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[razgriz417]

Eh? No thats giving them dual purpose roles. Currently they are too effective at both being a tank by healing themselves and protecting themselves, while still dishing out the heals for their team mates. Healers should be dependant on other players for proper protection. Sorc healers here don't need to have the usual "protect the healer!" thing as they themselves are incredibly hardy while they can effectively also be helping their own team.

Well i have never seen anyone in my entire time of pvping even get more than 9 medals so i cant say. And i definitely agree that often to win a match im giving up 2-3 medals ESPECIALLY in huttball.

Yea I've noticed that to get that high its usually Juggs or Assassins using Guard on the healer or ballcarrier, and AOE taunts. I'm not 100% how guard medals work but they seem to get a ton through taking damage from others. I mean I'm fine with them getting medals for helping the team, I just wished healers got the same treatment.

 

[gyrspike]

Pretty sure medals for for medpack healing are already gone, at least in the 50 bracket.

Damage generates much more medals than healing. Healing has the 2.5k and 5k heal medals along with the medals for healing 75k total and 300k total. Damage on the other hand has medals for 1v1 kill, killing blow, damage total 75k 300k, single hit damage 2.5k 5k, and kills 10 25.

That's 4 possible medals from healing and 8 possible medals from damage.

As a healer you really have to stop and DPS at some point if you want to get a decent medal total. As a mercenary I use my supercharge gas when my heat is high. This causes powershot to be effectively free and allows me to do some damage while my heat is actually dropping.

 

[Tallshortman]

PvP healers should have very high survivability. A PvP healer is basically a tank. We shouldn't be able to do much else beyond keeping people (and ourselves) up a little longer.

The worst thing they can do to PvP is to balance for 1v1 situations. If people focus on the healer, as they should, they go down relatively quick. If we were any softer, we'd be useless. Even if you just put like 2 people on a healer, they'll be busy healing themselves while the rest of your team does their thing.

In 1v1, a PvP healer might survive longer than any other class you fight against, but they also have almost 0 chance of actually winning that fight.

I would say nerf damage, but it's not that high from what I understand. They just need a better way to separate the DPS and healing capabilities of the class. It was a really dumb idea to make a single class both the Mage and the Priest of the game.

I hate to make a wow reference but it's basically putting a warlock and pally together. I played pally, which was an amazing survivable healer when played right but it didn't have the added fact of being the best pure healing class and very good sustained dps along with it's survivability. It's like BW decided the class should have no downsides.

 

[TheYanger]

All good. You're just misguided and on the wrong side. Come to the dark side and join Empire GAF like Kruul.



So far as I know, there are medals for:

- 1st killing blow
- killing an opponent in single combat
- 10 kills
- 25 kills (there's probably another tier after this)

- 2.5k damage in a single attack
- 75k damage done (there's probably another tier after this, at 300k like for heals)

- 2.5k healed in a single cast
- 75k heals done
- 300k heals done

- 1k defender points (objective based: killing ball carrier, holding AA cannons, etc.)
- 3k defender points
- 5k defender points

- guarding (not so sure about this one, but probably from absorbing a certain amount of damage as a tank for others)

There are 5k single attack and 5k single heal medals as well, afaik (I'm a tank, I can't get either of those), and the guarding medals are:
- 5k Defense
- 50k Defense
- 2k Defense in a single life
- 10k Defense in a single life

Those are measured purely in terms of damage prevented to allies either with Guard or with taunts (Taunts reduce targets damage by 30% for 6 seconds unless they attack you, so basically 30% of anyone that gets hit with an AE taunt goes to your 'defense' stat).

"Protect the healer" is still in place.
Try healing yourself AND others when 2 DPS are on you with interrupts and stuns and pushback. How about 3?
When a healer is focused on, they are healing themselves and "tanking". Not healing others.
When I'm focused by DPS, I can't even take time to throw a shield or HoT at someone who needs help. That 1.5s GCD + pushback to get my heal off means I will die.

