-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star Wars: The Old Republic |OT| EA: "Let's blow this thing and go home!"
- Thread starter Emitan
- Start date
I'll have to try this, maybe Ilum will be playable.
Yeah it did not appear any different but I used fraps just to make sure there was an increase
It isn't the engine at all, and is completely Bioware.
1. They are the idiots not to include everything with their Direct X, then lie about it for two months.
2. The Hero Engine is, on a technical level, the most optimized engine you can have for an MMO right now.
Bioware has always had performance issues with their PC titles. Warhammer (Mythic), where many of the developers came from, had performance issues as well.
There is no reason for a game like SWTOR to perform so badly on so many machines. Yet it does and did for the 9 months I played beta, and still does today. Bioware needs to get their shit together.
cpp_is_king
Member
My god. I hope this is just a typo and you meant to say "least".
It isn't the least, at all. The entire reason to license the hero engine is because of how easily it can handle huge amounts of people. How good it's instancing and optimization technology is. That is what sets it apart.
The fact is, Bioware has some of the worst programmers and developers on the planet. CCP helped design many aspects of the Hero engine, and stand behind it. Nobody is better at server and MMO tech then CCP.
cpp_is_king
Member
Reasons don't always turn out to be good in hindsight.
[citation needed]
I don't know how you can make an argument like this when this engine is clearly unproven outside of saying that every other mmo engine isn't licensed out
BattleMonkey
Member
EVE online runs like shit even on modern hardware whenever you have a big battle with a bunch of ships.
I don't see where all these claims of how great the hero engine is when it's an untested engine. Your making a bunch of assumptions
I don't even know why Bioware had to put out this "Note on Performance Issues". If it was meant to slow the amount of negative posts then they've failed. Looks like it's done the opposite really, since now everybody knows they have no idea how to make it better, if they even can.
Nonsense. Besides the fact that there are exactly 0 games demonstrating your claim, it has been consistently repeated by the HeroEngine developers that BioWare licensed it for their production toolset
Eh? HeroEngine was designed by Simutronics in the 90s
Game engines aren't skynet bro.
Alex
Member
Putting my Dark Side, patriot-esque Agent on hold for a bit and working on my Light Side Inquisitor. It is really neat how well it bends to the story with the former slave bit + legacy and good dialogue for it all when it should be just weird and forced.
Game has annoyed me a bit lately but I still really like how personable the leveling can be, (def did put some needed RPG in the MMORPG rather than skipping through mechanic devoid walls of text because you're in a group) and how fun it is in co-op.
Taking that bit even further and correcting some of the goofy issues (overly instanced nonsense, too much walking), some extra polish and going for a non-traditional end game of raiding and... more raiding and they'd have had a really amazing product to me instead of a merely very good one that I will shelf after a brief amount of end game and an alt.
I hope it does well enough to keep development up and some interesting things come of it.
Most MMOs have a few blotches. Even WoW, which is cited for being so performance friendly what with it's age (and Blizzard laze of never updating anything nor adding any new armor meshes after classic
) has moments where sheer populace and particle+smoke effects they tacked on in Cataclysm bring the game to it's knees, I know I was hitting about ~20-25 FPS during Firelands dailies on my server with a 4.2ghz quad core and an overclocked 460 1GB.
SWTOR's problem is the inconsistency is rather... consistent! At least for me as I'm always chopping around from 40-60, etc whether it be an empty field or a big Warzone and it just feels stuttery more often than it should.
I think that is in 1.2
Game has annoyed me a bit lately but I still really like how personable the leveling can be, (def did put some needed RPG in the MMORPG rather than skipping through mechanic devoid walls of text because you're in a group) and how fun it is in co-op.
Taking that bit even further and correcting some of the goofy issues (overly instanced nonsense, too much walking), some extra polish and going for a non-traditional end game of raiding and... more raiding and they'd have had a really amazing product to me instead of a merely very good one that I will shelf after a brief amount of end game and an alt.
I hope it does well enough to keep development up and some interesting things come of it.
