BattleMonkey
Member
Well just saw this, but analyst expecting the game to do at least 3 million by end of year? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...blic-release-ea_n_1160792.html?ref=technology
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Star Wars: The Old Republic |OT| EA: "Let's blow this thing and go home!"
- Thread starter Emitan
- Start date
Well just saw this, but analyst expecting the game to do at least 3 million by end of year? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...blic-release-ea_n_1160792.html?ref=technology
Interfectum
Member
There's a shitload of people running around in the world to communicate with, trade with, etc. There are PvP battlegrounds. There are group quests. There are huge flash point instances. I don't get how this is any less an MMO than WoW.
Lol this is gonna be fun when flashpoints actually require thought to go through (AKA not the first one).
Tanking in SWTOR is no joke and is MUCH more involved than in WoW.
Just to give you a little idea - in WoW, threat building is at 500% now. Meaning that every point of damage you do is equal to 5 times the threat (and that's not even counting the high-threat abilities).
In TOR, the threat modifier is set to 150% while in tanking stances. Classes like Guardians have only 2 AOE abilities (one of which is on a 12 second cooldown), absolutely NO snap threat (there's ONE whole ability that does "increased threat", which puts its threshold at 200%, but even then it's low damage), a sunder that is not spammable AND which doesn't do increased threat, no dots to keep up threat on multiple targets, etc. Seriously, I'll have to read up on the other classes, but you can't play this as you can in WoW where tanking is an afterthought (the only places where tanking ability matters in WoW is in heroics - non-heroics has trivial tanking). DPS needs to watch out what they're attacking, because getting threat back on a mob that DPS has gotten aggro on requires (from theorycrafting anyway) a full 4-6 GCDs if the absurdly long CD Taunt is down. And if you're doing that, then guess what? Your primary target has a pretty big chance of losing aggro to you.
FunI actually love that style of tanking (it's basically vanilla and TBC WoW tanking, where you couldn't just drop in, spam your AOEs and bam, you have instant perfect AOE tanking where NOTHING will ever get off you).
Add to that the fact that Guardians (this is what I play, so it's the class I know the most about) has a very high amount of abilities to actively use in combat (3 focus generators, about 5 to 6 focus dumpers, 3 defensive cooldowns, 2 taunts, Riposte, etc) which makes hotbars a total mess and requiring extensive use of hotkeys and combinations (I already map all of my stuff to 1 to 4 and alt-1 to 4 and I'm full at like 14!) is insane. I really, REALLY wish I could do macros in this game, because I could easily fix this and get everything easily manageable into much less buttons.... For example, I have 2 main focus builders - Sundering Strike and Strike. Sundering Strike is on a 6 second cooldown, while Strike has no cooldown. I need to be spamming the living hell out of those 2 abilities to generate Focus (at 14, I get a tanking stance that generates one focus point every 6 seconds that can be talented in the late 30s to 3 seconds) but right now they have to be on two separate buttons, which takes up a ton of bar space... If I could macro to have Sundering Strike when it's up and Strike when the Sunder is down, it would save me a LOT of bar space.
I can second this that a lot of the way combat works is like vanilla WoW/TBC. I stopped healing in WoW a while ago. I'm now in love with healing in Star Wars (Sage Seer) Its really strategic, the limited Force pool (mana) limited regen of the force really makes you have to strategically plan your heals. You cannot spam heal in this game or you will be done 20 seconds into a fight.
I love strategic healing where every move you make has a consequence. Do I let this person die to keep the tank up, do I try to save myself, Do I have time to CC an enemy to help alleviate some of the damage being thrown around. Really really satisfying for me especially now that the heroic dungeon level has ramped up in the 20's and I can't blow through them anymore or have time to even dps anymore.
BattleMonkey
Member
It was Lucasarts that wanted a MMO, not EA. They approached EA/Bioware about making a Star Wars MMO and they went with it. Same reason why there was no KOTOR 3, EA/Bioware have no say in the creation of the game, it's up to Lucasarts/film to ok it. Bioware just took the opportunity to continue the KOTOR line through the Star Wars MMO.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
To be fair, I don't consider WoW to be much of an MMORPG anymore. Blizzard have done just about everything in their power to eliminate meaningful player interaction as much as possible.
