges.
Raiding isn't fun when your DPS isn't carrying their weight because they insist on using subpar specs/rotations that stunt their damage potential and kill the raid's DPS to the point where things don't die (or where things die much harder than they need to).
This may be solved with normal mode raids being easy enough to play through with mashing 1 button, but heroic and nightmare modes will certain be tuned around the assumption that people aren't purposefully gimping themselves.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Continuous raiding and optimization rarely go hand in hand, despite how much people seem to think they do. If that's why people do it, more power to them I guess, but it's really a dead art.
I don't care how optimized your gear is, standing in fire isn't going to save you. You need to beat the berserk timers, or healers going oom. Anything after that is just fluff.
Everything in WoW over the past 2 expansions has been more about the mechanics of the fight rather than tank and spanking and gear checking the raid.
I'd rather play a fun spec than play one that gets 30 more dps, but is a bore rotation.
I don't care how optimized your gear is, standing in fire isn't going to save you. You need to beat the berserk timers, or healers going oom. Anything after that is just fluff.
Everything in WoW over the past 2 expansions has been more about the mechanics of the fight rather than tank and spanking and gear checking the raid.
I'd rather play a fun spec than play one that gets 30 more dps, but is a bore rotation.
FieryBalrog
Member
Then who's stopping you? Pretty sure no one you want to raid with will care about that. If it's a 50% DPS drop, then yes, maybe you aren't exactly pulling your weight with your "fun" rotation.
More to the point, you're not going to have any clue whether its 30 DPS or 3000 DPS until someone's crunching the numbers.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Pulling their weight to what? It's not like doing bare minimum is difficult, bare minimum is all that's required for most heroic shit in WoW these days, yet some of the encounters are as hard and fun as ever.
If the ops are gear checks and not skill checks than the problem is the ops, not the players. When was there ever a 50% dps drop in anything ever? People freak the fuck out over 500-1k dps these days and that culture has to stop before it gets started.
The fucking dumbest fight in BC was Mu'ru, because it's just a DPS race. Boring.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Besides AA, isn't this just all stuff you can edit in the game anyway?
HEHEHE OH SHIT YOU'RE SO WITTY! Fucking pointless wow trolling, the GAME is the same as wow, the out of game tools available to players are not, and it's not a GOOD thing that it doesn't have the ability to actually figure anything out. That's like being proud that your car lacks standard features like airbags.
You clearly never raided in Everquest, or early vanilla wow, or anything else, at any sort of level approaching 'high end'.
Everquest had combat logging, it had parsing, just like World of Logs. it couldn't parse in game in real time into a damage meter (actually...if you ran software on a linux box seperately that was packet sniffing, THAT could read it in real time, but I digress) and things were ABSOLUTELY analyzed at that level. The flipside of course is that DPSing in Everquest was not something you had to actively think about. My dps rotation as a monk at 50? Hitting Flying Kick every 10 seconds and making sure I didn't let the mob get out of my autoattack range. Apples to oranges here.
Vanilla wow? Sorry but that's where Theorycrafting was BORN. I played a rogue, prior to release and for a month or two after people all thought Seal Fate was the best spec (this was 30 points in Assassination), shortly after that someone with a little brainpower and some math behind their brain had a revelation! the best spec was 'combat' with 'daggers' and overnight rogues all changed to the best spec. Fights may not have been tightly tuned for a while (Not until some of BWL and then AQ40 first introduced hard berserk timers), but since we were actually, y'know, good at wow, we cared about how we performed. Molten Core was a snorefest, except for all of us with our DamageMeter addons (back when that's what it was called) and competing for top dps. We knew who sucked. It just didn't matter. If you didn't care and your guild didn't care, grats to you, but you're still being carried.
The lack of information about who is carrying who doesn't mean it's not happening, that kind of argument is the most head-in-the-sand bullshit I've ever heard. The only kind of game that can POSSIBLY exist that simply lets you hit whatever buttons you want to and not be punished for failure, is a game called "Hit any button you want and win!"