Most MMOs have a few blotches. Even WoW, which is cited for being so performance friendly what with it's age (and Blizzard laze of never updating anything nor adding any new armor meshes after classic
) has moments where sheer populace and particle+smoke effects they tacked on in Cataclysm bring the game to it's knees, I know I was hitting about ~20-25 FPS during Firelands dailies on my server with a 4.2ghz quad core and an overclocked 460 1GB.SWTOR's problem is the inconsistency is rather... consistent! At least for me as I'm always chopping around from 40-60, etc whether it be an empty field or a big Warzone and it just feels stuttery more often than it should.
I think that is in 1.2
That is coming in the next big update, there is a video showing it as one of the updates along with the legacy system
cpp_is_king
Member
So i barely turned Lv. 47. I did every single quest in Hoth, every quest in Belsavis, and every quest in Voss. When I got to Hoth I was actually over-levelled. Now I'm barely scraping by and getting my ass handed to me by normal quests. Am I even going to make it to 50 by the time I finish all the quests in Corellia and Ilum at this rate?
This sucks
This sucks
Let me get this straight. You're asserting that a poor framerate on the client is being caused by the server responding to your client slowly? Really? I want to make sure I understand you correctly so that you cannot beckpedal like you always do (thinking about when you said it was impossible for any game written in C# to get 60 fps).
I didn't have that problem at all. I hit 50 at the end of the Hoss bonus, or the beginning of Voss maybe, I forget. I did basically all of Voss and Corellia at level 50. Sucked.So i barely turned Lv. 47. I did every single quest in Hoth, every quest in Belsavis, and every quest in Voss. When I got to Hoth I was actually over-levelled. Now I'm barely scraping by and getting my ass handed to me by normal quests. Am I even going to make it to 50 by the time I finish all the quests in Corellia and Ilum at this rate?
This sucks
You'll be 50 before you step foot on ilum.So i barely turned Lv. 47. I did every single quest in Hoth, every quest in Belsavis, and every quest in Voss. When I got to Hoth I was actually over-levelled. Now I'm barely scraping by and getting my ass handed to me by normal quests. Am I even going to make it to 50 by the time I finish all the quests in Corellia and Ilum at this rate?
This sucks
cpp_is_king
Member
I'm saying that it's possible. I'm also saying that it's possible that the server is sending you information about other players who aren't even in your instance, which would in turn cause your client to slow down. And even then it would still be a server problem because the server could be more intelligent about what data to send.
I never said with 100% certainty that it was a server issue since that's idiotic, just like it's idiotic for you or anyone else to say with 100% certainty that it's not. I did say something like "almost certainly", because hey, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the server of this game has trouble with large numbers of people in the same area.
You think the reason they have so many servers is because the client can't render people too many people at once? Give me a break, I can think of multiple client-side solutions off the top of my head to address the problem if that were it. The server is the aspect of the game that is under load, and it is the aspect of the game where Hero Engine is probably a much larger part of the equation. The client is not under load (and if it is under load during a 15 v 15 battle then that is still the server's fault IMO). Therefore, my default assumption unless presented with significant evidence to the contrary, is that most problems have a high probability of being server related.
I would not even be surprised if the request/response model used by the client/server is synchronous, in which case it's hard not to see how server load could cause a drop in frame rate. I would be sad if it turned out to be a synchronous i/o model, but I would not be surprised.
But whatever, I'm done arguing about it. If you want to find evidence that I'm wrong, then you should go to Ilum and find 2 different people in the same instance with similar hardware setups where one is experiencing significantly lower FPS than the other. That would be evidence that it's not a server issue.
You're shockingly clueless. You really think that the main loop is waiting on data from the server, causing a slowdown? Like, seriously? I don't even know where to start, especially because you're apparently a knowledgeable guy. I have to assume you're trolling. We'll have to agree to not even bother arguing about it.
cpp_is_king
Member
You took one of 3 possible scenarios I outlined, ignoring the fact that there are even more, and turned that into my #1 theory. Amazing.
By the way, you'd be surprised how many shipping games use blocking i/o. I can think of one that that uses fprintf on a fucking file pointer to an open socket. Now you're going to sit here and lecture me on what I do or don't know about game servers? Give me a break.