I am interested in the group quests of SWTOR. Those should be fun to play through with the right people.
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
WarMacheen
Member
Gotdamn son, I've never read that and it's quite interesting. I will be re-watching the movies this weekend with a new perspective.
Also I'm dark side empire
tycoonheart
Member
So what games do you consider MMORPGs?
The little cheap round circular character shadows.
Interfectum
Member
The Flashpoints are awesome. It's funny seeing who's dialogue option wins the "roll" and to see how the whole thing plays out. Added bonus is it's a good way to show off your character. Half the fun in MMOs is getting cool armor and showing it off. Problem is no one looks at each other. People are running around doing their own thing. But, during a flashpoint if your character wins the dialogue option he/she is front and center for everyone to see. A small but cool bonus IMO.
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
Not enough people dancing atop mailboxes.
Alex
Member
Player count in main world dwindling! Solution to fix this problem? Remove every single group and elite quest, turn leveling game into Little Big Planet 0.5 instead.
Seriously, it's like modern WoW goes out of it's way to kick you in the dick for having the gall to want to level with friends during the leveling process. One of my biggest complaints. SWTOR doesn't go far enough, either, to be fair, but at least the game bites back at times and theres some really great elite quests. I want to see more options, more scaling more tension added to group scenarios. That's what I'm hoping Guild Wars 2 isn't just blowing hot air about.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
There aren't many left, and few of them are 'modern'. Ultima Online, EverQuest, Dark Age of Camelot, Final Fantasy XI, Vanguard, EverQuest 2 (although to a lesser extent), EVE, ArcheAge, etc. Pretty much any game that isn't instanced to hell and back and provides lots of opportunities for meaningful player interaction, and even encourages it.
Interfectum
Member
Since the introduction of Dungeon/Raid finder it's possible to login, do a dungeon, get the loot and go back to stormwind without every talking to a single soul. I've had more conversations in Dark Souls (notes) than WoW at this point.
Keep playing TOR. It does encourage player interaction. After finishing a flashpoint it even flashes a huge "add as friend" button for each person you played with in the game to encourage community growth.
tycoonheart
Member
Well, people complained and complained about not having a matchmaking system for dungeons. DPS complained about it being difficult as hell to find a group. All dungeon finder does is replace "LFG <insert instance name>" spams.
It's great for everyone. My friend and I love to coop things but always have trouble finding the right level of challenge; most of the heroic 4 world areas are perfectly difficult for two good players to handle. We roll no heals though so it might get a bit easier if Malavi Quinn is at all competent.
Skellig Gra
Member
Most of those games are unbearable to play. Just the thought of non-instanced dungeons makes me want to puke. Obviously my opinion but I don't see how anyone could consider camping a mob for like a week to be any sort of fun.
Interfectum
Member
But it also took away accountability (since it's cross server) and the need for any communication whatsoever.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Personally, I love setting up camp and grinding exp with people in a non-instanced dungeon. The existence of other players outside of your group can really make things dynamic, for better and worse.
I also love hand-crafted instanced dungeons with stories. However, I only love them for the first couple of times. I vastly prefer grinding mobs in a non-instanced dungeon than queuing up for a linear-instanced dungeon with faceless group members that may as well be bots and running it over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Anyway, this is getting into MMORPG-theory territory. I'm not trying to shit on TOR in any way, and am excited about playing through the story lines of a few different classes.
eh, the voice acting does change things... I know others have said this also, but to say my point of view...
not every side quest in the game is gold... some are annoying, some are VERY thinly veiled "go kill x of y". But.. BUT, some are actually pretty slick and really fun. And the thing is, you get the choice of either experiencing these really fun ones, or just hitting spacebar and choosing your most appropriate response.
for me, the story missions and the fun side missions really change the genre for the better. it changes the genre that I really didn't think much more could really be changed that mattered..
the best way to describe it IMHO is an MMORPG in single player RPG's clothing. Maybe this is a little deceptive or derogatory... but honestly, it is a sort of different experience. and because the game IS offering that different experience that no one else is, it's really in a great position to capture it's share of the market.. slap the star wars brand on it and that further fortifies it... but honestly even without the star wars license this game would be something special in the MMORPG landscape. although I guess without that star wars license bioware probably never would have had $150M greenlit for the project over the years
tycoonheart
Member
Also a lot of opportunity for griefing in non-instanced dungeons.