This is the equivilent of asking for Mario to reward you for being totally unable to hit the jump button and unwilling to learn. You are not operating the game correctly at a mechanical level, and yet you expect it to somehow not punish you for it. If you think it's dumb that classes and specs are super imbalanced, fine, go tell Bioware, I agree they should be closely balanced, but refusing to do what is best because you don't want to is something that deserves as little success as it cost in effort.
The 'bare minimum' in what regard? Every fight is different. I don't know about you, but I actually fought M'uru, which it doesn't sound like you did, let alone any other DPS check boss. 500-1k dps spread accross your entire group is the equivilent of having an entire extra player in your raid. That's effing huge. If you're nto going to do it, we're going to find someone that will. The fact that YOU burden the group with your unwillingness to do what is best is just flat out selfish in a game that is about playing with others, and you can't blame them for not wanting to play with you when you pull that shit.
I think you've helped me understand this viewpoint, the "WAHH NO COMBAT LOGS, NO WAY TO SEE WHO DOES WELL OR DOES POORLY" crowd is basically the MMO divide that showcases people who still think the world revolves around them and caters to them. Single player games can do that all they want, but in a Multiplayer game you can't force people to want to play with you when you're not doing anything beneficial for them.
Hard to say the bulk of DPS comes from Back Blast or Backstab when it has a long enough cooldown that it can't be used more than every six attacks, unlike Shadow/Assassin where the attack has no cooldown and is instead regulated by resource (like a Rogue). Even then, the main comparison is that they need to be behind the target to do optimal burst damage - which is true, but it is also true for Shadow/Assassin anyway.
Where they don't play that similarly at all is after the stealth opening cascade. When you're playing a Rogue, energy only really has two consideration states in combat - full, meaning you need to spend energy, or too low to perform the current optimal attack. If you try and mimic the burst damage of a dagger Rogue coming out of stealth, you bury yourself in a resource deficit that a Rogue doesn't.
That's what I mean by open combat not feeling similar; a Scoundrel/Operative can't always use the skill that would be optimal without further consideration of your current energy gating. Shadow/Assassin is much more like a Rogue in this respect - Force is a resource more similar to WoW energy, so once they have dropped out of stealth, they have very similar thought processes in terms of what they need to do. Other functionality they have, especially as Infiltration, reminds me more of how a Rogue feels. They have a stance that basically resembles DD poison state, they get passive chance-on-hit resource return, they get a Gouge, and their end tier is sort of a Sinister Strike that builds a pair of combo points buffing Project into a mini-Eviscerate. Resource costs and rate of expenditure feel much more similar to a Rogue than Scoundrel/Operative.
You can lay a very similar CC/burst beatdown if you get the drop on someone, but doing it blows up your energy and it's at that moment where the two play styles diverge pretty significantly. You're penalized pretty heavily for trying to mimic a Rogue's playstyle due to energy gating, where the Assassin/Shadow is not.
Is there some resting point other than my ship and a cantina? It's really annoying when I want to log out but I'm in some quest hub in the middle of nowhere and there's no cantina or easy way back to my ship.
And then I don't really feel like playing the next day because when I log in, I have to go all the way back to the questing spot.
And then I don't really feel like playing the next day because when I log in, I have to go all the way back to the questing spot.
Fleet as well, but basically just have to quick travel back to the cantina.
Holy shit, TheYanger, breath dude. He obviously was making fun of the fact that people are fickle and opinions are crazy in regards to the whole "this is wow, this is not wow" pointless argument.
Man some people get way too into MMOs. That wasn't directed at Yanger, just an observation.
Man some people get way too into MMOs. That wasn't directed at Yanger, just an observation.
That's really dumb.
I'm really enjoying the good things about this game, but the missing/annoying things are really starting to get to me.
I don't want this to just be WoW with a Star Wars skin but WoW advanced the genre quite a bit and this game is either ignoring or didn't have time to implement some of the good advancements.
I think someone else mentioned it earlier in the thread, but this really does just feel like a single player game that they tried to MMO-ize.
kyo_daikun
Member
This page needs to calm down a bit..
Was good fun killing the world boss quickly before I went to work, was a bit too easy tho, don't think anyone was even close to dying lol
Was good fun killing the world boss quickly before I went to work, was a bit too easy tho, don't think anyone was even close to dying lol
Not yet. They'll include it later.