And for some reason you think that whatever client-side issue could cause 30 characters to render at 15 FPS in one specific section of the world isn't equally silly. Yea, I guess we do have to agree to not bother arguing about it.
krameriffic
Member
Even forgetting the framerate issues with the engine, the combat responsiveness is still bad even after months of beta and their supposed fix in that patch. I still have to press buttons 5+ times to make abilities activate, especially when there's a lot going on. People still get channeling abilities stuck, still get stuck in loops firing their weapons, abilities show the GCD going off when nothing happens. It's just horrible.
am I the only one who basicaly does not have any technical problems in SWTOR? The game runs smooth as butter at FullHD noAA for me, and I only have 4850 512 MB card and stock clocked i5.
granted, I have not yet reached Ilum, but I'm really surprised that people report crappy framerate with monster rigs here.
granted, I have not yet reached Ilum, but I'm really surprised that people report crappy framerate with monster rigs here.
cpp_is_king
Member
Might be a long shot, but are these buttons bound to mouse buttons (like Mouse Button 4, Mouse Wheel, etc)?
If so I discovered a bug where mouse-bound actions will not fire if your mouse is hovering over any of the quickbars. The fix is to move your mouse.
Already reported it via /bug, here's to hoping it gets fixed tonight.
Performance is great on my home PC (Core i7 950 / Radeon HD 5850), but awful just about everywhere on my work computer. But it's not the greatest. Has a ton of RAM and a 16-core Xeon, but only a GeForce GTX 260 or something. Also I'm usually running like 20 programs at once. So no idea if closing them fixes it.Kinan said:
I usually average about 60-85 FPS with everything on high and 4x AA, but, it dips randomly and I can't explain why it fluctuates so much. The discomfort I experience from the FPS drops, doesn't even come close to the discomfort I have for this fucken UI.
DurielBlack
Member
I Can't stand this game. It's the biggest pile of steaming BiowarEA shit I have ever seen. Anyone who plays this game should just shot themselves instead.
I mean, my operative was a one-trick pony (and I don't mean the cute little ponies) before, but now they NERF IT!!! OMGWTF!! Operatives are now PONY SHIT!!!. I can't even kill 2 level 50's of any class anymore in less than 30 seconds. Ugh. What were teh devs thinking? Oh thats right, they were too busy counting their monies for a game that should be F2P!!! Now I have to roll a SORC because that's the ONLY good class.
This game should be like GW2 or WoW! It also shoudl have been delaied until there were NO bugs and they had eveyr feature that every other modern MMO designed in 2004 has plus some new future features.
My framerate is lower than DIRT. Belive me, I know how to program games I have made a few myself and they run on all my friends machines. In fact, my framerates are LOWER than dirt..but not laval because lava would be AWESOME and this games devs don't know how to program a game. I've been an IT proffessional for over 10 eyars! Which is before WoW came out and I could program a better game than this BiowarEA shit back then!
Why does this game not have cross-server group matching Dungeon Finder? I can't even find the entrances to hald the dungeons anyways so I should be able to teleport there with a auto-made group and not spend hours LFG in general chat. Chat is an old tech that has been around since the Al Gore made the internet, you'd think they could have made some improvements by now like a GLOBAL chat channel!
This game is too hard to level but can be too easy to level too at some times. I mean the planets are labeled with level suggestions but I always do bonus series and end up too high level and I know for a FACT some people don't do the bonus series and have a harder time leveling. That's right, that's a FACT and not an opinion! Also I spend lots of times doing other stuff like the on-rails space missions and certainly not instrances because there is no DF.
I think the game was rleased too early because the BiowarEA executives know GW2 and Diablo 3 will come out and be heavy competition. Belive me I know this because I was an executive of my own company too when I made and sold my own games and I know a thing or two about release dates!
If I was running the game design I would have delayed released until AFTER GW2 was released, then taken some of their ideas to make this game EVEN BETTER. I would also have used the time to make space combat better, maybe just take X-WING vs TIE FIGHTER and port it into the game. I could program that in like a months.
I got to 50 in the first month and am tired of waiting for these fixes that should be done NOW. Instead I have to wait for new contents and features to be added. This is 2012 who released games without features and then adds them? I'll tell you who. NOBODY. That's right, NOBODY except for BiowarEA.
I've put suggestion after suggestion onto the BiowarEA forums and they never listen! No feedback to the community! I am tired of being ignored and waiting on them to fix operatives, dungeon finding, framerates, and also crafting!