I think devs want to avoid that more than anything.
In addition to the tradional Flashpoint dungeons, About 1/4 of each planet is designed for 2+ players. Instead of being instanced, they are built into the world as seamless open areas, caves, and buildings. The only instancing that occurs happen in small rooms that only contain story progression or boss fights. It's easy to group up by talking to people hanging around the entrance or following a trail of dead bodies to find a group already inside.
Oh wow okay. I assumed otherwise because the person I was playing with yesterday was always asking me if I wanted to go light or dark because of the points, so I assumed that I would get his side all the time.
Phew then
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
And I think that's sad. I mean, I can see the reason from a publisher's perspective. They want to minimize the chances that a player's experience might be affected negatively. They also want to save money from a customer service perspective by not having to deal with complaints or having to keep GMs on staff.
The problem with that, though, in my opinion, is that it really kills the soul of the game. In order to ensure that everyone is always having a good time, the developers have to remove freedom from the players' hands. Sure it may take away some of the lows, but it also takes away the highs and really just makes a flat experience for everyone.
Restricting things to make sure that everyone 'plays nice' (by removing any ability for them to play any other way) ensures that nothing interesting ever happens community-wise.
That sounds cool. So there are open areas with stronger mobs that you can group up and camp or something?
Oh wow okay. I assumed otherwise because the person I was playing with yesterday was always asking me if I wanted to go light or dark because of the points, so I assumed that I would get his side all the time.
Phew then
however, if there is a branch in the flashpoint, there roll wins out.. I don't think there's someplace where you can get screwed out of loot or even experience, but a light side dark side choice can change the story and effects. but again it's random, and I don't really think someone making a choice can "ruin" the dungeon. If anything, probably would be more fun to see the "bad" path on the dungeon while you yourself not actually being penalized for it.
you can't make a game hardcore grindy if you want to sell to millions of casual players
EA wants a successful ($$$) MMO so it is what it is
Yep. Some of them are as hard as the Flashpoints. I tried soloing a lvl 17 Heroic 4+ area at 23, and had my ass handed to me.
All throughout TBC (and even vanilla) there was no accountability whatsoever. Nobody cared - all it did was "avoid this player" but even then you had to manually build a list of people to avoid. I did dungeons a HELL of a lot during TBC I even then outside of guildies I never partied with the same people much.
Whining about the lack of player interaction is ridiculous. I would much rather have a game where if *I* want to party, I will, than playing a game where I'm forced to party (I'm looking at your, FFXI) to kill a single rabbit.
That's the thing, though - it doesn't kill anything. It's all about player choice. Instanced dungeons are there for a very good reason - it's *never* fun to have to waste time waiting for a mob to respawn just so you can kill it. It's frustrating as can be, and it's the reason I'm avoiding the game a little bit now during peak hours. I have quests I want to do, and I can't do them because there are more people around who are not interested in grouping up (because you get less XP when you're in a group) and it makes grabbing mobs or items I have to pick up (the respawn on items is HORRIBLE, like 5 minutes or more, which is ridiculous when there's 10 people in a single area where there's 6 items you can grab. You have to camp them, which is *not* fun.)
If *you* want, group up. If *you* want, do what *you* want to do. Nobody's taking stuff away from you. Nobody is forcing ANYONE to use the dungeon finder in WoW. Nobody is forcing people to stay in Stormwind. If people do, it's because it's what *they* want to do. If you don't want to, then don't. If you're pissed that you're moving around a dead world, it would still be dead if there wasn't a dungeon finder - instead, you'd have people at instance entrances all the time. It's the EXACT same thing.