TheDancingWatermelon
Member
Supposedly they'll be adding same-sex romance in a future patch. My friend rolled a female marauder and he's sad he can't romance some of the women. :lol
And this thread needs to chill out, I don't post here often but I love coming in to see pictures of peoples characters, help others or to read interesting posts. Not the WoW Dick wagging and verbal abuse towards others thats been going on lately. I can't be the only one feeling this way can I?
DurielBlack
Member
I pretty much just don't worry about it. Leveling seems pretty quick in this game and unless you are going to spend several days away it's not really worth the tiny boost of rested XP you will have saved up over the period of say, one day.
I work long shifts on the weekends and have no time to play, so for 3 days I park my character in a cantina/ship but the rest of the week I don't worry about it.
I suppose I should join the GAF guild now that I have settled on a character. Powertech tanking is just a lot of fun to play and the heat stuff is a neat reverse rage mechanic. (The game badly needs a threat meter so you know when it's safe to let it cool down and when you need to be pushing it)
After tanking a bit I have decided I hate anyone who rolls one of those lightsaber classed to DPS with. I want to bludgeon about 97% of the ones I have grouped with to death.
After tanking a bit I have decided I hate anyone who rolls one of those lightsaber classed to DPS with. I want to bludgeon about 97% of the ones I have grouped with to death.
Oni Link 666
Member
I got to level 44 tonight and finished Belsavis. I have some issues with this area. One being how all the mobs are so close to each other and how many different areas full of mobs you have to run through to get to where you have to go. I must have killed a thousand mobs in this planet alone. It's a real pain in the ass getting around when you can't just stealth past everything. The other is how there's level 50 mobs all over the place. I died quite a few times from running into level 50s. I guess this is some kind of daily quest hub for level 50s. I wish they would have separated that stuff better. Oh and there were no reflex barrels on the mod commendations guy. What the hell? I guess I should have looked first. I thought they always had upgraded mods in every planet. That's the first time I didn't find any of the ones I use. I just spent all my commendations on Mako instead.
I think my favorite zone so far is Hoth. I just think the area is really well done and the story is pretty good. I thought the whole angle of the Empire just being there to distract and annoy the Republic was pretty interesting. Oh and Blizz rules. Even the scary Sith on the Fleet think he's cute.
Starting on Voss now.
I think my favorite zone so far is Hoth. I just think the area is really well done and the story is pretty good. I thought the whole angle of the Empire just being there to distract and annoy the Republic was pretty interesting. Oh and Blizz rules. Even the scary Sith on the Fleet think he's cute.
Starting on Voss now.
BlindSwordsmanZ
Member
All you have to do is crush the character quests and get the hell off that first planet. Game starts at 10 and you can get there in about 2 hours..
I guess I have to try to not care about it so much. I'm just so used to it.
I've only played like a week and I'm already level 21. So yeah... leveling is super fast. I guess my thinking is that if possible, I'd like to be over-leveled. Because I am seriously finding this to be one of the harder modern MMO experiences.
And I don't feel right leaving Heroic quests incomplete.
But I guess I need to learn to "let go" and just enjoy myself before I drive myself mad or turn myself off the game because I can't rest easily.
As opposed to all of the people that don't think they should have the tools to actively do better in an activity that they enjoy? Not saying I don't get your point, but just because I can explode into a huge tirade about my side of the argument doesn't mean the other side isn't shitting the thread up too, it's been going on for pages already before I was even sober and awake from New Years
People get so into MMOs because they're such a time consuming and personal experience. If I were a pro SC2 player I'd be just as passionate about that, and especially when it comes to 'high level' MMO play it's just as much a sport as any other game. MMOs just generally aren't even viable for someone that isn't going to invest a lot into them, someone that is casual will never reach the point where they're even aware of the stuff that is being discussed. There are 'hardcore' enthusiasts for everything, like the thread about that guy that played bubsy 3d for 500 hours on one level.
BlindSwordsmanZ
Member
WTF, Link?
I'm right there with you man. I've been coming in here for news, pics, and written experiences. The feuds are making it hard to sort through.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
MMOs is serious business. If you're not spreadsheeting you're doing it wrong.
yes, I turned spreadsheet into a verb and I'm proud of it dammit!