I am going to unsub and wait for this game to be F2P cause then I might get more money's worth. I heard they already lost like 488,431 subscription fro the free month which I can tell because there are abotu 54.6% LESS people on my fleet hub on my server than there were 3 weeks ago. Now I have to re-roll on a high pop server or wait until they let us move or merge servers.
I mean, my operative was a one-trick pony (and I don't mean the cute little ponies) before, but now they NERF IT!!! OMGWTF!! Operatives are now PONY SHIT!!!. I can't even kill 2 level 50's of any class anymore in less than 30 seconds. Ugh. What were teh devs thinking? Oh thats right, they were too busy counting their monies for a game that should be F2P!!! Now I have to roll a SORC because that's the ONLY good class.
This game should be like GW2 or WoW! It also shoudl have been delaied until there were NO bugs and they had eveyr feature that every other modern MMO designed in 2004 has plus some new future features.
My framerate is lower than DIRT. Belive me, I know how to program games I have made a few myself and they run on all my friends machines. In fact, my framerates are LOWER than dirt..but not laval because lava would be AWESOME and this games devs don't know how to program a game. I've been an IT proffessional for over 10 eyars! Which is before WoW came out and I could program a better game than this BiowarEA shit back then!
Why does this game not have cross-server group matching Dungeon Finder? I can't even find the entrances to hald the dungeons anyways so I should be able to teleport there with a auto-made group and not spend hours LFG in general chat. Chat is an old tech that has been around since the Al Gore made the internet, you'd think they could have made some improvements by now like a GLOBAL chat channel!
This game is too hard to level but can be too easy to level too at some times. I mean the planets are labeled with level suggestions but I always do bonus series and end up too high level and I know for a FACT some people don't do the bonus series and have a harder time leveling. That's right, that's a FACT and not an opinion! Also I spend lots of times doing other stuff like the on-rails space missions and certainly not instrances because there is no DF.
I think the game was rleased too early because the BiowarEA executives know GW2 and Diablo 3 will come out and be heavy competition. Belive me I know this because I was an executive of my own company too when I made and sold my own games and I know a thing or two about release dates!
If I was running the game design I would have delayed released until AFTER GW2 was released, then taken some of their ideas to make this game EVEN BETTER. I would also have used the time to make space combat better, maybe just take X-WING vs TIE FIGHTER and port it into the game. I could program that in like a months.
I got to 50 in the first month and am tired of waiting for these fixes that should be done NOW. Instead I have to wait for new contents and features to be added. This is 2012 who released games without features and then adds them? I'll tell you who. NOBODY. That's right, NOBODY except for BiowarEA.
I've put suggestion after suggestion onto the BiowarEA forums and they never listen! No feedback to the community! I am tired of being ignored and waiting on them to fix operatives, dungeon finding, framerates, and also crafting!
I am going to unsub and wait for this game to be F2P cause then I might get more money's worth. I heard they already lost like 488,431 subscription fro the free month which I can tell because there are abotu 54.6% LESS people on my fleet hub on my server than there were 3 weeks ago. Now I have to re-roll on a high pop server or wait until they let us move or merge servers.
kyo_daikun
Member
It was like reading all 316 pages of this thread in one post, I do now wish to shoot myself.
don't forget bioware add no content or bug fixes, but they take game down every night to fix stuff wtf!!! i mean who does maintanence at 2 AM tuesday wtf???
I have a GTX 550ti and an i7 2600 with 4 gigs of ram run the game just fine at near max settings. As I understand it I have a pretty good rig but not top of the line and have never had any issues with low fps running around fleet with 100+ people or in warzones like others have with far better computers.
DurielBlack
Member
I know! You see what I am saying? WoW has maintance and it came out in 2004! You'd think with 2011-12 tech they could not do maintenanance or at least program it to do it in like 30 minutes instead of all day!
Of course if I was main programmer there would be no need for this maintenance. I think a monkey could do better maintenance coding than these BiowarEA.
1. There are a number of reasons Bioware licensed it. I listed them for THREE YEARS in the original SWTOR thread, with sources before it's last update (and my ban). Since I was the OP of it and kept it updated since 2008 I felt the information was important. Real time collaboration was one of the reason. It's server technology was another. A game company doesn't just license an engine because of ONE thing it can do.