I play on a PvE server because I don't like to get ganked while leveling. I find it highly irritating. All it does is hinder my experience, so I play on a PvE server. Having to fight for resources in a non-competitive game is not that enticing.
Interfectum
Member
I ventured into a 3 or 4+ area last night (the name of the area turns purple I think) and I was getting my ass kicked. Some nearby adventures invited me into their group and we tore the place up. Haven't had an experience like that since Vanilla WoW.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I know, I've heard this argument ever since WoW became successful.
There's no evidence for it, however, as no one has ever created a polished and technically sound MMORPG that doesn't follow the WoW model.
Also, open-world and sandbox doesn't necessarily need to turn into a super-hardcore grindfest. There are so many possibilities that haven't been explored in the MMORPG genre.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That sounds pretty awesome. I look forward to reaching one of those areas and getting a group together.
Interfectum
Member
I don't think anyone should be forced into a party. The entire game can be "completed" solo. I'm just saying dungeon finder has devolved WoW into a very anti-social game (unless you are in a guild and even then...). Like someone else said the other players might as well be bots at this point. There is no reason to talk to them because chances are you'll never see them again. At least when you are on the same server there is a way to befriend them, talk to them and perhaps do more dungeons together later on.
RoninChaos
Member
and it defaults to those when shadows are on low, right?
This will be an issue as long as our world revolves around money haha
Publishers see WoW and want a piece of the pie. If a dev strays too far off line, funding is cut.
Innovative, out of the box single player indie games are prolific because there is no on going expense once the game is done. Unfortunately, MMOs are a money sink if you don't have subscribers
edit: solution is to become rich and fund your own dev team
It was always anti-social imo. I've had people talk to me in dungeons in WoW. I've had people not talk to me in TOR. It's always different and it depends on who you're playing with. And if your guild is not social enough, then you should change guilds! That's all there is to it at this point. (Understandably, WoW made guild switching a negative now, which is ridiculous) but it was never this "social" game people claim it to be.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
This will be an issue as long as our world revolves around money haha
Publishers see WoW and want a piece of the pie. If a dev strays too far off line, funding is cut.
Innovative, out of the box single player indie games are prolific because there is no on going expense once the game is done. Unfortunately, MMOs are a money sink if you don't have subscribers
edit: solution is to become rich and fund your own dev team
Which is why I have a glimmer of hope for Curt Schilling's game!
reggieandTFE
Member
It's from The Weekly Standard, you're better off forgetting that you ever read it.
edit: That article is actually disgusting. Tell the thousands of Chileans whose family members were brutally murdered by his death squads that Pinochet was a "benign" dictator.
SUPARSTARX
Member
How's the game look on highest settings?
Yeah, I accidentally chose a dark side option and I pretty much just want to restart my character. Horrible horrible feeling
ESC is your friend.
It will reset the conversation. I do it all the time to make sure I get the one I want.
You can also turn on visual indicators for light/dark choices that are always there, not just on mouseover.
There were a few dialogue moments where it didn't show up. A tad buggy with that option.
So much for the claim people keep posting in this thread that the open world instancing isn't related to server load.
bloodforge
Member
No.
who should I msg to add me to the Guild? I'm in Keller's Republic
Me, Sona is the name in the game.
Edit: Whoops, I'm empire. Sorry,
Republic Scum!
This game reminds me exactly why I quit WoW. Groups are as thick as pig shit.
"Tank the boss next to the wall and kill the adds please."
Two attempts later: there are always two adds are left up and the tank can't move back to the same spot twice. I leave in frustration. Fuck this, I'm going to respec from healer and solo to 50! This isn't the first time it happened either.
"Tank the boss next to the wall and kill the adds please."
Two attempts later: there are always two adds are left up and the tank can't move back to the same spot twice. I leave in frustration. Fuck this, I'm going to respec from healer and solo to 50! This isn't the first time it happened either.
This is any MMO really that requires any sort group coordination. PUGs can sometimes be stupid as shit and don't like be told what to do, even if what to do is correct.