It's not at all dual purpose.

Healers in SWTOR are actually way softer than healers in a comparative MMO. If my survivability is lowered, I'm done with PvP. It's hard enough as is. And I get no credit for the work I do. If I'm going to die for the sake of 1v1 balance, then why should I even bother to heal? DPS would reward me better and then at least I stand a chance in 1v1.

If anything needs to be done to Sorcs/Sages, it's to the survivability of the DPS guys. Not the healers.

If I'm too effective at healing, then I'll argue that you're too effective at DPSing. Because people still die. A lot.

Are you absolutely dependent on other players to DPS? You get no kills if no one helps you?
Why should I be unable to do my job unless I have someone on my team hugging my butt at all times in some effort to "protect me". I should be protecting them. Not the other way around.

If people still die a lot it's because you're a bad healer or the only healer on your team. Healers are RETARDEDLY powerful in pvp. The abundance of sorcs is the single largest factor that causes empire to win more warzones on average (via that post bioware made a bit ago) I'm almost positive - 3 or 4 sorcs that are ACTUALLY casting heals during a match makes everyone essentially unkillable. They don't have to be remotely healer specced, which is the issue, all specs of sorcerer/sage are extremely durable (moreso than ANY other class in my experience, even tanks) and interrupts are too feeble in this game to prevent them from keeping each other topped off.

 

[frequency]

I hate to make a wow reference but it's basically putting a warlock and pally together. I played pally, which was an amazing survivable healer when played right but it didn't have the added fact of being the best pure healing class and very good sustained dps along with it's survivability. It's like BW decided the class should have no downsides.

I agree that's a problem. Like I said, it was dumb to put the Mage and Priest class in the same AC. Nerfing healer survivability is not the answer though. Make the DPS guys unable to keep themselves up while dishing out consistent damage.

If people still die a lot it's because you're a bad healer or the only healer on your team. Healers are RETARDEDLY powerful in pvp. The abundance of sorcs is the single largest factor that causes empire to win more warzones on average (via that post bioware made a bit ago) I'm almost positive - 3 or 4 sorcs that are ACTUALLY casting heals during a match makes everyone essentially unkillable. They don't have to be remotely healer specced, which is the issue, all specs of sorcerer/sage are extremely durable (moreso than ANY other class in my experience, even tanks) and interrupts are too feeble in this game to prevent them from keeping each other topped off.

You play a lot of WoW right?

A healing Sage/Sorc in this game right now is pretty much like a Holy Priest.
I'll decrease my healing ability for survivability by spreading out my talents on all 3 trees for damage reducers to try to get more like a Disc Priest.

I agree that there is an issue with Sorcs/Sages being able to damage and keep themselves up. That's not my argument. Nerf the hell out of that if you want.

My argument is that whatever is going to be nerfed, it should not be the survivability of HEALING Sorcs/Sages.

I'll accept that I'm a bad player because people die in WZs and I can't keep up 10 people with 600 Force, cast times, GCD, interrupts, CCs, and disproportionate DPS/burst.

Now please, go roll a Sorc/Sage, spec healer, and go do a few WZs. Then come back and tell me how you managed to never die and keep your entire team up because your survivability and ability to heal others while being focused is so awesome as a Sorc/Sage.


My solution would be to move the talent that increases the shield absorb by like 20% to a high tier in the healing tree. Give the trees bonuses (ala WoW), so that you can only heal effectively in the healing tree. Going another tree with give you bonuses in other areas.

 

[Prodigal]

So right now I have a 31 Assassin and 33 Operative...but I'm tempted to ditch the assassin. Both classes seem somewhat similar in their rogue-ish elements, but if I'm not planning on tanking with my assassin, are there enough unique abilities later on to provide further differentiation between the two classes? I sort of want to roll a Sorc now instead also.

 

[CzarTim]

If all I cared about was medals, I'd stop healing after getting the 75k one. Hard to get 300k except on maybe Voidstar.