2. HeroEngine was buir by Simutronics, but they also had a helping hand from CCP on certain technology. Some CCP staff also ended up working for Simutronics.
In terms of it being the "Heroengines" fault. It isn't. Engine gets modified and changed. You can't blame the engine for Biowares fault. In fact, the only reason you are doing it is because you are trying to White Knight the company. No other game that has problems gets the engine to be blamed. Let alone an engine like this.
This is from the CCO of Simutronics
http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/
In the article they also talk about the irresponsibility on-behalf of Bioware/EA. How they wanted to license the engine before it was finished. How they were warned not to but didn't care because "we have tons of engineers".
Sorry, this problem is completely on Bioware. Just like all the game breaking bugs are on Bioware. Just like all the broken shit in operations are on Bioware.
I didn't keep the original SWTOR thread going since 2008 because I hated this game or wanted it to fail. I still want this game to do well and continue to grow. Unfortunately, the sheer amounts of problems with it so far are making me hesitant.
Yeah I don't think I've ever really been impressed by the tech side of Bioware. Dragon Age series is just an embarassment.
Wait wait wait wait wait, THIS thread?! I thought that post was a parody of the official forums. If it was a parody of this thread I no longer support the funniness of it and instead spit on his mockery of our posts and feelings!
DurielBlack
Member
Sorry. I am going to PM Blackface and squidyj to see if they want to join me and make an unnoffical patch for the game. They seem like good programmers and know about engines and stuff and I used to make games too. I can be the executive manager of the project. You should spit on the BiowarEA.
same people who type M$
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Didn't play this evening to kind of ween myself off after grinding this past weekend to 40. Felt good man.
I think i wont be resubscribing as soon as i finish my current alt´s story, Republic Sage. I´ve already leveled an Empire Sorcerer to 50 and i just didn´t like what i saw at the end game...
Which amounted to:
1. Run hard mode flashpoint´s ad nausea
2. Do Daily quests in Ilum/Belsavis... more repetition
3. Instanced PVP - Witch i dislike
4... Raiding! God no... more repetition.
Maybe i´m just burned out of the current trend of mmo´s, even tho i havent played WoW in 3 years, as soon as i reached 50 in TOR it was like playing the same game.
SW: TOR in the end amounted to me as little more than a single player rpg, a very expensive one at that. And with the upcoming rpg releases of 2012, i feel that i will better server playing them instead of TOR.
Which amounted to:
1. Run hard mode flashpoint´s ad nausea
2. Do Daily quests in Ilum/Belsavis... more repetition
3. Instanced PVP - Witch i dislike
4... Raiding! God no... more repetition.
Maybe i´m just burned out of the current trend of mmo´s, even tho i havent played WoW in 3 years, as soon as i reached 50 in TOR it was like playing the same game.
SW: TOR in the end amounted to me as little more than a single player rpg, a very expensive one at that. And with the upcoming rpg releases of 2012, i feel that i will better server playing them instead of TOR.
Jezbollah
Member
Through a mix of playing other games and not being bothered, I havent logged into SWTOR for over a week. I am also thinking about unsubbing.
Does anyone know the details about unsubscriber character retention? Do they keep them deactivated and in statis ala WOW? Or would your char(s) get removed after a short period of time (which, being EA/Bioware wouldnt surprise me)?
Cheers for any answers..
Does anyone know the details about unsubscriber character retention? Do they keep them deactivated and in statis ala WOW? Or would your char(s) get removed after a short period of time (which, being EA/Bioware wouldnt surprise me)?
Cheers for any answers..
Angelus Errare
Banned
Did you seriously use "witch" for "which" =P
NemesisPrime
Banned
What do you expect to do end game in an MMO exactly then?
I am a bit confused now.
Continue questing forever?
Doing /dance in fleet?
BTW do you have all the Datacrons yet? Done all the bonus series?
BattleMonkey
Member
Runs great for me outside of hitches in Fleet. Performance issues with the game seem to be about inconsistency as people. People with similar hardware getting wildly different results.
razgriz417
Member
Server is up now, btw do we have any idea what the patch added?