 

[Emitan]

If all I cared about was medals, I'd stop healing after getting the 75k one. Hard to get 300k except on maybe Voidstar.

If I cared about medals I wouldn't play a healing Scoundrel. I can only top off groups or effectively heal one person (1 on 1 or MAYBE 2 on 1) due to energy regeneration. Feels like Sages and Sorcs can heal forever.

 

[TheYanger]

I agree that's a problem. Like I said, it was dumb to put the Mage and Priest class in the same AC. Nerfing healer survivability is not the answer though. Make the DPS guys unable to keep themselves up while dishing out consistent damage.


You play a lot of WoW right?

A healing Sage/Sorc in this game right now is pretty much like a Holy Priest.
I'll decrease my healing ability for survivability by spreading out my talents on all 3 trees for damage reducers to try to get more like a Disc Priest.

I agree that there is an issue with Sorcs/Sages being able to damage and keep themselves up. That's not my argument. Nerf the hell out of that if you want.

My argument is that whatever is going to be nerfed, it should not be the survivability of HEALING Sorcs/Sages.

I'll accept that I'm a bad player because people die in WZs and I can't keep up 10 people with 600 Force, cast times, GCD, interrupts, CCs, and disproportionate DPS/burst.

Now please, go roll a Sorc/Sage, spec healer, and go do a few WZs. Then come back and tell me how you managed to never die and keep your entire team up because your survivability and ability to heal others while being focused is so awesome as a Sorc/Sage.


My solution would be to move the talent that increases the shield absorb by like 20% to a high tier in the healing tree. Give the trees bonuses (ala WoW), so that you can only heal effectively in the healing tree. Going another tree with give you bonuses in other areas.

I never said they should nerf the healing specs. The problem is SOLELY that the CLASS is durable, not the spec. Actually, I take that back, It's a problem with the game in general - any spec of any class is able to double dip their 'hybrid' abilities a bit too easily. All of the healers are capable of more than respectable damage while being healing specced, ditto tanks, and then the dps specced tank and healing classes are too effective at healing and tanking while NOT being those specs. Sorcs/Sages just stand out because the bubbles are so insanely powerful. It's not just 'it should be weaker for dps specs' so much as I genuinely don't think dps sorcs should have access to them at all.

A sorc is literally unkillable in 1 on 1 for any class I've ever played. If there are multiple healing each other, you're done. Like I said, interrupts suck too much dick in this game to keep them locked out, and the resolve bar does a good job of preventing offensive CC while you burst one down. Even if I spec into reduced CD on interrupt it's an 8 second CD on a 4 second lockout, but unlike wow it only locks out that SPECIFIC spell rather than all heals. So a typical fight against a sorc:
Spend 20 minutes fighting through their bubble
They start to cast innervate, you interrupt it.
They cast Dark Heal, you can't do anything. If someone else interrupts it, they cast Dark Infusion or just go back to innervate.
Repeat.

Basically just stupid.

 

[KoruptData]

I'm a lvl 43 infiltration shadow and im consistently getting 8 medals, 150-250k damage and 10k protection and im staying in shadow tecnique with a measly 16% damage reduction. Im only dieing a few times and always in the top 5. I pick my fights wisely, I run when I need too. Id feel like im cheating if my survivabilty got buffed.

 

[PenguinPoacher]

Is the GAF guild active? I started on Saber of Exar Kun with some friends but they have mostly quit and I wouldn't mind more people to pvp/operations with. I'm thinking I would roll a Sage since I have a 50 Sniper/48 Marauder.

 

[Patryn]

That's because Trooper Act I blows big time, it's like the story is erased and they start again. Crazy decision. Force classes have storylines which are way more epic and go for the full 50 levels.

I wouldn't say Trooper Act I blows. In fact, I far preferred it to JK Act I. The problem is, as I said, that they resolve everything at the end of it.

 

[Azzurri]

So what is the protection medal? What do i need to do?

 

[Sokantish]

So what is the protection medal? What do i need to do?

If you're a tank you can put that dumb protection on people and they take half damage

 

[Tallshortman]

Is the GAF guild active? I started on Saber of Exar Kun with some friends but they have mostly quit and I wouldn't mind more people to pvp/operations with. I'm thinking I would roll a Sage since I have a 50 Sniper/48 Marauder.

Republic side GAF is pretty active I think. We have several HM runs a night and have started doing some ops.

 

[Moaradin]

So many choices in IA story come back later. I've had my ass saved in Act 3 because I helped someone in Act 1.

 

[usea]

notsureifserious.jpg

What exactly are you expecting?

I stated a fact. I didn't imply anything; no expectations, no judgments. It was to inform a guy who was not sure about the state of the game since release.

In WZs, most games you can tell early on if you're going to win or not. If I think it's a winning game, I definitely start doing damage instead of healing so I can get more than 2 medals. The system sucks. Also scoundrel/operative healing in warzones is terrible.

 

[gatti-man]

If you're a tank you can put that dumb protection on people and they take half damage

Yeah imo thats a bullshit medal but i guess arguably so are some dps ones.

 

[Emitan]

Is the GAF guild active? I started on Saber of Exar Kun with some friends but they have mostly quit and I wouldn't mind more people to pvp/operations with. I'm thinking I would roll a Sage since I have a 50 Sniper/48 Marauder.

We usually have at least 15 people on at night.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

So many choices in IA story come back later. I've had my ass saved in Act 3 because I helped someone in Act 1.

Uh-oh - I killed everyone!

 

[Tallshortman]

We usually have at least 15 people on at night.

I'd say probably closer to 20 average during "prime time" (6:00 PM EST and onward)

 

[BattleMonkey]

Yeah imo thats a bullshit medal but i guess arguably so are some dps ones.

Bah, it promotes the tanks to actually do their role and it still requires them to stick close to the players they are guarding. Prefer the medals promote players to do their roles which is more than most DPS often do in game, but of course there is no real way to measure "teamwork" for a pure DPS class so it's just a matter of them killing stuff.

 

[StMeph]

If all I cared about was medals, I'd stop healing after getting the 75k one. Hard to get 300k except on maybe Voidstar.

Have only ever hit 300k heals on Voidstar.

For cheesing medals, it's easier to self-heal with a non-healing class in Huttball by running through the fire. Outside of that I can't imagine too many other instances of cheesing medals, just bad team play.

If I cared about medals I wouldn't play a healing Scoundrel. I can only top off groups or effectively heal one person (1 on 1 or MAYBE 2 on 1) due to energy regeneration. Feels like Sages and Sorcs can heal forever.

I don't know how different Scoundrel is from Operative, but healing worked out pretty well. Not as the sole healer, but it synergized nicely in tandem with another Sorcerer healer. Stack HOTs on everyone, cast heals where needed, and mash Surgical Probe when available.

 

[Dina]

Star Wars McDrive

 

[border]

I got a new PC running Windows 7 (as opposed to my old one, running Vista).

I installed SWTOR and can't make it past the loading screen. The game immediately crashes and Windows pops up a dialog that says "Star Wars The Old Republic Has Stopped Working".

Has anyone here encountered this issue? Any suggestions?

 

[gatti-man]

I'd say probably closer to 20 average during "prime time" (6:00 PM EST and onward)

Empire the same.......except we win at pvp

 

[Klorox33]

I stated a fact. I didn't imply anything; no expectations, no judgments. It was to inform a guy who was not sure about the state of the game since release.

In WZs, most games you can tell early on if you're going to win or not. If I think it's a winning game, I definitely start doing damage instead of healing so I can get more than 2 medals. The system sucks. Also scoundrel/operative healing in warzones is terrible.

I have been playing an operative healer in bgs since I started and have leveled as a medic the whole way. To say it is terrible is inaccurate imo. I have done plenty of warzones and have had top heals and minimal deaths. Class has great mobility and lots of outs for when your focus fired.

Class reminds me of the WoW vanilla resto druid in arathi basin, when you finally realized the druid was the healer and switched there he was in cat form running away...

On the other side of that operative medics have ZERO dps, I had a level 10 tanking my dps in a warzone the other night.

 

[Tallshortman]

Empire the same.......except we win at pvp

I've had some pretty good luck in WZ. Not sure what the server win ratio is but I'd say I win 60% of my matches. I know some pub GAF have had some bad runs in the past. I think CzarTim was raging for a while before the 50s bracket

 

[Oni Link 666]

They really need to fix how you can't move any way except backwards while holding Ctrl.

 

[JWong]

Uh-oh - I killed everyone!

Their zombie version will save you.

 

[Sokantish]

I really wish I could hold alt to self cast. That'd be pretty great. Is there a key for that and I'm just blind or what?

 

[Zafir]

Bah, it promotes the tanks to actually do their role and it still requires them to stick close to the players they are guarding. Prefer the medals promote players to do their roles which is more than most DPS often do in game, but of course there is no real way to measure "teamwork" for a pure DPS class so it's just a matter of them killing stuff.

Definitely this.

I'd be god damn useless in PVP if I couldn't guard or protect people since my damage isn't as good as other classes.

Admittedly the DPS variants of tanking classes have it easier though. Since they don't sacrifice damage and can still guard. You often see them swap to the tanking form(if they need to, I don't think assassins do?) for the medals, and then just focus on damage.

 

[jersoc]

PvP already has a reduction on healing, it's fine. and like another poster says, you get shit commendations for it. If anything that needs to be fixed.

 

[KePoW]

Stupid question, but what do WarZone medals give you anyway? Extra XP or what?

 

[zlatko]

I really wish I could hold alt to self cast. That'd be pretty great. Is there a key for that and I'm just blind or what?

Isn't F1 target yourself?

 

[Anbokr]

The only healer I can't kill 1v1 as a marauder is a bounty hunter/trooper healer. Those guys really drive me nuts, gyrs says I might be able to if I interrupt the long heal (i've just been interrupting whatever I see, and I guess a good healer would bait a meaningless interrupt); so I have to try that. But PVP healing is fine imo, healers have a tremendous impact in all the warzones, especially when they have guard on them. And when I say I can kill any healer aside a BH in 1v1, that USUALLY means I can kill smuggler/sorc healers but it's still very difficult.

 

[Sokantish]

Isn't F1 target yourself?

I don't mean changing your target to yourself. What I meant was in like World of Warcraft you'd have someone targetted and you heal them but if you hold the ALT button down you don't have to target yourself you'd just heal yourself if you press the heal hotkey while holding down ALT

 

[SpudBud]

Stupid question, but what do WarZone medals give you anyway? Extra XP or what?

More valor and commendations.

 

[KePoW]

I don't mean changing your target to yourself. What I meant was in like World of Warcraft you'd have someone targetted and you heal them but if you hold the ALT button down you don't have to target yourself you'd just heal yourself if you press the heal hotkey while holding down ALT

It's the Home key by default in SWTOR. You can see it in Keybindings.

 

[nataku]

I don't mean changing your target to yourself. What I meant was in like World of Warcraft you'd have someone targetted and you heal them but if you hold the ALT button down you don't have to target yourself you'd just heal yourself if you press the heal hotkey while holding down ALT

There is a self cast key. It's default is home, though I haven't actually checked the keybinds to see if you can change it.

They have a focus target, too, but it's bugged.

 

[KePoW]

More valor and commendations.

Ok thanks for the answer.

 

[Tess3ract]

You should be always working on getting as many medals as you can. 10 Medals on a loss gives you more rewards than 6-7 on a win, for example.

 

[frequency]

I never said they should nerf the healing specs. The problem is SOLELY that the CLASS is durable, not the spec. Actually, I take that back, It's a problem with the game in general - any spec of any class is able to double dip their 'hybrid' abilities a bit too easily. All of the healers are capable of more than respectable damage while being healing specced, ditto tanks, and then the dps specced tank and healing classes are too effective at healing and tanking while NOT being those specs. Sorcs/Sages just stand out because the bubbles are so insanely powerful. It's not just 'it should be weaker for dps specs' so much as I genuinely don't think dps sorcs should have access to them at all.

A sorc is literally unkillable in 1 on 1 for any class I've ever played. If there are multiple healing each other, you're done. Like I said, interrupts suck too much dick in this game to keep them locked out, and the resolve bar does a good job of preventing offensive CC while you burst one down. Even if I spec into reduced CD on interrupt it's an 8 second CD on a 4 second lockout, but unlike wow it only locks out that SPECIFIC spell rather than all heals. So a typical fight against a sorc:
Spend 20 minutes fighting through their bubble
They start to cast innervate, you interrupt it.
They cast Dark Heal, you can't do anything. If someone else interrupts it, they cast Dark Infusion or just go back to innervate.
Repeat.

Basically just stupid.

I think we agree on the problem. I think it's just a communication problem on my end.
I think, in a better game, DPS Sorcs/Sages shouldn't be able to heal at all. Like I said previously, I think it's really dumb that the Mage and Priest is the same class in this game.

I don't think we agree on the solution though. Probably because I play a healing Sage, so nerfing the class survivability as a whole nerfs my survivability as a healer. I don't feel like I should suffer because of the DPS guys.
If my survivability and ability to keep others up was nerfed, I would feel very weak. Compared to my Disc Priest, I already feel weak as it is.

But anyway... I apologize for arguing over theoretical nerfs.

 

[Sokantish]

It's the Home key by default in SWTOR. You can see it in Keybindings.

There is a self cast key. It's default is home, though I haven't actually checked the keybinds to see if you can change it.

They have a focus target, too, but it's bugged.

Thanks guys. I'm gonna go change it!

EDIT: uh... apparently you can't change it to Alt, I guess you can't bind ALT to anything.

 

[Blitzzz]

I've had some pretty good luck in WZ. Not sure what the server win ratio is but I'd say I win 60% of my matches. I know some pub GAF have had some bad runs in the past. I think CzarTim was raging for a while before the 50s bracket

ya pub < 50 has been doing quite well....except huttball..... shit always dissolves into pubs attacking first person they see instead of actually trying to figure out who has the ball or moving in a group

god I hate that wz so much

Spoiler

fuck you imba force users

 

[arts&crafts]

Thanks for the invite!

 

[Sokantish]

ya pub < 50 has been doing quite well....except huttball..... shit always dissolves into pubs attacking first person they see instead of actually trying to figure out who has the ball or moving in a group

god I hate that wz so much

Spoiler

fuck you imba force users

Everytime I get into Huttball it makes me regret not being a Vanguard/Consuler/Jedi Knight. They have spells that are so useful in it, and all I get to do is spam grav round and knock people around occasionally

 

[Dega]

Empire the same.......except we win at pvp

We have nearly 20 right now lol.

 

[Blitzzz]

Everytime I get into Huttball it makes me regret not being a Vanguard/Consuler/Jedi Knight. They have spells that are so useful in it, and all I get to do is spam grav round and knock people around occasionally

everytime I see it, I consider leaving...

I spend half my time circling the damn ramps trying to get back to the upper levels after being force shoved off while chasing. I also wish I can chuck a nade down the random vent hole.....raaage

 

[frequency]

The knockbacks are one of the worst aspects of this game for PvP in my opinion.
Knocking people off ledges in Huttball, or to their deaths in Voidstar is cheap and annoying.

It's been a long time since I've played a game where you spend more time out of control of your character than you do in control for PvP.

Sure there are knockback abilities in other games too (nothing like being blown off LM to ruin your day) but it's not nearly as constant as in this game. There are so many force users and the CD is so low, you just expect it to happen every time you stand near a light saber.